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Corpora Dei
Red Slice Enterprise
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 04:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Goonswarm_Federation
Quote:At the same time, there is the much more unsettling opposite idea of the domination of my screen persona over my "real" self. Our social identity, the person we assume to be in our social intercourse, is already a "mask" that involves the repression of our inadmissible impulses. But it is precisely in the conditions of "just playing" - when the rules regulating our "real life" exchanges are temporarily suspended - that we can permit ourselves to display these repressed attitudes. Take the proverbial impotent shy person who, while participating in a cyberspace interactive game, adopts the identity of an irresistible seducer or sadistic murderer. It is all too simple to say that this identity is just an imaginary escape from real-life impotence. The point is rather that, since he knows that the cyberspace interactive game is "just a game," he can "show his true self" and do things he would never have done in real-life interactions. In the guise of a fiction, the truth about himself is articulated. The fact that I perceive my virtual self-image as mere play thus allows me to suspend the usual hindrances which prevent me from realising my "dark half" in real life. My electronic id is given wing. |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
116
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 04:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Uh, grrrr Goons?
. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
620
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 04:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Do you even understand what Napoleon Complex means? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1329
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 04:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
the op, not getting it
neither do i, but i get there's a getting to be got and i ain't gotten it, get it? good. |
Lugia3
Pirates Incorporated
546
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 07:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Came expecting tears, left... thinking... Yarr |
ACE McFACE
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
1461
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 07:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Do you even understand what Napoleon Complex means? Isn't it where your brain tells you to wear one of those big hats and conquer Italy even though its socially unacceptable to do so? You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument! |
William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
302
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 08:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
"Wikipedia" wrote:Napoleon complex is an informal term describing an alleged type of psychological phenomenon which is said to exist in persons, usually men, of short stature. It is characterized by overly-aggressive or domineering social behaviour, and carries the implication that such behaviour is compensatory for the subjects' stature. The term is also used more generally to describe people who are driven by a perceived handicap to overcompensate in other aspects of their lives. Other names for the term include Napoleon syndrome and Short Man syndrome. So... everyone in EVE? pâ+(*GîÆGêçGîÆ*)n+ë pü+(pé£GêçpÇü-¦)pü+ (GùòGÇ+GùòG£+) |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3745
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 08:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Says the nobody. *lol* |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
317
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 08:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Have to agree with the quoted text. |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
389
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 08:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
The OP will of course, have found the source for that quote, the newspaper article which it originates from, and totally not assumed that Grrrrr Gewns wrote it |
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Gealbhan
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
421
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 09:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Google Napoleon Complex and imagine a 180o of that. Anyway, Goons are to EvE as sharks are to the ocean. Without the sharks the other fish become lazy and complacent, therefore, they get bored. The end. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7710
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 09:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why do people always compare dear leader with the wrong dictator in these grr goons threads? |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
389
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 09:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Why do people always compare dear leader with the wrong dictator in these grr goons threads?
I would have thought the facial fuzz was a bit of a hint, at the very least.
DBRB could possibly be napoleon though. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7711
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 09:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:baltec1 wrote:Why do people always compare dear leader with the wrong dictator in these grr goons threads? I would have thought the facial fuzz was a bit of a hint, at the very least. DBRB could possibly be napoleon though.
no, we need someone who enjoys grinding down structures, has a story to tell and loses large numbers of men. Perhaps a WW1 general. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12449
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 09:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:no, we need someone who enjoys grinding down structures, has a story to tell and loses large numbers of men. Perhaps a WW1 general. General Melchett from Blackadder goes Forth?, or his real life equivalent Field Marshal Douglas Haig?
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
337
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 09:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Why do people always compare dear leader with the wrong dictator in these grr goons threads?
It's on purpose, a simple but sometimes effective way to incite answers from other people.
A Grr Goon (short Grroon) Thread wants to be groomed, fed, pampered all in good faith ofc, always the lofty goal in mind to one day become a real indecipherable wall of text, maybe even a real threadnaught. Therefore all simple and easy to apply methods of generating posts are favourable.
But, oh cruel world! Little does the aspiring Grroon know that his real fate is to be forgotten, dead and burried neckdeep in threads that would suck up all of mankinds IQ if they were ever to be read again.
But worry not, Grroons do not truly die, it shall reincarnate soon after it's untimely demise, like a hybrid of a phoenix and a fly it will reincarnate from his own pile of smelly, scorched up dung into the flames of a new existence.
Hopefully I wont accidentally click on that new abomination and/or post in there out of sheer boredom... There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Sol Kal'orr
TLSG Asgard Alliance
77
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 10:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
I agree with the OP. The sooner we can alter the heights of our avatars the better. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7711
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 10:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:baltec1 wrote:Why do people always compare dear leader with the wrong dictator in these grr goons threads? It's on purpose, a simple but sometimes effective way to incite answers from other people. A Grr Goon (short Grroon) Thread wants to be groomed, fed, pampered all in good faith ofc, always the lofty goal in mind to one day become a real indecipherable wall of text, maybe even a real threadnaught. Therefore all simple and easy to apply methods of generating posts are favourable. But, oh cruel world! Little does the aspiring Grroon know that his real fate is to be forgotten, dead and burried neckdeep in threads that would suck up all of mankinds IQ if they were ever to be read again. But worry not, Grroons do not truly die, it shall reincarnate soon after it's untimely demise, like a hybrid of a phoenix and a fly it will reincarnate from his own pile of smelly, scorched up dung into the flames of a new existence. Hopefully I wont accidentally click on that new abomination and/or post in there out of sheer boredom...
You will always click because you simply cannot resist the need to see the bitter and twisted posting of people who feel the need to post walls of text in an attempt to look like they are talking about more than grr goons. |
Arec Bardwin
1101
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 10:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
I, too, feel fat after eating a tray of Napoleon Cake. |
Anunzi
Spacelane Salvage
137
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 10:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Posting in a Grrrr Goons thread, a bad one, but still a Grrr Goons thread.
Now, I'm no big city lawyer, but I honestly think GSF and their Dear Leader are amazing for the health of EvE online. Regardless of what else The Mittani does/says, he creates content, content so awesome that its made the BBC news site front page on more that one occasion. This brings in new players, new players mean more subs, more subs means more dev time for the game we all love.
Keep doing what you do Goons!
"On we fly, on wings of thunder, never more to sheath our swords" |
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
389
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 10:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:I, too, feel fat after eating a tray of Napoleon Cake.
Did you bring enough for everyone?
If you have been hiding in the cupboard, secretly scoffing everyone elses portion of cake, then I am not surprised you feel a bit...full |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
338
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 10:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You will always click because you simply cannot resist the need to see the bitter and twisted posting of people who feel the need to post walls of text in an attempt to look like they are talking about more than grr goons. Sad but true. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Suddenly Spaceships.
803
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 11:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
well written and a lot of truth...
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
389
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 11:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Original Article
In case anyone hasnt read it ^^ |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3747
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 12:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thanks.
That's some crappy article. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12467
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 13:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Thanks. That's some crappy article. It's the normal pretentious crap from The Grauniad, it's nearly as biased as the Daily Fail.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3747
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 13:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Thanks. That's some crappy article. It's the normal pretentious crap from The Grauniad, it's nearly as biased as the Daily Fail. Grauniad. lol |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 13:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
This is a bad thread |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
391
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 13:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Thanks. That's some crappy article.
Yeah, the author is an....interesting ^^....philosopher Philosopher dude wiki page |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1571
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 15:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sorry if you've heard this story before, but... I once stood in line behind Steven Tyler of Aerosmith at an airport. Man, for being such a cocksure rock band front man, that guy sure is short.
Also: Napoleon wasn't really that short. It's just that he was usually surrounded by really tall grenadier bodyguards, and they were also wearing tall bearskin caps. (The caps were a meta-tool to make the guy look taller and more intimidating). Napoleon looked small in stature in comparison. |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3341
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 15:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Sorry if you've heard this story before, but... I once stood in line behind Steven Tyler of Aerosmith at an airport. Man, for being such a cocksure rock band front man, that guy sure is short.
Also: Napoleon wasn't really that short. It's just that he was usually surrounded by really tall grenadier bodyguards, and they were also wearing tall bearskin caps. (The caps were a meta-tool to make the guy look taller and more intimidating). Napoleon looked small in stature in comparison.
It should also be noted that aristocratic Frenchmen invented high heels by and for themselves, so they would not be looking up to the peasants. Considering who Napoleon was and his background, and height being of importance regarding the aristocracy (those that survived the revolution anyway), all this about Napoleon being short is par for the course.
To compare the goon leader to Napoleon is probably false. I liken him to be more like the boss from "Office Space" crossed with General Buck Turgidson from "Doctor Strangelove".
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Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
367
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 15:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Poasting in a stealth 'Dig Me!' thread.
KuroVolt wrote:Do you even understand what Napoleon Complex means? I think the OP was referring to own-self. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
570
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 15:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gotta love it when someone is famous in a game or whatever, they think they are famous the world over and let it get to their heads. 99.99999999999999999% of the world would just say "Who?" when gaming celebrities are mentioned. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
367
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 15:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Sorry if you've heard this story before, but... I once stood in line behind Steven Tyler of Aerosmith at an airport. Man, for being such a cocksure rock band front man, that guy sure is short. Not as short as Donald 'Buck' Dharma.
Quote:Also: Napoleon wasn't really that short. It's just that he was usually surrounded by really tall grenadier bodyguards, and they were also wearing tall bearskin caps. (The caps were a meta-tool to make the guy look taller and more intimidating). Napoleon looked small in stature in comparison. 5' 2" - In contemporary French measurement. 5' 6" to the rest of the world. Even by modern standards, not notably short.
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Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3752
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 16:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Thanks. That's some crappy article. Yeah, the author is an....interesting ^^....philosopher Philosopher dude wiki page I had no idea a philosopher can write such shallow articles. |
Spurty
953
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 16:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
One guy with an ego the size of France and uses 'just playing a game mate' as an excuse for his 'ego rubbing' needs doesn't make for a Napoleon complex.
Now, why so many are 'enchanted' by this is worth studying.
Sadly, we're already bored of their flashcard retorts to being poked. --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
459
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Well that is what part of my sig means...
That if you remove the restriction on morality, then your deep down emotions come out. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12554
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Well that is what part of my sig means...
That if you remove the restriction on morality, then your deep down emotions come out. Immoral and amoral are two entirely different things.
Immoral is having no morality, being wicked or evil. If you are immoral, you know what society considers right and wrong, yet you do wrong anyway.
Amoral is having no morals at all.
While many acts committed in Eve are consider immoral, given the lore, backstory, the societal norms of the factions and the general nature of the game they are actually amoral.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
145
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well that is what part of my sig means...
That if you remove the restriction on morality, then your deep down emotions come out. Immoral and amoral are two entirely different things. Immoral is having no morality, being wicked or evil. If you are immoral, you know what society considers right and wrong, yet you do wrong anyway. Amoral is having no morals at all. While many acts committed in Eve are consider immoral, given the lore, backstory, the societal norms of the factions and the general nature of the game they are actually amoral.
This might help.
amoral - Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong. indifferent - without interest or concern; not caring; apathetic: his indifferent attitude toward the suffering of others. apathetic - having or showing little or no emotion |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
461
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well that is what part of my sig means...
That if you remove the restriction on morality, then your deep down emotions come out. Immoral and amoral are two entirely different things. Immoral is having no morality, being wicked or evil. If you are immoral, you know what society considers right and wrong, yet you do wrong anyway. Amoral is having no morals at all. While many acts committed in Eve are considered immoral, given the lore, backstory, the societal norms of the factions and the general nature of the game they are actually amoral.
Hrm... Well, I think people who gank know that ganking is considered wrong by society in game terms, but chose to enjoy doing it anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
If you don't realize it is wrong, then you must get confused everytime concord shoots you. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4233
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
An amusing alliance description, to be sure. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1576
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Japanese proverb: "When you're away from home, you have no shame." Ethiopian proverb: "If there is no fear of shame, there is no honor." American TV commercial: "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
In other words, if nobody that matters is watching, people feel free to let their inner Godzilla loose. Whether or not they actually do that is a matter of personal choice. Or maybe a matter of how big or small their inner Godzilla is. Or how much control they have over it. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7718
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
To compare the goon leader to Napoleon is probably false. I liken him to be more like the boss from "Office Space" crossed with General Buck Turgidson from "Doctor Strangelove".
A classic |
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1048
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 20:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
To compare the goon leader to Napoleon is probably false. I liken him to be more like the boss from "Office Space" crossed with General Buck Turgidson from "Doctor Strangelove".
A classic Oh, my epilepsy...! |
Zappity
Kurved Space
326
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 21:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
"What my enemies call a general peace is my destruction. What I call peace is merely the rearmament of my enemies."
Renting, huh? Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8640
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 22:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Hrm... Well, I think people who gank know that ganking is considered wrong by society in game terms, but chose to enjoy doing it anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
If you don't realize it is wrong, then you must get confused everytime concord shoots you.
are you literally twelve Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
461
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 22:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Hrm... Well, I think people who gank know that ganking is considered wrong by society in game terms, but chose to enjoy doing it anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
If you don't realize it is wrong, then you must get confused everytime concord shoots you. are you literally twelve
No, but I'm glad I got you to take the time to post that.
While we are at it... Could I entertain you to explain in detail on why you think I am very young? It would make my day.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4233
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 22:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Hrm... Well, I think people who gank know that ganking is considered wrong by society in game terms, but chose to enjoy doing it anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
If you don't realize it is wrong, then you must get confused everytime concord shoots you. are you literally twelve Is that not allowed in eve online? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8641
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 22:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:No, but I'm glad I got you to take the time to post that.
While we are at it... Could I entertain you to explain in detail on why you think I am very young? It would make my day.
because you actually give a crap about ~morality~ in a video game
twelve or otherwise, you're playing the wrong game Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4233
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 22:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:KuroVolt wrote:Do you even understand what Napoleon Complex means? Isn't it where your brain tells you to wear one of those big hats and conquer Italy even though its socially unacceptable to do so? Going to Fountain was The Mittani's ... last mistake :smugGoblin: There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
5910
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 23:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
Grrrrrr Goons thread# 372378.
Technically if you count all the stealth Grrrrrr Goons threads its like 429877.
If you count all the threads made by people who were ganked in highsec and blamed the goons eventhough goons had nothing to do with it, then its like 894122.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 23:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:No, but I'm glad I got you to take the time to post that.
While we are at it... Could I entertain you to explain in detail on why you think I am very young? It would make my day.
because you actually give a crap about ~morality~ in a video game twelve or otherwise, you're playing the wrong game
I'm glad I continue to encourage to get you to post.
But I don't understand. My signature is making the same point as the description of the corporation in question which points out that in these games people release emotions and behaviors they wouldn't otherwise do. Are you saying Goons are a bunch of 12 year olds as well.
And from my understanding 12 year olds do not sit around and ponder the quandary of morality.
Certainly those with more refined aptitudes towards pondering the deeper meanings of life think about these things.
And to deny that there isn't any morality in playing a open ended game is just as silly as saying Fable has no morality choice between good and evil gameplay choices.
Certainly this morality isn't on the same par as going out in real life and stealing grandma's social security money, but its probaly on the same morality level as a game of poker in Las Vegas.
Every action you take in life has some moral value in it. Some good, some bad, and course plenty of action with neutral morality as it caues neither harm nor good to others (which is an active choice).
The same applies to social interactions with video games. Its not serious business morality, but its still morality.
And if you like doing nasty things to people in game, it means you sort of like doing nasty things.
I do nasty things to people and I'm not ashamed to say that I do and my in game morality can be considered sort of evil. Why can't you? Or does it bother you that you are a virtual sinner? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
511
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 23:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
That's an intelligent and well thought out statement, and one I've had debates about.
It's a very interesting and controversial psychological question about human behavior. |
Zappity
Zappin' it
326
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 00:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Rekon X
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 00:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
It means he's short. |
Corpora Dei
Red Slice Enterprise
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 00:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Grrrrrr Goons thread# 372378.
Technically if you count all the stealth Grrrrrr Goons threads its like 429877.
If you count all the threads made by people who were ganked in highsec and blamed the goons eventhough goons had nothing to do with it, then its like 894122.
I wasn't GRRRRing, I like goons, I even got to enjoy Boat's crazy rants about his diets, classes, etc, made a nice isky on his awox missions. Mittens certainly has a certain eloquence about his speeches, obviously moves possibly the largest navies this game has ever seen. So did Napoleon =)
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
43
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 01:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it.
People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4235
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 02:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
Zappity wrote:EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. Damn right. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5738
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 02:15:00 -
[59] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rhivre wrote:baltec1 wrote:Why do people always compare dear leader with the wrong dictator in these grr goons threads? I would have thought the facial fuzz was a bit of a hint, at the very least. DBRB could possibly be napoleon though. no, we need someone who enjoys grinding down structures, has a story to tell and loses large numbers of men. Perhaps a WW1 general. DBRB would invade Russia in winter. My Youtube Channel Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
2013
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 02:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rhivre wrote:baltec1 wrote:Why do people always compare dear leader with the wrong dictator in these grr goons threads? I would have thought the facial fuzz was a bit of a hint, at the very least. DBRB could possibly be napoleon though. no, we need someone who enjoys grinding down structures, has a story to tell and loses large numbers of men. Perhaps a WW1 general. DBRB would invade Russia in winter. Whilst playing with matches. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
|
Zappity
Zappin' it
326
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 04:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.
Don't be daft. That's why I put inverted commas around game. The game is just an interface to allow human interactions in a simulated setting. The game itself doesn't make people 'sad', people do.
The only part of the actual game that makes people sad is missions. And POS management. And... actually, I think I'll be quiet now! Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4236
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 04:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Rhes wrote:Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad. Don't be daft. That's why I put inverted commas around game. The game is just an interface to allow human interactions in a simulated setting. The game itself doesn't make people 'sad', people do. The only part of the actual game that makes people sad is missions. And POS management. And... actually, I think I'll be quiet now! POSes only affect a small portion of players anyway so :ccp: There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 04:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Don't be daft. That's why I put inverted commas around game. The game is just an interface to allow human interactions in a simulated setting. The game itself doesn't make people 'sad', people do.
The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game.
|
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 05:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Rhes wrote:The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game.
Why play the game at all if, as you are implying, no fulfillment is possible? If the game has no power to make me sad or happy or angry or excited, then what good is it? What keeps you logging in?
Or are you implying that only people who win games should keep playing games and people who lose them should seek fulfillment in something else? |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 05:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
"justice in her own nature has been shown to be best for the soul in her own nature. Let a man do what is just, whether he have the ring of Gyges or not" |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4237
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:16:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Rhes wrote:The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game. Why play the game at all if, as you are implying, no fulfillment is possible? If the game has no power to make me sad or happy or angry or excited, then what good is it? What keeps you logging in? Or are you implying that only people who win games should keep playing games and people who lose them should seek fulfillment in something else? N3 exists to destroy GSF, only one will survive, the other will play even more LoL There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Zappity
Zappin' it
326
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:45:00 -
[67] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Rhes wrote:The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game. Why play the game at all if, as you are implying, no fulfillment is possible? If the game has no power to make me sad or happy or angry or excited, then what good is it? What keeps you logging in? Or are you implying that only people who win games should keep playing games and people who lose them should seek fulfillment in something else? N3 exists to destroy GSF, only one will survive, the other will play even more LoL
Ha, I can't stop myself liking your posts today. I guess that's Rhes' point too: if failure or a setback makes you miserable rather than take up the challenge then it might not be the right game.
I still don't see that the simulated setting makes much difference to the issue. Just a personality failure whether it is simulated or not. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 14:10:00 -
[68] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.
It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence.
Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing.
The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us".
If it werne't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago.
People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money.
Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump.
Its why EVE and gambling are addicting. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 15:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad. It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence. Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing. The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us". If it weren't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago. People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money. Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump. And some people keep coming back to Vegas over and over again even though they keep losing because the emotional high of the risk, sadness of loss, and the joy of winning is the thing that makes it worth while. Its why EVE and gambling are addicting.
I guess I'm just that oddball who plays games for fun and not to work myself up into an emo frenzy of wrist-slashing despair.
|
Sarah McKnobbo
Imperial Strippers
18
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 15:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
Where's the Napoleon Complex part of the post then? lol |
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 16:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Zappity wrote:I have never understood this debate.
That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.
You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.
EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it. People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad. It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence. Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing. The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us". If it weren't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago. People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money. Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump. And some people keep coming back to Vegas over and over again even though they keep losing because the emotional high of the risk, sadness of loss, and the joy of winning is the thing that makes it worth while. Its why EVE and gambling are addicting. I guess I'm just that oddball who plays games for fun and not to work myself up into an emo frenzy of wrist-slashing despair.
Well, the reaction of loss is different between people.
Some people go through denial and pretend that they don't care Some people get depressed. Some people get mad and break ****.
And some others look at it as a positive way to start over fresh and learn from their mistakes.
I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.
Would you really want to play a game where you have infinite lives. No. It gets boring when loss doesn't matter. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 16:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.
I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it.
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people. I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it.
Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment.
Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people. I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it. Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment. Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing?
You'll have to ask the idiot who started the conversation about "real people" and "real feelings" because I don't have problems separating what happens in a game from what happens in real life.
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:14:00 -
[75] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people. I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it. Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment. Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing? You'll have to ask the idiot who started the conversation about "real people" and "real feelings" because I don't have problems separating what happens in a game from what happens in real life.
Well, there are no clear defined boundaries of where real life ends and the game begins. I mean I pay real life money to play the game. I use my real life time. I know people in real life who play the game too.
So I am invested into this game with real life time and money and social aspects.
Does it mean I will beat my girlfriend if I lose a billion isk ship?
Most likely not.
But I might be in a grumpy mood when she interacts with me.
I mean if you don't care about the game in some way, then why play it all?
If I don't get happy from killing other ships and I don't get sad when I lose ships then why I am playing this game? To pass time?
I could just watch TV and get the same emotional investment. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
Also we are living in a society or moving towards a society that has no distinctions between online life and real life.
Facebook is a good example of this. Behavior on facebook is now basically expected to be what and how they behave in real life.
Employers have no distinction with something you said online than something you said to them while you were working there to a customer.
Personally, I don't like this fact much myself but its almost impossible to say that there is such thing as a real life and non-real life online anymore.
I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.
I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind.
[edit]
Would you think it would be ok to tell an employer during an interview that you scam people in an online game?
Well... Maybe it would get you hired at Goldman Sach. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:21:00 -
[77] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.
I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind.
When you grow up you'll realize that adults don't act like this.
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.
I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind. When you grow up you'll realize that adults don't act like this.
I know plenty of employers who look down on bad online behavior. Some which gets people fired.
I don't know of anyone who was fired over EVE (other than playing it too much while at work).
But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
394
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.
I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind. When you grow up you'll realize that adults don't act like this. I know plenty of employers who look down on bad online behavior. Some which gets people fired. I don't know of anyone who was fired over EVE (other than playing it too much while at work). But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game?
"If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down."
Lots of people would like to chat with your about this in regards to how it relates to dreams, and other fantasies. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:[quote=Rhes]But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game?
This is almost the dumbest argument I've ever seen made on these forums. Unless my game playing habits were somehow germane to the job I was applying to then no I wouldn't give the interviewer a detailed list of my in-game activities.
When other posters ask if you're a 12 year old it's because of posts like the one you just made.
|
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Lots of people would like to chat with your about this in regards to how it relates to dreams, and other fantasies.
Everyone is a potential murderer, you just haven't had the right motivation yet. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7734
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 18:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhivre wrote:Lots of people would like to chat with your about this in regards to how it relates to dreams, and other fantasies. Everyone is a potential murderer, you just haven't had the right motivation yet.
The very fact that Bieber is still alive shows that I am a saint. Or very evil for letting it continue. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 18:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:[quote=Rhes]But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game? This is almost the dumbest argument I've ever seen made on these forums. Unless my game playing habits were somehow germane to the job I was applying to then no I wouldn't give the interviewer a detailed list of my in-game activities. When other posters ask if you're a 12 year old it's because of posts like the one you just made.
Of course you wouldn't volunteer this information, but if they asked you for your Facebook, Xbox live, and online gaming behavior would you feel comfortable giving it to them? They already ask for credit score and search for Facebook accounts as it is. What would they think if they saw "Just scammed someone in EVE online!" as one of your Facebook statuses? Would they understand that "its just a game"?
Maybe my thinking out of the box confuses everyone so they resort to ad homimen attacks when they can't comprehend the situation. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1582
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 18:16:00 -
[84] - Quote
Crap, google search of napoleon complex epeen sends me back to an EVE forums thread. About make chars taller in character creator, and featuring a post by Mr. Epeen. Stuck in an EVE-O forums infinite loop.
Apparently, as yet there have been no scholarly studies of the relation between Napoleon Complex and the epeen syndrome. Is there an inverse relationship between physical height and magnitude of epeen? We may never know. |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
372
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 18:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Crap, google search of napoleon complex epeen sends me back to an EVE forums thread. About make chars taller in character creator, and featuring a post by Mr. Epeen. Stuck in an EVE-O forums infinite loop. You can log out any time you want... ...but you can never leave.
Quote:Apparently, as yet there have been no scholarly studies of the relation between Napoleon Complex and the epeen syndrome. Is there an inverse relationship between physical height and magnitude of epeen? We may never know. Too many academics have found the correlation to be self-evident, thus no studies. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 20:02:00 -
[86] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:[quote=Rhes]But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game? This is almost the dumbest argument I've ever seen made on these forums. Unless my game playing habits were somehow germane to the job I was applying to then no I wouldn't give the interviewer a detailed list of my in-game activities. When other posters ask if you're a 12 year old it's because of posts like the one you just made. Of course you wouldn't volunteer this information, but if they asked you for your Facebook, Xbox live, and online gaming behavior would you feel comfortable giving it to them? They already ask for credit score and search for Facebook accounts as it is. What would they think if they saw "Just scammed someone in EVE online!" as one of your Facebook statuses? Would they understand that "its just a game"? Maybe my thinking out of the box confuses everyone so they resort to ad homimen attacks when they can't comprehend the situation.
I don't know what kind of jobs you're applying for but as an actual adult I've never been asked for any of that information. I also don't run to Facebook every time I scam a pubbie or blow up a miner... |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 20:05:00 -
[87] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Apparently, as yet there have been no scholarly studies of the relation between Napoleon Complex and the epeen syndrome. Is there an inverse relationship between physical height and magnitude of epeen? We may never know.
Scholars disagree on whether the Napoleon Complex exists at all. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4246
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 22:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
EVE Online, too real. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
550
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 23:13:00 -
[89] - Quote
Napoleon? No. More of a Matthew McConaughey complex. |
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 00:15:00 -
[90] - Quote
Goons are fat. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12726
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:31:00 -
[91] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Of course you wouldn't volunteer this information, but if they asked you for your Facebook, Xbox live, and online gaming behavior would you feel comfortable giving it to them? They already ask for credit score and search for Facebook accounts as it is. What would they think if they saw "Just scammed someone in EVE online!" as one of your Facebook statuses? Would they understand that "its just a game"?
Any employer who asks for that sort of information is not worth working for, in fact I believe there was a case recently where it was deemed illegal for them to ask for that sort of information.
It's very easy to stop an employer finding or viewing your facebook account, lock it down using the tools facebook provide which incidentally can also stop Google crawling your particular account. A google search for my real name brings up zero results, relating to me personally, despite having a facebook account that uses it.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:37:00 -
[92] - Quote
EVE Online: YOU'RE A BAD PERSON AND SHOULDN'T GET A JOB
BE SCARED There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12726
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:39:00 -
[93] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:EVE Online: YOU'RE A BAD PERSON AND SHOULDN'T GET A JOB
BE SCARED Unless it's in politics and banking, in which case anything you can do in Eve is considered a minor misdemeanor.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8650
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:41:00 -
[94] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Of course you wouldn't volunteer this information, but if they asked you for your Facebook, Xbox live, and online gaming behavior would you feel comfortable giving it to them? They already ask for credit score and search for Facebook accounts as it is. What would they think if they saw "Just scammed someone in EVE online!" as one of your Facebook statuses? Would they understand that "its just a game"?
Maybe my thinking out of the box confuses everyone so they resort to ad homimen attacks when they can't comprehend the situation.
i ask again: are you literally 12 Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8650
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:45:00 -
[95] - Quote
forget convicted felons, tax cheats and drug users, employers need to be on the lookout for people who scam morons in eve online Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Of course you wouldn't volunteer this information, but if they asked you for your Facebook, Xbox live, and online gaming behavior would you feel comfortable giving it to them? They already ask for credit score and search for Facebook accounts as it is. What would they think if they saw "Just scammed someone in EVE online!" as one of your Facebook statuses? Would they understand that "its just a game"?
Maybe my thinking out of the box confuses everyone so they resort to ad homimen attacks when they can't comprehend the situation. i ask again: are you literally 12
Nope. 34 years old. 10 years in IT/Tech support. 2 years in a supervisor position. Worked for and with a few fortune 500 companies.
If you just want to call anyone that has a unique opinion on the meaning of morality a 12 year old to make yourself feel better about rationalizing your own views then I guess go right ahead. There isn't much I can do for you to help you see the world in a different light. You might want to try some capitalization and punctuation though. I hear the young people don't like to use that on their tweets. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8650
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:59:00 -
[97] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. 34 years old. 10 years in IT/Tech support. 2 years in a supervisor position. Worked for and with a few fortune 500 companies.
If you just want to call anyone that has a unique opinion on the meaning of morality a 12 year old to make yourself feel better about rationalizing your own views then I guess go right ahead. There isn't much I can do for you to help you see the world in a different light. You might want to try some capitalization and punctuation though. I hear the young people don't like to use that on their tweets.
so playing a game in accordance to its rules is immoral
thank you for setting my moral compass straight, Captain "the guy who ganked my hulk should be fired from his job irl" Tardbar Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:16:00 -
[98] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. 34 years old. 10 years in IT/Tech support. 2 years in a supervisor position. Worked for and with a few fortune 500 companies.
If you just want to call anyone that has a unique opinion on the meaning of morality a 12 year old to make yourself feel better about rationalizing your own views then I guess go right ahead. There isn't much I can do for you to help you see the world in a different light. You might want to try some capitalization and punctuation though. I hear the young people don't like to use that on their tweets. so playing a game in accordance to its rules is immoral thank you for setting my moral compass straight, Captain "the guy who ganked my hulk should be fired from his job irl" Tardbar
Well its not stealing your grandma's social security check immoral, but its about as immoral as taking money from another player playing poker in Las Vegas. If you can't see morality in such actions then I can't help you.
Just because the game says you can do such a thing, doesn't make it moral. The game itself doesn't have the rules of morality, that is still subjective to society and the person committing the action.
I'm not saying that you are a bad person who should be arrested... I'm saying you still have actions of morality can be judged by the rest of society however slight.
The issue with EVE is not that the rules say you must scam and gank, but you can gank and scam if you make the willing choice to do so.
You make an in game moral choice to do bad actions just like you do in that game Fable.
It doesn't make you a sociopath or a criminal, but it does show you like to have an outlet by fantasizing about doing immoral things.
Also, I highly doubt someone would fire you if you are found to be a douche canoe online. Its just I am asking would you be comfortable with employers knowing this. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:16:00 -
[99] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain "the guy who ganked my hulk should be fired from his job irl" Tardbar Would you gank your boss' Hulk? Would you gank your mother's Hulk? Would you gank a developmentally challenged person's Hulk?
How would they feel about it? How would you feel about it? How should the world feel about it and why? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:23:00 -
[100] - Quote
Oh ho ho eve online so real.
Would you gank Mayhaw Morgan's hulk? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:24:00 -
[101] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Oh ho ho eve online so real.
Would you gank Mayhaw Morgan's hulk?
If it wasn't so real and emotional it would be boring. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8651
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:31:00 -
[102] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Well its not stealing your grandma's social security check immoral, but its about as immoral as taking money from another player playing poker in Las Vegas. If you can't see morality in such actions then I can't help you.
i'm pretty sure gambling is considered immoral by even the most neutral observer to begin with, so what's your point Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well its not stealing your grandma's social security check immoral, but its about as immoral as taking money from another player playing poker in Las Vegas. If you can't see morality in such actions then I can't help you. i'm pretty sure gambling is considered immoral by even the most neutral observer to begin with, so what's your point Why do you have to point out these things There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:44:00 -
[104] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well its not stealing your grandma's social security check immoral, but its about as immoral as taking money from another player playing poker in Las Vegas. If you can't see morality in such actions then I can't help you. i'm pretty sure gambling is considered immoral by even the most neutral observer to begin with, so what's your point
In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker.
You can lose your time and/or money every time you undock, no?
Even if you use isk for buying plex, you are still converting your time into the equivalent $14.95. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8651
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker.
anybody who believes the time they spend playing video games has any value at all is not to be taken seriously Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
550
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Oh ho ho eve online so real.
Would you gank Mayhaw Morgan's hulk? If it wasn't so real and emotional it would be boring.
You just cracked the carebear code.
We really don't care that our pixels made it on your farm mail.
Sorry it had to end that way. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12728
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:56:00 -
[107] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:snip Just because the game says you can do such a thing, doesn't make it moral. The game itself doesn't have the rules of morality, that is still subjective to society and the person committing the action.
I'm not saying that you are a bad person who should be arrested... I'm saying you still have actions of morality can be judged by the rest of society however slight.
What you're suggesting is that we should carry our real world morals into a virtual world. Real world morals are the result of societal norms which is all fine and dandy. However, they do get thrown out of the window when it suits our purposes, for example wars and oppression.
The societal norms in Eve are different from that of the real world in that morals are not the norm. You're free to bring your real world morals into this world, just as others are free to ignore them because the norm here is to "do unto others before they do unto you".
Society and its norms change rapidly, 200 years ago slavery was acceptable, today it is not, 500 years ago committing genocide on the natives of far off lands, because we wanted their stuff, was considered a divine right, today that is generally considered completely unacceptable, it still happens to a certain extent, but is washed over by politicians and spin doctors.
Eve is set 21,000 years in the future, the 4 factions have been cut off from humanity for millennia, who is to say that the behaviour of a human population cut off from mainstream humanity for that amount of time would conform to what we consider normal in the real world?
In nature and in our own history, the strong have always preyed upon the weak, the strong have always become powerful at the expense of the weak, Eve is actually a purer reflection of the natural order of things than the norms real world society has adopted and expects us to live by.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:56:00 -
[108] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker. anybody who believes the time they spend playing video games has any value at all is not to be taken seriously
Wow. What a dismal view on life and video games.
You mean you can't take pride in doing well in a video game? All those videos on youtube of those mega-constructions in Minecraft have no value at all? That that guy who reconstructed the Enteprise-D in Minecraft was just crazy?
Hell, even when I ice mine it feels like I am creating something worth of value to my entertainment and that is a low point. I mean you don't see increasing kill mails on EVE to not be something of value?
Gee. I see why you guys are always so angry. You must be bitter when you can get any joy out of video games because you don't value your time playing. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:58:00 -
[109] - Quote
But eve is real and goons are bad people who should be made to suffer in real life
which is a bit redundant because eve is real There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:01:00 -
[110] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:snip Just because the game says you can do such a thing, doesn't make it moral. The game itself doesn't have the rules of morality, that is still subjective to society and the person committing the action.
I'm not saying that you are a bad person who should be arrested... I'm saying you still have actions of morality can be judged by the rest of society however slight.
What you're suggesting is that we should carry our real world morals into a virtual world. Real world morals are the result of societal norms which is all fine and dandy. However, they do get thrown out of the window when it suits our purposes, for example wars and oppression. The societal norms in Eve are different from that of the real world in that morals are irrelevant here. You're free to bring your real world morals into this world, just as others are free to ignore them because the norm here is to "do unto others before they do unto you". Society and its norms change rapidly, 200 years ago slavery was acceptable, today it is not, 500 years ago it was considered a divine right for European countries to commit genocide on natives of far off lands, because we wanted their stuff, today that is completely unacceptable. Eve is set 21,000 years in the future, the 4 factions have been cut off from humanity for millennia, who is to say that the behaviour of a human population cut off from mainstream humanity for that amount of time would conform to what we consider normal in the real world? In nature and in our own history, the strong have always preyed upon the weak, the strong have always become powerful at the expense of the weak, Eve is actually a purer reflection of the natural order of things than the norms real world society has adopted and expects us to live by.
There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8651
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:02:00 -
[111] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Wow. What a dismal view on life and video games.
You mean you can't take pride in doing well in a video game? All those videos on youtube of those mega-constructions in Minecraft have no value at all? That that guy who reconstructed the Enteprise-D in Minecraft was just crazy?
Hell, even when I ice mine it feels like I am creating something worth of value to my entertainment and that is a low point. I mean you don't see increasing kill mails on EVE to not be something of value?
Gee. I see why you guys are always so angry. You must be bitter when you can get any joy out of video games because you don't value your time playing.
Look, you're talking about it being "immoral" to do something against somebody in a video game because they've put time and money into the game. Do you personally feel distressed if you get scammed or suicide ganked? Does it affect those around you? If your answer to either of those is "yes" then you should probably take a step back and not get emotionally invested in a video game. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8651
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:02:00 -
[112] - Quote
double post please ignore Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8651
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:04:00 -
[113] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
This is complete and utter nonsense and you should feel bad for saying it. Participation in EVE is entirely voluntary. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:07:00 -
[114] - Quote
I disapprove of coalitions formed with reasons to exist like killing my alliance. In fact we all might disapprove.
How evil of N3 There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:But eve is real and goons are bad people who should be made to suffer in real life
which is a bit redundant because eve is real
Funny. I never said anything to such an effect. I am simply saying there is morality in the game. I've never said the goons were all that bad actually. You must think you are bad if you keep saying such things.
Its not serious business to where you need to go to the goons house and send them to jail, but I'm saying it shows that you like to choose immoral behavior in an online simulation.
To say there is no morality in EVE is like saying the game has no moral choices. There are. There just aren't send you to jail consequences for choosing the evil path. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
581
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
Shut up dude. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8652
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:11:00 -
[117] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker.
You can lose your time and/or money every time you undock, no?
Even if you use isk for buying plex, you are still converting your time into the equivalent $14.95.
Holy **** you did unironically compare EVE to gambling
Paying for your EVE account and betting on a poker hand are two completely different concepts. You can win money from a good poker hand; playing EVE, on the other hand, only costs money and has no potential for a monetary return. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12728
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:13:00 -
[118] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
Law enforcement != morals, killing another person is generally considered immoral, unless the law says otherwise, how is the law moral in that instance?
Quote:If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
In Eve you're an immortal, other peoples personal judgements are meaningless when it's impossible to be killed.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
This is complete and utter nonsense and you should feel bad for saying it. Participation in EVE is entirely voluntary.
Wow. Have you run out of comebacks that you resort to the old "you are bad. you should feel bad" statements.
Just because a game of poker is voluntary (usually) doesn't mean its moral to take your oponents money and leave him destitute. Its certainly a part of the game and legal (in Los Vegas), but it doesn't make you a "good" person for doing it.
That is the problem. You see moral as being legal. And its not. Legal and moral are two different concepts.
It maybe legal for me to foreclose a mortgage on an orphanage, but it doesn't make it moral.
I'm not saying the the actions of people in EVE are illegal, I'm saying they are somewhat immoral.
Just a tiny-etsy bitty immoral.
Or are you too high strung in your rationaliation defenses to admit that you make some moral choices in EVE?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:In EVE you gamble time and/or money almost as if you were playing a game of poker.
You can lose your time and/or money every time you undock, no?
Even if you use isk for buying plex, you are still converting your time into the equivalent $14.95. Holy **** you did unironically compare EVE to gambling Paying for your EVE account and betting on a poker hand are two completely different concepts. You can win money from a good poker hand; playing EVE, on the other hand, only costs money and has no potential for a monetary return.
You win entertainment by risking money. Same difference. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:19:00 -
[121] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: There is still morality in EVE. I mean the Empires frown everytime you gank in hi-sec and concord you. You lose sec status when you pod people in lowsec so there is some sort of law enforcement and judgement of morality on your actions (besides those of other players).
Law enforcement != morals, killing another person is generally considered immoral, unless the law says otherwise, how is the law moral in that instance? Quote:If you gank someone in null, then I say there is less of a moral judgement since there is no in game punishment on said behavior and people usually expect those who are out in null sec are there willingly.
Except if you awox and blue and then you have moral judgement of those who are in said alliance who would frown on such behavior.
In Eve you're an immortal, other peoples personal judgements are meaningless when it's impossible to be killed.
Well the law implies that you frown on others in said behavior which it simply does. I suppose I should clarify.
To those who don't want to be ganked, your actions are immoral. To those who are doing the ganking, you probaly have no morals to worry about.
But to deny that people get all mad when you gank them because you violated their sense of morality, denies the fact that there are real tears to be had.
[edit]
And other people's judgements are real. You can be kicked froma an alliance that you were making lots of money in or have your ship killed that was worth a great deal of isk. There are consequences other than just death. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12728
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:23:00 -
[122] - Quote
Andski wrote: This is complete and utter nonsense and you should feel bad for saying it. Participation in EVE is entirely voluntary.
I'd have used the words "meaningless twaddle" myself. He's intent on trying to push 21st century norms on a fictional universe that's based in the 230th century and populated by people who've been disconnected from the rest of humanity for thousands of years.
It's akin to pushing our western norms onto an amazonian tribe that's still technologically in the stone or bronze age.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:26:00 -
[123] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Andski wrote: This is complete and utter nonsense and you should feel bad for saying it. Participation in EVE is entirely voluntary.
I'd have used the words "meaningless twaddle" myself. He's intent on trying to push 21st century norms on a fictional universe that's based in the 230th century and populated by people who've been disconnected from the rest of humanity for thousands of years. It's akin to pushing our western norms onto an amazonian tribe that's still technologically in the stone or bronze age, or vice versa. Because it suits him. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8652
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:29:00 -
[124] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Just because a game of poker is voluntary (usually) doesn't mean its moral to take your oponents money and leave him destitute. Its certainly a part of the game and legal (in Los Vegas), but it doesn't make you a "good" person for doing it.
Because your opponent betting his children's college fund in a poker game is the pinnacle of morality. Also, losing in EVE doesn't make you destitute.
Captain Tardbar wrote:That is the problem. You see moral as being legal. And its not. Legal and moral are two different concepts.
When did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.
Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12728
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:29:00 -
[125] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: Well the law implies that you frown on others in said behavior which it simply does. I suppose I should clarify.
To those who don't want to be ganked, your actions are immoral. To those who are doing the ganking, you probaly have no morals to worry about.
But to deny that people get all mad when you gank them because you violated their sense of morality, denies the fact that there are real tears to be had.
Nope they cry because they've developed a physical attachment to a virtual object in a virtual universe, it's like being a child and stealing another kids toys, the other kid doesn't cry because they've made a moral judgement, they cry because they no longer have what you took.
Quote:[edit]
And other people's judgements are real. You can be kicked from a an alliance that you were making lots of money in or have your ship killed that was worth a great deal of isk. There are consequences other than just death. Which in itself is meaningless, if I join an alliance with the intent of awoxing them sometime in the future, and they kick me for awoxing, what is the consequence? At worst I've lost the chance to awox them some more, at best I've refuelled my tear tank, and had a giggle doing so.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8652
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:31:00 -
[126] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Andski wrote:Holy **** you did unironically compare EVE to gambling
Paying for your EVE account and betting on a poker hand are two completely different concepts. You can win money from a good poker hand; playing EVE, on the other hand, only costs money and has no potential for a monetary return. You win entertainment by risking money. Same difference.
So you're saying that everyone should win in this game because to have it any other way would be inherently immoral? Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:32:00 -
[127] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Andski wrote: This is complete and utter nonsense and you should feel bad for saying it. Participation in EVE is entirely voluntary.
I'd have used the words "meaningless twaddle" myself. He's intent on trying to push 21st century norms on a fictional universe that's based in the 230th century and populated by people who've been disconnected from the rest of humanity for thousands of years. It's akin to pushing our western norms onto an amazonian tribe that's still technologically in the stone or bronze age.
Well to be fair, I'm not arguing because I know I will convince you to change your mind or anything (hardly you people are set in your ways and have amazing rationalization defenses). I am just attempting to get people to come up with reaons to why they think they are right and spend the time and effort to put those into words.
And to test how long you will keep replying...
Although, not to diminish the argument I am saying. I still genuinely believe the things I say. I just don't care if you agree or not. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:34:00 -
[128] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Andski wrote:Holy **** you did unironically compare EVE to gambling
Paying for your EVE account and betting on a poker hand are two completely different concepts. You can win money from a good poker hand; playing EVE, on the other hand, only costs money and has no potential for a monetary return. You win entertainment by risking money. Same difference. So you're saying that everyone should win in this game because to have it any other way would be inherently immoral?
What part of "its ok to be immoral" do you not understand? Yes its immoral to ruin someone elses day.
But its ok to do that if you want.
Are you ashamed of your virtual sin?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8652
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:39:00 -
[129] - Quote
By your standard, it is immoral for a professor to fail a student if the student risks losing his scholarship as a result of failing that course. That is nonsense. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12728
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:39:00 -
[130] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well to be fair, I'm not arguing because I know I will convince you to change your mind or anything (hardly you people are set in your ways and have amazing rationalization defenses). I am just attempting to get people to come up with reaons to why they think they are right and spend the time and effort to put those into words.
And to test how long you will keep replying...
Although, not to diminish the argument I am saying. I still genuinely believe the things I say. I just don't care if you agree or not.
Well here's the thing, I generally play this game according to my own moral code, I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live. What I don't do is try to force my own personal moral code on others, I accept that others may not share my personal moral code, or are amoral when it comes to pixels, and tbh, fair play to them.
In this game, morals are a weakness to be exploited.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:40:00 -
[131] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Yes its immoral to ruin someone elses day.
Posts this bad are definitely immoral. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop.
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:46:00 -
[132] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live.
That sounds like a moral code to me. I'm not saying that the in game morality is equivalent to real life morality. I am saying there are good and evil choices to be made in EVE.
If you can't accept that, then you are blind to the amazing flavor EVE has for its users.
The amazing thing about EVE is that you can decide to be good and evil. If you were just playing a game where you forced to be good or bad depending on the side you chose like WoW or Star Wars, it would be bland and boring.
Why can't you people accept that virtual sin is not something to be ashamed of, but rather to be embraced.
If there wasn't evil in EVE then all the good things that people do would be just as pointless. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:47:00 -
[133] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Yes its immoral to ruin someone elses day. Posts this bad are definitely immoral. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop.
Like my sig... If it makes you post, then its doing its job. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12728
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:50:00 -
[134] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live. That sounds like a moral code to me. I'm not saying that the in game morality is equivalent to real life morality. I am saying there is good and evil choices to be made in EVE. If you can't accept that, then you are blind to the amazing flavor EVE has for its users. The amazing thing about EVE is that you can decide to be good and evil. If you were just playing a game where you forced to be good or bad depending on the side you chose like WoW or Star Wars, it would be bland and boring. Why can't you people accept that virtual sin is not something to be ashamed of, but rather to be embraced. If there wasn't evil in EVE then all the good things that people do would be just as pointless.
Way to butcher and nitpick a quote, what I actually said was "Well here's the thing, I generally play this game according to my own moral code, I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live. What I don't do is try to force my own personal moral code on others, I accept that others may not share my personal moral code..."
Yes I have a moral code, and generally I adhere to it. However, I don't expect others to and I don't judge them for not following it.
The key word is PERSONAL, it only applies to me, it doesn't apply to others and nor should it.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:59:00 -
[135] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Yes its immoral to ruin someone elses day. Posts this bad are definitely immoral. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop. Posts so terrible they're sinful.
2 weeks RO There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:59:00 -
[136] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live. That sounds like a moral code to me. I'm not saying that the in game morality is equivalent to real life morality. I am saying there is good and evil choices to be made in EVE. If you can't accept that, then you are blind to the amazing flavor EVE has for its users. The amazing thing about EVE is that you can decide to be good and evil. If you were just playing a game where you forced to be good or bad depending on the side you chose like WoW or Star Wars, it would be bland and boring. Why can't you people accept that virtual sin is not something to be ashamed of, but rather to be embraced. If there wasn't evil in EVE then all the good things that people do would be just as pointless. Way to butcher and nitpick a quote, what I actually said was "Well here's the thing, I generally play this game according to my own moral code, I don't scam, I rarely gank, I don't steal loot (often) and generally I live and let live. What I don't do is try to force my own personal moral code on others, I accept that others may not share my personal moral code..." Yes I have a moral code, and generally I adhere to it. However, I don't expect others to and I don't judge them for not following it. The key word is PERSONAL, it only applies to me, it doesn't apply to others and nor should it.
Let's take a subset of players... Say miners. I would say the majority of miners would believe that you are playing a "good" player rather than "evil".
As a collective these miners have belief in morality like a subset of real life society would have. Some might have different views like that speeding in a car is ok and whatnot. Others not so much.
I know you don't judge, but others do and in this judgement comes good and evil.
If you commit an evil action I judge you because thats what humans do.
Personally, I don't think the police should come to your house and arrest you, but I most likley wouldn't trust you in EVE.
Does that make sense? Morality comes from not only individual judgment by subsets of groups as a whole.
What you may think to be moral, others may not agree.
Sure I am projecting, but that is what humans do.
And I'm confused to why people won't embrace being evil.
I've ganked ships and I would say my alignment in EVE is evil. Why can't people embrace this without being ashamed of their actions? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:59:00 -
[137] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Is it moral to push a personal moral code onto those that may not share it? Because, as our own history has shown us, that generally leads to "bad thingsGäó" happening. Push our moral code all over the pubbies. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:00:00 -
[138] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:What you're suggesting is that we should carry our real world morals into a virtual world. Real world morals are the result of societal norms which is all fine and dandy. However, they do get thrown out of the window when it suits our purposes, for example wars and oppression.
The societal norms in Eve are different from that of the real world in that morals are not the norm. You're free to bring your real world morals into this world, just as others are free to ignore them because the norm here is to "do unto others before they do unto you".
Society and its norms change rapidly, 200 years ago slavery was acceptable, today it is not, 500 years ago committing genocide on the natives of far off lands, because we wanted their stuff, was considered a divine right, today that is generally considered completely unacceptable, it still happens to a certain extent, but is washed over by politicians and spin doctors.
Eve is set 21,000 years in the future, the 4 factions have been cut off from humanity for millennia, who is to say that the behaviour of a human population cut off from mainstream humanity for that amount of time would conform to what we consider normal in the real world?
In nature and in our own history, the strong have always preyed upon the weak, the strong have always become powerful at the expense of the weak, Eve is actually a purer reflection of the natural order of things than the norms real world society has adopted and expects us to live by.
No, you are suggesting that we leave our morality (which is an inseparable part of who we are) at the login screen. And that would be fine and possible, if the actions that we took in-game had no external effect. But for whatever reason, the actions in-game obviously do have external effects. That is the reason we play the game at all.
Your suggestion is analagous to dressing up in a gorilla suit and beating someone to death, then taking off the suit and expecting not to be judged for your actions because, after all, you were a gorilla. We are suggesting that, no, you're a murderer.
It's possible to just play the game and still hurt someone's feelings, just like it's possible to just play ice hockey and still break someone's leg, but if you asked most ice hockey players, I'd bet most of them would tell you they'd rather lose the game than break their opponent's leg. They would put their moral integrity above winning the game. And, even rarer than someone willing to break another person's leg to win would be someone who was willing to LOSE so long as they were able to break someone elses' leg. Similarly, when you pay effort, time, money, ISK, etc. in EVE in the hope of just ruining someone's game, that is a moral decision.
To justify our behavior with "It's just a game." is no more noble or defensible than "She deserved it." or "Blacks/Jews/women/etc. aren't our equals." or "It was a war." or even "I was drunk.". What happens in Vegas DOES NOT actually stay in Vegas. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:00:00 -
[139] - Quote
I forgot to say, this thread has not made any of the eve online sinners repent. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12729
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:07:00 -
[140] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: Let's take a subset of players... Say miners. I would say the majority of miners would believe that you are playing a "good" player rather than "evil".
As a collective these miners have belief in morality like a subset of real life society would have. Some might have different views like that speeding in a car is ok and whatnot. Others not so much.
I know you don't judge, but others do and in this judgement comes good and evil.
If you commit an evil action I judge you because thats what humans do.
Personally, I don't think the police should come to your house and arrest you, but I most likley wouldn't trust you in EVE.
Does that make sense? Morality comes from not only individual judgment by subsets of groups as a whole.
What you may think to be moral, others may not agree.
Sure I am projecting, but that is what humans do.
And I'm confused to why people won't embrace being evil.
I've ganked ships and I would say my alignment in EVE is evil. Why can't people embrace this without being ashamed of their actions?
I don't actually care what others think of my own personal moral code, their thoughts on it are meaningless, that's why I say it's a personal code. Believe me miners wouldn't consider me good in any way, I may not gank them personally, not on this character anyway, but I'm quite happy to make money hand over fist from their misery, I'm a shareholder in the New Order, I supply BPCs, rigs, modules and ships to them, as well as sell ships, modules etc to both miners and gankers.
While I may have a moral code, money does not, in the real world I would probably be considered a war profiteer.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:08:00 -
[141] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I forgot to say, this thread has not made any of the eve online sinners repent.
How hard it is to say:
"I am an evil player and I'm OK with it." "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:13:00 -
[142] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I'm a shareholder in the New Order, I supply BPCs, rigs, modules and ships to them, as well as sell ships, modules etc to both miners and gankers.
While I may have a moral code, money does not, in the real world I would probably be considered a war profiteer. You follow the Code though !
According to James 315, that is more than enough justification. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:13:00 -
[143] - Quote
Your many "riskless" sacrifices in the enforcement of the New Halima Code are greatly appreciated by EVE Online. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12729
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:18:00 -
[144] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote: No, you are suggesting that we leave our morality (which is an inseparable part of who we are) at the login screen. And that would be fine and possible, if the actions that we took in-game had no external effect. But for whatever reason, the actions in-game obviously do have external effects. That is the reason we play the game at all.
Your suggestion is analagous to dressing up in a gorilla suit and beating someone to death, then taking off the suit and expecting not to be judged for your actions because, after all, you were a gorilla. We are suggesting that, no, you're a murderer.
Now you're really reaching. Go away.
Quote:It's possible to just play the game and still hurt someone's feelings, just like it's possible to just play ice hockey and still break someone's leg, but if you asked most ice hockey players, I'd bet most of them would tell you they'd rather lose the game than break their opponent's leg. They would put their moral integrity above winning the game. And, even rarer than someone willing to break another person's leg to win would be someone who was willing to LOSE so long as they were able to break someone elses' leg. Similarly, when you pay effort, time, money, ISK, etc. in EVE in the hope of just ruining someone's game, that is a moral decision.
{sarcasm}You've never played ice hockey have you? {/sarcasm} It's the only sport where the game starts sometime during the fight.
The difference between Eve and, using your example ice hockey, is that in Eve no physical harm is done, it's all 1's and 0's not bones and physical pain.
Quote:To justify our behavior with "It's just a game." is no more noble or defensible than "She deserved it." or "Blacks/Jews/women/etc. aren't our equals." or "It was a war." or even "I was drunk.". What happens in Vegas DOES NOT actually stay in Vegas. Frankly that is an unconscionable comparison, a computer game should never ever be compared to your examples. You should be ashamed of yourself for comparing a form of virtual entertainment to such things, you sir, disgust me.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:21:00 -
[145] - Quote
Don't you feel guilty about ganking yet, having been compared to murder, ****, racial profiling and substance abuse? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12729
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:22:00 -
[146] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Don't you feel guilty about ganking yet, having been compared to murder, ****, racial profiling and substance abuse? Actually no, he's just been added to my gank alts watch list
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
463
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:23:00 -
[147] - Quote
Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?
I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:31:00 -
[148] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Don't you feel guilty about ganking yet, having been compared to murder, ****, racial profiling and substance abuse? Actually no, he's just been added to my gank alts watch list That's like double murder There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12729
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:32:00 -
[149] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?
I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you. His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so.
Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:37:00 -
[150] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?
I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you. His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so. Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable.
So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even?
If that is too extreme how about "Was it right or wrong for him to say that?" "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
|
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:41:00 -
[151] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Now you're really reaching.
Do you know any really bad people, Jonah Gravenstein? What do they tell you about why they are bad? What does their "morality" look like? Don't you think they have justifications for the bad things they do, and don't you think those justifications look a hell of a lot like some of yours? Why are they "bad" but the people in EVE are "just playing"?
I almost think EVE players are worse, because they only do it because they know they face little/no real world consequence. At least a real murderer takes a real risk, faces a real loss.
BTW, I'm in Osmon, if you feel like ganking me. I can ship down to a Retriever if you need. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12729
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:41:00 -
[152] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even?
I would say it was idiotic, over exaggerated, ill considered and offensive. Some may well consider it immoral, I won't make that judgement as it was clearly a comparison designed to elicit an emotional response.
TL;DR It was a deliberate troll, and I fell for it.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:42:00 -
[153] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?
I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you. His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so. Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable. So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even? I would say it was idiotic, over exaggerated, ill considered and offensive. Some may well consider it immoral, I consider it stupidity.
You didn't answer the question... Was it wrong for him to say it? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12729
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:45:00 -
[154] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: You didn't answer the question... Was it wrong for him to say it?
Right and wrong don't come into it, it was a troll, specifically designed to offend.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:51:00 -
[155] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: You didn't answer the question... Was it wrong for him to say it?
Right and wrong don't come into it, it was a troll, specifically designed to offend. But yes it was wrong to use such a comparison, not because of morals, but because of the nature of what he compares the destruction of pixels to.
So its neither right nor wrong to troll?
Shouldn't it be wrong to troll?
But anyways, aren't you offended by the troll because it offends your morality of the comparisons?
And if you are offended doesn't that mean that there is some right and wrong in forums which is an extension of EVE? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:58:00 -
[156] - Quote
Of course it's a troll, this is General Discussion.
Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMUZRcoBZro (wow that's pretty hilarious, thanks youtube)
Totally not contentless posting. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12729
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:03:00 -
[157] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Now you're really reaching. Do you know any really bad people, Jonah Gravenstein? What do they tell you about why they are bad? What does their "morality" look like? Don't you think they have justifications for the bad things they do, and don't you think those justifications look a hell of a lot like some of yours? Why are they "bad" but the people in EVE are "just playing"? You don't appear to be able to separate reality from fantasy, I suggest you get that checked out, it's a common symptom of mental illness. Eve is a fantasy, the same as every other game, as well as films and books, they're entertainment, an escape from the reality of life.
Quote:I almost think EVE players are worse, because they only do it because they know they face little/no real world consequence. At least a real murderer takes a real risk, faces a real loss. Once again, it's a fantasy world, an escape from the drudgery of reality. The punishment fits the crime, murdering someone in real life is very different from exploding someone in an internet spaceships game.
Quote:BTW, I'm in Osmon, if you feel like ganking me. I can ship down to a Retriever if you need. Why would I do it when you're expecting it? It's much more fun for me to do it in 6 months time when you're not.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
I think he wants to try The Mittani for imperialist colonialization, illegal occupation, slavekeeping and genocide for this multiple wars of aggression in the eve online universe. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:07:00 -
[159] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:BTW, I'm in Osmon, if you feel like ganking me. I can ship down to a Retriever if you need. Why would I do it when you're expecting it? It's much more fun for me to do it in 6 months time when you're not. Yeah, plus if he's gonna ship "down" from his deadspace fit, meta upgrades hulk, it's not as good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIyVlseRmVc more content, trippy colors on this There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12730
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:09:00 -
[160] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:
So its neither right nor wrong to troll?
Shouldn't it be wrong to troll?
I'm indifferent to be honest, a little annoyed at myself for getting caught by it, but that's life.
Quote:But anyways, aren't you offended by the troll because it offends your morality of the comparisons?
And if you are offended doesn't that mean that there is some right and wrong in forums which is an extension of EVE? I'm offended because of the magnitude, not the morality, of what was used for comparison, it's as simple as that. If he had used for example a so called "victimless crime", such as embezzlement or something that would normally be covered by insurance, that would have been non offensive.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
|
Tauranon
Weeesearch
235
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:10:00 -
[161] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
No, you are suggesting that we leave our morality (which is an inseparable part of who we are) at the login screen. And that would be fine and possible, if the actions that we took in-game had no external effect. But for whatever reason, the actions in-game obviously do have external effects. That is the reason we play the game at all.
Your suggestion is analagous to dressing up in a gorilla suit and beating someone to death, then taking off the suit and expecting not to be judged for your actions because, after all, you were a gorilla. We are suggesting that, no, you're a murderer.
It's possible to just play the game and still hurt someone's feelings, just like it's possible to just play ice hockey and still break someone's leg, but if you asked most ice hockey players, I'd bet most of them would tell you they'd rather lose the game than break their opponent's leg. They would put their moral integrity above winning the game. And, even rarer than someone willing to break another person's leg to win would be someone who was willing to LOSE so long as they were able to break someone elses' leg. Similarly, when you pay effort, time, money, ISK, etc. in EVE in the hope of just ruining someone's game, that is a moral decision.
To justify our behavior with "It's just a game." is no more noble or defensible than "She deserved it." or "Blacks/Jews/women/etc. aren't our equals." or "It was a war." or even "I was drunk.". What happens in Vegas DOES NOT actually stay in Vegas.
My word you missed the point of the game. In EVE you are your personal policeman. The point to a simulation is that the only hurt you can actually suffer in it is timeloss when your sandcastle gets knocked down because you weren't good at being your personal policeman, and other players are very definitely able to play as tyrants or pirates without that being any sort of moral issue whatsoever. The game would literally fail at providing you the opportunity to be your personal policeman, if it didn't in fact allow and encourage piracy and tyrants.
It amuses me no end, that in reality WoW allows timeservers with no ability whatsoever to raid and collect purples, yet the same nohopers can't get past the first lowsec gate, simply because the monsters on the other side are run by humans.
The value of anything I do in low or null, is largely set by the fact that people can't handle the human difficulty of low and null, and that wouldn't at all be so if there weren't pirates, corps who hold space as private and tyrants. The game would have mudflation died years ago, everything you hold in the game as valuable, whatever, its all context because of people who shoot other peoples ships. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:15:00 -
[162] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:
So its neither right nor wrong to troll?
Shouldn't it be wrong to troll?
I'm indifferent to be honest, a little annoyed at myself for getting caught by it, but that's life. Quote:But anyways, aren't you offended by the troll because it offends your morality of the comparisons?
And if you are offended doesn't that mean that there is some right and wrong in forums which is an extension of EVE? I'm offended because of the magnitude, not the morality, of what was used for comparison, it's as simple as that. If he had used for example a so called "victimless crime", such as embezzlement or something that would normally be covered by insurance, that would have been non offensive.
Doesn't being offended mean that someone has violated your sense of morality? Certainly if you didn't care about such comparisons and have no moral quandary with such actions, that you would have not been offended. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:25:00 -
[163] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I'm offended because of the magnitude, not the morality, of what was used for comparison, it's as simple as that. If he had used for example a so called "victimless crime", such as embezzlement or something that would normally be covered by insurance, that would have been non offensive. Someone who gets ganked would get the insurance, if they had insured their ship.... There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8652
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:25:00 -
[164] - Quote
I scam people in EVE, yes, but that doesn't mean that I'd do the same in real life. Why? Because you can literally lose everything in EVE but it doesn't matter after you log off.
Stop trying to project people's actions in a game to what they would do in RL. It's stupid. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:26:00 -
[165] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:It amuses me no end, that in reality WoW allows timeservers with no ability whatsoever to raid and collect purples, yet the same nohopers can't get past the first lowsec gate, simply because the monsters on the other side are run by humans.
The value of anything I do in low or null, is largely set by the fact that people can't handle the human difficulty of low and null, and that wouldn't at all be so if there weren't pirates, corps who hold space as private and tyrants. The game would have mudflation died years ago, everything you hold in the game as valuable, whatever, its all context because of people who shoot other peoples ships. Can't wait for another random officer fitted missioning ship killmail. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:31:00 -
[166] - Quote
Andski wrote:I scam people in EVE, yes, but that doesn't mean that I'd do the same in real life. Why? Because you can literally lose everything in EVE but it doesn't matter after you log off.
Stop trying to project people's actions in a game to what they would do in RL. It's stupid. But your ~tears~ cried over the internet space pixel, they are real. Eve is real I was there getting that security deposit you dam spai There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:31:00 -
[167] - Quote
Andski wrote:I scam people in EVE, yes, but that doesn't mean that I'd do the same in real life. Why? Because you can literally lose everything in EVE but it doesn't matter after you log off.
Stop trying to project people's actions in a game to what they would do in RL. It's stupid.
Personally I've never said that and continue to say that doing evil things in EVE is not equatable to doing real evil things in real life because there are real life consequences most of the time.
I'm just saying that it is somewhat evil.
Why are you so afraid of saying "I am an evil player and I'm OK with it."?
Secondly, if you are not sad or upset with loss EVE why are you playing? If you don't care about winning or losing, then why play the game when you can just watch TV instead? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:32:00 -
[168] - Quote
My internet space pixel loss made me cry, I was forced to reevaluate my position of humanity in an internet space pixel environment.
This is terrible, and I have to navigate our terrible killboard to post for reimbursement. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:33:00 -
[169] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You don't appear to be able to separate reality from fantasy, I suggest you get that checked out, it's a common symptom of mental illness. Eve is a fantasy, the same as every other game, as well as films and books, they're entertainment, an escape from the reality of life.
I'll take that as a "No, Mayhaw Morgan, I don't actually know any people who society or I personally would classify as 'bad'.".
OK, so, if you don't have anyone to compare EVE players to, then how can you say one way or another that we are not being 'bad' by the things we do in game? You are speculating that our actions as players are devoid of moral significance, but you cannot say for certain because you have never seen an immoral decision in action. i.e. YOU are the one living in a fantasy world, where this mythical concept called "evil" exists in some far away place, committed by people who are completely unlike yourself and your friends. You have never actually looked at the WHY of a robbery or an assault or a homicide or even just someone littering. Therefore, you cannot say that it is in any way different than the decision to sit on a gate in low sec and just attack the first random person who comes through.
Does the idea of being an "evil" person or of playing with "evil" people bother you in some sense? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12735
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:36:00 -
[170] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: Doesn't being offended mean that someone has violated your sense of morality? Certainly if you didn't care about such comparisons and have no moral quandary with such actions, that you would have not been offended.
Nope, it's entirely possible to be offensive without violating morality. For example if I said that you were as dumb as a rock or as thick as pig manure, would it be your morals I offended, or your ego?
I find some people offensive because they smell funny, I find onions offensive because of the texture, I find politicians offensive for no reason other than being politicians, none of which violate my sense of morality in any way.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:36:00 -
[171] - Quote
Feel bad, you are bad! There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8654
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:37:00 -
[172] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Secondly, if you are not sad or upset with loss in EVE why are you playing? If you don't care about winning or losing, then why play the game when you can just watch TV instead?
Because getting hung up over losing an imaginary spaceship is dumb Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:37:00 -
[173] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: Doesn't being offended mean that someone has violated your sense of morality? Certainly if you didn't care about such comparisons and have no moral quandary with such actions, that you would have not been offended.
Nope, it's entirely possible to be offensive without violating morality. For example if I said that you were as dumb as a rock or as thick as pig manure, would it be your morals I offended, or your ego? I find some people offensive because they smell funny, I find onions offensive because of the texture, I find politicians offensive for no reason other than being politicians, none of which violate my sense of morality in any way. Politicians don't violate your sense or morality, eh.
That's reaching a bit, surely. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:38:00 -
[174] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Secondly, if you are not sad or upset with loss in EVE why are you playing? If you don't care about winning or losing, then why play the game when you can just watch TV instead? Because getting hung up over losing an imaginary spaceship is dumb Why watch TV when DBRB is much better entertainment? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:40:00 -
[175] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: Doesn't being offended mean that someone has violated your sense of morality? Certainly if you didn't care about such comparisons and have no moral quandary with such actions, that you would have not been offended.
Nope, it's entirely possible to be offensive without violating morality. For example if I said that you were as dumb as a rock or as thick as pig manure, would it be your morals I offended, or your ego? I find some people offensive because they smell funny, I find onions offensive because of the texture, I find politicians offensive for no reason other than being politicians, none of which violate my sense of morality in any way.
Yes but in his instance he compared you to morally questionable activities. he didn't insult you, but rather compared you to certain people who did immoral things. If you didn't think those activities were immoral, I don't think you would have gotten upset. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:41:00 -
[176] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Secondly, if you are not sad or upset with loss in EVE why are you playing? If you don't care about winning or losing, then why play the game when you can just watch TV instead? Because getting hung up over losing an imaginary spaceship is dumb
Ok. If you don't mind losing your ships, then you should contract your remaining ones over to me as you don't care about them.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4247
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:42:00 -
[177] - Quote
Eve online general discussion, actually a honeypot being watched by the thought police. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12740
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:08:00 -
[178] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote: Doesn't being offended mean that someone has violated your sense of morality? Certainly if you didn't care about such comparisons and have no moral quandary with such actions, that you would have not been offended.
Nope, it's entirely possible to be offensive without violating morality. For example if I said that you were as dumb as a rock or as thick as pig manure, would it be your morals I offended, or your ego? I find some people offensive because they smell funny, I find onions offensive because of the texture, I find politicians offensive for no reason other than being politicians, none of which violate my sense of morality in any way. Yes but in his instance he compared you to morally questionable activities. he didn't insult you, but rather compared you to certain people who did immoral things. If you didn't think those activities were immoral, I don't think you would have gotten upset. He trivialised some pretty offensive, and yes I'll admit it morally wrong acts, so that he could compare them to violence in a computer game. I found the trivialisation extremely offensive, if he had trivialised 9/11, 7/7 or WWI & II to the same extent I would have been just as offended.
Alavaria Fera wrote: Politicians don't violate your sense of morality, eh.
That's reaching a bit, surely.
You got me there. Game, set and match.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4248
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:10:00 -
[179] - Quote
Taking some space pixels away by means of 1400mm Howitzer Artillery turrets is like taking a life.
Stealing some space pixels is like ravaging a, well you know.
When you shoot a non-blue, it's like, well you also know, ~profiling~ or something There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12740
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:15:00 -
[180] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Taking some space pixels away by means of 1400mm Howitzer Artillery turrets is like taking a life.
Stealing some space pixels is like ravaging a, well you know.
When you shoot a non-blue, it's like, well you also know, ~profiling~ or something Don't forget, invading someone else's space makes you literally a tinpot failed house painter with a funny 'tache and a dodgy haircut.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4248
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:16:00 -
[181] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Taking some space pixels away by means of 1400mm Howitzer Artillery turrets is like taking a life.
Stealing some space pixels is like ravaging a, well you know.
When you shoot a non-blue, it's like, well you also know, ~profiling~ or something Don't forget, invading someone else's space makes you literally a tinpot failed house painter with a funny 'tache and a dodgy haircut. You're violently violating their ...
reinforcement timer.
I mean, they might be kicking and screaming as you rip apart the last structural hitpoints on those stations. The betrayal as the station flips to you, the loss of a TCU.
TEST, can you comment as to these very real and painful experiences? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4248
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:23:00 -
[182] - Quote
Let's all remember that noted EVEO poster had this to say about gankers, scammers, and other lowlifes etc etc in internet spaceships:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:no more noble or defensible than "She deserved it." or "Blacks/Jews/women/etc. aren't our equals." or "It was a war." There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12741
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:27:00 -
[183] - Quote
I'm wondering how long that part of his post will remain visible? I'm fairly certain that others will find it as offensive as I did and, unlike myself, report it as such.
IB4ISD
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4249
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:29:00 -
[184] - Quote
You know what, since you're so much better than me I will sacrifice myself to
actually I can't be bothered to find the post to report it. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:38:00 -
[185] - Quote
Why don't you just come out and say it?
"I enjoy harming others, even just emotionally. It gives me pleasure. But, if I do it in the real world directly, I may suffer harm in return, so I just do it through this video game."
Maybe you don't realize that many people who do "bad" things in the real world also have a moral code. Sometimes that code allows them to do their bad deeds outright. Sometimes they circumvent that moral code with clever little word games like by saying, "It's just a game." and "I deserve this." and "This is the last time.". I even know that some people like to "help" other people to circumvent their moral code or completely rewrite it altogether. Do you see anything analagous to that in EVE Online?
Alavaria Fera wrote:Taking some space pixels away by means of 1400mm Howitzer Artillery turrets is like taking a life.
Is pulling a trigger that much harder than clicking a mouse? Wouldn't you think the real difficulty was in justifying that action? My question, which you can't seem to answer is: How is the decision to do the first action different from the decision to do the second one? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4250
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:42:00 -
[186] - Quote
Enhanced interrogation is perfectly legal There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12742
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:47:00 -
[187] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote: Is pulling a trigger that much harder than clicking a mouse? Wouldn't you think the real difficulty was in justifying that action? My question, which you can't seem to answer is: How is the decision to do the first action different from the decision to do the second one?
Ahh trivialisation of a life changing decision, true to form.
In answer to your question, impact, one deprives someone of their life, the other deprives someone of a few pixels. The impact of the decision actually makes a difference to the way you make the decision, unless of course you have no respect for human life.
As I said earlier, you appear to have problems with the whole fantasy vs reality thing.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4250
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:48:00 -
[188] - Quote
No it isn't different. Feel bad, criminal scum. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4250
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:51:00 -
[189] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote: Is pulling a trigger that much harder than clicking a mouse? Wouldn't you think the real difficulty was in justifying that action? My question, which you can't seem to answer is: How is the decision to do the first action different from the decision to do the second one?
Ahh trivialisation of a life changing decision, true to form. In answer to your question, impact, one deprives someone of their life, the other deprives someone of a few pixels. The impact of the decision actually makes a difference to the way you make the decision, unless of course you have no respect for human life. As I said earlier, you appear to have problems with the whole fantasy vs reality thing. He's slipping.
Compare it to the launching of strategic-level weaponry with counter-value objectives. Press butan, ????
(Play Defcon) There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12742
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:55:00 -
[190] - Quote
OOO I forgot, If I pull the trigger in real life, you don't respawn, you're physically dead.
If I click the mouse and pop your ship, you're not dead, you can come back and try to return the favour, alternatively you can cry in local and refill my tear tank. Even if I pod you, you respawn in a clone vat, you're not dead, just mildly inconvenienced.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4250
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:56:00 -
[191] - Quote
Maybe he believes in reincarnation There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4250
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:56:00 -
[192] - Quote
Actually wow, does Defcon reward you for successfully launching against population centers? That's a really immoral game.
Quote:You play a General hidden deep within an underground bunker. Your mission is to successfully exterminate your enemy's civilian population whilst saving your own. Points are awarded or lost depending on both the efficacy and thoroughness of your nuclear vendetta and the number of your own civilian deaths. In order to win you must wipe out the enemy population and simultaneously disable the enemy's ability to retaliate against you.
That's actually rather harsh. Though no one is every sure is terms like "actually" and "literally" mean anything like actually and literally anymore on the internet. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12742
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:58:00 -
[193] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Actually wow, does Defcon reward you for successfully launching against population centers? That's a really immoral game. Rise of Nations rewards you for launching a nuclear strike at opponents that are still using the bow and arrow
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8654
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 07:06:00 -
[194] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:words
People of sound mind don't compare interactions in a video game to murder. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 07:08:00 -
[195] - Quote
It was just a simulation.
It was just an experiment.
Click your heels together three times and repeat these words, "It's just a game . . . It's just a game . . . It's just a game." |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12742
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 07:40:00 -
[196] - Quote
Irrelevant, again. Neither of your examples deal with computer games, both are experiments designed to see how people act under stress and in potential REAL LIFE situations.
When we're actually immortal, living in another universe, and can fly spaceships with our brains then you can use real life experiments such as those to illustrate a point.
Try harder.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 11:03:00 -
[197] - Quote
There are bad people. -> Some bad people play EVE Online. -> Do they do good in the game?
Some of you seem to me to be "pathological liars". Would you say that lying about the game is "bad", or in some sense immoral? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12756
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 11:12:00 -
[198] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:More grandiose prattle to feed the posters sense of self importance The only bad thing about Eve is that people like you are allowed to play it.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4251
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 11:42:00 -
[199] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Irrelevant, again. Neither of your examples deal with computer games, both were experiments designed to see how people act under duress and in potential REAL LIFE situations. I believe there was considerable debate about the ethics of such experiments at the time, they were deemed unethical. When we're actually immortal, living in another universe, and can fly spaceships with our brains, then you can use real life experiments such as those to illustrate a point about morality. Try harder. He's already a tryhard, no point. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Zappity
Kurved Space
335
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 11:43:00 -
[200] - Quote
This is all far too metaphysical for me. It's simple, really:
Actions in game are not real. A person's response to those actions IS real.
Your in-game actions can make someone happy. You actions can make someone sad.
Whether their emotional response to what happens in a game is appropriate or not (well, it's not) is immaterial. They still have a negative experience. And you choose to cause it. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4255
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 12:06:00 -
[201] - Quote
This thread is a negative experience. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 16:49:00 -
[202] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:This thread is a negative experience.
This thread is why it should be illegal to get halfway through Ethics 101 and then rush to some forums to unleash your ~realtalk~ concerning video game morality. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:21:00 -
[203] - Quote
I'm still waiting for people to contract me all their ships because no one is supposed to have any attachment to them nor get upset when they lose them. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4255
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:41:00 -
[204] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:This thread is a negative experience. This thread is why it should be illegal to get halfway through Ethics 101 and then rush to some forums to unleash your ~realtalk~ concerning video game morality. That's the forums are about though. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1586
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:04:00 -
[205] - Quote
Andski wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. 34 years old. 10 years in IT/Tech support. 2 years in a supervisor position. Worked for and with a few fortune 500 companies.
If you just want to call anyone that has a unique opinion on the meaning of morality a 12 year old to make yourself feel better about rationalizing your own views then I guess go right ahead. There isn't much I can do for you to help you see the world in a different light. You might want to try some capitalization and punctuation though. I hear the young people don't like to use that on their tweets. so playing a game in accordance to its rules is immoral thank you for setting my moral compass straight, Captain "the guy who ganked my hulk should be fired from his job irl" Tardbar Stranger things have happened with employers. Especially at the "management team" level, where they do team-building retreats, leadership-building seminars, that kind of stuff. Seven Habits of Effective People, whatever. Senior managers/owner who believe in that kind of stuff are trying to make themselves and their team into the ultimate go-getters-leaders-achievers. A little revelation about somebody's personal traits, or their outside activities can have significant effects on how he/she's viewed by the big bosses. And therefore their future in that organization. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:43:00 -
[206] - Quote
Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
335
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:43:00 -
[207] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:This thread is a negative experience. This thread is why it should be illegal to get halfway through Ethics 101 and then rush to some forums to unleash your ~realtalk~ concerning video game morality.
Uh huh. Very good.
Aryth wrote:Be sure to send me any EVEmails you get with crying. I do so love suffering.
Maybe you should have a chat with him. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 22:28:00 -
[208] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something.
You are trying way too hard dude.
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 22:38:00 -
[209] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something. You are trying way too hard dude.
I don't know. I was trying to get a carrier out of this. Certainly losing such a ship wouldn't bother you? You can even contract it in Goons space. I'll use my Goon contact to go get it. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4259
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 22:53:00 -
[210] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something. You are trying way too hard dude. You're not worth it. A newbee got the ship instead There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
|
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 23:08:00 -
[211] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Rhes wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Nope. No one even bothered to contract me a shuttle. I guess everyone must be too attached to their ships or something. You are trying way too hard dude. You're not worth it. A newbee got the ship instead
Awww. And now you passed up your chance to prove you were right. Now I'll never know if you really didn't care about your ships.
So to me all the evidence I can take from this is that you really care about your ships and wealth because you can't bring yourself to give any of it to me. I bother you so much that you can't bring yourself to prove yourself right by the simple fact of handing over a few (but expensive) ships.
So let the truth be known...
Goons would be upset if I took their stuff. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 23:28:00 -
[212] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Goons would be upset if I took their stuff.
You don't "get" Goons, do you?
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
2013
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 23:53:00 -
[213] - Quote
Wow. Just read this end-to-end.
I'm laughing so hard my dogs are looking at me funny. Well, funnier than they normally do, at any rate. The sheer... Damn. I don't have the right word for it... Asshattery will have to do. Yeah, That's it. The sheer asshattery of some of the posts makes me wonder is this isn't some kind of very carefully calculated and utterly brilliant troll. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8656
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 00:32:00 -
[214] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I was trying to get a carrier out of this.
you can only use those in scary space, i.e. the place where all of the inhabitants are immoral people, so you wouldn't have much use for one Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
164
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 01:21:00 -
[215] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Stranger things have happened with employers. Especially at the "management team" level, where they do team-building retreats, leadership-building seminars, that kind of stuff. Seven Habits of Effective People, whatever. Senior managers/owner who believe in that kind of stuff are trying to make themselves and their team into the ultimate go-getters-leaders-achievers. A little revelation about somebody's personal traits, or their outside activities can have significant effects on how he/she's viewed by the big bosses. And therefore their future in that organization.
Edit: "Is that that internet spaceship game with players all around the world? There was an article about that in the New York Times a while back. Apparently it's very vicious. You play that? Interesting...." Sad but true, you give up privacy for the privilege of working for someone, to whatever degree.
Someone sounds like a serious sycophant.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4260
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 02:37:00 -
[216] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote:Stranger things have happened with employers. Especially at the "management team" level, where they do team-building retreats, leadership-building seminars, that kind of stuff. Seven Habits of Effective People, whatever. Senior managers/owner who believe in that kind of stuff are trying to make themselves and their team into the ultimate go-getters-leaders-achievers. A little revelation about somebody's personal traits, or their outside activities can have significant effects on how he/she's viewed by the big bosses. And therefore their future in that organization.
Edit: "Is that that internet spaceship game with players all around the world? There was an article about that in the New York Times a while back. Apparently it's very vicious. You play that? Interesting...." Sad but true, you give up privacy for the privilege of working for someone, to whatever degree. Someone sounds like a serious sycophant. BE SCARED, EVE WILL DESTROY YOU There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
464
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 03:47:00 -
[217] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Wow. Just read this end-to-end.
I'm laughing so hard my dogs are looking at me funny. Well, funnier than they normally do, at any rate. The sheer... Damn. I don't have the right word for it... Asshattery will have to do. Yeah, That's it. The sheer asshattery of some of the posts makes me wonder is this isn't some kind of very carefully calculated and utterly brilliant troll.
Well. I've learned my lesson that if I ever admit that I am a troll that someone will get mad and get ISD to delete all my posts in the thread deleting the hilariousness.
So I have to come out and say that I am not a troll and that I genuinely beleive what I say to poeple.
Which I am saying is the case now.... That I am being very serious when I say the things that I am saying.
I do have a confession though.
Someone in this thread is my alt. Also, I post because I have an audience outside of GD who secretly get a kick out of my posts. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
164
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 06:37:00 -
[218] - Quote
Shocker! Hurr... *slow clap*
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KnowUsByTheDead
Knights of the Dark Rose Black Crescent Inc.
174
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 07:34:00 -
[219] - Quote
I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread...is this Goon hate propaganda?
I have seen that The Mittani is Machiavellian, so I saw Napoleon and just assumed.
Am I correct? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12778
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:29:00 -
[220] - Quote
Especially for the people banging on about how you act in a game is a reflection on how you act in life.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4262
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:51:00 -
[221] - Quote
Always goonhate
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:no more noble or defensible than "She deserved it." or "Blacks/Jews/women/etc. aren't our equals." or "It was a war." There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 10:11:00 -
[222] - Quote
I want to say this is like arguing with children, but I have had this very conversation with children. They didn't have any problem understanding the point.
Being "good" is harder than being "bad". Bad people will try to destroy even the very concept of "good"ness, because it is a threat to their way of doing things, and by extension, that makes it a threat to themselves. They will do that by ridicule, by deception, by trivialization, by coercion, by force, and by whatever other means they have available. They will do it in war time. In peace time. In real life. In a game. About the future. About the past. Under any circumstance.
It takes courage or curiosity or something to make us look at ourselves in the mirror and see ourselves for the monster we are. Some of us have never done it before. Some of us will NEVER do it. We will just continue parading around in our gorilla suits or our prison guard uniform or our spaceship outfit, excusing ourself for our inability to do better, because, after all, there is no "better" in a game. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2398
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 14:31:00 -
[223] - Quote
Quote:22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting. Thread closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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