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ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1834
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
(Note to all you hotshot forumwarriors: This is neither a feature nor an idea, as I am proposing nothing. Stay in your dark corner.)
Now, as we are mostly aware there's something to be desired about black ops battleships. Some've suggested that adding the covops cloak to them would fix them; I dunno, and I'm not interested in talking about that.
Looking at the bonuses to the ships from the Black Ops skill, we can see a smorgasbord of delightful and useful buffs alongside the 125% cloaked velocity bonus:
- The Widow: 30% bonus to ECM jammer strength. I think we all know that ECM tank, alongside station tank, honortank and highsec tank is the best tank.
- The Redeemer: 7.5% bonus to tracking per level. Lovely, big guns always work best when they hit things.
- The Panther: 5% bonus to velocity. Ehhhhh, but coupled with the fact it's a minmatar hull and does 625% that original (pre other skills) 125% when cloaked there is use to be had from this speed boost. Small as it may be.
- The Sin: 5% bonus to agility. Oh.
Now, on the face of it this bonus would seem to have at least some merit, considering the hybrid turret damage bonus the Sin gets from Gallente Battleship V. Kite like a watermelon, sting like a bee. But look, the poor ickle Sin can only bring four guns to bear. The Panther gets five turrets, and even the Widow gets five launchers, whilst the redeemer gets a whopping six! May seem like a tiny difference when you consider the fact that the Sin gets its 5% damage bonus, but look!
- The Widow: 5% ROF bonus and 10% cruise and torp velocity bonus
- The Redeemer: 7.5% tracking bonus, 5% bonus to ROF and a 10% bonus to turret capacitor use ()
- The Panther: 5% Damage bonus, 5% ROF bonus
- The Sin: 5% Damage bonus, 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per level.
...Ah. Split weapons. Lovely. But with no bonus to tracking to either of them, the Sin does a very good job of spinning in circles on the spot with its 25% agility bonus, whilst railguns or blasters shoot at a target that moved about two minutes ago and Ogres and Sentries wonder when exactly in their career they lost their edge.
So, I wonder now: What do you think will happen to the Sin from tiericide? What should happen to the papertank potato? Will it go the way of the Dominix and become a focused drone carrier with some nice blackops extras, or will CCP bolt on an extra blaster and give it the bonus it needs to become a "surprise beeeeeyotch" gunboat? Or maybe something else entirely? Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Mac Munoz
Only One Corp
1
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
I just want to hot drop people in hisec. |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sin is a really useful combat BLOPS atm. The agility bonus and sentry assign doctrine makes it excellent at the cloaky sniper role in guerrilla warfare. It can also be a neut domi.
Off all the other BLOPS the widow has a similiar level of field usefulness. Redeemer stretches into a black ops hauler role, panther is plain bad with remote use as alpha boat.
If I want to put a BLOPS on field, it's going to be either a cloaky surprise sniper sin, a neut sin, or a gtfo provider widow. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1835
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Spod wrote:Sin is a really useful combat BLOPS atm. The agility bonus and sentry assign doctrine makes it excellent at the cloaky sniper role in guerrilla warfare. It can also be a neut domi.
Off all the other BLOPS the widow has a similiar level of field usefulness. Redeemer stretches into a black ops hauler role, panther is plain bad with remote use as alpha boat.
If I want to put a BLOPS on field, it's going to be either a cloaky surprise sniper sin, a neut sin, or a gtfo provider widow.
Wonderful, but that's not the question. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
274
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
I am prone to Sin a lot. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
460
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
The reason the black ops role has floundered is, CCP never figured out what they wanted it to do.
Is it a baby titan or is it a ninja assault ship? Neither and both and in EVE Online, home of the one trick pony the duplicity role means it sucks at both or isn't as good at either role as another ship. Marauder suffers the same fate in many ways. It's why in both cases, Faction Battleships are a far better option.
In many ways all T2 is throttled in EVE from this.
- //// - Here is the benefit - ///////////////////////////////// - Here is the penalty.
It just screams at you louder the further up the chain you go. Black Ops and Marauder are at the end of that diminishing returns, penalty system. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
637
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's not a suggestion but it's also on the wrong forum anyway.
Ship and modules |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1835
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ioci wrote:The reason the black ops role has floundered is, CCP never figured out what they wanted it to do.
Is it a baby titan or is it a ninja assault ship? Neither and both and in EVE Online, home of the one trick pony the duplicity role means it sucks at both or isn't as good at either role as another ship. Marauder suffers the same fate in many ways. It's why in both cases, Faction Battleships are a far better option.
In many ways all T2 is throttled in EVE from this.
- //// - Here is the benefit - ///////////////////////////////// - Here is the penalty.
It just screams at you louder the further up the chain you go. Black Ops and Marauder are at the end of that diminishing returns, penalty system.
I get the feeling I should have put the actual purpose of the thread at the start. But you are correct. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
3929
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
My Space Potato!
CCP will act to buff the Sin's most useful fitting style: [Sin, Useful Sin]
Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Caldari Navy Cloaking Device Covert Jump Portal Generator I Covert Cynosural Field Generator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Cargohold Optimization II Large Cargohold Optimization II
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
baltec1
Bat Country
7637
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Its a potato than can turn invisible and throw other invisible things long distances. Its big drawback is the Irish. |
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
5858
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Came expecting a thread about bad life decisions and questionable acts.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
726
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Spod wrote:Sin is a really useful combat BLOPS atm. The agility bonus and sentry assign doctrine makes it excellent at the cloaky sniper role in guerrilla warfare. It can also be a neut domi.
Off all the other BLOPS the widow has a similiar level of field usefulness. Redeemer stretches into a black ops hauler role, panther is plain bad with remote use as alpha boat.
If I want to put a BLOPS on field, it's going to be either a cloaky surprise sniper sin, a neut sin, or a gtfo provider widow.
Lots of opinion, but not much actual experience?
Panthers are dropped daily in null with good effect, it's rare not to see a couple panthers in a Black-ops gang. 900 dps is useful when you want quick kills.
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
599
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Posted - 2013.08.22 20:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Ships & Modules. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1464
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 20:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:Come on you lovely people, let's talk about the Sin!
Good gawd, why!?!??!!?!? "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.08.22 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'll play along and speculate. This could go wide and far.
T2 battleships are something CCP is not satisfied with, at all. The roles are very undefined for marauders which are basically "better pve battleships". BLOPS are portal generators.
It is obvious something drastic will be done to both, probably along the lines of command ship changes but even more drastic.
Guess: GÇó Marauders get an ammo bay for prolonged campaigns. 10000m3 of cap boosters, ammo etc. They might possibly gain some PVP utility, a stronger EHP tank for example. Maybe warp strenght bonus? GÇó Blops take the route of widow as primarily ewar battleships. They retain the portaling ability and also gain an ultra strong racial ewar bonus. They gain the ability to use covops cloak. Think strong ECM (caldari), 100km webs (minmatar), 50km neuts (amarr), and GÇó Sin becomes a drone focused ultra long range sensor dampening battleship. The agility bonuses are swapped for damp optimal and strenght bonus. It gets used primarily as sentry sniping dampener in stealth bomber gangs. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.08.22 21:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Spod wrote:I'll play along and speculate. This could go wide and far.
T2 battleships are something CCP is not satisfied with, at all. The roles are very undefined for marauders which are basically "better pve battleships". BLOPS are portal generators.
It is obvious something drastic will be done to both, probably along the lines of command ship changes but even more drastic.
Guess: GÇó Marauders get an ammo bay for prolonged campaigns. 10000m3 of cap boosters, ammo etc. They might possibly gain some PVP utility, a stronger EHP tank for example. Maybe warp strenght bonus? GÇó Blops take the route of widow as primarily ewar battleships. They retain the portaling ability and also gain an ultra strong racial ewar bonus. They gain the ability to use covops cloak. Think strong ECM (caldari), 100km webs (minmatar), 50km neuts (amarr), and GÇó Sin becomes a drone focused ultra long range sensor dampening battleship. The agility bonuses are swapped for damp optimal and strenght bonus. It gets used primarily as sentry sniping dampener in stealth bomber gangs. I want this. All of it.
Don't forget Drone Creep: All T2 Battleships will get beefier drone bays.
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Vrenth
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
28
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Posted - 2013.08.22 23:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:The Spod wrote:I'll play along and speculate. This could go wide and far.
T2 battleships are something CCP is not satisfied with, at all. The roles are very undefined for marauders which are basically "better pve battleships". BLOPS are portal generators.
It is obvious something drastic will be done to both, probably along the lines of command ship changes but even more drastic.
Guess: GÇó Marauders get an ammo bay for prolonged campaigns. 10000m3 of cap boosters, ammo etc. They might possibly gain some PVP utility, a stronger EHP tank for example. Maybe warp strenght bonus? GÇó Blops take the route of widow as primarily ewar battleships. They retain the portaling ability and also gain an ultra strong racial ewar bonus. They gain the ability to use covops cloak. Think strong ECM (caldari), 100km webs (minmatar), 50km neuts (amarr), and GÇó Sin becomes a drone focused ultra long range sensor dampening battleship. The agility bonuses are swapped for damp optimal and strenght bonus. It gets used primarily as sentry sniping dampener in stealth bomber gangs. I want this. All of it. Don't forget Drone Creep: All T2 Battleships will get beefier drone bays.
I see no negative side effects of 100km webs and 50km neuts from a BS hull used in small gang warfare >_>
Also, those you mentioned are not racial EWAR. Minmitar is target painting and Amarr is tracking disruption. |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 05:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
The range could be a bit overkill. Thing is, -to put it on field- competes with recons directly. Being a tanky ewar ship would not really be the BLOPS role either. The recon competiton also would make a single focused role fit better: sin with superdamps vs. arazu with damps and point range.
Neuts just make sense in the playstyle and because armageddon. Tracking disruption doesn't really fit black ops style as well, and td's on a BS hull... Neuts just make more sense to me. Webs could as well be target painters, but TPs would have to be really buffed on the hull. It sounds like a good idea though, because it would not compete with rapier and it would increase torpedo damage of sb's.
As a side note, BLOPS fuel bay should get a buff :) |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Re-iterated guess on black ops:
All ships approx. 700dps on the standard gank config All ships covert cloaky All ships weak on tank
GÇó minmatar target painter bonused GÇó caldari stronger ecm strenght GÇó amarr bonused neut range GÇó gallente bonused sensor damps
Alternatively: GÇó gallente long point range bonus (officer points :) GÇó minmatar long webs (officer webs :) |
Seetesh
ENEBRIATED MINERS Ltd
68
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Posted - 2013.08.23 07:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well if they were to be fitted with a covert ops cloak, the DPS output would have to be adjusted. |
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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2013.08.23 08:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yes. Now going covert cloak would sort of make sense, but the threat is that BLOPS obsolete everything as covert gank boats. This could be offset with poor maneuverability: getting decloaked at gates, slow on the tackle.
Another obvious role would be a high dps covert ship with no ewar - kind of a black ops titan. |
Seraph Castillon
Justified Chaos
95
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Posted - 2013.08.23 08:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Spod wrote:Yes. Now going covert cloak would sort of make sense, but the threat is that BLOPS obsolete everything as covert gank boats. The fact that they take half a minute to lock anything may help with that.
Giving BLOPS a covert ops cloak might make it too easy to move around cloaky gangs. (Start with a group of BLOBS that travel with the gang until it's their turn to bridge. Leave one behind at every intermediate system.) So I don't think that'll happen. |
Tyrone Viliana
Nova Echo SWGR Military Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 09:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Spod wrote:Re-iterated guess on black ops:
All ships approx. 700dps on the standard gank config All ships covert cloaky All ships weak on tank
GÇó minmatar target painter bonused GÇó caldari stronger ecm strenght GÇó amarr bonused neut range GÇó gallente bonused sensor damps
Alternatively: GÇó gallente long point range bonus (officer points :) GÇó minmatar long webs (officer webs :)
I think this is a decent Idea. I would actually get a Black Ops BS if this was the case instead of speeding around in a T3. I could see the use in a Super stealthy Drone flinging Sensor damp Potato. We may not have the Biggest guns, or the tankiest Shields and we make our ships out of Duct Tape and Glass but.....
I forgot my point, still GO MINMATAR |
Seetesh
ENEBRIATED MINERS Ltd
69
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 11:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Perhaps increasing the time it takes them to also align after jumping a gate. But I would like to see them more in an ewar role along with logistics perhaps the ability to refit at them. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1156
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Seraph Castillon wrote:Giving BLOPS a covert ops cloak might make it too easy to move around cloaky gangs. (Start with a group of BLOBS that travel with the gang until it's their turn to bridge. Leave one behind at every intermediate system.) So I don't think that'll happen.
Wouldn't be any more OP or easy than it is with titans even when those also jump in to enemy territory (happens more often you can think of)
The 125% useless speed bonus when cloak should just be scrap and give BLOPs the covert cloak. Larger fuel bay and less consumption for bridging, eventually let it bridge conventional ships but at higher fuel cost and at shorter distances.
This couldn't be bad for pvp, destruction, chaos and all mighty good things that make eve so good. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
487
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Posted - 2013.08.23 14:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
I saw a Sin once.. it dropped from a freighter kill in lowsec. I hope to see a live one on the field in my lifetime. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
390
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 18:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
no
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas
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ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1844
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Posted - 2013.08.23 21:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Klymer wrote:no
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas
You owe me mucho dollar. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
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