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Ali Aras
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
319
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Posted - 2013.08.20 20:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thread for thoughts, comments, etc on the PLEX market and PLEX market session. Let us know if there's any questions you want asked or any general things you'd like us to bring up and focus on. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC The Last Chancers.
714
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Posted - 2013.08.21 02:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
If I can ask a stupid question? What is the "PLEX Market?" Does it concern the strategies for controlling the ISK price of PLEX, and keeping it within a desired range? Is it about the real money price for PLEX? Is it about the alternative uses for PLEX: AURUM, resculpting, and dual character training? Finding more alternative uses? All of the above? None of the above? Some of the above? :-D Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Ali Aras
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
323
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Posted - 2013.08.21 04:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm not that much more sure than you are! I expect it will cover some of all of the above; what services are offered for PLEX, how PLEX prices are working in the game (as they've gone up with dual-training, it'll be interesting to hear what kind of pricepoint they want to set).
Basically anything PLEX is on the table, so for example, I expect we'll hear about dual character training and how that's worked in practice. How has that worked for folks who've used it? For folks who haven't? http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11288
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Posted - 2013.08.21 06:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'll throw one thought out on the table for the dogs to sniff:
Have CCP considered increasing the granularity of PLEX in order to fine-tune the value offerings?
For instance, instead of a single 30-day PLEX for your $19.99 (or 2 for your $35 GTC), what if you got 30 1-day PLEXes
This would then allow more gradiated pricing for PLEX-priced services - like character transfers which currently cost either $20 or 2 PLEX - and make it viable for CCP to offer much more minor services for PLEX.
It would also allow players greater flexibility to pay for game time through in game needs. A player currently needs a minimum ~550M ISK to extend his game time. Breaking the PLEX down to 1-day increments would (naively) reduce that minimum to about 18-19M ISK.
(It would be trivial to set a 30-day minimum to reactivate an account in order to prevent "hours for PLEX" abuse")
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11288
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Posted - 2013.08.21 06:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm thinking of scenarios here like "My subscription ends tomorrow but I don't get paid until Friday, and I don't want to go overdrawn and incur a bank charge. If only there was some way I could extend my sub by a couple of days "
1 Kings 12:11
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Ali Aras
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
323
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Posted - 2013.08.21 16:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is a good idea and I would support it. Or, heck, if CCP wanted to, you could even combine PLEX and AUR: 30 AUR can be converted either way to one PLEX, one AUR can be spent to extend your gametime one day (or your subscription is just counted in AUR, much the way certain 'minutes' in cell phone plans can be 'spent' on texts). http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11304
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Posted - 2013.08.21 17:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:This is a good idea and I would support it. Or, heck, if CCP wanted to, you could even combine PLEX and AUR: 30 AUR can be converted either way to one PLEX, one AUR can be spent to extend your gametime one day (or your subscription is just counted in AUR, much the way certain 'minutes' in cell phone plans can be 'spent' on texts).
I very much doubt this will happen because of the millions of free AUR that were given away, most of which lies ignored and unused in people's wallets. I still have my 5500AUR, which I would instantly convert into 6 months of game time. The inevitable effect on CCPs finances of a couple hundred thousand accounts doing the same is... disturbing
1 Kings 12:11
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Arik Alabel
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2013.08.22 15:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
To clarify - are you suggesting Plex turns into a 24-hour product, and all existing plex would be converted into that format?
Or are you suggesting two types of plex, 30-day and 1 day?
I do think there is value for 1-day plex, but looking at it from CCP's perspective, I'm sure they'd rather sell a "30-day" to someone who only needs it for a day than a "1-day plex" to more people.
A counter to this would be inflated prices for a "1-day", where if multiplied by 30, would be something like 1.5x the cost of a 30-day. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC The Last Chancers.
714
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 18:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
I wouldn't mind if PLEX were broken down into, say, 1-Day, 7-Day and 30-Day PLEX. The more uses CCP wants to get out of PLEX, the more a little granularity in the currency would help.
Beyond that, I'm content with the system as it is. Dual character training may not be the cheapest option, but it's easy and convenient, and it's reasonable that ease and convenience should come with a price. I've been taking advantage of it. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11346
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Posted - 2013.08.23 08:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arik Alabel wrote:To clarify - are you suggesting Plex turns into a 24-hour product, and all existing plex would be converted into that format?
Or are you suggesting two types of plex, 30-day and 1 day?
I do think there is value for 1-day plex, but looking at it from CCP's perspective, I'm sure they'd rather sell a "30-day" to someone who only needs it for a day than a "1-day plex" to more people.
A counter to this would be inflated prices for a "1-day", where if multiplied by 30, would be something like 1.5x the cost of a 30-day.
People who buy PLEX for ISK buy them from other players, not from CCP. CCP can simply continue with their current model of selling 30 days for $19.99; the only thing that would change in game would be that when the purchaser redeemed their PLEX he would get a stack of 30 1-day PLEX. Which he could then subdivide into 7-day, 14-day, x-day stacks as suited him and seemed likely to give the best ISK return for his investment.
Since most PLEX are used by people to maintain an account indefinitely, in-game, the price needn't change very much. They'll just buy a stack at the price that's right, apply that stack and carry on.
In short, there's no need to enforce any price differential for 1-day and 30 day PLEX, any more than there's a RL need to give people a bigger sandwich for paying with a $100 bill instead of 100 $1 bills. The increased business you see from being able to sell a sandwich for less than $100 more than compensates for the trivial extra administration overhead.
1 Kings 12:11
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Rengerel en Distel
1785
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Posted - 2013.08.24 02:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
People who buy PLEX for ISK buy them from other players, not from CCP.
What?
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11366
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Posted - 2013.08.25 04:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Malcanis wrote:
People who buy PLEX for ISK buy them from other players, not from CCP.
What?
You didn't know this?
1 Kings 12:11
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
677
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Posted - 2013.08.25 07:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Remove PLEX, keep Aurum. We now instantly have a much finer granularity at 4500 AUR/$35. One month subscription 4500 AUR, char transfer 6000 AUR. FF ticket 27000 AUR.
This way we will get back to only two currencies in game again: ISK and AUR. Should make it a lot less confusing for everyone.
I leave it to CCP to decide what to do with the free month of subs given to everyone though. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11366
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Posted - 2013.08.25 09:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Remove PLEX, keep Aurum. We now instantly have a much finer granularity at 4500 AUR/$35. One month subscription 4500 AUR....
CCP would have to somehow stop the AUR they gave away being used for this, or basically accept a massive reduction in income for 6 months.
1 Kings 12:11
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Rengerel en Distel
1788
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Posted - 2013.08.25 17:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:Malcanis wrote:
People who buy PLEX for ISK buy them from other players, not from CCP.
What? You didn't know this?
Perhaps it's the use of "for" that threw me. I read it as "People who buy PLEX to convert to ISK ..." but re-reading it you must have meant "People who buy PLEX from ISK ..." I can neither confirm nor deny the time of day had anything to do with my reading comprehension.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1503
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Posted - 2013.08.26 12:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Remove PLEX, keep Aurum. We now instantly have a much finer granularity at 4500 AUR/$35. One month subscription 4500 AUR.... CCP would have to somehow stop the AUR they gave away being used for this, or basically accept a massive reduction in income for 6 months.
I'm fairly certain that they gave away a total of 5500 AUR, so it wouldn't really be "massive reduction for six months." Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
71
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Posted - 2013.08.26 18:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I'll throw one thought out on the table for the dogs to sniff:
Have CCP considered increasing the granularity of PLEX in order to fine-tune the value offerings?
For instance, instead of a single 30-day PLEX for your $19.99 (or 2 for your $35 GTC), what if you got 30 1-day PLEXes
This would then allow more gradiated pricing for PLEX-priced services - like character transfers which currently cost either $20 or 2 PLEX - and make it viable for CCP to offer much more minor services for PLEX.
It would also allow players greater flexibility to pay for game time through in game needs. A player currently needs a minimum ~550M ISK to extend his game time. Breaking the PLEX down to 1-day increments would (naively) reduce that minimum to about 18-19M ISK.
(It would be trivial to set a 30-day minimum to reactivate an account in order to prevent "hours for PLEX" abuse")
This
A 1-day, 7-day, 30-day, 60-day plex would help new players a lot to.
If you are new to his game you can not just pay ~540million isk for a plex at once.
However increments leading up to a full plex would be much smarter,
allowing new players to sub their account in the beginning easier through gameplay. Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg http://bit.ly/13cGuW0 |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11418
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Posted - 2013.08.27 14:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Remove PLEX, keep Aurum. We now instantly have a much finer granularity at 4500 AUR/$35. One month subscription 4500 AUR.... CCP would have to somehow stop the AUR they gave away being used for this, or basically accept a massive reduction in income for 6 months. I'm fairly certain that they gave away a total of 5500 AUR, so it wouldn't really be "massive reduction for six months."
At Ali's proposed rate of 30 AUR = 1 day, 5500 AUR = 187 days.
1 Kings 12:11
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Elezondo
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2013.08.28 01:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
For curiosities sake, how many have been destroyed (through not dropping from cargo) in the last year. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4019
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Posted - 2013.08.28 04:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:mynnna wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Remove PLEX, keep Aurum. We now instantly have a much finer granularity at 4500 AUR/$35. One month subscription 4500 AUR.... CCP would have to somehow stop the AUR they gave away being used for this, or basically accept a massive reduction in income for 6 months. I'm fairly certain that they gave away a total of 5500 AUR, so it wouldn't really be "massive reduction for six months." At Ali's proposed rate of 30 AUR = 1 day, 5500 AUR = 187 days.
The current ingame exchange rate is 1 PLEX -> 3500 Aurum or thereabouts. There are also 1000-Aurum tokens. It makes sense to me that CCP would allow exchange with taxes, such that 4 x 1000 Aurum tokens can be redeemed for 1 x PLEX. This also paves the way for redeeming 1000 Aurum for 7 days of game time directly from the 1000 Aurum token.
Thus CCP wins, apart from the 1 month free time that players might get from the extant free Aurum, and associated market no sense. This could be mitigated by putting time limits on redemption of wallet Aurum to Aurum tokens (e.g.: one per month).
And then we open up the DUST/EVE economy so eggers and dust bunnies can exchange Aurum, ISK, or items as part of attack/defense contracts (items including PLEX, Aurum tokens).
So we get a once-a-month option to liberate Aurum from our wallet in the form of a 1000-Aurum token. Then LP or NeX stores (why aren't they the same infrastructure?) allow trade of 4 x Aurum token for 1 x PLEX in any quantity. Which can then be redeemed for 3500 Aurum directly in your wallet. Allow all the physical items to be traded, and allow Aurum to be used as a currency in contracts (in EVE and DUST and crossing between economies).
But I have probably left gaping forex holes in that scheme. I hoped to address the issues by implicit taxation, since we can't liberate ALL of our free Aurum, we can't liberate the 5500 all in one go, and there will be a more granular currency than 1 PLEX.
I don't see why CCP would reduce the PLEX prices of services to some number of Aurum tokens. The current prices are all free money for them, and the prices re set that high to reduce demand for the service in the first place.
With this in place, expect the price of PLEX to skyrocket. Just like the prices skyrocketed when PLEX were introduced, allowing speculation on game time.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4019
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Posted - 2013.08.28 04:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
But I would love to hear why LP stores and NeX stores are different things. Noble Exchange should have their own station(s). NeX should be the Noble Exchange's "LP Store" and all LP stores should allow Aurum as part of the purchase currency (in addition to ISK, LP, sets of items).
But that is probably not the PLEX market CCP wants to talk about. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
140
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 16:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Can AUR value be normalized with DUST?
Aka: $20 is 40,000 AUR in DUST, but only 2000 AUR in EVE, or something like that. EVE AUR wallets and prices should be multiplied to match DUST.
Name changes would be a great feature to spend AUR on for both games, with the previously discussed need for a name history on the public corporation sheet. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4024
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Posted - 2013.08.28 21:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Can AUR value be normalized with DUST?
Aka: $20 is 40,000 AUR in DUST, but only 2000 AUR in EVE, or something like that. EVE AUR wallets and prices should be multiplied to match DUST.
Name changes would be a great feature to spend AUR on for both games, with the previously discussed need for a name history on the public corporation sheet.
Another option here is to multiply the number of items bought in DUST with a certain amount of Aurum by 10, and reduce the Aurum bought to match the cost of PLEX or 4 x 1000 aurum tokens. There will be a transition period, but not matching the real world prices of the ingame currencies in the first place is a bit of a doozy.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 21:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Crasniya wrote:Can AUR value be normalized with DUST?
Aka: $20 is 40,000 AUR in DUST, but only 2000 AUR in EVE, or something like that. EVE AUR wallets and prices should be multiplied to match DUST.
Name changes would be a great feature to spend AUR on for both games, with the previously discussed need for a name history on the public corporation sheet. Another option here is to multiply the number of items bought in DUST with a certain amount of Aurum by 10, and reduce the Aurum bought to match the cost of PLEX or 4 x 1000 aurum tokens. There will be a transition period, but not matching the real world prices of the ingame currencies in the first place is a bit of a doozy.
Given that AUR is a staple currency in DUST, highly used, and also tied into Sony's PlayStation Store, the pain of adjusting that system would be high. People should be able to buy single items of fits, otherwise you end up with odd mismatched sets of items as some things get destroyed but not others, and such. As some stuff is pretty expensive, it's the rough equivalent of being told "Well, you have to buy 10 monocles at a time".
Meanwhile, barely anyone uses the EVE AUR system, and it's entirely under CCP's direct control, so the pain of implementing the change to EVE would be much more manageable. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4024
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Posted - 2013.08.28 21:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Given that AUR is a staple currency in DUST, highly used, and also tied into Sony's PlayStation Store, the pain of adjusting that system would be high. People should be able to buy single items of fits, otherwise you end up with odd mismatched sets of items as some things get destroyed but not others, and such. As some stuff is pretty expensive, it's the rough equivalent of being told "Well, you have to buy 10 monocles at a time".
Meanwhile, barely anyone uses the EVE AUR system, and it's entirely under CCP's direct control, so the pain of implementing the change to EVE would be much more manageable.
You can buy single items from the ISK side of the market. This side of the market is going to become severely disrupted when manufacture of DUST equipment is done by capsuleers, and the ubiquitous availability of weaponry and armour disappears. So at some point there is going to be pain and disruption anyway, so CCP may as well take that opportunity to disrupt DUST entirely rather than spreading the pain over two game communities.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 21:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
... The reason DUST AUR is where it's at, is they needed finer granularity for purchasing. It's an active market. Are you really telling me the EVE AUR market is actually in functional use as more than just a forgotten toy?
You're talking about making it harder for DUST players to purchase single items. And obviously you know nothing about the DUST market, because ISK items != AUR items.
What I'm talking about doesn't impede EVE players at all. |
FightingMoose
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
1
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think that making the system $>Aurum<>Plex<>ISK rather than the current $ or PLEX>Aurum/ $>Plex<>ISK dual system makes sense in terms of simplification. It only works, however, if preserved at the current PLEX/Aurum rate (or thereabouts), so 3500 AUR/plex. I also like the idea of a daily or weekly PLEX, though I would propose that they be set as more expensive in terms of AUR/playtime; buying in bulk should save players money just like it does right now with multiple PLEX.
I would propose prices approximately 900 AUR for a one-week and 150 for a one-day. At current Jita Plex prices (574 ISK), or about 6.1 AUR per million ISK, that puts their prices at 147 million for a week and 25 million for a day.
This would mean that with the free AUR given to all players (which I also haven't touched), players could get about a month and a week of free playtime. I don't know if CCP is willing to sacrifice this much revenue, and we should also take into consideration the possibility that it would be a disruptive force in the PLEX market (25,000 active accounts dumping a PLEX each into Jita would drop the price considerably, especially if done simultaneously. ) |
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
119
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Posted - 2013.09.13 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:mynnna wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Remove PLEX, keep Aurum. We now instantly have a much finer granularity at 4500 AUR/$35. One month subscription 4500 AUR.... CCP would have to somehow stop the AUR they gave away being used for this, or basically accept a massive reduction in income for 6 months. I'm fairly certain that they gave away a total of 5500 AUR, so it wouldn't really be "massive reduction for six months." At Ali's proposed rate of 30 AUR = 1 day, 5500 AUR = 187 days.
This is fair considering the people who received this donation where active subscribers when incarna was released. We endured the shitstorm, its about time we get some reimbursement :)
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Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
293
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Posted - 2013.09.18 14:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP has the offer "PLEX for Re-Sculpting".
Have CCP add another vanity item for PLEX.
CCP can call it "PLEX for Removal of Unwanted Skills".
You DO NOT get skill points or price of skill books reimbursed.
I guarantee that "PLEX for Removal of Unwanted Skills" will be used more than the "PLEX for Re-Sculpting". :P
R.I.P. Vile Rat |
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1765
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
You can not possibly set the current ingame Aurum/ISK/PLEX rate as basis for monthly basis for new subscription model. There are hundreds, if not thousands of those who purchased AURUMS at a rate of 2,500AUR/$14.99. Upon following the ingame market rate, those who have purchased and bought AURUM with real cash would be in a disadvantageous position. The current actual store rate of 2,500AUR/$14.99 should be maintained. |
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