Does this mean that all 90% webs are going the **** away?

Because that would be awesome.

Also this is so weird i dont' really have an opinon on it... But this is definitely better than dedicated mission ships/bs's with t2 res like i was expecting.


Edit: Ok actually one thing

Why the flying freck is it acceptable to have blasters hitting up to 50 km? what the ****?

GÇóExtends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%

why just falloff and not optimal range? does this not give a big boost to arty/blaster setups and not much for rails and lazors?

Color me somewhat skeptical. Got a battle-report or two to throw my way?

I also feel it's worth noting that T3s were at worst half the cost of Marauders and are currently running about 1/3rd to 1/4th the cost.

They're also being saved till last on the balancing chopping block which would indicate CCP find them to be a particularly thorny issue which is backed up by comments from CCP and the CSM.

I think I'm going to go with "and that's fine" I just don't think it's likely to happen with these. Since it looks like CCP are going to rebalance Pirate Battleships more for raw DPS and a bit of maneuverability I'd say that they're a more likely candidate for the next FOTM fleet than these are. We're already seeing Rattlesnakes being used in relatively small numbers. As you said though, the CFC phased out the Tempest Fleet Issue doctrine for a reason. On the flip-side we've seen T1 BS fleets survive through everything the Meta has thrown at them.

I think the big difference between Marauders and T3s, Faction ships, and various Battlecruiser doctrines is that the latter are relatively low skill where as the former are going to be fairly SP intensive to fly well. Regardless of cost you still need pilots with the SP to make a doctrine work. So, even if someone does find a hilariously powerful fleet role for these ships (which I'm having a hard time believing right at the moment) the skills required to fit and fly them effectively are going to stop them from being fielded in large numbers by most parties.

If they end up filling up a few squads in a specialist role in fleets then... well great? They've found a Niche PvP roll in the things that make Eve famous, large fleet fights. Why should anyone be mad about that? If you don't like them then don't train for them.

Since Marauders currently run you about .8-1.1 billion and demand (and price) for them seems like it's going to shoot up after these changes that only supports the other half of my argument that there's very little risk of these becoming FOTM in Null (or anywhere else in PvP).

How the hell does a PVPer catch this thing if it can MJD out of trouble every single time?

"Microwarp drives immune from the effects of warp scramblers."

That is MASSIVE!

A 1 billion isk marauder in an ihub bash? I'll give you 2 minutes before you're hot-dropped.

So the marauder can now be deemed worthless to pvp?

minus drone bay
minus webs
minus sensor strength
minus HP
minus ability to move with its bonus(What fool fights a fight sitting at zero speed?)

In the future I picture a brand new category being brought to the market labeled PVE SHIPS. Marauders will be the first type in there and their name will have no relation to their actual purpose.

A web to apply damage within 12 km, when my main weapon system has an optimal/falloff out to 100 km.

Incursion whining killed what would have been an amazing change to Marauders. Bring back the original iteration, please!

I also agree with this persons statement. This will make shields extremely over powered. While armor will be left in the dust.
Unless there is some kind of fix i don't see this going well in terms of rebalancing.

Ships are designed to perform a task, or execute a tactic. Kiter, brawler, logistics, tackler, booster are roles. Marauder is a role, and it's a new role with no existing meta in game- there are no functional T2 general combat battleships in game currently. This is what CCP is trying to do, and if they succeed, people will adopt it, metas emerge and then also EVE happens- ship finds other uses.

I think that's by design. The only T2 "general combat" ships in the game are HACs, and for some reason CCP decided to give them a free pass for historical reasons rather than specializing them.

My cerb v your caracal, let's do this

PvE players disagree - as one, I'm eager to say that I don't want to lose the only dedicated PvE-boat available. If you want to make an anti-cap BS, make a new line of battleships for it. TY!

The first Vargur iteration could local tank three sieged dreads. The Golem could tank four.

With 2x XLASBs and links you could get a >25000 DPS tank on the original Vargur with the 30% stacking resist thing. Volley damage on a dread is like 40-50k? You could get more shield EHP than that and XLASBs cycle faster than dreads shoot.

ok I understand.. for chatting and just communicating with internet spaceship people in these forums is one thing but lets try to help out CCP here by telling what we want - not what this or that setup coulda woulda do in theory only etc

do you want marauder to be able tank dread short time? I dont..
I really doupt that you want it either :P

You need to define what is it. Currently a marauder is a T2 ship that deliberately can't battle. You're suggesting you want to change the purpose of the ship class.

I don't disagree that T2 brawling battleships might be interesting, but PVE marauders are probably not a good place to start.

Well, the Marauder class already haves a damage bonus (+100%), that's why I didn't suggested to top alpha damage...

Marauders have plenty of damage, Damage application bonuses are much better served for there function.

and finally, please don't keep the universal webbing bonus, that is a very bland flavor.

The bonus itself isnt bland, its the lack a variety across the class.

No racial flavor = bland.

A stationary weapon, whose target is 20km away.

With 1.1 out max range boost on a web is 34.5%, range on fed navy web = 14km.

14 * 1.345 = 18.83km

Is constant OH practical for solo PvE operation? Does it even match up on a ship that specializes in instantly transporting itself 100km then projecting damage at extreme ranges?

I'm still trying to figure out why a Golem with cruise missiles needs webifier bonuses. I'm not saying that it shouldn't, I'm just lost as to why any thought process would lead to this. For the love of baby Joveus can someone explain it to me?

Sometimes I wonder how people can use CNR's, nightmares, machs and vindicators for lv 4's without those tank-bonuses..

The hilarious thing is that people who point out the pirate ship's tanks are really only emphasizing how bad these marauder proposals are. Tanks is the only thing Marauders have going for them and now that is getting nerfed on the base hulls. I mean, lets be serious, given this proposal who wants to actually trade their pirate BS for a Marauder?

Primary use currently yes, which is a result of the Triumvirate of Terribad- L4 runners being terribad, the ships being terribad and L4s being terribad.

Making marauders better can't cure L4 runners or the missions and it's clear that straightforward buffs won't make marauders worse for L4s (it might force L4 runners to rethink, refit and adapt, which seems to be a major issue) but it can expand their use to other areas, and possibly even encourage L4 runners to something else for a change.

As it's been said numerous times, any T1 ship can run L4s efficiently- they should not be used as a yardstick for high performance ships. I'm personally eyeing marauders in PVE context as the default option for C3/4s and L5s, as well as plexing. The rationale behind is this- if you can solo content more efficiently than T3s with the same price tag, it's worth the risk, and if you can solo content where a carrier is viable, it's certainly less risky to use a battleship.

In case of solo or small gang PVE in wormholes, mass is pretty much irrelevant. Leaving out running home sites, jumping a couple of battleships with scouts and Noctis thru a C3/4 several times doesn't close the hole, and you'll close it on purpose anyway after it's done. For wh PVP mass remains a consideration, and naturally marauders won't replace T3s as the rank & file ship, but if the rebalancing succeeds they might have a special role in fleets.

Subcaps are not supposed to outperform capitals in tank/dps, smaller hulls just have other advantages.

Ideally rebalancing makes marauders better for demanding PVE, and viable for some areas of PVP. I seriously doubt succeeding in these would make them worse for L4s.

Leave RR in and lets see how it gets used if it's op and everyone starts using it with local and remote reps then put in a negative remote rep modifier.

That's probably one of the better ideas so far. would make a fleet of 2 or 3 marauders a worthy addition to an incursion fleet

Yeah the Rokh and Abaddon are awesome PvP Ships.

PS: And the Gallente Ships do have some Major backdraws in large Fleets...

So....CCP...any more comments on this mess, or are these stats now engraved in wet concrete, and we will see them on Sisi soon?

I've never flown a marauder.

But, looking at the description, I would like to put my own thoughts on what I'd like to see in a pvp version of a ship "designed for prolonged deployment in hostile space."

1) A Bastion bonus to the range of warp disruptors, something like 100km or similar.
Reasoning- Bastion makes an already big slow ship, bigger and immobile. It's hard to specialize in harassing tactics far behind enemy lines, if you are big and slow and can't hold down anything you try to take out.

2) Marauder roll ability to self fit in space, similar to carriers.
Reasoning- A long deployment ship is going to need to be more versatile than the average spacechip. Having the ability to quickly (and without needing to deploy an easily scannable deployable depot) switch between combat, scanning, and travel fits would be useful.

3) Marauder roll ability to reprocess ore (albeit inefficiently)and manufacture ammunition and cap booster charges.
Yeah it's wild and crazy, but I'm looking forward to a Marilyn's Marauders version of pvp that takes long deployments in hostile space to the extreme.

As long as y'all are begging for damage bonuses, speed boosts, and a complete overhaul for the vargur and torpedoes; I thought I'd go ahead and mail my Christmas wish list in as well.