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Vaal Hadren
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2013.08.23 11:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't see how next to the other HAC's (which look to be awesome +1 there) that leaving the Zealot alone can at all be justified.
Thus as the window closes, I'm forced to post this.
How about instead of this:
ZEALOT
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty
Amarr Cruiser Bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
We see this:
ZEALOT
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty
Amarr Cruiser Bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (like a T1 Omen - and somewhat addressing the severe cap issues by rolling the RoF DPS into this)
Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range 7.5 bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking (as befits a dedicated one-trick TII laser turret ship with a plethora of hard counters)
I think this ship also deserves either a modest speed boost or an EHP increase. Zealot was the 'fast HAC' previously. Since the T1, Navy Cruiser and upcoming 'other HAC' changes this will no longer be the case. Leaving that alone would also thus result in a 'thematic nerf' to what was already a quite nichey ship. If you are intent on not increasing its speed (as I must confess the new Navy Omen now fulfills the role of kiting cruiser king - fair enough) then please consider raising its EHP to justify its classical Amarrian nature and to further distinguish it from its Navy brother (which threatens to completely out-class it).
^ This is extremely modest and tbh, I think the hull deserves even more play with the Cap/Grid/CPU/etc. But as it stands currently my "hull bonuses per level" suggestion above should be a complete no-brainer. Surely all must concur as to the reasonableness and necessity of this?
Disclaimer: For those not exactly clear, the Zealot is receiving no attention at all (alone among all the HACs) aside from the New Role Bonus (and very welcome HAC-Wide Sensor Strength + Targeting Range buff).
CCP Rise, are you reading?
Thank you.
:\ |
Vaal Hadren
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2013.08.23 15:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bump.
>.> |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
458
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Posted - 2013.08.23 15:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
The tracking bonus would infringe on Phantasm territory....
Also the eagle has been left to rot aswell .. and the muninn is also very niche Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1238
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Posted - 2013.08.23 15:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:The tracking bonus would infringe on Phantasm territory....
Also the eagle has been left to rot aswell .. and the muninn is also very niche
i would agree with you if anyone used the phantasm There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
458
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Posted - 2013.08.23 15:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Harvey James wrote:The tracking bonus would infringe on Phantasm territory....
Also the eagle has been left to rot aswell .. and the muninn is also very niche i would agree with you if anyone used the phantasm
it will when it gets buffed i assure you Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Vaal Hadren
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2013.08.23 16:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Are you guys serious?
That's like looking at the Cerberus changes and saying "Naa, can't do that, that would impinge on the Sacrilege."
(Hint, One is tanky armor missile and the other is tanky shield missile - Cerb gets a drone bay too now)
The Phantasm can be addressed when the Pirate ships get done. (Hint, you don't armor tank a Phantasm and a Phantasm has a Drone Bay). Besides, gone are the days when laser hulls didn't get tracking bonuses.
It's the future of the Zealot that's at stake here.
Tell me what YOU would do with a '5 Laser Turret and that's it' ship? This is no T1 we're talking about. Think about it.
The Eagle has at least seen changes (+115 Power Grid, for one)
The Munnin has at least seen changes (+1 Low Slot, lost a utility High but among Cruiser roles that's trending) .
You can't buff the entire field (from the frigate line up) and expect a previously 'okay to merely decent' ship to remain competitive (or even desirable).
You know what a Zealot is? Know a T1 Omen pulls the same DPS now? Know the Navy Omen IS 'the new Zealot'?
Which other HAC could get reliably solo'd by any T1 frigate?
Which HAC has as its direct counter a 6 day old in a Crucifier with two drones?
So, what should be (and once was as intended) the ultimate Amarrian Cruiser Sized Turret Only Boat doesn't get a drone bay, a utility high, a spare mid slot for even a web and no tracking bonuses to the worst tracking guns in the game and goes from being at least 'fast' to near the back of the pack on speed, overnight?
What?
Disclaimer: I'm not asking for a drone bay, a utility high or a spare mid slot - that would be a 'radical' change. That might even be biased and reaching. I'm down with the uniquely one-trick nature of the Zealot. Just make it at least good and distinct at that one trick.
How is this not reasonable?
I remain baffled and kinda horrified.
:\ |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
459
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Posted - 2013.08.23 16:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
well i imagine with its range a tracking bonus would be OP combined.. drones would make sense as a close range protection thing against frigs maybe a utility high for a neut but they can't make it compete with the Nomen or you would obsolete that ship.
It's in much the same position as the eagle and to a lesser extent the muninn since it has drones but they are all in the same position of being pinned into a sniper role only Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Liam Inkuras
Justified Chaos
411
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Posted - 2013.08.23 17:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think that rolling the tracking bonus into a ship that already has such fantastic damage projection would be a little overpowered. You can already hit perfectly out past 40k, and by adding a tracking bonus you're making it damn near impossible for tacklers to actually hold you down. Essentially turning the Zealot into a large Coercer (please try holding one down with a scram and web). Having a ship that can nearly perfectly apply its DPS anywhere within 40km would make its hard counter TD's, and we already see far too many of those. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
33
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Posted - 2013.08.23 18:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Don't forget the incoming Beam Lasers buff in all of this.
Vaal Hadren wrote:You know what a Zealot is? Know a T1 Omen pulls the same DPS now? Know the Navy Omen IS 'the new Zealot'?
Which other HAC could get reliably solo'd by any T1 frigate?
Which HAC has as its direct counter a 6 day old in a Crucifier with two drones?
So, what should be (and once was as intended) the ultimate Amarrian Cruiser Sized Turret Only Boat doesn't get a drone bay, a utility high, a spare mid slot for even a web and no tracking bonuses to the worst tracking guns in the game and goes from being at least 'fast' to near the back of the pack on speed, overnight?
What are you even talking about? The Omen does the same DPS? Even the Navy Omen isn't going to be doing equal DPS to the Zealot because the ROF bonus and damage bonus stack multiplicatively meaning it gets 6.25% more damage before *taking into account that it's down a turret*. It also has better fittings, has better cap use, and way better cap recharge.
As for the T1 frigate claim I'm going to go with anyone dump enough to get caught out by a decent frigate pilot without a web and scram, which you should be able to comfortably fit along with a prop-mod, though honestly I'd peg the Zealot as a better small-gang boat than a solo-roam one. Since that's pretty much where Armor HAC's made a name for themselves (you know, the whole AHAC Gang fleet concept that's still stomping all over BS fleets even after 2+ years) the Zealot is unlikely to see people mass abandon it in favor of the Sacrilege or the Munin, especially since the latter is losing a utility high. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
150
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bumping is not allowed in this forum.
Forum rule 14. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Katia Echerie
D4RK M00N RISING Standing United.
21
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Posted - 2013.08.23 21:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hmm.... Not so sure on this one. There is nothing wrong with the Zealot within a fleet context. As a solo boat however its absolute dog poop. Perhaps giving it a flight of lights would be a better counter to frigates than the tracking bonus (which frankly would be useless against an AB frigate). |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
34
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Posted - 2013.08.23 21:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Katia Echerie wrote:Hmm.... Not so sure on this one. There is nothing wrong with the Zealot within a fleet context. As a solo boat however its absolute dog poop. Perhaps giving it a flight of lights would be a better counter to frigates than the tracking bonus (which frankly would be useless against an AB frigate).
There's nothing anywhere that says ships have to be great at both solo and fleet combat, and there are plenty that are amazing at one and lousy at the other and that's fine. |
Doddy
Dark-Rising
877
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Posted - 2013.08.23 22:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zealot is already good (best sniper hac, best ahac), tracking bonus just makes it op. Given that it was the only hac anyone flew it makes sense to at least see where it sits after the others are buffed before doing something. To be honest all it needs is some light drones and its golden. |
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