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Author |
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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10753
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
There needs to be another war soon. Peace makes for little reason to log in but to amass space money. Having the spoils of war is great, and everyone appreciates them; but, most of the fun in this curiously excellent spaceship sandbox is in the actual taking rather than in the having. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Na Und
Galactronics
38
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thank you for sharing. Is there a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. |
Sakaron Hefdover
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Go shoot something then. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10756
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Na Und wrote:Thank you for sharing. Is there a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. I realize this isn't exactly a new sentiment, and that's kind of my point.
Most of the entities in this game claim to enjoy fighting to some degree more than they enjoy the trappings of success. Battle reports across the game love to crow about good fights, about killboard stats, and so on. While those particular metrics of fun or success do not generally matter to me or to most goons the alternative is a boring peace where the only action in a given day is a small roaming gang that comes through and leaves before anyone can be bothered to report it much less form up and fight it.
Fear, according to Frank Herbert's Dune, is the mind-killer. I disagree: it's boredom.
This is a game about spaceships and space men shooting each other in space! We should be moving on from the Fountain Campaign to the next. War brings with it multiple fleets per day, of various doctrines, that everyone from a day old newbie to a bitter veteran can join or command. That sort of thing is good for the game, good for the economy, good for the press, and so on. In short, everyone wins when everyone is fighting (except for the loser, but no one likes a loser anyway). War brings with it a reason to log in, a reason to have several covops and scout accounts subscribed, and in general things to do that are much more emergent and engaging than PVE content can provide.
So let's have a war! Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Obvious Cyno
The Drunken Empire Fatal Ascension
65
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why not deploy CFC squads south to mess around in catch with triple A and tribe? Or Providence with NCDotte? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1152
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Na Und wrote:Thank you for sharing. Is there a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. I realize this isn't exactly a new sentiment, and that's kind of my point. Most of the entities in this game claim to enjoy fighting to some degree more than they enjoy the trappings of success. Battle reports across the game love to crow about good fights, about killboard stats, and so on. While those particular metrics of fun or success do not generally matter to me or to most goons the alternative is a boring peace where the only action in a given day is a small roaming gang that comes through and leaves before anyone can be bothered to report it much less form up and fight it. Fear, according to Frank Herbert's Dune, is the mind-killer. I disagree: it's boredom. This is a game about spaceships and space men shooting each other in space! We should be moving on from the Fountain Campaign to the next. War brings with it multiple fleets per day, of various doctrines, that everyone from a day old newbie to a bitter veteran can join or command. That sort of thing is good for the game, good for the economy, good for the press, and so on. In short, everyone wins when everyone is fighting (except for the loser, but no one likes a loser anyway). War brings with it a reason to log in, a reason to have several covops and scout accounts subscribed, and in general things to do that are much more emergent and engaging than PVE content can provide. So let's have a war!
Talk to the business managers running your alliance. They will tell you when the next income stream presents it for exploitation.
Juts hope you are getting your fair share of the rewards, or do you let said business managers tell you what is "fair"? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10756
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sakaron Hefdover wrote:Go shoot something then.
EDIT: I was a bit vague there, Most of the content is created by action, not sitting around. Stop being lead and start leading.
Yourself, a group, whatever, no point sitting around and doing nothing. Go live up the goonies name and kill something
Day trips across several regions of space to harass an enemy are not fun for either party.
For the aggressor, it is a long and boring slog across a huge expanse of space with the promise of maybe. Maybe the aggressor will find and kill some renters who are ratting or mining; maybe the aggressor will stumble across a home defense fleet and have a brawl; or, most likely, everyone will safe up and ignore the aggressor until they get bored and go home. This is a somewhat infrequent occurrence, exactly because it stands so likely to end in boredom. Some groups, both within my alliance and in hostile alliance, undertake covert (or overt) deployments to enemy space and hotdrop them; but, even that is a bunch of sitting around and waiting for something to maybe happen, and it is very restrictive for what else someone can be doing. Newbies especially, and those people with only a single account, are hard-pressed to find something fun to do during peacetime exactly because of this.
War on the other hand is entirely different.
Once a war effort has been mobilized, there are things to do all day every day. Most days during the Fountain Campaign there were a dozen or more fleets that were formed up, and every form up was either to attack an objective or fight a hostile fleet. You could call a war theater a target rich environment: once deployed, on a large scale, there are enough things to shoot and enough people nearby and ready to shoot them that things can be shot more often than they cannot. Whether a member of the aggressor or defender forces, a player in a war theater has things to do. And because there are things to do, more people show up and in turn there occur even more things to do.
War is great, because everyone from brand new players to seasoned line members to fleet commanders have something to do pretty much whenever they log in. Peace is boring in that the opposite is true: unless you count shooting red crosses or mining to be "something to do," there is very little to be done during peacetime. And that is mostly a consequence of how big space is: as stated above, a day trip into hostile space is a several-region trek which just seems an insurmountable wall of apathy and effort, especially when there is no clear objective other than, "maybe we will muck about and kill a few dudes but most likely they will ignore us and we will go home bored."
So let's have a war! Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10756
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Na Und wrote:Thank you for sharing. Is there a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. I realize this isn't exactly a new sentiment, and that's kind of my point. Most of the entities in this game claim to enjoy fighting to some degree more than they enjoy the trappings of success. Battle reports across the game love to crow about good fights, about killboard stats, and so on. While those particular metrics of fun or success do not generally matter to me or to most goons the alternative is a boring peace where the only action in a given day is a small roaming gang that comes through and leaves before anyone can be bothered to report it much less form up and fight it. Fear, according to Frank Herbert's Dune, is the mind-killer. I disagree: it's boredom. This is a game about spaceships and space men shooting each other in space! We should be moving on from the Fountain Campaign to the next. War brings with it multiple fleets per day, of various doctrines, that everyone from a day old newbie to a bitter veteran can join or command. That sort of thing is good for the game, good for the economy, good for the press, and so on. In short, everyone wins when everyone is fighting (except for the loser, but no one likes a loser anyway). War brings with it a reason to log in, a reason to have several covops and scout accounts subscribed, and in general things to do that are much more emergent and engaging than PVE content can provide. So let's have a war! Talk to the business managers running your alliance. They will tell you when the next income stream presents it for exploitation. Juts hope you are getting your fair share of the rewards, or do you let said business managers tell you what is "fair"? Beyond having enough space money to keep all of my account subscribed via PLEX (~6B/mo) and pay for whatever ships I need or want, there is very little utility in having even more money. Who cares if I don't get a "fair" share of the spoils? The only thing I would do with more money than I have would be to invest it into intra-Alliance loans so that I would then have even more money that I could only possibly use to invest into other things, ad infinitum. To what end? Having even more money wouldn't exactly change my gameplay options. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
395
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:There needs to be another war soon. Peace makes for little reason to log in but to amass space money. Having the spoils of war is great, and everyone appreciates them; but, most of the fun in this curiously excellent spaceship sandbox is in the actual taking rather than in the having. Were you winning too fast? Or simply expanded faster than you could make new frenemies?
You could thank RAZOR for kicking IRC down and out of Cobalt Edge, there goes your funny-stream. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10756
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Obvious Cyno wrote:Why not deploy CFC squads south to mess around in catch with triple A and tribe? Or Providence with NCDotte? Deploying squads is a bit different than a war, in terms of logistics and scale. Squads are fun for those involved, but for the people who are not in them or who do not know about them (for example, my much-beloved newbies) they are a black box. Wars are big and flashy and everyone knows exactly what to do, even the newbies who don't know what kind of ammo to put in their warp scrambler. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
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ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1855
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote: Beyond having enough space money to keep all of my account subscribed via PLEX (~6B/mo) and pay for whatever ships I need or want, there is very little utility in having even more money. Who cares if I don't get a "fair" share of the spoils? The only thing I would do with more money than I have would be to invest it into intra-Alliance loans so that I would then have even more money that I could only possibly use to invest into other things, ad infinitum. To what end? Having even more money wouldn't exactly change my gameplay options.
So umm I dunno if you've heard but I've found a new fluctuation in isk transfer variables which allows me to double your isk and maybe triple it if you send over 1bil Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10763
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:There needs to be another war soon. Peace makes for little reason to log in but to amass space money. Having the spoils of war is great, and everyone appreciates them; but, most of the fun in this curiously excellent spaceship sandbox is in the actual taking rather than in the having. Were you winning too fast? Or simply expanded faster than you could make new frenemies? You could thank RAZOR for kicking IRC down and out of Cobalt Edge, there goes your funny-stream. I try not to blame people, because almost always I do not have full information about a situation; and, even if I did, blaming people doesn't exactly foster useful dialog.
This is not a thread about blame. This is a thread about solutions!
And there can be only one solution: War. Surely your own compatriots have more fun when they are in the midst of a war than they do when they are AFK-ratting anomalies, or fielding huge mining fleets. Regardless of the fact that our alliances are not on friendly terms, you and I are alike in that we both play this video game; and, I am willing to bet, we both find the game more engrossing and enjoyable when there are many things to do and many things to shoot. Is this not true of you, as well of me? Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10763
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote: Beyond having enough space money to keep all of my account subscribed via PLEX (~6B/mo) and pay for whatever ships I need or want, there is very little utility in having even more money. Who cares if I don't get a "fair" share of the spoils? The only thing I would do with more money than I have would be to invest it into intra-Alliance loans so that I would then have even more money that I could only possibly use to invest into other things, ad infinitum. To what end? Having even more money wouldn't exactly change my gameplay options.
So umm I dunno if you've heard but I've found a new fluctuation in isk transfer variables which allows me to double your isk and maybe triple it if you send over 1bil See above: having more isk would not afford me greater utility.
Work your space magic on someone else. Perhaps if you team up with Erotica 1, then the two of you can combine your powers of ISK-doubling to generate a reverse polarity causal loop of infinite wealth for everyone!
... At which point, I would still like a war. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
134
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
So... go talk to your superiors and Goons and get that war rolling. Shouting for it here in General Discussion won't get you anywhere. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4219
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
idgi There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10780
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:So... go talk to your superiors and Goons and get that war rolling. Shouting for it here in General Discussion won't get you anywhere. You know, for a change of pace someone else could be the aggressor. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10780
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
The Aristocrats Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Sakaron Hefdover
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Sakaron Hefdover wrote:Go shoot something then.
EDIT: I was a bit vague there, Most of the content is created by action, not sitting around. Stop being lead and start leading.
Yourself, a group, whatever, no point sitting around and doing nothing. Go live up the goonies name and kill something Day trips across several regions of space to harass an enemy are not fun for either party. For the aggressor...... ......So let's have a war!
Ah, I see your point, can't really tell you anything about starting wars, haven't got the experience of doing so myself |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10780
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Juts hope you are getting your fair share of the rewards, or do you let said business managers tell you what is "fair"?
Juts out of curiosity, what division would you think I should deserve? I realize you do not trust my space bosses to tally up the right numbers, so I would love to see your breakdown over who should be given what.
For my part in the war, I think 15% is fair. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4219
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:So... go talk to your superiors and Goons and get that war rolling. Shouting for it here in General Discussion won't get you anywhere. You know, for a change of pace someone else could be the aggressor. Well, N3 does exist to destroy GSF. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10780
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:So... go talk to your superiors and Goons and get that war rolling. Shouting for it here in General Discussion won't get you anywhere. You know, for a change of pace someone else could be the aggressor. Well, N3 does exist to destroy GSF. They came through in a HAC gang yesterday, but by the time I'd heard of it they were gone.
And this is exactly illustrative of the problem I am describing. Those guys came through looking for a fight. What did they get? I think they killed one cyno ship, and one guy in a shuttle. Had they lingered, I would have been happy to fight them. But why should they linger? They have no reason to believe that by lingering they will meet a relatively even force, and every minute they linger is another minute of boredom for them.
War fixes this by presenting the aggressor with a forward base near enough to the enemy that brawls can happen. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
395
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:This is a thread about solutions (...) only one solution: War. (...) we both find the game more engrossing and enjoyable when there are many things to do and many things to shoot. Is this not true of you, as well of me? I don't find the shooting-part to necessarily be the most exciting thing, as it is simply the culmination of the politics and continuation of diplomacy with other means. The interaction between individuals and organisations are really interesting phenomenon to me. But the question of war, from your POV, is a bit of a non-sequiter to me.
Goonswarm Federation, somewhat in contrast to its earlier appearances, has made diplomacy its forte. If you find the YT video of "Mittanis Art of War" he focuses a lot on the diplomacy side of things. All the time he spent on the meta-side of the war, espionage, resource denial, wedges etc., he also paid a lot of homage to allies and the importance of them. Correct me if I am wrong, but did GoonSwarm have as long a list of allies before 49-, over an equally long list of conquered regions, as GSF have now after Fountain? If you like war more than security, you can always learn something from Raiden. or Nothern Coalition., I'm sure.
The thing is you don't have to play the diplomacy game if you don't want to. Absorbing, removing or destroying ideological, historical or territorial enemies will soon only leave you with people you are not allowed to shoot. If you so desire to shoot people, I invite you to look at Branch, Tenal or Tribute, three regions where your territorial, historical and ideological enemies (Respectively) no longer live. If you so much want the war, and so little desire to travel across 7+ regions for it, bring it to your doorstep.
In the words of a personal hero: "Only you can prevent the wildfire (of blobs, shoot a blue today)." |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1152
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Na Und wrote:Thank you for sharing. Is there a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. I realize this isn't exactly a new sentiment, and that's kind of my point. Most of the entities in this game claim to enjoy fighting to some degree more than they enjoy the trappings of success. Battle reports across the game love to crow about good fights, about killboard stats, and so on. While those particular metrics of fun or success do not generally matter to me or to most goons the alternative is a boring peace where the only action in a given day is a small roaming gang that comes through and leaves before anyone can be bothered to report it much less form up and fight it. Fear, according to Frank Herbert's Dune, is the mind-killer. I disagree: it's boredom. This is a game about spaceships and space men shooting each other in space! We should be moving on from the Fountain Campaign to the next. War brings with it multiple fleets per day, of various doctrines, that everyone from a day old newbie to a bitter veteran can join or command. That sort of thing is good for the game, good for the economy, good for the press, and so on. In short, everyone wins when everyone is fighting (except for the loser, but no one likes a loser anyway). War brings with it a reason to log in, a reason to have several covops and scout accounts subscribed, and in general things to do that are much more emergent and engaging than PVE content can provide. So let's have a war! Talk to the business managers running your alliance. They will tell you when the next income stream presents it for exploitation. Juts hope you are getting your fair share of the rewards, or do you let said business managers tell you what is "fair"? Beyond having enough space money to keep all of my account subscribed via PLEX (~6B/mo) and pay for whatever ships I need or want, there is very little utility in having even more money. Who cares if I don't get a "fair" share of the spoils? The only thing I would do with more money than I have would be to invest it into intra-Alliance loans so that I would then have even more money that I could only possibly use to invest into other things, ad infinitum. To what end? Having even more money wouldn't exactly change my gameplay options.
Interesting...your business managers seem to have a different opinion about the acquisition of in-game wealth. Perhaps they have different uses for it than you. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10780
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Na Und wrote:Thank you for sharing. Is there a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. I realize this isn't exactly a new sentiment, and that's kind of my point. Most of the entities in this game claim to enjoy fighting to some degree more than they enjoy the trappings of success. Battle reports across the game love to crow about good fights, about killboard stats, and so on. While those particular metrics of fun or success do not generally matter to me or to most goons the alternative is a boring peace where the only action in a given day is a small roaming gang that comes through and leaves before anyone can be bothered to report it much less form up and fight it. Fear, according to Frank Herbert's Dune, is the mind-killer. I disagree: it's boredom. This is a game about spaceships and space men shooting each other in space! We should be moving on from the Fountain Campaign to the next. War brings with it multiple fleets per day, of various doctrines, that everyone from a day old newbie to a bitter veteran can join or command. That sort of thing is good for the game, good for the economy, good for the press, and so on. In short, everyone wins when everyone is fighting (except for the loser, but no one likes a loser anyway). War brings with it a reason to log in, a reason to have several covops and scout accounts subscribed, and in general things to do that are much more emergent and engaging than PVE content can provide. So let's have a war! Talk to the business managers running your alliance. They will tell you when the next income stream presents it for exploitation. Juts hope you are getting your fair share of the rewards, or do you let said business managers tell you what is "fair"? Beyond having enough space money to keep all of my account subscribed via PLEX (~6B/mo) and pay for whatever ships I need or want, there is very little utility in having even more money. Who cares if I don't get a "fair" share of the spoils? The only thing I would do with more money than I have would be to invest it into intra-Alliance loans so that I would then have even more money that I could only possibly use to invest into other things, ad infinitum. To what end? Having even more money wouldn't exactly change my gameplay options. Interesting...your business managers seem to have a different opinion about the acquisition of in-game wealth. Perhaps they have different uses for it than you. Definitely! Our business managers have to allocate funds for subsidized capitals (we're too poor to afford supercapitals), reimbursement programs, staggeringly high sov bills, fuel for jump bridges and pos, etc. As for me? A few billion ISK more per month would just increase the number in my wallet. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
455
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Don't you have your own forums that might be viewed by upper managment?
I mean there is nothing wrong telling GD, but I don't think it will acheive anything other than "Grrr Goons" posts. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10780
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Don't you have your own forums that might be viewed by upper managment?
I mean there is nothing wrong telling GD, but I don't think it will acheive anything other than "Grrr Goons" posts. I am curious as to why you think only one party (GSF) needs to be addressed here. There are numerous other entities who might choose to be the aggressor against GSF, which a post on our internal forums would not address. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1183
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Blueballing is the most effective strategy in the game. You're fighting a war right now and you don't even realize it! |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10789
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 16:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Blueballing is the most effective strategy in the game. You're fighting a war right now and you don't even realize it! I am sure that between my ten accounts I will be strung up as a war criminal on the day the Guristas Pirates finally depose us from VFK. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
Durlan Katz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 16:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Is this just a thinly veiled, "Come At Me Bro," then? |
Osileon Yoshimeru
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 16:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
tldr:
Just make some mock wars. Im sure you can sacrifice a few supers.
You said it yourself how spoils of war is great and all. Do some fleet training and burn some of that isk off while you wait for next war. You can try out new tactics and stuff you weren't really sure of doing during a real war. |
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