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Deliram
Nerdvana srl
0
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I tried the seach but i only found over 1 year olds threads.. never posted on this part of the forum before so sorry for anything :p
I have seen some post about this in the past. Now that the Command ships and the assault cruiser get a nicely revamp i think there is a new problem for Gallente pilots like myself: Mainly gallente ships pilots who focused heavly on drones.
For us, now that the ishtar and the Eos get finally better stats for they drones there is no reason to use the proteus. Maybe i mistake, but i thought that the role of a T3 cruiser was to be able(less skills requirement and quite more money) to match the stats of almost any kind of cruiser hull any given race had with the proper fit.
The 25 additional bandwidth can be placed on any subsystem i don't really care. Can be one of the already 2 drone-related subsystem, or a new one like the remote armor repairer subsystem. That would be great opening for new usefull fits too..
So what you think? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5589
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
The role of T3 cruisers is to do multiple things at below the level specialized T2 ships do them. That doesn't mean you won't get your extra dronebay, but just saying the role of T3 ships isn't quite what you are trying to make it out to be. If you want to do just 1 narrow thing extremely well, a T3 ship propably shouldn't be your first choice. |
Isaac Collins
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
86
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah the proteus is really weak.
Get out. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7659
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 20:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can't wait for the T3 nerfs. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2928
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I can't wait for the T3 nerfs.
Please elaborate.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Deliram
Nerdvana srl
0
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't see the part in my message were i stated that the proteus is Weak, or more in general T3 cruisers are weak. In fact i was saying quite the opposite. Don't change the subject and read, that's if you're able, please.
Destination SkillQueue wrote:The role of T3 cruisers is to do multiple things at below the level specialized T2 ships do them. That doesn't mean you won't get your extra dronebay, but just saying the role of T3 ships isn't quite what you are trying to make it out to be. If you want to do just 1 narrow thing extremely well, a T3 ship propably shouldn't be your first choice. As others didn't notice to note in fact in many ways T3 cruiser are more expensive, stronger versions of T2 assaults. I mean, you can fit them for cover that role and they will most likely end up with more tank and DPS especially for missions or rats..anomalies..ecc... The real thing is, if you're specialized in rails and blasters is true for the Proteus too. But not if your specialization are the drones, or if you like to play with them. And so i like the proteus but i can't use it for the most important aspect of my game, because i will have to modify my playing style too much, or lose too much dps-and-or-tanking. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1844
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 20:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can't wait for the T3 nerfs. Please elaborate. Mr Epeen
Aye, elaborate. T3s aren't working as intended, just like blackops and marauders. You're going to see less of a nerf and more of a complete overhaul, if CCP are half the company I believe them to be. Maybe something along the lines of swapping fit in space in order to make 'em truly pragmatic like they were meant to be? In exchange for making them weaker in these swapped roles than their T2 counterparts, of course. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Whitehound
1917
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Posted - 2013.08.23 21:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
I cannot wait for people posting in the right forum. It will be so awesome. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Ambassador Spock
Starfleet Academy Red Squad
10
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Posted - 2013.08.23 21:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm a drone man, always have been always will be. Started with the Imicus, sold my free Catalyst to get an Algos, loved my Vexor, and so on until now my primary ship is the Rattlesnake. I recently finished training for my first t3, and I chose the Proteus, even though I heard the drone Proteus sucks. My thoughts have been very positive so far though - I still get 600+ dps with Garde II's and it tanks like a beast. Yeah, getting a fifth drone would be awesome, but being limited to 4 sentries/heavies has not made the ship worthless by any means.
-á-- -á- Ambassador Spock
"Vulcans never bluff." |
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
200
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Posted - 2013.08.23 21:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd like for every T3 to be able to fit its racial doomsday at 50% effectiveness. After all, it is supposed to do everything, just not as well as a ship explicitly designed for it. |
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
880
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Posted - 2013.08.23 22:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:As others didn't notice to note in fact in many ways T3 cruiser are more expensive, stronger versions of T2 assaults. I mean, you can fit them for cover that role and they will most likely end up with more tank and DPS especially for missions or rats..anomalies..ecc... The real thing is, if you're specialized in rails and blasters is true for the Proteus too. But not if your specialization are the drones, or if you like to play with them. And so i like the proteus but i can't use it for the most important aspect of my game, because i will have to modify my playing style too much, or lose too much dps-and-or-tanking.
Just because something was CCP's intention doesn't mean that's how it turned out. As CCP has admitted, T3s are awfully balanced.
They are supposed to do what Destination Skillqueue said, and they presumably will once they are rebalanced. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7666
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 22:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can't wait for the T3 nerfs. Please elaborate. Mr Epeen
They will land somewhere between T1 and T2.
A big nerf is guaranteed. |
Deliram
Nerdvana srl
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 23:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:As others didn't notice to note in fact in many ways T3 cruiser are more expensive, stronger versions of T2 assaults. I mean, you can fit them for cover that role and they will most likely end up with more tank and DPS especially for missions or rats..anomalies..ecc... The real thing is, if you're specialized in rails and blasters is true for the Proteus too. But not if your specialization are the drones, or if you like to play with them. And so i like the proteus but i can't use it for the most important aspect of my game, because i will have to modify my playing style too much, or lose too much dps-and-or-tanking. Just because something was CCP's intention doesn't mean that's how it turned out. As CCP has admitted, T3s are awfully balanced. They are supposed to do what Destination Skillqueue said, and they presumably will once they are rebalanced. Ah, i didn't know CCP stated T3 went out far too powerfull in respect of what they tought. Thanks for clarify that. But anyway i don't see how a 300-400 mil cruiser can't have the same bandwidth of a Ishtar. Counting mid slots, the other ishtar bonuses and improvement i think ishtar will be way far better than the proteus for missions/ratting ecc anyway even if you throw 25 more bandwidth in the proteus. Even now with a ishtar i can do missions faster and better than with the proteus, after will be ridiculous the difference. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
4177
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 23:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
all the t3 hate makes me queasy. personally, i like them where they are. |
Rengerel en Distel
1785
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Instead of trying to make the proteus do what you think you want, pick one of the other ships that already does it better.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
93
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Greetings
Don't mind me, just moving to a more appropriate location. Continue with the discussion.
On On ISD Flidais Asagiri Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Anuminas Alland
Aspergus Carebearnaise
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Deliram wrote:Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:As others didn't notice to note in fact in many ways T3 cruiser are more expensive, stronger versions of T2 assaults. I mean, you can fit them for cover that role and they will most likely end up with more tank and DPS especially for missions or rats..anomalies..ecc... The real thing is, if you're specialized in rails and blasters is true for the Proteus too. But not if your specialization are the drones, or if you like to play with them. And so i like the proteus but i can't use it for the most important aspect of my game, because i will have to modify my playing style too much, or lose too much dps-and-or-tanking. Just because something was CCP's intention doesn't mean that's how it turned out. As CCP has admitted, T3s are awfully balanced. They are supposed to do what Destination Skillqueue said, and they presumably will once they are rebalanced. Ah, i didn't know CCP stated T3 went out far too powerfull in respect of what they tought. Thanks for clarify that. But anyway i don't see how a 300-400 mil cruiser can't have the same bandwidth of a Ishtar. Counting mid slots, the other ishtar bonuses and improvement i think ishtar will be way far better than the proteus for missions/ratting ecc anyway even if you throw 25 more bandwidth in the proteus. Even now with a ishtar i can do missions faster and better than with the proteus, after will be ridiculous the difference.
If you are trained to fly an Ishtar - which is cheaper than a Proteus - and you are doing missions faster and better, then what is the problem here?
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1473
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Posted - 2013.08.24 02:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Deliram wrote:Ah, i didn't know CCP stated T3 went out far too powerfull in respect of what they tought. Thanks for clarify that. But anyway i don't see how a 300-400 mil cruiser can't have the same bandwidth of a Ishtar. Counting mid slots, the other ishtar bonuses and improvement i think ishtar will be way far better than the proteus for missions/ratting ecc anyway even if you throw 25 more bandwidth in the proteus. Even now with a ishtar i can do missions faster and better than with the proteus, after will be ridiculous the difference.
Try flying the Proteus with MWD/Ogres IIs. Ishtar can't pull it off; Protues can. If you want to use sentries, by all means use the dedicated sentry boat. |
Bigg Gun
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
31
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Posted - 2013.08.24 04:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
of course ishtar can pull it off, done it many times. In fact my regular drone loadout includes heavy and sentry and light.
IMO in the drone config proteus should have more drone bay ( around 300) and have a higher drone damage multiplier to compensate for the fact it can only launch 4. Something like 12.5% per level instead of 10.
So there |
Deliram
Nerdvana srl
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 11:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
A proteus as it stand now is great to do Rats for example i agree and yes i use heavyes. But for anomalies and missions dominix/ishtar can do it 10 times better, at least if you're fully specialized in drone, and maybe only has access to t2 hybrid gun without everything at lvl 5.
I don't want to use the proteus as a sentry drone deployer, i'm not even saying it has a small drone bay, i can live with that. I'm just saying that AFTER the patch there will be no reason to use the proteus for mission/ratting. The difference will be huge and at least for me the proteus will only be used for cover ops and sometimes WH space. While, if you use Rails more than drones... you will get it viable enought thanks to the boost to rails pve. I'm wrong? So why making a type of proteus more viable for pve, and making another one that already wasn't too powerfull less viable in comparison?
Look at other races, i don't know them well beside the Tengu. Giving you a free cruiser hull T2 or T3, for missions and PVE what you will use? I think i will keep the tengu for caldari... Amarr and Minmtar hows for you?
And btw i'm not asking a flat bonus to every type of proteus, the 25 bandwidth can be added for example to the defence remote armor repair, in fact not making the most common pvp/pve fit more powerfull and .. it makes sense to me. |
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Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
82
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 16:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I can't wait for the T3 nerfs. I can't wait for the Megathron nerf. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
4181
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
i have an idea. instead of nerfing ships that apparently outperform specialized ships...why not buff the under performing specialized ships so that they aren't being outdone anymore? problem solved. everyone happy. |
PI Polly
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 18:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:..problem solved. everyone happy.
And that's the main reason, why ships etc, will be bought down to level, instead of being pumped up. Impossible to please everyone in EVE.. Trolls will troll and whiners will whine. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
204
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 23:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:i have an idea. instead of nerfing ships that apparently outperform specialized ships...why not buff the under performing specialized ships so that they aren't being outdone anymore? problem solved. everyone happy.
why dont you google the term powercreep and then realize why your suggestion is not too smart.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3118
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 01:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Deliram wrote:I'm just saying that AFTER the patch there will be no reason to use the proteus for mission/ratting. The difference will be huge The Proteus will still have an edge over the Ishtar with regards to tank (10% per level bonus to reps), potential DPS (load all those low slots with Drone Damage Amps), and flexibility (unless you hardcore min/maxed your Proteus, you can change your PvE setup to PvP with a simple swap of subsystems and mods to create a ridiculous buffer tanked drone boat).
Deliram wrote:Look at other races, i don't know them well beside the Tengu. Giving you a free cruiser hull T2 or T3, for missions and PVE what you will use? I think i will keep the tengu for caldari... Amarr and Minmtar hows for you? The Tengu has always been above and beyond better than any T2 Caldari cruiser in PvE... simply because it has a VASTLY better sustained tank coupled with decent damage at range. After the patch the Cerberus may be able to pull off more DPS... but it will still lack the tank of the Tengu. The Legion can pull off a super tanky Zealot or Sacrilege fit. This will not change after the patch. The Loki... euuhhhhhhhhh... it was never really favored for PvE. And both T2 Minmatar cruisers are not either. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1169
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 11:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Deliram wrote:I tried the seach but i only found over 1 year olds threads.. never posted on this part of the forum before so sorry for anything :p
I have seen some post about this in the past. Now that the Command ships and the assault cruiser get a nicely revamp i think there is a new problem for Gallente pilots like myself: Mainly gallente ships pilots who focused heavly on drones.
For us, now that the ishtar and the Eos get finally better stats for they drones there is no reason to use the proteus. Maybe i mistake, but i thought that the role of a T3 cruiser was to be able(less skills requirement and quite more money) to match the stats of almost any kind of cruiser hull any given race had with the proper fit.
The 25 additional bandwidth can be placed on any subsystem i don't really care. Can be one of the already 2 drone-related subsystem, or a new one like the remote armor repairer subsystem. That would be great opening for new usefull fits too..
So what you think?
T3's should in all logic be revamp after CS/Hacs these being considered as "specialists" then get some data from TQ and get some figures on how to improve/nerf some of the T3 abilities. Proteus drone sub is quite bad, at least far too bad for a T3 hull and deserves a lot of attention on this specific sub specially after the huge buff ishtar is getting, you'll have to wait about a year or so to see this happen.
T3's rebalance shouldn't be based on emotional posting from some players, and some seem really butt hurt when it comes to those, but rather after getting serious data from new HACs/CS performances, eventually but this is only an option consider players opinions from all sides which I strongly doubt. The first idea it comes to me after these "specialist ships" rebalance is those T3's going no where but to the dusty part of your hangar for many years to come, because no one wants to train more SP and put FAR MORE isk on something not worth the buck, then the only thing it matters for numbers fleets is how well the cheapo throwaway stacks, guess who will win the opinion "war"? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1170
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 11:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:i have an idea. instead of nerfing ships that apparently outperform specialized ships...why not buff the under performing specialized ships so that they aren't being outdone anymore? problem solved. everyone happy.
By all logic this is what you can expect when it comes to balance but sometimes, and this might as well be a matter of opinion vs current situation (not the person), well things are not so clear or so specialized as we could expect.
HACs have one and single role, dps dps dps dps so, the point being they must have about 30% more base tank than T1 version (figures based on some current numbers), this tank is supported by also better resists increasing global EHP quite significantly before links or/and implants. Then the "thing" needs tools to achieve its job that is DPS, tools to apply it and bonus to do it.
Current version of HACs seems overall good, not perfect because you can see we're at 120+pages about it and opinions are so different except in certain cases that must be quite interesting and fun to be the one doing it, a lot of passion and interest in those pages shows how important this specific ship class rebalance will be.
ATM without any further change to T3's, with simple HACs rebalance T3's will already be outperformed in specific DPS role for miles and miles away. Command sub/CShips bonus changes will also put CS on their right place and this is good, really good despite making me a sad panda because I'm strongly against T3's providing boosts, indeed training time for a Command ship and a T3 is really not the same at all not even close when T3/Hac are pretty close. T3's should be able to somewhat do spec cruiser size ships job but certainly not T2 Battlecruisers one, but again it's just my opinion. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Deliram
Nerdvana srl
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 11:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:T3's should in all logic be revamp after CS/Hacs these being considered as "specialists" then get some data from TQ and get some figures on how to improve/nerf some of the T3 abilities. Proteus drone sub is quite bad, at least far too bad for a T3 hull and deserves a lot of attention on this specific sub specially after the huge buff ishtar is getting, you'll have to wait about a year or so to see this happen.
T3's rebalance shouldn't be based on emotional posting from some players, and some seem really butt hurt when it comes to those, but rather after getting serious data from new HACs/CS performances, eventually but this is only an option consider players opinions from all sides which I strongly doubt. The first idea it comes to me after these "specialist ships" rebalance is those T3's going no where but to the dusty part of your hangar for many years to come, because no one wants to train more SP and put FAR MORE isk on something not worth the buck, then the only thing it matters for numbers fleets is how well the cheapo throwaway stacks, guess who will win the opinion "war"? Yep that's exactly what i fear, instead of having a ship that ADD something specific(new ishtar) we will have a ship that will sobstitue completly another(ishtar vs proteus) for many things. In anomalies-missions-ratting you can have enoght DPS at the right distance to almost ignore the tanking, with the ishtar post patch. That means, more slot for for drone damage amplifier, and since it's already has 5 heavy/sentry it will go way off the dps chart in comparison to the proteus. And in this things the tanking once you move over 600 dps is not a concern. Having that extra heavy drone will make the proteus still viable, yet inferior, to the isthar. But it will be safer to play in 0.0 with the proteus thanks to the interdiction nullifier AND since you will go without many drone link(because you can't pull out a very good sentry drone sniper fit) you will have more high slot for various utility, while having enought tank. Ishtar will still be better by a great margin, but at least proteus will have something else to offer to appeal in some conditions.
The proteus have a better tanking, but only if it's not going all the way over the dps. Ishtar will have over double the effective dps of a proteus while standing at enought distance to don't care about tanking. If with a proteus you fit too many ampl you will have not much tanking and still do less effective dps than the ishtar.
Well.. i guess we should just wait and see what will happen as Acht Scultz is saying :-)
thanks for all the opinions anyway, it cleared my mind a bit about T2- T3 difference! |
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