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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Gazzy Mendelions
Phoenix Co.
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 21:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
Idiots, idiots everywhere...... |
Rykker Bow
82
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Posted - 2013.08.02 21:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
maybe their goal is not profits but tears? |
Wafflehead
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.08.02 21:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
Agreed. |
okoolos rimmer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2013.08.02 21:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
and they're winning THAT battle lol |
Rykker Bow
82
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Posted - 2013.08.02 21:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've used that tactic in the past in different situations.
When the situation warrants that I need to get rid of stock quickly. Griefing other traders that leave themselves vulnerable by putting up large volume orders, ie. rocking my price back and forth on a small order and getting the other trader to follow. During certain times of the day when I know a big competitor of mine is active. If I know I will not be able to update for a while, setting the price in the average cycle price range will usually guarantee a sale by the time I get back.
Update your tactics to handle the situation. Lead him downward, buy and relist? |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
233
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Posted - 2013.08.02 22:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have hundreds of orders. Every morning I get an email that tells me which items I need to modify (usually half a dozen or so) so I log in and set the price to whatever my predefined profit value for that particular item is.
I rarely pay attention to what you are doing. Time is more valuable than ISK.
If it annoys you, please leave that item to me. I'll take care of it while you're gone. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1081
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Posted - 2013.08.02 23:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
What items are you trading and at what station? See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Trifectas Syndicate
2
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Posted - 2013.08.03 00:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
I WILL destroy the profits on the market if it means I can drive other traders out. I will run buy orders up so high that your wallet will be stretched to the brink and drive sell orders so low that you'll be mortified at the prospect of ever getting involved with that item in that region again.
I will do this again & again & again & again & again until I have trampled my competitors into the dirt. If you're going to compete with me you'd better have stamina and determination and if you're going to use a bot you had damned well better know how to USE it because I WILL find the holes.
Taking losses in the short term is a long term investment. |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
486
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Posted - 2013.08.03 01:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
It works if you want to dump stock from a longer term trade and take profit asap.
It also work to **** off other competitors and clear the market, as we can all clearly see. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
6
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Posted - 2013.08.03 01:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
A successful strategy is to put pressure on an oversupplied item to drive volatility. The traders who are squeezing you probably are better capitalised than you are (since you only make 2bil a month) and can well afford to push you out. For the last two days I've had a monopoly on a very profitable item which was 2/3 of my total profit yesterday and 1/2 of the day before. It's not a high volume item but because the strategy works over and again over the past year it's been my most profitable. Hard to argue with what works. |
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enterprisePSI
212
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Posted - 2013.08.03 10:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
I believe a picture is worth a thousand words. The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi-¬
I made tweet, Y U NO FOLLOW!!! |
Porkita
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
19
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Posted - 2013.08.03 11:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's called Market PVP ... oh! Didn't you knew it existed? :)
There is no need to move stuff, because now you can push it! |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
353
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Posted - 2013.08.03 12:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
Well, here is my advice... its not compulsory to follow the order down you know?
You could...oh, I dunno, buy it out? |
Careby
Careby Exploration
2
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Posted - 2013.08.03 18:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Well, here is my advice... its not compulsory to follow the order down you know?
You could...oh, I dunno, buy it out?
I like that advice.
If there is room to "strong arm" it means that margins are large, which means the market is not operating efficiently. I like big margins as much as the next guy, but if your trading strategy depends on them, you will always be vulnerable to market PVP.
But let's say OP's point is valid. What AM I supposed to do if I want to trade an item? Get in the .01 queue and be happy with being king of the hill for 20 seconds? Not the way I like to spend my evenings.
I am not experienced enough to be handing out trading advice, but I would point out that not every order in the system is placed by a station trader. Sometimes a player needs an item and doesn't like the price, or needs to unload an item and doesn't like the offer. They may see the large spread and put in an order midway between bid and ask. Perfectly reasonable, in my opinion. What is not reasonable is the reaction by the "professional" station traders who then try to compete with the order rather than giving the guy a quick fill and sending him on his way. When a qty 100 order moves 5-10% because of a single qty 1 order, somebody didn't do their math homework.
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Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
204
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Posted - 2013.08.03 19:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Op i guess ther's a reason why you only make 2bn/month. |
Grandma Squirel
45
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Posted - 2013.08.03 19:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Someone keeps undercutting my orders by 0.01isk... luckily I produce the stuff at half the current price in Jita... I suspect the undercutters are the ones whose buy orders I recently sold to. Enjoy 2mil undercuts till we get below the price you got it from buy orders at. |
Serene Python
28
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Posted - 2013.08.04 00:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
I do this all the time. Sure we an 0.01 isk eachother for hours on end, but you are going to be less inclined to undercut me when I'm now undercutting you by noticeable amounts. I lose a little bit of profit but if it pushes at least one trader out I won that battle. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
6
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Posted - 2013.08.04 01:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Careby wrote:When a qty 100 order moves 5-10% because of a single qty 1 order, somebody didn't do their math homework.
I fell for this logical fallacy for a while until I figured out the 23/7 traders were posting onesy-twosies to pose as 'innocent' trades, which would immediately get relisted as sold. Over time I've found the stack size matters far less than the fundamental metrics of the item, and even if a truly innocent item gets posted, it doesn't change my overriding strategy of squeezing items in measured amounts until the active competition blinks, after which I'm in position with my backup stacks to profit from the rebound.
There are many games within games, and it's even likely I'm playing into someone's game that I can't see because I'm content with my financial performance. I've always been a big fan of spy vs. spy, and game theory scenarios where you lose if you win, and you win if you lose. Delicious fun overall.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1778
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Posted - 2013.08.04 16:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgbilzDkVB1qf8yek.gif http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgbj8uInMX1qf8yek.gif http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgbjamtiVV1qf8yek.gif
SJ Astralana wrote:I fell for this logical fallacy for a while until I figured out the 23/7 traders were posting onesy-twosies to pose as 'innocent' trades, which would immediately get relisted as sold. Over time I've found the stack size matters far less than the fundamental metrics of the item, and even if a truly innocent item gets posted, it doesn't change my overriding strategy of squeezing items in measured amounts until the active competition blinks, after which I'm in position with my backup stacks to profit from the rebound. I basically used to do this (I no longer really trade much these days) - do the research, try to predict market trend, then set an order and just forget about it. In time, it will process just fine at whatever price *I* wanted. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T Build your own EVE PC http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1559734 |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4243
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 16:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
Hello,
in a PvP game, do you understand that you have just written your own killmail for those other traders to enjoy and laugh at you off?
Also, I hope you are not around when I sell my stock. It happens few times a year, but when it happens you are going to gnash your teeth for a month. I can't care the less if I just brought your stock down by 20% for 1 month, I bought it 4 months before when it costed 1200 and now it's worth 2000 => sell => profit => ethernal, harsh law of the markets. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
778
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 00:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
.... giggles, adjusts a few market orders, and goes for another long, relaxing swim in the pool full of OTHER PEOPLE'S ISK...
Oh, and "boo hoo".
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
41
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 01:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
I hope it was me. The nerd rage puts a tingle in my toes. |
shortattenionsp
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 01:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sometimes undercutting someone heavily is the right thing to do, especially if prices are too high/low and the market for an item is stagnating.
I do think there are a lot of noob traders that do this thinking they're somehow going to bankrupt the other traders by undercutting them though. I normally have 50-100 different items i'm trading in with stock/money evenly split across them and a max of roughly 1/5th of a days stock for the whole market for that item. )
If someone completely and totally crashes the market for one of those items it's not going to hurt me at all. Even several items. It's probably barely possible for someone to cost me even 1% of my capital - certainly not enough for me to ever be damaged so I can't invest in other things.
The thing that annoys me is someone who undercuts but leaves the margin still very profitable - your rival traders are not suddenly going to go bankrupt or leave a market if the margin has gone from 35% to 25%. Everybody likes 25% still. They're going to follow your price down and you've just cost yourself and everyone else 10% and you're no more likely to buy/sell anything. If you want to push people out, put the margin below 7-8% and some people will probably drop out that market.
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Rain6637
The Kissaki Syndicate
1636
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Posted - 2013.08.05 04:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
so these are the market tears i hear about
came in expecting a family guy joke, this is much better Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Mara Villoso
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2013.08.05 05:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
An oldie but goodie. The classic, you undercutting idiots are killing profit for everyone, if only we could share the market threads. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
214
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Posted - 2013.08.05 05:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
What amuses me about this is your lack of insight regarding other actors and their desire to be on the front of the market. The more you try station trade dominate the front of a market, the more likely other actors are to disrupt the market because you aren't letting them shift stock. Particularly with hulls i found letting other people have the front of the market for a while did more than anything else to regulate market prices favourably for builders.
Also, station traders often have the worst cost price for inventory, so those are the ones that will get most angry when you fully close *their* spread, but only half close *your* spread. You may need to cast your net wider.
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arabella blood
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2013.08.05 05:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Killing it for you? Who cares for you? I want my isk fast, and if i get to make tears on the way im even more happy. The best tears are when i undercut and still see you are in your 5 minutes, with huge order, it brings me joy :) |
Rain6637
The Kissaki Syndicate
1636
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 06:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
there's better ways to spend LP, but nesting buy orders and sell orders against each other, with 0% margin between them is by far the most satisfying. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Logical Chaos
Viziam Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
I will continue on your thought "YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.".
TO DRIVE THEM OUT, MATE. If this happens constantly it will make ppl mad or stop 0.01 isking said item for some time because they know it's not worth it while prices are down.
I am currently selling a self-produced item that is required in big volumes every day. The TRADING profit is not so big, my production profit is much bigger. If some skunk-ass-trader that bought some for the current buy order price (which is already 90% of my profit made) I happily ruin his day by adjusting the price downwards in huge chunks even if it finally means that I am filling buy orders. I have a short timeframe before my next batch is ready to sell and that is the point when I start selling more aggressively. |
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
92
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 14:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.
I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand, The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.
Here's my message to you:
STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
Yes they aren't real traders in my eyes, it baffles me why they think a 0.01 isker cares for their stupidly random 134994 isk increase when all I got to do is go and change one number to really **** on their cornflakes 174994 how you like my 40k increase *****...
I update my orders through which ever means is fastest, first being mouse scroll wheel by 0.01 isk and second if someone is a being a bellend I change one number randomly sometimes 10k sometimes 50k but it takes the same amount of time. |
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