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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
459
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well that is what part of my sig means...
That if you remove the restriction on morality, then your deep down emotions come out. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
461
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well that is what part of my sig means...
That if you remove the restriction on morality, then your deep down emotions come out. Immoral and amoral are two entirely different things. Immoral is having no morality, being wicked or evil. If you are immoral, you know what society considers right and wrong, yet you do wrong anyway. Amoral is having no morals at all. While many acts committed in Eve are considered immoral, given the lore, backstory, the societal norms of the factions and the general nature of the game they are actually amoral.
Hrm... Well, I think people who gank know that ganking is considered wrong by society in game terms, but chose to enjoy doing it anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
If you don't realize it is wrong, then you must get confused everytime concord shoots you. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
461
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 22:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Hrm... Well, I think people who gank know that ganking is considered wrong by society in game terms, but chose to enjoy doing it anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
If you don't realize it is wrong, then you must get confused everytime concord shoots you. are you literally twelve
No, but I'm glad I got you to take the time to post that.
While we are at it... Could I entertain you to explain in detail on why you think I am very young? It would make my day.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 23:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:No, but I'm glad I got you to take the time to post that.
While we are at it... Could I entertain you to explain in detail on why you think I am very young? It would make my day.
because you actually give a crap about ~morality~ in a video game twelve or otherwise, you're playing the wrong game
I'm glad I continue to encourage to get you to post.
But I don't understand. My signature is making the same point as the description of the corporation in question which points out that in these games people release emotions and behaviors they wouldn't otherwise do. Are you saying Goons are a bunch of 12 year olds as well.
And from my understanding 12 year olds do not sit around and ponder the quandary of morality.
Certainly those with more refined aptitudes towards pondering the deeper meanings of life think about these things.
And to deny that there isn't any morality in playing a open ended game is just as silly as saying Fable has no morality choice between good and evil gameplay choices.
Certainly this morality isn't on the same par as going out in real life and stealing grandma's social security money, but its probaly on the same morality level as a game of poker in Las Vegas.
Every action you take in life has some moral value in it. Some good, some bad, and course plenty of action with neutral morality as it caues neither harm nor good to others (which is an active choice).
The same applies to social interactions with video games. Its not serious business morality, but its still morality.
And if you like doing nasty things to people in game, it means you sort of like doing nasty things.
I do nasty things to people and I'm not ashamed to say that I do and my in game morality can be considered sort of evil. Why can't you? Or does it bother you that you are a virtual sinner? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 14:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.
It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence.
Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing.
The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us".
If it werne't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago.
People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money.
Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump.
Its why EVE and gambling are addicting. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 16:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad. It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence. Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing. The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us". If it weren't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago. People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money. Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump. And some people keep coming back to Vegas over and over again even though they keep losing because the emotional high of the risk, sadness of loss, and the joy of winning is the thing that makes it worth while. Its why EVE and gambling are addicting. I guess I'm just that oddball who plays games for fun and not to work myself up into an emo frenzy of wrist-slashing despair.
Well, the reaction of loss is different between people.
Some people go through denial and pretend that they don't care Some people get depressed. Some people get mad and break ****.
And some others look at it as a positive way to start over fresh and learn from their mistakes.
I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.
Would you really want to play a game where you have infinite lives. No. It gets boring when loss doesn't matter. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people. I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it.
Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment.
Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people. I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it. Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment. Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing? You'll have to ask the idiot who started the conversation about "real people" and "real feelings" because I don't have problems separating what happens in a game from what happens in real life.
Well, there are no clear defined boundaries of where real life ends and the game begins. I mean I pay real life money to play the game. I use my real life time. I know people in real life who play the game too.
So I am invested into this game with real life time and money and social aspects.
Does it mean I will beat my girlfriend if I lose a billion isk ship?
Most likely not.
But I might be in a grumpy mood when she interacts with me.
I mean if you don't care about the game in some way, then why play it all?
If I don't get happy from killing other ships and I don't get sad when I lose ships then why I am playing this game? To pass time?
I could just watch TV and get the same emotional investment. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Also we are living in a society or moving towards a society that has no distinctions between online life and real life.
Facebook is a good example of this. Behavior on facebook is now basically expected to be what and how they behave in real life.
Employers have no distinction with something you said online than something you said to them while you were working there to a customer.
Personally, I don't like this fact much myself but its almost impossible to say that there is such thing as a real life and non-real life online anymore.
I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.
I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind.
[edit]
Would you think it would be ok to tell an employer during an interview that you scam people in an online game?
Well... Maybe it would get you hired at Goldman Sach. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.
I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind. When you grow up you'll realize that adults don't act like this.
I know plenty of employers who look down on bad online behavior. Some which gets people fired.
I don't know of anyone who was fired over EVE (other than playing it too much while at work).
But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Lots of people would like to chat with your about this in regards to how it relates to dreams, and other fantasies.
Everyone is a potential murderer, you just haven't had the right motivation yet. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 18:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:[quote=Rhes]But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game? This is almost the dumbest argument I've ever seen made on these forums. Unless my game playing habits were somehow germane to the job I was applying to then no I wouldn't give the interviewer a detailed list of my in-game activities. When other posters ask if you're a 12 year old it's because of posts like the one you just made.
Of course you wouldn't volunteer this information, but if they asked you for your Facebook, Xbox live, and online gaming behavior would you feel comfortable giving it to them? They already ask for credit score and search for Facebook accounts as it is. What would they think if they saw "Just scammed someone in EVE online!" as one of your Facebook statuses? Would they understand that "its just a game"?
Maybe my thinking out of the box confuses everyone so they resort to ad homimen attacks when they can't comprehend the situation. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Of course you wouldn't volunteer this information, but if they asked you for your Facebook, Xbox live, and online gaming behavior would you feel comfortable giving it to them? They already ask for credit score and search for Facebook accounts as it is. What would they think if they saw "Just scammed someone in EVE online!" as one of your Facebook statuses? Would they understand that "its just a game"?
Maybe my thinking out of the box confuses everyone so they resort to ad homimen attacks when they can't comprehend the situation. i ask again: are you literally 12
Nope. 34 years old. 10 years in IT/Tech support. 2 years in a supervisor position. Worked for and with a few fortune 500 companies.
If you just want to call anyone that has a unique opinion on the meaning of morality a 12 year old to make yourself feel better about rationalizing your own views then I guess go right ahead. There isn't much I can do for you to help you see the world in a different light. You might want to try some capitalization and punctuation though. I hear the young people don't like to use that on their tweets. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. 34 years old. 10 years in IT/Tech support. 2 years in a supervisor position. Worked for and with a few fortune 500 companies.
If you just want to call anyone that has a unique opinion on the meaning of morality a 12 year old to make yourself feel better about rationalizing your own views then I guess go right ahead. There isn't much I can do for you to help you see the world in a different light. You might want to try some capitalization and punctuation though. I hear the young people don't like to use that on their tweets. so playing a game in accordance to its rules is immoral thank you for setting my moral compass straight, Captain "the guy who ganked my hulk should be fired from his job irl" Tardbar
Well its not stealing your grandma's social security check immoral, but its about as immoral as taking money from another player playing poker in Las Vegas. If you can't see morality in such actions then I can't help you.
Just because the game says you can do such a thing, doesn't make it moral. The game itself doesn't have the rules of morality, that is still subjective to society and the person committing the action.
I'm not saying that you are a bad person who should be arrested... I'm saying you still have actions of morality can be judged by the rest of society however slight.
The issue with EVE is not that the rules say you must scam and gank, but you can gank and scam if you make the willing choice to do so.
You make an in game moral choice to do bad actions just like you do in that game Fable.
It doesn't make you a sociopath or a criminal, but it does show you like to have an outlet by fantasizing about doing immoral things.
Also, I highly doubt someone would fire you if you are found to be a douche canoe online. Its just I am asking would you be comfortable with employers knowing this. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Oh ho ho eve online so real.
Would you gank Mayhaw Morgan's hulk?
If it wasn't so real and emotional it would be boring. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well its not stealing your grandma's social security check immoral, but its about as immoral as taking money from another player playing poker in Las Vegas. If you can't see morality in such actions then I can't help you. i'm pretty sure gambling is considered immoral by even the most neutral observer to begin with, so what's your point
In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker.
You can lose your time and/or money every time you undock, no?
Even if you use isk for buying plex, you are still converting your time into the equivalent $14.95. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker. anybody who believes the time they spend playing video games has any value at all is not to be taken seriously
Wow. What a dismal view on life and video games.
You mean you can't take pride in doing well in a video game? All those videos on youtube of those mega-constructions in Minecraft have no value at all? That that guy who reconstructed the Enteprise-D in Minecraft was just crazy?
Hell, even when I ice mine it feels like I am creating something worth of value to my entertainment and that is a low point. I mean you don't see increasing kill mails on EVE to not be something of value?
Gee. I see why you guys are always so angry. You must be bitter when you can get any joy out of video games because you don't value your time playing. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:snip Just because the game says you can do such a thing, doesn't make it moral. The game itself doesn't have the rules of morality, that is still subjective to society and the person committing the action.
I'm not saying that you are a bad person who should be arrested... I'm saying you still have actions of morality can be judged by the rest of society however slight.
What you're suggesting is that we should carry our real world morals into a virtual world. Real world morals are the result of societal norms which is all fine and dandy. However, they do get thrown out of the window when it suits our purposes, for example wars and oppression. The societal norms in Eve are different from that of the real world in that morals are irrelevant here. You're free to bring your real world morals into this world, just as others are free to ignore them because the norm here is to "do unto others before they do unto you". Society and its norms change rapidly, 200 years ago slavery was acceptable, today it is not, 500 years ago it was considered a divine right for European countries to commit genocide on natives of far off lands, because we wanted their stuff, today that is completely unacceptable. Eve is set 21,000 years in the future, the 4 factions have been cut off from humanity for millennia, who is to say that the behaviour of a human population cut off from mainstream humanity for that amount of time would conform to what we consider normal in the real world? In nature and in our own history, the strong have always preyed upon the weak, the strong have always become powerful at the expense of the weak, Eve is actually a purer reflection of the natural order of things than the norms real world society has adopted and expects us to live by.
There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:But eve is real and goons are bad people who should be made to suffer in real life
which is a bit redundant because eve is real
Funny. I never said anything to such an effect. I am simply saying there is morality in the game. I've never said the goons were all that bad actually. You must think you are bad if you keep saying such things.
Its not serious business to where you need to go to the goons house and send them to jail, but I'm saying it shows that you like to choose immoral behavior in an online simulation.
To say there is no morality in EVE is like saying the game has no moral choices. There are. There just aren't send you to jail consequences for choosing the evil path. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
This is complete and utter nonsense and you should feel bad for saying it. Participation in EVE is entirely voluntary.
Wow. Have you run out of comebacks that you resort to the old "you are bad. you should feel bad" statements.
Just because a game of poker is voluntary (usually) doesn't mean its moral to take your oponents money and leave him destitute. Its certainly a part of the game and legal (in Los Vegas), but it doesn't make you a "good" person for doing it.
That is the problem. You see moral as being legal. And its not. Legal and moral are two different concepts.
It maybe legal for me to foreclose a mortgage on an orphanage, but it doesn't make it moral.
I'm not saying the the actions of people in EVE are illegal, I'm saying they are somewhat immoral.
Just a tiny-etsy bitty immoral.
Or are you too high strung in your rationaliation defenses to admit that you make some moral choices in EVE?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker.
You can lose your time and/or money every time you undock, no?
Even if you use isk for buying plex, you are still converting your time into the equivalent $14.95. Holy **** you did unironically compare EVE to gambling Paying for your EVE account and betting on a poker hand are two completely different concepts. You can win money from a good poker hand; playing EVE, on the other hand, only costs money and has no potential for a monetary return.
You win entertainment by risking money. Same difference. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
Law enforcement != morals, killing another person is generally considered immoral, unless the law says otherwise, how is the law moral in that instance? Quote:If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
In Eve you're an immortal, other peoples personal judgements are meaningless when it's impossible to be killed.
Well the law implies that you frown on others in said behavior which it simply does. I suppose I should clarify.
To those who don't want to be ganked, your actions are immoral. To those who are doing the ganking, you probaly have no morals to worry about.
But to deny that people get all mad when you gank them because you violated their sense of morality, denies the fact that there are real tears to be had.
[edit]
And other people's judgements are real. You can be kicked froma an alliance that you were making lots of money in or have your ship killed that was worth a great deal of isk. There are consequences other than just death. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Andski wrote: This is complete and utter nonsense and you should feel bad for saying it. Participation in EVE is entirely voluntary.
I'd have used the words "meaningless twaddle" myself. He's intent on trying to push 21st century norms on a fictional universe that's based in the 230th century and populated by people who've been disconnected from the rest of humanity for thousands of years. It's akin to pushing our western norms onto an amazonian tribe that's still technologically in the stone or bronze age.
Well to be fair, I'm not arguing because I know I will convince you to change your mind or anything (hardly you people are set in your ways and have amazing rationalization defenses). I am just attempting to get people to come up with reaons to why they think they are right and spend the time and effort to put those into words.
And to test how long you will keep replying...
Although, not to diminish the argument I am saying. I still genuinely believe the things I say. I just don't care if you agree or not. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Andski wrote:Holy **** you did unironically compare EVE to gambling
Paying for your EVE account and betting on a poker hand are two completely different concepts. You can win money from a good poker hand; playing EVE, on the other hand, only costs money and has no potential for a monetary return. You win entertainment by risking money. Same difference. So you're saying that everyone should win in this game because to have it any other way would be inherently immoral?
What part of "its ok to be immoral" do you not understand? Yes its immoral to ruin someone elses day.
But its ok to do that if you want.
Are you ashamed of your virtual sin?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live.
That sounds like a moral code to me. I'm not saying that the in game morality is equivalent to real life morality. I am saying there are good and evil choices to be made in EVE.
If you can't accept that, then you are blind to the amazing flavor EVE has for its users.
The amazing thing about EVE is that you can decide to be good and evil. If you were just playing a game where you forced to be good or bad depending on the side you chose like WoW or Star Wars, it would be bland and boring.
Why can't you people accept that virtual sin is not something to be ashamed of, but rather to be embraced.
If there wasn't evil in EVE then all the good things that people do would be just as pointless. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
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Posted - 2013.08.30 03:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Yes its immoral to ruin someone elses day. Posts this bad are definitely immoral. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop.
Like my sig... If it makes you post, then its doing its job. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
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Posted - 2013.08.30 03:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live. That sounds like a moral code to me. I'm not saying that the in game morality is equivalent to real life morality. I am saying there is good and evil choices to be made in EVE. If you can't accept that, then you are blind to the amazing flavor EVE has for its users. The amazing thing about EVE is that you can decide to be good and evil. If you were just playing a game where you forced to be good or bad depending on the side you chose like WoW or Star Wars, it would be bland and boring. Why can't you people accept that virtual sin is not something to be ashamed of, but rather to be embraced. If there wasn't evil in EVE then all the good things that people do would be just as pointless. Way to butcher and nitpick a quote, what I actually said was "Well here's the thing, I generally play this game according to my own moral code, I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live. What I don't do is try to force my own personal moral code on others, I accept that others may not share my personal moral code..." Yes I have a moral code, and generally I adhere to it. However, I don't expect others to and I don't judge them for not following it. The key word is PERSONAL, it only applies to me, it doesn't apply to others and nor should it.
Let's take a subset of players... Say miners. I would say the majority of miners would believe that you are playing a "good" player rather than "evil".
As a collective these miners have belief in morality like a subset of real life society would have. Some might have different views like that speeding in a car is ok and whatnot. Others not so much.
I know you don't judge, but others do and in this judgement comes good and evil.
If you commit an evil action I judge you because thats what humans do.
Personally, I don't think the police should come to your house and arrest you, but I most likley wouldn't trust you in EVE.
Does that make sense? Morality comes from not only individual judgment by subsets of groups as a whole.
What you may think to be moral, others may not agree.
Sure I am projecting, but that is what humans do.
And I'm confused to why people won't embrace being evil.
I've ganked ships and I would say my alignment in EVE is evil. Why can't people embrace this without being ashamed of their actions? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I forgot to say, this thread has not made any of the eve online sinners repent.
How hard it is to say:
"I am an evil player and I'm OK with it." "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?
I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?
I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you. His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so. Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable.
So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even?
If that is too extreme how about "Was it right or wrong for him to say that?" "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?
I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you. His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so. Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable. So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even? I would say it was idiotic, over exaggerated, ill considered and offensive. Some may well consider it immoral, I consider it stupidity.
You didn't answer the question... Was it wrong for him to say it? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: You didn't answer the question... Was it wrong for him to say it?
Right and wrong don't come into it, it was a troll, specifically designed to offend. But yes it was wrong to use such a comparison, not because of morals, but because of the nature of what he compares the destruction of pixels to.
So its neither right nor wrong to troll?
Shouldn't it be wrong to troll?
But anyways, aren't you offended by the troll because it offends your morality of the comparisons?
And if you are offended doesn't that mean that there is some right and wrong in forums which is an extension of EVE? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 05:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:
So its neither right nor wrong to troll?
Shouldn't it be wrong to troll?
I'm indifferent to be honest, a little annoyed at myself for getting caught by it, but that's life. Quote:But anyways, aren't you offended by the troll because it offends your morality of the comparisons?
And if you are offended doesn't that mean that there is some right and wrong in forums which is an extension of EVE? I'm offended because of the magnitude, not the morality, of what was used for comparison, it's as simple as that. If he had used for example a so called "victimless crime", such as embezzlement or something that would normally be covered by insurance, that would have been non offensive.
Doesn't being offended mean that someone has violated your sense of morality? Certainly if you didn't care about such comparisons and have no moral quandary with such actions, that you would have not been offended. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 05:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Andski wrote:I scam people in EVE, yes, but that doesn't mean that I'd do the same in real life. Why? Because you can literally lose everything in EVE but it doesn't matter after you log off.
Stop trying to project people's actions in a game to what they would do in RL. It's stupid.
Personally I've never said that and continue to say that doing evil things in EVE is not equatable to doing real evil things in real life because there are real life consequences most of the time.
I'm just saying that it is somewhat evil.
Why are you so afraid of saying "I am an evil player and I'm OK with it."?
Secondly, if you are not sad or upset with loss EVE why are you playing? If you don't care about winning or losing, then why play the game when you can just watch TV instead? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 05:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: Doesn't being offended mean that someone has violated your sense of morality? Certainly if you didn't care about such comparisons and have no moral quandary with such actions, that you would have not been offended.
Nope, it's entirely possible to be offensive without violating morality. For example if I said that you were as dumb as a rock or as thick as pig manure, would it be your morals I offended, or your ego? I find some people offensive because they smell funny, I find onions offensive because of the texture, I find politicians offensive for no reason other than being politicians, none of which violate my sense of morality in any way.
Yes but in his instance he compared you to morally questionable activities. he didn't insult you, but rather compared you to certain people who did immoral things. If you didn't think those activities were immoral, I don't think you would have gotten upset. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 05:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Secondly, if you are not sad or upset with loss in EVE why are you playing? If you don't care about winning or losing, then why play the game when you can just watch TV instead? Because getting hung up over losing an imaginary spaceship is dumb
Ok. If you don't mind losing your ships, then you should contract your remaining ones over to me as you don't care about them.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 18:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'm still waiting for people to contract me all their ships because no one is supposed to have any attachment to them nor get upset when they lose them. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 21:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 22:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something. You are trying way too hard dude.
I don't know. I was trying to get a carrier out of this. Certainly losing such a ship wouldn't bother you? You can even contract it in Goons space. I'll use my Goon contact to go get it. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.30 23:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something. You are trying way too hard dude. You're not worth it. A newbee got the ship instead
Awww. And now you passed up your chance to prove you were right. Now I'll never know if you really didn't care about your ships.
So to me all the evidence I can take from this is that you really care about your ships and wealth because you can't bring yourself to give any of it to me. I bother you so much that you can't bring yourself to prove yourself right by the simple fact of handing over a few (but expensive) ships.
So let the truth be known...
Goons would be upset if I took their stuff. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
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Posted - 2013.08.31 03:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Wow. Just read this end-to-end.
I'm laughing so hard my dogs are looking at me funny. Well, funnier than they normally do, at any rate. The sheer... Damn. I don't have the right word for it... Asshattery will have to do. Yeah, That's it. The sheer asshattery of some of the posts makes me wonder is this isn't some kind of very carefully calculated and utterly brilliant troll.
Well. I've learned my lesson that if I ever admit that I am a troll that someone will get mad and get ISD to delete all my posts in the thread deleting the hilariousness.
So I have to come out and say that I am not a troll and that I genuinely beleive what I say to poeple.
Which I am saying is the case now.... That I am being very serious when I say the things that I am saying.
I do have a confession though.
Someone in this thread is my alt. Also, I post because I have an audience outside of GD who secretly get a kick out of my posts. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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