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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 21/12/2005 12:58:18
(Apparently the topic didnt like the word sexy :P)
(Why do my topic lines keep vanishing?)
 Originally by: Tuxford
This is my favorite thread in the whole world, I almost don't feel like telling you guys that the special damage types ammo (explosive crystals, em hybrids) will be put on hold until we think of something equally sexy for projectiles.
Thinking of something as sexy for Minmatar is definitely not the easiest job in the world. I think we could do with some good input for the devs on this. Please bear in mind:
- Ammo that does 'something else' such as cap damage, etc, is not a realistic thing to ask for, in terms of existing ammo and in terms of the way the game works. The ammo needs to do damage.
- Possibly try to use existing bonuses/negatives on T2 ammos to work from
- Dont be too outlandish with the ideas
Best idea I've seen so far, from another thread:
Ammo with damage of all 4 types
Edited in: T2 ammo should NOT be a fix for bad balancing. It should be something unique, a new option for players who can use T2 guns. Balancing via something that not everyone can use is not balancing at all.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:41:00 -
[2]
Well Ammar only problem ever was low dmg on armour: solved by tech II armour (overpowered in my book)
Gallente minor issue was shield tanking (on tech I unhardened shields - on tech II or hardened therm - kin is as good as anything else btw): minor issue solved by tech II ammo = balanced
Caldari: since cold war too sensitive to small ships: tech II ammo fixed this. This was major issue but was the result of an overnerf so this fix = balanced
Minmatar: always nugging about dps: tech II ammo should give them +2% dps and 2% better r.o.f. costing them actual cap use (say double or triple) = balanced
I believe this is easy to implement and obvious solutions. Certainly therewill be matari posting here who will want + 25% dmg (make all tempys uber machariels) and those saying matari are allready overpowered and need nothing etc. but hey you cant keep everybody happy all of the time 
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:51:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Uther Doull on 21/12/2005 12:52:42
Originally by: Crellion
Minmatar: always nugging about dps: tech II ammo should give them +2% dps and 2% better r.o.f. costing them actual cap use (say double or triple) = balanced
the extra dmg and rof for extra cap would work on arties, but seeing how some ac's can allready get your cap down to 75% with normal ammo i'd say increasing it would gimp tanks on minnie ships even more...
so for AC something else will have to be found, perhaps decreasing rof but increasing dmg so that it would come out just a bit over standard dps (main problem with ac's is the insane ammounts of ammo they use)
seeing that all t2 ammo have some (minor) penalty there would have to be one for this ac ammo to0 but i can't tink of something sensible atm
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velocoraptor
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Posted - 2005.12.21 12:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Crellion
Well Ammar only problem ever was low dmg on armour: solved by tech II armour (overpowered in my book)
Gallente minor issue was shield tanking (on tech I unhardened shields - on tech II or hardened therm - kin is as good as anything else btw): minor issue solved by tech II ammo = balanced
Caldari: since cold war too sensitive to small ships: tech II ammo fixed this. This was major issue but was the result of an overnerf so this fix = balanced
Minmatar: always nugging about dps: tech II ammo should give them +2% dps and 2% better r.o.f. costing them actual cap use (say double or triple) = balanced
I believe this is easy to implement and obvious solutions. Certainly therewill be matari posting here who will want + 25% dmg (make all tempys uber machariels) and those saying matari are allready overpowered and need nothing etc. but hey you cant keep everybody happy all of the time
C'mon m8. Nobody actually reads those ramblings of yours 
Seriously, though, I agree. Nerf Ammars, buff me (that's velocOraptor, with a mispelled "O", dear devs). ty.
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Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2005.12.21 13:08:00 -
[5]
What would be really sexy for T2 projectile ammo is having it's size cut in half, allowing you to fit twice as much in and reducing the time between reload cycles.
--
Mini Skill Planner |
Fexis
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:00:00 -
[6]
How about ammo with enhanced tracking? Isn't this the supposed weak point of minimatar turrets?
Ammo that has its damage split over all 4 damage types would just be inferior in most situations. There will always be one or more damage types best suited to exploit a hole in someones tank, spreading the damage over all 4 is just vanillacide, just like loading launcher tubes with all 4 missile types.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:09:00 -
[7]
Trouble is, its got to equally as sexy as Explosive crystals, and coupled with the no reload / short change time of lasers, it makes them extrememly sexy items.
And adding tracking and dps increases is balancing the minmatar turrets, not having equally sexy ammo.
I mean, it'd have to be damn cool to be the equal of explosive crystals, because of the inherent issues with minmatar turrets, and that would cause everyone to shoot it down in flames.
Im stumped.
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- Just a simple Ultimate Undeniable Underdog.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 21/12/2005 15:18:36
Increased damage and no reload, one damage type?
Ammo that gives a webifier effect on the enemy ship? Each hit slows the ship down for a duration?
Still, its not cool enough..
Still thinking.
EDIT: Thinking about it, Explosive filled a massive hole in the lasers offence. They will now be able to do 3 damage types, harder quicker and better than missiles or minmatars. So what could balance that equation out?
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- Just a simple Ultimate Undeniable Underdog.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fexis
How about ammo with enhanced tracking? Isn't this the supposed weak point of minimatar turrets?
Ammo that has its damage split over all 4 damage types would just be inferior in most situations. There will always be one or more damage types best suited to exploit a hole in someones tank, spreading the damage over all 4 is just vanillacide, just like loading launcher tubes with all 4 missile types.
"Edited in: T2 ammo should NOT be a fix for bad balancing. It should be something unique, a new option for players who can use T2 guns. Balancing via something that not everyone can use is not balancing at all."
Khaldorn just said that, too.
It really is hard to keep up with Explosive crystal sexiness.
Maybe another way round would be better - not give amarr explosive, not give gallente EMP, and simply give new 'sexy' crystals with other effects than new damage types (cap altering, speed altering, shield boost altering, blah blah blah), thus preserving our damage type advantage?
Im sure between the amount of people here, we can come up with something more interesting than that approach, though.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
EDIT: Thinking about it, Explosive filled a massive hole in the lasers offence. They will now be able to do 3 damage types, harder quicker and better than missiles or minmatars. So what could balance that equation out?
Thats the problem. Explosive damage is a MASSIVE boost to Amarr. On this subject, Gallente getting EMP really isnt a massive boost, either. So If we come up with something equally sexy for Minmatar, Gallente would really need something better than EMP damage, too.
Im really starting to think expanding outside of each races' current limitied damage types may be impossible to balance.
But like I say...Im sure between this forum's member we can sort it out :)
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Athanaric
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Athanaric on 21/12/2005 15:29:30
Arty Ammo:
+ROF
+Tracking
Penalty: Use more Cap
AC Ammo:
+Falloff (Like a ridiculous amount)
+Damage
Penalty: Limited to one damage type per ammo
The thinking on the arty ammo is that arties are used more for burst damage than for DOT. +Track and +ROF makes it more bursty, while the cap usage encourages the idea of quickly killing your enemy. Kind of works from an rp standpoint too I think.
Thinking on AC ammo is that AC's are more for DOT. +Falloff lets you pick your range to stay out of THEIR optimal and maybe start hitting sooner on your approach (farther out. +Damage is +damage). Not sure if the AC ammo penalty is really a penalty, but many seem to feel multi-damage type ammo is teh pwn.
Edited for grammar and sppellng.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Athanaric
Edited for grammar and sppellng.
Quoted for truth.
But seriously, is +damage, +tracking, etc, as sexy as being able to insta-switch between EM/Thermal and explosive damage, whilst never running out of ammo? Can anything be that sexy?
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Athanaric
Edited for grammar and sppellng.
So funny!
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:49:00 -
[14]
Falloff is garbage, our lock range is too small.
Quality Ammo:
5% DM per level
25% tracking per level
-25% ROF penalty
Quantity Ammo
5% ROF per lvl
25% Optimal per lvl
-25% DM penalty
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
RUNYOUFOOLS
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:50:00 -
[15]
Yeah its a pig to balance thats for sure. Still may as well put down some ideas, it all helps.
Arty ammo:
1: Something that does aroud emp damage,maybe even more than emp depending on how large you wanna go with the ammo clip, but at nuclear range. downside: huge size of the ammo itself, max of around 2-3 shots in a 1400mm
2: or flip the idea on its head, something that lets a 1400mm load around 30-40 shots, but only doing something like carb lead damage, decent range on it too. downside : for t2 ammo it does poor damage, but ups our dps(via not reloading much) this is more aimed towards 100km+ fleet battles tbh, reloading in those lag fests can be a right pain.
AC ammo:
1: kinda liked the idea of upping the damage a little but loseing rof, the ac's use a insane ammount of ammo to get the job done, this would help a fair bit.
ill edit my post as i think of other stuff, but this is a royal pain in the bottom. explosive lasers indeed.....
Originally by: Ginger Magician
I am the best and few would privately dispute it
Originally by: Kyozoku
It's been scientificly proven that warp stabs triple your chances of contracting testicular cancer. |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
But seriously, is +damage, +tracking, etc, as sexy as being able to insta-switch between EM/Thermal and explosive damage, whilst never running out of ammo? Can anything be that sexy?
The new T2 Crystals as listed do no explosive damage.
You can not insta-switch.
T2 Crystals degrade just like projectiles use ammo.
Oh yea, T2 Crystals still get a tracking penalty, sig rad penalty, shield hp penalty, and a 25% increase in the already absurd multifrequency cap useage.
And now they do a bit more EM damage. Gee...not so sexxy now.
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:53:00 -
[17]
i'd like to point out we're talking about an ammo to rival with EM hybrid charge and Explosive crystals, it has to be sexier than what you suggest...LIKE SEXEH
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:54:00 -
[18]
Edited by: KilROCK on 21/12/2005 15:54:33
Quote:
The new T2 Crystals as listed do no explosive damage.
Maybe because they ain't released yet.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.21 15:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 21/12/2005 15:59:22
"The new T2 Crystals as listed do no explosive damage."
The ones that this whole thread is about do.
"You can not insta-switch."
not if you have the dexterity of an elephant, no. Decent players, however, can pretty much insta switch 8 crystals. I know I can.
"T2 Crystals degrade just like projectiles use ammo."
Good. As it always should have been.
"Oh yea, T2 Crystals still get a tracking penalty, sig rad penalty, shield hp penalty, and a 25% increase in the already absurd multifrequency cap useage."
Which is again, irrelevent to the crystals we're talking about.
As my mum always said, "Engage brain before opening mouth". You could do with taking note of that.
Loading sig, please wait... |
RUNYOUFOOLS
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Posted - 2005.12.21 16:01:00 -
[20]
lol, nyx you know i ♥ j00 but t2 ammo makeing you lose shield hits on amarr ships... ohnoes!!1
and get in-game you bugger we need a word.
what we need a SEXEH AMMO
+1000% range
+2000% to nerfing amarr explosive lasers
there, problem solved.
Originally by: Ginger Magician
I am the best and few would privately dispute it
Originally by: Kyozoku
It's been scientificly proven that warp stabs triple your chances of contracting testicular cancer. |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.12.21 16:05:00 -
[21]
T2 Missiles are out.
People are reporting scortch being for sale on the market (sold out quickly).
They are listed on agents now. I hope, dearly truly and desperately hope that you are right Kilrock.
Nyxus
Plasmatique> "Cry 'Cartiff' and let slip the dogs of war!" |
Seraph Demon
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Posted - 2005.12.21 16:07:00 -
[22]
for AC ammo I would like:
2x ROF
2x DMG (so normalized damage is the same, but reloads are spread apart more)
single damage type;
15% sig-radius penalty for EM
25% cap reduction for therm (or 100% more cap use per shot)
15% speed reduction for kin
25% shield resistances penalty for explosive
all of them have 30% range reduction and do 13/26/52 dmg
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.12.21 16:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 21/12/2005 16:36:30
Precision ammo, that drops signature resolution on guns by a percentage.
'piercing' ammo that bleeds through a small percentage of damage onto armour. (Maybe another type that bleeds through onto hull).
Perhaps only 'increasing' the 'bleed through' point that one gets currently on shield/armour to 50% (75%?)rather than 25%.
Compact ammo, so you get more shots in a single reload.
Fast switching ammo that only takes 1 second to swap rather than 10.
--
Lyrus Associates is recruiting |
keepiru
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Posted - 2005.12.21 17:08:00 -
[24]
How is EM damage not a massive boost to gallente? Its the weakest caldari t2 resist, and 2nd-weakest amarr resist.
Which is just as big a boost as a laser ammo that allows you to do damage to the second-weakest resists to minnie shields, and the weakest gallente resists.
They are, in fact, tactically equivalent.
I really dont see why people complain so much more about one than the other. I smell moaning minnies.
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Please fix the EW stacking bug :(
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Ulfilas
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Posted - 2005.12.21 17:12:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ulfilas on 21/12/2005 17:12:41
Wrong character.
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Athanaric
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Posted - 2005.12.21 17:13:00 -
[26]
Piercing sounds sexeh.
Could get really wild and do corrosive ammo. Once you hit armor the ammo starts eating through both armor and structure. Might work rp wise too, for hit and run guerilla tactics.
Drawback is that it's totally wasted in short fights.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.21 18:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Crellion
Well Ammar only problem ever was low dmg on armour: solved by tech II armour (overpowered in my book)
Gallente minor issue was shield tanking (on tech I unhardened shields - on tech II or hardened therm - kin is as good as anything else btw): minor issue solved by tech II ammo = balanced
Caldari: since cold war too sensitive to small ships: tech II ammo fixed this. This was major issue but was the result of an overnerf so this fix = balanced
Minmatar: always nugging about dps: tech II ammo should give them +2% dps and 2% better r.o.f. costing them actual cap use (say double or triple) = balanced
I believe this is easy to implement and obvious solutions. Certainly therewill be matari posting here who will want + 25% dmg (make all tempys uber machariels) and those saying matari are allready overpowered and need nothing etc. but hey you cant keep everybody happy all of the time
Cap usage increase on projectiles? No thanks.
I vote for all-4-dmg-type ammo with rof bonus.
-=-
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Forsch
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Posted - 2005.12.21 18:58:00 -
[28]
With all your ideas, don't forget that T2 ammo is not supposed to be better than T1 ammo in every way. They should only be better in certain situations. That's why they all have drawbacks.
Btw I really think the 'decency' of a player shouldn't be determined by his ability to click 8 crystals as fast as possible .
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MrFu
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Posted - 2005.12.21 20:28:00 -
[29]
Arties now are forced to do more reloads with the HP change,and it makes me cry when I see a uber tanked raven that I can hardly hurt(well,let alone apocs..),and even If I do,reload time,only to see it laugh at me and fill me of lead(or whatever).
What would be sweet:
-I dont ask for new ammos that wtfpwn electronics,cap and jam you...but make bullet sizes bigger,at least for TII,arties are un-versatile enough(did I just make up that word?  ),no need to make them useless now.
my skills on projs are all maxed out,and really,those tanks LAUGH at me,LAUGH you hear me.We are suposed to be damage dealers,because honestly,we cant freaking tank(maybe an AC setup,but an apoc/raven tanks infinitely better),looks like we cant hurt as well.
Dont make me hit the train caldari BS 5 as everyone else.. 
kk,il go back to lurk in my hole
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.21 21:20:00 -
[30]
Give amarr their explosive crystals, but for the love of god don't make let have cystals that do explosive as their main damage type.
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.21 21:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Give amarr their explosive crystals, but for the love of god don't make let have cystals that do explosive as their main damage type.
Signed. Id say EM + Explosive. So if lets say summ of Crystal L will be 40dmg, then make 25 of it EM and 15 Explosive.
And still, give Minmatar something that will also make their t2 ammo unique like the new dmg type ammos for the hybrids and lasers.
I mean the 4dmg-type ammo isnt a bad idea...
-=-
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.21 21:51:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
I mean the 4dmg-type ammo isnt a bad idea...
12 damage for each type - 30% resisted on shields, 35% resisted on armour.
now where's that drooling emoticon...
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.12.21 22:17:00 -
[33]
IS theres a thread/page with full info on t2 ammo?
We're coming for you |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.21 22:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Sun Ra
IS theres a thread/page with full info on t2 ammo?
yes, but afaik chribba's lovely eve-search is still down
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2005.12.21 22:56:00 -
[35]
Since Projectiles rely more on kenetic energy and force of impact that laser beams or energized matter, how about a knockback effect on their ammo? It would be the bane of all warpcore stab lovers, constantly knocking them out of alignment.
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.12.21 23:15:00 -
[36]
sorry, did I miss the part where amarr got explosive damage from tech II ammo? because seriously, all the amarr tech II ammo does EM and Thermal damage according to the market info. Could be me though.... apparently some of the stats don't match description either... think scorch says something about increased tracking, but stats show a 0.75 modifier to tracking
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Merv Tring
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Posted - 2005.12.21 23:29:00 -
[37]
I would like to see flak/buckshot type projectile ammo. Reduced range and improved sig radius. Frigates orbiting your battleship getting you down? Give them a hull full of 425mm AA-gun.
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"Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far Drives the thundring jet,
Up leaps the race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet-" |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.21 23:38:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Na'Axin
sorry, did I miss the part where amarr got explosive damage from tech II ammo? because seriously, all the amarr tech II ammo does EM and Thermal damage according to the market info. Could be me though.... apparently some of the stats don't match description either... think scorch says something about increased tracking, but stats show a 0.75 modifier to tracking
the Explosive cystals and EM hybrid charges are not added in, due to "minmatar not having something as sexy" (paraphrased from tuxford). when something good is thought up for minmatar ammo that is just as uber as explosive cystals, explosive cystals will get into the game.
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.12.21 23:43:00 -
[39]
I thought I posted this but it didnt seem to get in.
I like the piercing ammo idea. Also long range EM would be nice seeing as most peopel shield tank at long range, but we don't do EM damage at long range. And for short range something a bit more KIN/EXP would be good (except vs. Raven).
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
MrFu
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:45:00 -
[40]
Autocannons could use a slight increase in damage also,maybe at the expense of firing-speed.We are best at chewing through ammo like a knife through hot butter,not sure that is a good thing to be best at tho.
Most autopest setup depend entirely of a cap injector to keep running,having to carry a billion bullets plus to charges(I know they weight a lot less,but its still a ***xnsload of weight**)
/whiny biatch mode off 
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:45:00 -
[41]
Give Minmatar FoF artillery shells. Dunno about being sexy, but certainly unusual enough!  
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Taizu Lilith
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Posted - 2005.12.22 01:20:00 -
[42]
Sexy new ammo for Projectiles::
How about penetrating shot? Make it ignore armor... (but do lower damage?)
(I at first was going to suggest G*****Shot, but can't really picture that in space)
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.12.22 02:35:00 -
[43]
Something that needs restated in this thread:
Tech 2 Projectile Ammo should not be a fix for balancing.
Those of you that are suggesting ROF and Tracking bonuses need to think about that when you say this. The guns themselves need balanced before the ammo is out in my opinion. Tossing in a ROF bonus isn't giving us tech 2 ammo, its giving us a crappy way to balance guns that should've been balanced in the first place. Some one somewhere suggested Tech 2 ammo that was "smaller in size". That isn't any better. They should balance the guns then give us the tech 2 ammo to supplement the changes.
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xaioguai
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Posted - 2005.12.22 06:07:00 -
[44]
equaly sexy?
I will say some kind of ew ammo, something that reduce speed (mud ball?) something that knock the target's cap off or reduce target's sensor strength (real EMP), and maybe something that can blow up target's signature radius by 100% (signal flare)
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2005.12.22 09:12:00 -
[45]
my opinion on the third T2 ammo stands, give it something funky. Imagine this:
- an armageddon with laser ammo draining the target of cap like a nosferatu (just less and damage wouldn't be great either as the nosferatu systems need room)
- a caldari rail boat firing slugs with a built-in ecm burst(a chance to break the lock of the target, just less damage)
- Blasterthron firing antimatter with part of the slug containing a cap booster charge, resulting in quite a lower cap use(-75%?) for the blasters
- Tempest firing Howitzer rounds with a small em package designed to disrupt energy flow in the power systems of the target(causing cap to be lost)
- other neat effects would be possible( tracking disruption? sensor dampage? a lot of options )
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The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.22 10:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Damien Vox
Something that needs restated in this thread:
Tech 2 Projectile Ammo should not be a fix for balancing.
Those of you that are suggesting ROF and Tracking bonuses need to think about that when you say this. The guns themselves need balanced before the ammo is out in my opinion. Tossing in a ROF bonus isn't giving us tech 2 ammo, its giving us a crappy way to balance guns that should've been balanced in the first place. Some one somewhere suggested Tech 2 ammo that was "smaller in size". That isn't any better. They should balance the guns then give us the tech 2 ammo to supplement the changes.
Ah thanks, thought I was gonna have to say that AGAIN :P
And to others, please, stop asking for ammo types that drain cap, etc. Those ammo types are simply not feasible. We need something that works on *basic* principles - damage types, tracking, rof, etc.
My list of favourites/ideas so far....
4 damage type ammo
Arty 'Shotgun' Ammo - Massive tracking increase, massively reduced optimal + falloff
AC Dynamo Ammo - Mid-Good KIN/EXP damage, normal tracking and range, bonus cap recharge.
Loading sig, please wait... |
Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2005.12.22 12:04:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
And to others, please, stop asking for ammo types that drain cap, etc. Those ammo types are simply not feasible. We need something that works on *basic* principles - damage types, tracking, rof, etc.
Why not have that kind of ammo, it would be the third ammo type, the other two would be "normal"? Give me a mind popping reason and I might reconsider my opinion 
Originally by: Testy Mctest
My list of favourites/ideas so far....
4 damage type ammo
Arty 'Shotgun' Ammo - Massive tracking increase, massively reduced optimal + falloff
AC Dynamo Ammo - Mid-Good KIN/EXP damage, normal tracking and range, bonus cap recharge.
If you want it limited to these well, I'd say a "shotgun" AC ammo(could call it flak ammo) would be nice I suppose, not really a point to have it on artillery imo. and that AC dynamo ammo isn't that 'funky' as well, as in not based on "basic" principles
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The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
Lonectzn
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Posted - 2005.12.22 12:29:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Lonectzn on 22/12/2005 12:29:58
Looking at the explosive crystals, they'll not just be something funky, but a must-have for anyone with the skills to use them. They perfectly fill the void with amarr damage. The t2 hybrids seem to do this as well, though it's less marked because the void itself isn't so obvious. The problem with projectiles is the void is not in damage type. It's just about everything else. The t2 crystals will be used extensively. We shouldn't then be afraid of making a t2 projectile that will be used just as much. So it's gotta be useful everyday situations, but not completely replacing t1 crystals.
It shouldn't be too complicated, but perhaps something to help bring back the matari first strike would be nice.
Dunno, how about this:
Arti ammo: 400% ROF (4 times faster), EM/explosive, 1000% (or more) to capacitor use. -20% optimal. size of EMP ammo. perhaps prevents use of cap injectors and/or -25% to max cap?
Any ship using that has highest initial dps you've seen on a bs, but doesn't last. Uses around 60 cap/second using 6 1400's with a few gyro. The first load of ammo uses 1500 cap in 25s before you need to reload.
Though on second thought really no matter how you bring it back that ammo is uber gankage with the 400% rof. Seems a bit much, but may as well post it anyway, and ganking is exactly the matari thing in any case. Think of a way to not make that uber, please (I want it =).
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.22 13:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Sky Hunter
I mean the 4dmg-type ammo isnt a bad idea...
12 damage for each type - 30% resisted on shields, 35% resisted on armour.
now where's that drooling emoticon...
Why not actually?
Imagine what dmg will am Explosive Crystal do if explosive dmg set as primary there i.e. dealing close to 30 dmg....
Give us 4-dmg-type ammo \o/ No need for bonuses Just 4 dmg types in one ammo, yarr!
-=-
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Sky Hunter
I mean the 4dmg-type ammo isnt a bad idea...
12 damage for each type - 30% resisted on shields, 35% resisted on armour.
now where's that drooling emoticon...
Why not actually?
Imagine what dmg will am Explosive Crystal do if explosive dmg set as primary there i.e. dealing close to 30 dmg....
Give us 4-dmg-type ammo \o/ No need for bonuses Just 4 dmg types in one ammo, yarr!
and give it a 500% bonus to falloff
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.22 14:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
If you want it limited to these well, I'd say a "shotgun" AC ammo(could call it flak ammo) would be nice I suppose, not really a point to have it on artillery imo. and that AC dynamo ammo isn't that 'funky' as well, as in not based on "basic" principles
Funky Ammo: You cant have funky ammo because it's a whole new area of coding to make ammo bleed through armour to hull, or to make it web targets, etc. Plus, youre just duplicating midslot/highslot stuff with other highslot stuff, which is pointless. I doubt that anything like this would be considered by devs, which is why we mighrt as well restrict our discussion to what would work.
Shotgun Arty Ammo: Shotgun would have to be slow reload, big damage, to feel right. Hence arty ammo. Plus theres no point giving AC a range negative and a tracking mod. It does that already. The point is to load your sniper gun with a flak round to hurt very close range stuff. Which would mean arty was still weak mid range, where it still cant hit.
Dynamo Ammo: no, its not funky. Its using existing mechanics on the Advanced Ammo stats pages, such as cap recharge change, etc. it would simply be an ammo with a -5% cap recharge bonus or somesuch.
Artillery Extreme Ammo: OK, you didnt ask about it, but it would freaking own.
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Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:17:00 -
[52]
I think a really "special" ammo bonus for Projectiles would be:
"Armor Piercing"
Special bonus:
On excellent hits the ammo goes straight through the armour inflicting damage to structure and a random module.
On wrecking shots the ammo goes straight through the armour inflicting damage to structure and destroys a random module.
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Mini Skill Planner |
Laythun
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:28:00 -
[53]
maybe off topic, but what are the 'racial' reasons for the current ammo setup?
is there a link? that would maybe let me understand a little bit more why some races start with all 4 ammo types and some dont.
See Me!
http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url] |
Koth Krakenworth
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:32:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Since Projectiles rely more on kenetic energy and force of impact that laser beams or energized matter, how about a knockback effect on their ammo? It would be the bane of all warpcore stab lovers, constantly knocking them out of alignment
I love it!
Awesome, that is some sexeh sh*t right there! Can do less damage then usual rounds, but would be an awesome ability for the now rather useless tempest.
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes."
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:36:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Koth Krakenworth
Quote:
Since Projectiles rely more on kenetic energy and force of impact that laser beams or energized matter, how about a knockback effect on their ammo? It would be the bane of all warpcore stab lovers, constantly knocking them out of alignment
I love it!
Awesome, that is some sexeh sh*t right there! Can do less damage then usual rounds, but would be an awesome ability for the now rather useless tempest.
And whats the exact point of preventing target from aligning to warp out when doing less dmg to it making tankers laugh.
Id rather go for the 4-dmg-type or hull-piercing ideas....
Minmatar need T2 ammo that will make Amarr run scared just like Amarr with explosive crystals make Minmatar armor tanker run scared.
-=-
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.12.22 17:25:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
On excellent hits the ammo goes straight through the armour inflicting damage to structure and a random module.
On wrecking shots the ammo goes straight through the armour inflicting damage to structure and destroys a random module.
Module damage does not exist in game. Forget about them coding a new game feature just for our T2 ammo.
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Karl Shade
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Posted - 2005.12.22 19:08:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Karl Shade on 22/12/2005 19:09:09
Makes hostile captains move 50% slower. Ammarians move 75% slower as they have to overcome their inhibitions before they look.
Midget version available for small and medium guns.
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.12.22 19:34:00 -
[58]
not to happy with the current t2 ammo on tq either, been going over the stats, but beating amarr t2 tanks or shieldtankers is gonne be a pain :|, so whatever it is the third ammo type's gotta be something with thermal and good shield damage. otherwise it's back to emp and PP for our main racial opponent.
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
...
Funky Ammo: You cant have funky ammo because it's a whole new area of coding to make ammo bleed through armour to hull, or to make it web targets, etc. Plus, youre just duplicating midslot/highslot stuff with other highslot stuff, which is pointless. I doubt that anything like this would be considered by devs, which is why we mighrt as well restrict our discussion to what would work.
I see your point, however why should we restrict the ideas flowing, just because just maybe they wouldn't consider it, its pointless not to bring it to attention. If we wouldn't they would prolly definately not consider it. As for it costing extra programming time, well they had to program the other effects (and if they made module effects abstract enough there prolly wouldn't be that much coding needed). Also about the duplicating of mid/highslot stuff, I take one gander at drones and what do I see, oh no drones duplicating effects of modules. (PS I was not the one uttering about piercing ammo, don't think that would be usefull anyway )
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Shotgun Arty Ammo: Shotgun would have to be slow reload, big damage, to feel right. Hence arty ammo. Plus theres no point giving AC a range negative and a tracking mod. It does that already. The point is to load your sniper gun with a flak round to hurt very close range stuff. Which would mean arty was still weak mid range, where it still cant hit.
Well my view of flak/shotgun is that the weapon has a high rate of fire and is relatively short range, think of an assault shotgun(Jackhammer) as an analogy, instead of a pump action. so a fast tracking, low range(10k for bs), low damage(more geared towards anti-small stuff, mimicking spread)
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Dynamo Ammo: no, its not funky. Its using existing mechanics on the Advanced Ammo stats pages, such as cap recharge change, etc. it would simply be an ammo with a -5% cap recharge bonus or somesuch.
In your definition of funky it would be classed as such as it would duplicate, guess what... a cap recharger (if you didn't know thats a midslot item )
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Artillery Extreme Ammo: OK, you didnt ask about it, but it would freaking own.
hmm? you mean extreme range artillery ammo ? yeah it would, though I think we already got that .
PS sorry it took me this long to reply, and sorry for the quasi necromancy (ohnoos!! page 2)
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The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
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