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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Zillu Ban
Dirty Old Bastards Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2013.09.07 13:01:00 -
[3091] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote: Bastion doesn't have a damage bonus, why would you use these for structure bashing?
Bad reading comprehension?
Sorry, I may not have made it clear. I was saying that the Marauder would have a niche so small people most likely won't even bother training for them. I was comparing it to the dread, which has the 2 purposes of structure and capital bashing.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
34
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:04:00 -
[3092] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Do we get completely new ship models?
Just redone?
Or maybe not even touched?
How complicated animation will be? This id love to know. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:12:00 -
[3093] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Let me clarify the situation for you : Is the target within 13km ? - yes : web and kill ; MJD out. - no : MJD out.
These things will have the best subcap tank, and rival the best subcap firepower, and that's without bastion. With MJD, they have a very good mobility, either to go in or out of a field of battle, whatever the range they need, because the web bonus allow to pin down anything and melt it in seconds if it come too close.
These things will be very hard to kill I'm afraid, without a good fleet. Or maybe it's a stealth Keres buff ?
and in what eve world there is even slightest chance that you can execute either of those options?
99.9% there will be another factor that neglects whole "new" marauder bastion stuff and it ends up being "warp warp warp warp fast safespot plzplzplzplz warp nauuuuuu!"
in theory it's cool situational story bro |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3342
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:13:00 -
[3094] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote: That's fine, to my mind. But dropping the Marauder's rep bonus for T2 resists is not. It favours tanking some rats, and leaves you with shite performance against others (and some missions where, eg, Angels employ EM turrets, etc). This isn't always sufficient to realistically rely on bastion; you just get 2 effective reppers and the same achilles heel resist holes.
That is what this hooplah is about.
Bastion mode and everything is more or less fine in iteration 2. The real problem has been the gutting of the rep bonus for useless webs and applying T2 resists. This benefits nothing.
They had to gut it because it was OP for niche situations and of very limited use outside those situations. Replacing it with T2 expands marauder usability, while still keeping bastion tanking viable. It works much better with logi now.
I can see how the web bonus is useless for LR fits, but it's extremely powerful on close range fits.
T2 resists and webs benefit PVP applications.
90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
483
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:26:00 -
[3095] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:Sometimes I wonder how people can use CNR's, nightmares, machs and vindicators for lv 4's without those tank-bonuses.. The hilarious thing is that people who point out the pirate ship's tanks are really only emphasizing how bad these marauder proposals are. Tanks is the only thing Marauders have going for them and now that is getting nerfed on the base hulls. I mean, lets be serious, given this proposal who wants to actually trade their pirate BS for a Marauder?
My exact point earlier
Make the maraders slightly toned down pirate BSs......
problem. solved. |
MBizon Osis
State War Academy Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:36:00 -
[3096] - Quote
What ever happens to the marauder class it will prolly be a mostly pve boat (due to price tag) and as such will have lots of wrecks to clean up. If the MJD is used to any extent the wrecks might be widely spread(100+km). I know a lot of posters in this threadnought either want the tractor bonus expanded to be useful or eliminated altogether.
Proponents of tractor beam bonus elimination have stated that have a 2nd ship (noctis) is the way it's done. Using a 2nd account or going back for the 2nd ship adds more time to missions for sure. I use salvage drones myself. Maybe they believe cutting a bonus they don't want frees up room for one they do want? Personally my 2nd account started off as a noctis driver. After a awhile I came to realize that I still can't safely run a lvl4 and salvage at the same time. Having your single account have to go and get your noctis to come back and salvage/loot adds half again more time to each mission. Dual boxing with 2 accounts running a mission and salvaging on the other can be done but not all of us have the set up for that. Adding the 4th high slot to the marauders as part of re-balancing them gives us a chance to see if expanding the salvaging/tractor beam bonus might be for the greater good. As the fastest way to salvage would be on the fly as you are making wrecks. (Role Bonus:500% bonus to tractor beam range and 100% bonus to tractor beam velocity(orca) 100km or Marauder Skill Bonus:5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level (noctis) 96km @ lvl5 or Role Bonus: 99% reduction in the powergrid need, 50% reduction in the capacitor need, and 50% reduction in the CPU need of Capital Tractor Beams. They are able to fit Cap Tracks due to significant reductions in the powergrid, CPU and capacitor requirements for these mods.750pg,55cpu,100JG cap(like tier 3 BCs) 200km
Please consider these options as the bonus and it stands now is weak and needs a buff. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3344
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:41:00 -
[3097] - Quote
MBizon Osis wrote:What ever happens to the marauder class it will prolly be a mostly pve boat (due to price tag)
Like T3s, pirate ships and capitals?
90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á |
MBizon Osis
State War Academy Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:49:00 -
[3098] - Quote
Roime wrote:MBizon Osis wrote:What ever happens to the marauder class it will prolly be a mostly pve boat (due to price tag) Like T3s, pirate ships and capitals?
The caps I can't say as I don't fly em, but the rest do a lot of pve and your point?
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NextDarkKnight
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:55:00 -
[3099] - Quote
Wait, So if I am to understand this correctly.. The v2 changes require you to have the new module fitted to the ship? I would still like consideration for a small drone bay only when the new module is fitted so players have CHOICE of how they want to fit there ship out. Won't removing the boost rate hurt people not using the module to the point of the ship not being a option? |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3344
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:57:00 -
[3100] - Quote
MBizon Osis wrote:Roime wrote:MBizon Osis wrote:What ever happens to the marauder class it will prolly be a mostly pve boat (due to price tag) Like T3s, pirate ships and capitals? The caps I can't say as I don't fly em, but the rest do a lot of pve and your point?
That pricetag doesn't make ships "mostly PVE", marauders aren't especially expensive compared to normal T3 fits, and nothing compared to pirate BS fits or caps.
90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1741
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 13:59:00 -
[3101] - Quote
Roime wrote:Trinkets friend wrote: That's fine, to my mind. But dropping the Marauder's rep bonus for T2 resists is not. It favours tanking some rats, and leaves you with shite performance against others (and some missions where, eg, Angels employ EM turrets, etc). This isn't always sufficient to realistically rely on bastion; you just get 2 effective reppers and the same achilles heel resist holes.
That is what this hooplah is about.
Bastion mode and everything is more or less fine in iteration 2. The real problem has been the gutting of the rep bonus for useless webs and applying T2 resists. This benefits nothing.
They had to gut it because it was OP for niche situations and of very limited use outside those situations. Replacing it with T2 expands marauder usability, while still keeping bastion tanking viable. It works much better with logi now. I can see how the web bonus is useless for LR fits, but it's extremely powerful on close range fits. T2 resists and webs benefit PVP applications.
Close range fits for a ship with MJD and extended range bonus? And then sacrifice tank for that "short range effectiveness"? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:07:00 -
[3102] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Roime wrote:Trinkets friend wrote: That's fine, to my mind. But dropping the Marauder's rep bonus for T2 resists is not. It favours tanking some rats, and leaves you with shite performance against others (and some missions where, eg, Angels employ EM turrets, etc). This isn't always sufficient to realistically rely on bastion; you just get 2 effective reppers and the same achilles heel resist holes.
That is what this hooplah is about.
Bastion mode and everything is more or less fine in iteration 2. The real problem has been the gutting of the rep bonus for useless webs and applying T2 resists. This benefits nothing.
They had to gut it because it was OP for niche situations and of very limited use outside those situations. Replacing it with T2 expands marauder usability, while still keeping bastion tanking viable. It works much better with logi now. I can see how the web bonus is useless for LR fits, but it's extremely powerful on close range fits. T2 resists and webs benefit PVP applications. Close range fits for a ship with MJD and extended range bonus? And then sacrifice tank for that "short range effectiveness"?
I would say Long-Range fits with the option to effectively brawl, and suddenly, it all makes sense, doesn't it? |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3344
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:10:00 -
[3103] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Close range fits for a ship with MJD and extended range bonus? And then sacrifice tank for that "short range effectiveness"?
Yep, MJD that can be used after each bastion cycle allows you to instantly blink to the next spawn, and the extended range extends the effective range of brawler fits. You have better tank due to the resists and bonuses, which allows you to fit a web. And it doesn't affect the tank or armor marauders.
90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:13:00 -
[3104] - Quote
Roime wrote:That pricetag doesn't make ships "mostly PVE", marauders aren't especially expensive compared to normal T3 fits, and nothing compared to pirate BS fits or caps.
wowowowowowo wooooooooooooooo... I can get 2,5 random T3 ships for 1.1bil you better check market before posting. |
Nano Quantum
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:18:00 -
[3105] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Roime wrote:Trinkets friend wrote: That's fine, to my mind. But dropping the Marauder's rep bonus for T2 resists is not. It favours tanking some rats, and leaves you with shite performance against others (and some missions where, eg, Angels employ EM turrets, etc). This isn't always sufficient to realistically rely on bastion; you just get 2 effective reppers and the same achilles heel resist holes.
That is what this hooplah is about.
Bastion mode and everything is more or less fine in iteration 2. The real problem has been the gutting of the rep bonus for useless webs and applying T2 resists. This benefits nothing.
They had to gut it because it was OP for niche situations and of very limited use outside those situations. Replacing it with T2 expands marauder usability, while still keeping bastion tanking viable. It works much better with logi now. I can see how the web bonus is useless for LR fits, but it's extremely powerful on close range fits. T2 resists and webs benefit PVP applications. Close range fits for a ship with MJD and extended range bonus? And then sacrifice tank for that "short range effectiveness"? I would say Long-Range fits with the option to effectively brawl, and suddenly, it all makes sense, doesn't it? Only for half the marauders it does. Kronos and Paladin have viable close range fits. Golem torp fits are downright crap in comparison to a Kronos short range fit. Golem with cruise is really the best way to go and only way less you are "special".A Kronos short range fit out ranges Golem torp fit. Less they make substantial changes to the missiles launcher weapons systems via xxx buff modification. If you are brawling with a long range fit you are doing it wrong anyway and should lose your ship for using ill advised tactics not for ill advised pvp rebalance of your ship. Torps need to be improved otherwise a web bonus goes to waste on the Golem and the bonus out to be an explosion velocity one instead of webs to have the same desired effect but actually being of some help. |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:22:00 -
[3106] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Warlord Cybrid wrote:As it stands right now i get almost double the amount of DPS with my skills vs being in a marauder. You're doing exactly the same dps in marauder as in t-1 battleship. Paladin: 4 turrets *100% = 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Abaddon: 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Kronos: 4 turrets *100% = 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Hyperion: 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Caldari navy raven: 8 launchers Golem: 4 * 100% = 8 launchers Vargur: 4 * 100% = 8 + 25%rof = 10.664 Maelstrom: 8 + 25%rof = 10.664 You see you do the same damage as t-1 battleship.
My favored maraduer stats is, their ridiculous low sensor strenghts. 11 for Vargur ? :P Megalol Nice PVP stat for dumbs.
"We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE, and as such we wish to expand their use to PvP as well." ROTFL
But now the new idiotism of CCP, create bastion modules for them aka. Siege mode:
" When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec"
This is the new ISK sinking idea ? Easy targets for SBs and fast billions sinking to refuse bin? Bravo, the CCP can suprise me with their new and new dumb ideas.
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Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3344
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:23:00 -
[3107] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Roime wrote:That pricetag doesn't make ships "mostly PVE", marauders aren't especially expensive compared to normal T3 fits, and nothing compared to pirate BS fits or caps.
wowowowowowo wooooooooooooooo... I can get 2,5 random T3 ships for 1.1bil you better check market before posting.
wowoowowowoowowoooooo common T3 PVP fits cost 1-1.2bil
90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:28:00 -
[3108] - Quote
Roime wrote:CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Roime wrote:That pricetag doesn't make ships "mostly PVE", marauders aren't especially expensive compared to normal T3 fits, and nothing compared to pirate BS fits or caps.
wowowowowowo wooooooooooooooo... I can get 2,5 random T3 ships for 1.1bil you better check market before posting. wowoowowowoowowoooooo common T3 PVP fits cost 1-1.2bil
showme
and then show me same cheap marauder pvp viable fit
and dont forget tons of more expensive rigs |
Nano Quantum
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:30:00 -
[3109] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:Spc One wrote:Warlord Cybrid wrote:As it stands right now i get almost double the amount of DPS with my skills vs being in a marauder. You're doing exactly the same dps in marauder as in t-1 battleship. Paladin: 4 turrets *100% = 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Abaddon: 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Kronos: 4 turrets *100% = 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Hyperion: 8 turrets + 25% = 10 turrets Caldari navy raven: 8 launchers Golem: 4 * 100% = 8 launchers Vargur: 4 * 100% = 8 + 25%rof = 10.664 Maelstrom: 8 + 25%rof = 10.664 You see you do the same damage as t-1 battleship. My favored maraduer stats is, their ridiculous low sensor strenghts. 11 for Vargur ? :P Megalol Nice PVP stat for dumbs. "We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE, and as such we wish to expand their use to PvP as well." ROTFL But now the new idiotism of CCP, create bastion modules for them aka. Siege mode: " When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec" This is the new ISK sinking idea ? Easy targets for SBs and fast billions sinking to refuse bin? Bravo, the CCP can suprise me with their new and new dumb ideas. Yeah I agree regardless of whether bastion mode makes you immune to e-war creating such a heavily unbalanced sensor strength was the main reason they don't see much PVP action in the first place. Unless the ships are given base T1 sensor strengths which would make some sense. Yeah the factions all decided to create a ship that will fight behind enemy lines yet not be able to fire cause they can't lock a damn target. I'm sure someone will come along and make some humorous yet spot on of the marauder back story in the description.
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Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3344
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:31:00 -
[3110] - Quote
wowowowoowowwooo 90% of EVE-O posts are read in Cartman voice by the common screen reader programs.-á |
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:34:00 -
[3111] - Quote
Nano Quantum wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Roime wrote:Trinkets friend wrote: That's fine, to my mind. But dropping the Marauder's rep bonus for T2 resists is not. It favours tanking some rats, and leaves you with shite performance against others (and some missions where, eg, Angels employ EM turrets, etc). This isn't always sufficient to realistically rely on bastion; you just get 2 effective reppers and the same achilles heel resist holes.
That is what this hooplah is about.
Bastion mode and everything is more or less fine in iteration 2. The real problem has been the gutting of the rep bonus for useless webs and applying T2 resists. This benefits nothing.
They had to gut it because it was OP for niche situations and of very limited use outside those situations. Replacing it with T2 expands marauder usability, while still keeping bastion tanking viable. It works much better with logi now. I can see how the web bonus is useless for LR fits, but it's extremely powerful on close range fits. T2 resists and webs benefit PVP applications. Close range fits for a ship with MJD and extended range bonus? And then sacrifice tank for that "short range effectiveness"? I would say Long-Range fits with the option to effectively brawl, and suddenly, it all makes sense, doesn't it? Only for half the marauders it does. Kronos and Paladin have viable close range fits. Golem torp fits are downright crap in comparison to a Kronos short range fit. Golem with cruise is really the best way to go and only way less you are "special".A Kronos short range fit out ranges Golem torp fit. Less they make substantial changes to the missiles launcher weapons systems via xxx buff modification. If you are brawling with a long range fit you are doing it wrong anyway and should lose your ship for using ill advised tactics not for ill advised pvp rebalance of your ship. Torps need to be improved otherwise a web bonus goes to waste on the Golem and the bonus out to be an explosion velocity one instead of webs to have the same desired effect but actually being of some help.
Don't know if you have noticed that close range turrets can reach amazing distances in bastion, and with bastion, it's not so unlikely that you will end up in close range situations - that's where the MJD shines. If you're pointed, get rid of it with webs..
Yes, the Torp-Golem is kinda crappy with these changes, but still - Javelins will reach excessive range for torps too.
Thus, marauders are actually valid longe-range plattforms with these changes, even in close combat situations. Can't see why it's so hard to see the concept..
Snipe aslong as you can, tank a heavy beating if someone comes close, kill the point and MJD away. AND yes, this is a nice concept imho. It allmost looks like a solo pwn-mobile with solid counters (ECM drones (LOL) and neuts/Alpha).
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:35:00 -
[3112] - Quote
Roime wrote:wowowowoowowwooo
You know it? :D |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:36:00 -
[3113] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:Yes, the Torp-Golem is kinda crappy with these changes, but still - Javelins will reach excessive range for torps too.
there is no reason to use javelin torp over simple T2 cruise. Sadly. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
497
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:37:00 -
[3114] - Quote
Zillu Ban wrote:Sorry, I may not have made it clear. I was saying that the Marauder would have a niche so small people most likely won't even bother training for them. I was comparing it to the dread, which has the 2 purposes of structure and capital bashing. Dreads are used against anything given proper web support.
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:showme Just check out WH killboards. The point is not that marauders are going to be cheaper, the point is that 1+ bil price tag won't stop anyone if the thing in question is really good for some given environement.
TravelBuoy wrote:This is the new ISK sinking idea ? Easy targets for SBs and fast billions sinking to refuse bin? Bravo, the CCP can suprise me with their new and new dumb ideas. Tell me how this can sink any ISK and not mode it to people who produce ships. Unless CCP secretly seed them at the markets
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:there is no reason to use javelin torp over simple T2 cruise. Sadly. Well, you don't swap launchers on the fly. Other than that, I see your point. |
marVLs
400
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:49:00 -
[3115] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:Yes, the Torp-Golem is kinda crappy with these changes, but still - Javelins will reach excessive range for torps too. there is no reason to use javelin torp over simple T2 cruise. Sadly.
That's why i would like to change Golem bonuses only for torps
At least 20% per level torps velo
It's really bad that to match even not enough range You must fit all rigs with velo rigs... Not even in bastion range will be satisfied...
Someone can say: so use cruise missiles. True, they're awesome right now, but torps need love, they're used only on bombers, and only because that's forced.
Maybe if CCP is planning to bring to us missile mods like tracking computers, then change TP bonus for that missile tracking computer thing bonus ;) |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:52:00 -
[3116] - Quote
marVLs wrote:CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:Yes, the Torp-Golem is kinda crappy with these changes, but still - Javelins will reach excessive range for torps too. there is no reason to use javelin torp over simple T2 cruise. Sadly. That's why i would like to change Golem bonuses only for torps At least 20% per level torps velo It's really bad that to match even not enough range You must fit all rigs with velo rigs... Not even in bastion range will be satisfied... Someone can say: so use cruise missiles. True, they're awesome right now, but torps need love, they're used only on bombers, and only because that's forced. Maybe if CCP is planning to bring to us missile mods like tracking computers, then change TP bonus for that missile tracking computer thing bonus ;)
well, CCP Rise gave us a hint on new modules for missiles - let's wait what those will do.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1507
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 15:13:00 -
[3117] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: We wish to expand their use to PvP as well. Of course, their high price, low mobility will always ensure their role remains a niche one
What happened to this? It would seem as this progresses people want there PVP role to be more and more predominant. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 15:20:00 -
[3118] - Quote
what about removing the web bonus and give a 10% target painter bonus per level instead? a BS shouldnt even use a web because it is so slow to get close to anyone in the first place. A target painter give you so much more range and helps tracking so much better. |
Wolfgang Achari
Morior Invictus. The Retirement Club
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 15:20:00 -
[3119] - Quote
Why not roll the web bonus into the Sebastian module, but make it a range bonus. This way you can give a rep bonus back to the marauders, but instead of doing rep amount bonus why not provide a 7.5% nanite usage bonus for AAR's and a 6% cap booster capacity bonus to ASB's? Keeping the 100% bonus in Sebastian mode. Combined with a proper T2 resist profile you give players a reason to still use normal reps, but give them a good advantage when using charged reps. |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 15:31:00 -
[3120] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:TravelBuoy wrote:This is the new ISK sinking idea ? Easy targets for SBs and fast billions sinking to refuse bin? Bravo, the CCP can suprise me with their new and new dumb ideas. Tell me how this can sink any ISK and not mode it to people who produce ships. Unless CCP secretly seed them at the markets
Easy to say, go with this ship to pvping and when you lost an over 1billions value of ship u will see, which is the fast ISK sink and how can lost easier your money. It is no coincidence that why CCP removed the plus tanking and resist abilities. |
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