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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:33:00 -
[6001] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:The reason I don't fly a Vindicator is because it is **** compared to the Paladin in armour incursions... Last time I checked, armor incursion fleets had no real advantages compared to shield fleets, no? If it's still so, the point is pretty much moot.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:...and is **** against Sansha's in missions. Rubicon Paladin is going to be better than current TQ Paladin, NM and ofc Vindi in those missions, so I don't see your point here either.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So now I will have to fly an inferior boat... You don't have to. Pick the best one available. Unless you are relying on ISK faucets too much, market will balance your income out for you.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:...until it is also nerfed, at which point the armour incursion channel will likely fold up, since running L4's at that point will be more profitable, until they get wrecked also. Please, share source of this wonderful info. Unless it's a product of "grrr nullsec" tinfoil hattery. |
Dorororo
Keroro Platoon
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:42:00 -
[6002] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote: ... Why having a slighly nerfed max velocity next their tech I counterparts?
Those hulls are the very epitome of tanking, through the Bastion module. For balance purposes, they have to pay for that somehow. around the battlefield. ...
I still very much disagree with this. The penalties for being extra tanky are incurred when the ship becomes tanky. There is no need to nerf the mobility.
QFT.
Basically the PVPers support this for a very simple reason - they have no stake in Marauders currently because Marauders on TQ are unusable for PVP. Anything, no matter how ridiculous or niche, that adds to their potential toolbox is a gain. If CCP added a BS that could only mount frigate guns and had no local tank but had remote rep bonuses, and er... 125mb bandwidth but only 50m3 dronebay, the PVPers would say "yay! another new toy!" They are not obligated to take out Marauders for fights, if it doesn't work they'll just toss it aside and say "oh well back to our old toys".
On the other hand, PVE players have invested skill training and ISK into these ships for a specific purpose and they are getting some drawbacks (varying degrees depending on player preference) in exchange for something they may not want. Guess why they're opposing it?
If CCP had just left the hulls the way they were and added on the MJD and Bastion (feel free to retune Bastion however you feel necessary) then everyone would be celebrating. Instead you get a shitstorm of people either asking for sharks with laser beams on their heads or ridiculous feedback like "a rapid light missile launcher golem tears up frigate gangs (because those frigates can't just run away right?)" |
Savira Terrant
Forsaken Identity Unchained.
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:10:00 -
[6003] - Quote
How about adding an explosion radius bonus and change the TP strength to optimal bonus?
I think this helps long range fits to apply damage better and would rather bring it in line with application of the other marauders than making it too powerful, while leaving the close-range-high-damage uneffected. (Never manage to onehit frigs with a Golem, something I easily do with my Paladin and even after this it is unlikely Golem can do that, but every salvo less helps get rid of scrams faster!) . |
Reiisha
Evolution
379
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:18:00 -
[6004] - Quote
Suddenly thinking that these changes will make the next alliance tournament VERY interesting.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
141
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:36:00 -
[6005] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Alright, as promised, we are having a small iteration on the hulls themselves:
[list]
Why removing the web bonuses?
As we realized when internally playtesting iteration 2, web bonuses don't combine that well with hulls using MJDs to move around or increased projection in Bastion. When we gave them web bonuses we had to nerf them from 10% to 7.5% per level not to overstep on ships like the Vindicator, which by itself was a sign that we were trying to take over a role already fulfilled by the Pirate Battleships. Marauders are not supposed to fill the same niche than their Pirate counterpart, which led us to remove those web bonuses and revert back to iteration 1. Trying to hit orbiting NPC frigates at close range with those hulls is not a good idea either, just use your MJD and snipe them before they can come back in range. If you wish to hit close range targets, the Vindicator is much better for that purpose, as it is tailored for Blasters. The Kronos web bonus pre-dates the Vindicator by 2 years, who's stepping on who's toes again?... just saying.
Tell you what, lets revert the Vindicator back to its MWD cap bonus (what do Minmatar know about blasters anyway?...) while we're at it and watch the forum hilarity ensue.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Darkwolf
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:43:00 -
[6006] - Quote
Very pleased to see the EHP and drone bay size issues are being fixed. Also very happy to hear some direct statements regarding the intended direction of Marauders in the future.
This is exactly what I want a Marauder for. For incursions, I'll fly a Nightmare or a Vindicator. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:06:00 -
[6007] - Quote
Hmmm Testing my vargur out on sissi now. I will admit to never having used MJD but I'm seeing some very interesting things. So far I only have an inkling of an idea but for small gang warfare/ratting: scan res damps might be something to look at. If you can keep them fropm locking you in the 9 sec it takes for the mjd to spool up at max level...
Actually, an idea that I haven't seen come up: Make the mjd animation invisible to other players on marauder hulls as a role bonus.
If they aren;t actively looking at your ship and when you are coming out of bastion, they wont know to scram you since your mjd wont show as spooling up.
Anyways, just an idea, what do you guys think?
I'll be taking her into actual combat now but the pitiful 6km extra range I get from bastion was rather disappointing. That however has allowed me to drop the targeting comp, get my old range and mount a paint (or sensor damp potentially?)
Actually with the improved tank I can drop a tank module and put the comp back on with a tracking script. Paint +Tracking? |
Nasro Drags
404 Not Fun DARKNESS.
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:14:00 -
[6008] - Quote
CCP should create a new PVP oriented ship.
CCP should leave the current marauders as PVE ships.. Cause they are the "only" PVE ships. There's no other ship with a PVE role. This changes are not adding diversity or choices, they're taking them away. |
Domino Artan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:16:00 -
[6009] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: If they aren;t actively looking at your ship and when you are coming out of bastion, they wont know to scram you since your mjd wont show as spooling up.
Pretty sure if I was fighting a space pinata I'd tackle it straight away knowing it's going to have an MJD. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
779
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:18:00 -
[6010] - Quote
Nasro Drags wrote:CCP should create a new PVP oriented ship.
CCP should leave the current marauders as PVE ships.. Cause they are the "only" PVE ships. There's no other ship with a PVE role. This changes are not adding diversity or choices, they're taking them away. If this were even remotely true in any applicable sense you would see far fewer players in pirate BS's for PvE activities. |
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Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:20:00 -
[6011] - Quote
Domino Artan wrote:Anize Oramara wrote: If they aren;t actively looking at your ship and when you are coming out of bastion, they wont know to scram you since your mjd wont show as spooling up.
Pretty sure if I was fighting a space pinata I'd tackle it straight away knowing it's going to have an MJD.
True, but in bastion mode you can not scram it. This is to make it a bit harder for ships in the chaos of melee of small gang warfare to 'miss' you.
I also notice that while yes the timer on the bastion module is 60 seconds if you are ratting alone in null and someone pops into local you will almost never have JUST started your bastion timer. You'll at average have around 30sec before you can spool up you MJD/warp out. That's just an interesting observation that people haven't mentioned. |
Domino Artan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:22:00 -
[6012] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: True, but in bastion mode you can not scram it. This is to make it a bit harder for ships in the chaos of melee of small gang warfare to 'miss' you.
Fair point, but I'm going to be spamming that button just in case :) |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
686
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:23:00 -
[6013] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Suddenly thinking that these changes will make the next alliance tournament VERY interesting.
Obviously bastion module will be banned |
Nasro Drags
404 Not Fun DARKNESS.
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:23:00 -
[6014] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nasro Drags wrote:CCP should create a new PVP oriented ship.
CCP should leave the current marauders as PVE ships.. Cause they are the "only" PVE ships. There's no other ship with a PVE role. This changes are not adding diversity or choices, they're taking them away. If this were even remotely true in any applicable sense you would see far fewer players in pirate BS's for PvE activities.
Exactly, because pirate ships are actually slightly better for general purpose PVE. AND they are far easier to train for. The marauders do need a boost, in PVE. Not make them into something they are not to please almost nobody. I've been in null sec for pretty much as long as i have played. I maybe saw once or twice people roaming in machariels and such.
A bill plus PVP ship is a ship almost no one will use. It doesn't make sense to take a ship away for those who've specialized for it, to please almost nobody. It doesn't make any sense in my opinion. |
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:32:00 -
[6015] - Quote
Marauders are getting the best of both worlds. Capabilities for tanking and going in-your-face-tank with short range ammo (AC vargur in bastion does get around 50km of effective damage with good projection), or the capabilities of jump away, with 1400s and hit at them, relying on Bastion's extra resistances and a very light tank (1 invul), and the rest into tracking and locking.
As they stand, in Bastion, with 1 shield booster and 1 amp, you can pretty much tank anything, coupled with the long range, you're safe for the most part. The rest can be added as tracking comps, webs, TPs, SeBos, whatnot. Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC |
Red Woodson
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:32:00 -
[6016] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote: Kronos: Battleship - 5% damage, 7.5% stasis web; Marauder - 10% falloff, 7.5% tracking, 7.5% armor repair
So in short, its another vindicator only not as good. No, the vindicator is another kronos, only better Or perhaps you are tired of hearing that the original web strength bonus was on the marauders first? BTW, what is it with you and telling people to get vindis? Do the goons control the bpc supply?
Anyway, I haven't had a chance to test these changes, but just theorycrafting some, I think overall i like them. Don't think they'll open up a very big niche in pvp, but maybe more than current. Will be alot better for lvl 4 missions, and will significantly better than pirate/navy boats on some missions with lots of ewar or rats at long ranges, while not significantly worse than pirate/navy ships in most missions. They also should be nice for several nul sec anoms and complexes.
The only real downside i'm seeing is the loss of the web bonus on the paladin, and that only because there doesn't seem to be a good armor replacement for it in incursions. (vindi lacks the damage projection of pala, at least when armor tanked, iirc) If armor fleets were significantly better than shield for incursions, I'd even call it a justified nerf, but they aren't... I can also understand why the incursion runners want their marauder sp back. As far as they are concerned, CCP is changing the role of the only ship that uses that skill. To them, it'd be like ccp making the scimi a hauler, and not refunding logi sp. Whether or not that justifies a sp refund is another matter, but i can understand it. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:48:00 -
[6017] - Quote
I'm getting a difference of anywhere form 10% to 100% increased applied damage on close range Battleships with two tracking comps (Tracking from 0.086 to .132) Switching to range I can increase my range from 63km falloff to 74km. I can mjd right into them and do a lot more damage with the tracking scripts if they are 60km+ away. Yea I'm digging this so much right now. |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:50:00 -
[6018] - Quote
I am getting really angry if someone still is saying the vargur becomes better in damage application because of increased fall off.
I fitted my macha and my vargur on sisi:
Macha:
1154 DPS (with sentries 1343 DPS) 540 m/s 4,1 + 61 km opti + fall off
Way of increasing Damage: Afterburner on and keep distance beneath 30km = >909,0 Gun DPS
Vargur:
1082 DPS (with sentries 1176 DPS) 312 m/s 4,1 + 69 km opti + fall off (5,4 +74 within Bastion)
Way of increasing Damage: Jump into fleet, switch on bastion fight distance 40-50 km (average 45) = 792,5 Gun DPS
And thats without drones.
If the actual 25% bonus would not stack vargur would end up with: 69km*1,25= 86,25 km --> 825,5 Gun DPS WOW 32 DPS more, thats less than a bouncer.
Somehow the advantage of bastion for optimal fighters has no point for vargur. compared to "easy skill" pirate ships they are out maneuvered and out gunned |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:56:00 -
[6019] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote:I am getting really angry if someone still is saying the vargur becomes better in damage application because of increased fall off.
I fitted my macha and my vargur on sisi:
Macha:
1154 DPS (with sentries 1343 DPS) 540 m/s 4,1 + 61 km opti + fall off
Way of increasing Damage: Afterburner on and keep distance beneath 30km = >909,0 Gun DPS
Vargur:
1082 DPS (with sentries 1176 DPS) 312 m/s 4,1 + 69 km opti + fall off (5,4 +74 within Bastion)
Way of increasing Damage: Jump into fleet, switch on bastion fight distance 40-50 km (average 45) = 792,5 Gun DPS
And thats without drones.
If the actual 25% bonus would not stack vargur would end up with: 69km*1,25= 86,25 km --> 825,5 Gun DPS WOW 32 DPS more, thats less than a bouncer.
Somehow the advantage of bastion for optimal fighters has no point for vargur. compared to "easy skill" pirate ships they are out maneuvered and out gunned
Oh man, I just used the MJD to jump onto a group of 4BS and 3 cruisers that was 90km away. I was doing around 2 TIMES THE DAMAGE (pen hits close to 3 times) I normally did at 65km. I was getting penetrating shots every 3rd round and the glancing shots were doing 2 times the damage normal hits were doing at normal range.
WTF. |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:00:00 -
[6020] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Brib Vogt wrote: my own text Oh man, I just used the MJD to jump onto a group of 4BS and 3 cruisers that was 90km away. I was doing around 2-3 TIMES THE DAMAGE I normally did at 65km. I was getting penetrating shots every 3rd round and the glancing shots were doing 2 times the damage normal hits were doing at normal range. WTF.
Then i wish you a lot of fun with serpentis orbiting you at 50 km. You know what happens when you jum to them with your MJD?
Try it. it will surprise you
without sarcasm: if the MJD had a 50 OR 100 km option the vargur would out damage the pirate ships. |
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
333
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:00:00 -
[6021] - Quote
Savira Terrant wrote:How about adding an explosion radius bonus and change the TP strength to optimal bonus? Explosion radius is fine for the Golem, but optimal only applies to turrets (not launchers). This is why I suggested a rate-of-fire bonus (benefits long and short-range weapons) and the RNI still has an edge with damage application. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:03:00 -
[6022] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Brib Vogt wrote: my own text Oh man, I just used the MJD to jump onto a group of 4BS and 3 cruisers that was 90km away. I was doing around 2-3 TIMES THE DAMAGE I normally did at 65km. I was getting penetrating shots every 3rd round and the glancing shots were doing 2 times the damage normal hits were doing at normal range. WTF. Then i wish you a lot of fun with serpentis orbiting you at 50 km. You know what happens when you jum to them with your MJD? Try it. it will surprise you
I Don't mission in serp space (and blits the one serp mission I do get in amar space) BUT if I did I'd just load range scripts. Maybe 3 tracking comps? I should be able to push just past 75km with that right? That's getting into good damage dealing range right there. Also no ewar yey! |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:03:00 -
[6023] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Savira Terrant wrote:How about adding an explosion radius bonus and change the TP strength to optimal bonus? Explosion radius is fine for the Golem, but optimal only applies to turrets (not launchers).
i guess he meant strength to optimal range bonus for the TP itself, not the guns |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:06:00 -
[6024] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Brib Vogt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Brib Vogt wrote: my own text Oh man, I just used the MJD to jump onto a group of 4BS and 3 cruisers that was 90km away. I was doing around 2-3 TIMES THE DAMAGE I normally did at 65km. I was getting penetrating shots every 3rd round and the glancing shots were doing 2 times the damage normal hits were doing at normal range. WTF. Then i wish you a lot of fun with serpentis orbiting you at 50 km. You know what happens when you jum to them with your MJD? Try it. it will surprise you I Don't mission in serp space (and blits the one serp mission I do get in amar space) BUT if I did I'd just load range scripts. Maybe 3 tracking comps? I should be able to push just past 75km with that right? That's getting into good damage dealing range right there. Also no ewar yey!
Max fall off is 50% damage. thats why an increase of 10 km has nearly no effect on applied dps. autocannons kill beneath 30 km to stay over the 75% damage barrier |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:06:00 -
[6025] - Quote
Are we taking into account mid level range increasing implants lv4 missioners will have? |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
333
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:07:00 -
[6026] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote:i guess he meant strength to optimal range bonus for the TP itself, not the guns Ah, that makes sense - although I'm not sure how I feel about a 150km+ TP. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas Permanent Mental Syndrome
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:09:00 -
[6027] - Quote
Tragedy wrote:Any reason why the vargur has the highest mass of all these ships? Its tech 2 yeah, its still minmatar tech 2. Slightly less rust. Why is it heavier then amarr and caldari bricks?
What I was thinking actually is either devs gone mad, or they wrote those masses in reverse order mistakenly.
There is no way a ship like Vargur, which has half its hull as shield planes with glasses attached is heavier than a Paladin, which has all of its hull full of armor plates. Did you guys forgot Minmatar philosopy? Faster and agile? Hell, it's a Tempest hull after all.
It's like saying a loaf of bread is heavier than a watermelon O.o |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:09:00 -
[6028] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Are we taking into account mid level range increasing implants lv4 missioners will have?
Oh and the vargur is going to absolutely ROCK in angle space. Can you just imagine, 3 tracking comps with tracking scripts, battleships at optimal?
i have used a clone with 2x +5 damage imps and the 5% falloff imp
OFC you are right, i am flying in angelspace, but you have not only angel missions there. serpentis assault or vengeance will drive you crazy if you stay stationary and your applied damage is crap |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:11:00 -
[6029] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Brib Vogt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Brib Vogt wrote: my own text Oh man, I just used the MJD to jump onto a group of 4BS and 3 cruisers that was 90km away. I was doing around 2-3 TIMES THE DAMAGE I normally did at 65km. I was getting penetrating shots every 3rd round and the glancing shots were doing 2 times the damage normal hits were doing at normal range. WTF. Then i wish you a lot of fun with serpentis orbiting you at 50 km. You know what happens when you jum to them with your MJD? Try it. it will surprise you I Don't mission in serp space (and blits the one serp mission I do get in amar space) BUT if I did I'd just load range scripts. Maybe 3 tracking comps? I should be able to push just past 75km with that right? That's getting into good damage dealing range right there. Also no ewar yey! Max fall off is 50% damage. thats why an increase of 10 km has nearly no effect on applied dps. autocannons kill beneath 30 km to stay over the 75% damage barrier And nope: 3 TCII with bastion gives you such a huge malus that nearly nothing is increased
Actually at falloff they do 39% damage. 10 extra kilometer can make a big difference since the ROF is so high. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
333
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:13:00 -
[6030] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:There is no way a ship like Vargur, which has half its hull as shield planes with glasses attached is heavier than a Paladin, which has all of its hull full of armor plates. It's all the new armored panels for Bastion to protect the glass, lol. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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