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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
142
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Posted - 2013.10.17 00:13:00 -
[6031] - Quote
Serge SC wrote:AC vargur in bastion does get around 50km of effective damage with good projection If that is an improvement for you, you are fitting your Vargur wrong. Just saying. |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:14:00 -
[6032] - Quote
the bonus for marauders should be 25% optimal and 50% falloff, because within the fall off you have the drop of dps. |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas Permanent Mental Syndrome
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:15:00 -
[6033] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Shivanthar wrote:There is no way a ship like Vargur, which has half its hull as shield planes with glasses attached is heavier than a Paladin, which has all of its hull full of armor plates. It's all the new armored panels for Bastion to protect the glass, lol.
:D
What you forgot is that they applied these to base masses. Without bastion module! (Correct me if I'm mistaken) |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:23:00 -
[6034] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:Serge SC wrote:AC vargur in bastion does get around 50km of effective damage with good projection If that is an improvement for you, you are fitting your Vargur wrong. Just saying.
I think for me the biggest thing bastion brings to the table is versatility.
I used to have 0-1 mid slots (2 on the easiest missions) that I could fit tracking comps in. Now I have 2-3 and this allows me to adapt to the mission and continuously keep my damage application maximised. I also don't have to fit a DCU so another gyro fit as well.
A mach does the exact same thing by flying to or away from rats. The vargur at least does the same thing by standing still and changing the stats of its guns (Range and tracking) or MJD to ships to far away.
It's different, it's interactive like the Mach is interactive (but in a different way) and it feels so much more fun for me at least. I feel more mobile than I've ever felt.
After testing this I have to say I am absolutely stoked about this change.
The only thing I can say is that although the moving paneling is pretty cool, think maybe you can ask the art guys to ad some nice glowy lighting like on the kronos somehow?
Pretty please? |
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:24:00 -
[6035] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:Serge SC wrote:AC vargur in bastion does get around 50km of effective damage with good projection If that is an improvement for you, you are fitting your Vargur wrong. Just saying.
LOL...thank you. But I'll take my arty vargur any day over those filthy short range ACs. Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC |
SOL Ranger
SOL.
44
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:25:00 -
[6036] - Quote
@CCP
Is there any way we could get the range bonuses from Bastion moved to the hulls in the form of a role bonus? If that is not possible, is it possible for you to eliminate the range bonus in Bastion and boost the hulls separately in other ways, such as buffer and sensor strength, so that we do not have to enter bastion to get maximum offensive capabilities in it; It is after all intended as a defensive mode is it not.
This would allow us to use the MJD mobility the hulls provide freely and make fully mobile warfare in the new proposed Marauders more viable even when being highly reliant on the MJD most of the time.
Bastion would become an 'oh ****' tool and a strategic choice rather than the ship defining rule it currently is presented as.
|
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1077
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:34:00 -
[6037] - Quote
I'd like it much more if Bastion was an all or nothing slider sort of thing, 'FULL POWER TO WEAPONS' or 'FULL POWER TO TANK' that you decide before you turn it on, with either application severely nerfing the other. Two different isotopes maybe for the different applications.
Then you get into neat tradeoffs where a few marauders activate WTF bbq ability and become immediate threats, rather then them turning it on and nobody shooting them for a few minutes and focusing on their gangmates. They could even have the same visual que so you'd have to really guess which way they went, forcing you to waste time shooting overtank while their friends nail you. Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
142
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:38:00 -
[6038] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:I used to have 0-1 mid slots (2 on the easiest missions) that I could fit tracking comps in. Now I have 2-3 and this allows me to adapt to the mission and continuously keep my damage application maximised. I also don't have to fit a DCU so another gyro fit as well. Personally, I use 2 TE+2TC+3Gyro for practically everything except Smash the Supplier. Activating bastion gives < 5 percentage points more falloff, if I remember correctly. But that does not necessarily free up any slots, since I can't switch the bastion bonus to tracking like I can with the comps.
The bastion bonus to optimal range is 5 pct points above a scripted cormack meta 14 tc, yet the falloff bonus is 5 pct points below a scripted t2 tc. And the devs are worried about a pulse/scorch-paladin. Oh my, where does that come from, let's try to spot the problem!
Serge SC wrote:LOL...thank you. But I'll take my arty vargur any day over those filthy short range ACs. My remark was in the context of ACs. Nothing wrong with an Arty fit if one prefers it. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
333
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:44:00 -
[6039] - Quote
It occurs to me that every other T2 ship has increased damage. Case-in-point:
Navy Hookbill: +20% kinetic damage, +10% missile velocity (3 launchers = 3.6 equivalent) Hawk: +10% kinetic damage, +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (3 launchers = 4.4 equivalent)
Caracal: +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (5 launchers = 6.67 equivalent) Caracal Navy: +5% rate of fire, +5% explosion radius (6 launchers = 8 equivalent) Cerberus: +5% rate of fire, +5% kinetic damage, +10% missile velocity, +10% flight time (6 launchers = 10 equivalent)
Drake: +10% kinetic damage (6 launchers = 6.6 equivalent) Drake Navy: +5% explosion radius, +10% missile velocity (8 launchers = 8 equivalent) Nighthawk: +7.5% kinetic damage, +7.5% rate of fire, +5% explosion radius (5 launchers = 11 equivalent)
Raven: +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (6 launchers = 8 equivalent) Raven Navy: +5% explosion radius, +10% missile velocity (8 launchers = 8 equivalent) Golem: +5% explosion velocity, +10% missile velocity (4 launchers = 8 equivalent)
Bastion should really be giving these a damage, rate of fire or heat absorption (overloead) bonus. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
21
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Posted - 2013.10.17 00:48:00 -
[6040] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:I used to have 0-1 mid slots (2 on the easiest missions) that I could fit tracking comps in. Now I have 2-3 and this allows me to adapt to the mission and continuously keep my damage application maximised. I also don't have to fit a DCU so another gyro fit as well. Personally, I use 2 TE+2TC+3Gyro for practically everything except Smash the Supplier. Activating bastion gives < 5 percentage points more falloff, if I remember correctly. But that does not necessarily free up any slots, since I can't switch the bastion bonus to tracking like I can with the comps. The bastion bonus to optimal range is 5 pct points above a scripted cormack meta 14 tc, yet the falloff bonus is 5 pct points below a scripted t2 tc. And the devs are worried about a pulse/scorch-paladin. Oh my, where does that come from, let's try to spot the problem! Serge SC wrote:LOL...thank you. But I'll take my arty vargur any day over those filthy short range ACs. My remark was in the context of ACs. Nothing wrong with an Arty fit if one prefers it.
I think the prob is you are running 2 TEs. I run 1 TE and 4 faction gyros. This means the bastion takes the place of the range bonus of the 2nd TE but without the tracking bonus (the range bonus is also larger because less stacking penalties before taking the TCs into account) while I now have 3 TCs I can script as needed depending on the situation. More versatility/adaptability is better. It pushes it towards having more tracking because I can kinda dictate range with the MJD.
I have never run guristas extravaganza. How bad is it with range and jamming? I'd like to give the bastion module a proper testing on it but I've never run it before so need to know how bad it is to begin with. I'll prolly be doing this tomorrow night. |
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Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:03:00 -
[6041] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:It occurs to me that every other T2 ship has increased damage. Case-in-point:
Navy Hookbill: +20% kinetic damage, +10% missile velocity (3 launchers = 3.6 equivalent) Hawk: +10% kinetic damage, +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (3 launchers = 4.4 equivalent)
Caracal: +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (5 launchers = 6.67 equivalent) Caracal Navy: +5% rate of fire, +5% explosion radius (6 launchers = 8 equivalent) Cerberus: +5% rate of fire, +5% kinetic damage, +10% missile velocity, +10% flight time (6 launchers = 10 equivalent)
Drake: +10% kinetic damage (6 launchers = 6.6 equivalent) Drake Navy: +5% explosion radius, +10% missile velocity (8 launchers = 8 equivalent) Nighthawk: +7.5% kinetic damage, +7.5% rate of fire, +5% explosion radius (5 launchers = 11 equivalent)
Raven: +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (6 launchers = 8 equivalent) Raven Navy: +5% explosion radius, +10% missile velocity (8 launchers = 8 equivalent) Golem: +5% explosion velocity, +10% missile velocity (4 launchers = 8 equivalent)
Bastion should really be giving these a damage, rate of fire or heat absorption (overloead) bonus.
I disagree, you should have more tank or more DPS shouldnt have both |
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:08:00 -
[6042] - Quote
For dps increase
bastion mode is good for artillery cannon vargur torpedo golem paladin kronos
Bastion mode does nothing for auto cannon vargur cruise golem
this is just my observation after flying them all in the test server while doing some l4 missions |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
333
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:12:00 -
[6043] - Quote
Octoven wrote:I disagree, you should have more tank or more DPS shouldnt have both The T2 variants all have more tank and more DPS. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
587
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:36:00 -
[6044] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:It occurs to me that every other T2 ship has increased damage. Case-in-point:
Navy Hookbill: +20% kinetic damage, +10% missile velocity (3 launchers = 3.6 equivalent) Hawk: +10% kinetic damage, +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (3 launchers = 4.4 equivalent)
Caracal: +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (5 launchers = 6.67 equivalent) Caracal Navy: +5% rate of fire, +5% explosion radius (6 launchers = 8 equivalent) Cerberus: +5% rate of fire, +5% kinetic damage, +10% missile velocity, +10% flight time (6 launchers = 10 equivalent)
Drake: +10% kinetic damage (6 launchers = 6.6 equivalent) Drake Navy: +5% explosion radius, +10% missile velocity (8 launchers = 8 equivalent) Nighthawk: +7.5% kinetic damage, +7.5% rate of fire, +5% explosion radius (5 launchers = 11 equivalent)
Raven: +5% rate of fire, +10% missile velocity (6 launchers = 8 equivalent) Raven Navy: +5% explosion radius, +10% missile velocity (8 launchers = 8 equivalent) Golem: +5% explosion velocity, +10% missile velocity (4 launchers = 8 equivalent)
Bastion should really be giving these a damage, rate of fire or heat absorption (overloead) bonus. I disagree, you should have more tank or more DPS shouldnt have both
Its a cobmat ship..without more damage is is worth exaclty as much to the fleet as a t1 ship. SIcne they have LESS firepower than t1 ships, these marauders are useless on most scenarios.
THey are NOT versatile, on the contrary. THey are the most pigeonholed ships ever. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Drunken Bum
421
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:41:00 -
[6045] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: You do realize that 1 Keres and 1 Sentinel will now be able to pin down a Marauder that is running solo in low sec? Both the Keres and Sentinel will lock the Marauder long before it locks them. The Keres will damp the range of the Marauder, the sentinel will start neuting it, and both will kill the first 5 small drones that might be on the field. Any subsequent flights of drones sent out by the Marauder will not attack, because the Marauder has no lock, and that's that.
The Marauder is pinned down, until heavier ships show up to kill it.
Hell, one inty will likely get under the guns, and easily speed-tank the guns because of the removal of the web bonus, while shooting any drones that can catch it.
Are you kidding me? Have you actually flown one of these yet and tried anything or have you just whined on the forums? How are you gonna do anything do an ewar immune ship with a keres? Weve tried to see how well a single inty can handle a marauder right now. Orbiting a vargur at various ranges from 40-1k ab and mwd fits. Vargur is killing the taranis usually with a single volley from each gun. Webs ARENT useless. If you were gonna mission in lowsec, you could easily fit a web scram and neuts on your marauder. Easily. While having enough tank for level 5s. How fast is an interceptor gonna orbit a ship while its webbed and scrammed? Not fast enough to avoid being hit.
You're gonna need a LOT more then two ewar frigates to pin down a marauder now. (P.S. they're immune to damps while bastioned)
If your gang takes longer then 60 seconds to show up, no marauder kill for them. After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary. -á-Fozzie |
Freeism Saurfang
Rotten Kimchi Squadron Brothers of Tangra
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:44:00 -
[6046] - Quote
So, When you change Paladin's Amarr Battleship bonus?
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed (instead 5% bonus to capacitor capacity) 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)
5% capacitor bonus is bit old, isn't it?
it looks like old apocalypse bonus.
PS. As capacitor bonus changes, base capacitor should increase 25%
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
587
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:54:00 -
[6047] - Quote
Drunken Bum wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: You do realize that 1 Keres and 1 Sentinel will now be able to pin down a Marauder that is running solo in low sec? Both the Keres and Sentinel will lock the Marauder long before it locks them. The Keres will damp the range of the Marauder, the sentinel will start neuting it, and both will kill the first 5 small drones that might be on the field. Any subsequent flights of drones sent out by the Marauder will not attack, because the Marauder has no lock, and that's that.
The Marauder is pinned down, until heavier ships show up to kill it.
Hell, one inty will likely get under the guns, and easily speed-tank the guns because of the removal of the web bonus, while shooting any drones that can catch it.
Are you kidding me? Have you actually flown one of these yet and tried anything or have you just whined on the forums? How are you gonna do anything do an ewar immune ship with a keres? Weve tried to see how well a single inty can handle a marauder right now. Orbiting a vargur at various ranges from 40-1k ab and mwd fits. Vargur is killing the taranis usually with a single volley from each gun. Webs ARENT useless. If you were gonna mission in lowsec, you could easily fit a web scram and neuts on your marauder. Easily. While having enough tank for level 5s. How fast is an interceptor gonna orbit a ship while its webbed and scrammed? Not fast enough to avoid being hit. You're gonna need a LOT more then two ewar frigates to pin down a marauder now. (P.S. they're immune to damps while bastioned) If your gang takes longer then 60 seconds to show up, no marauder kill for them.
lol .. go try.. i really want to see peopel tryign to use marauders so much in PVP. we gonna get so many nice kills.
Just a hint.. the number of tornados needed to one shoot a marauder is still same... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
m3talc0re X
Solar Revolutions Co.
167
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:57:00 -
[6048] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Would you be so kinda as to pleeeease give us a slight buff to tractors on marauders? Like the 125% bonus to range and velocity. Please XD We're long range ships, we need long range tractors :(
Thanks, m3tal |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
335
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 02:00:00 -
[6049] - Quote
This thread has officially become a Gong Show. I think I'll just wait for Rubicon and be "surprised" with any changes.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Drunken Bum
421
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 02:08:00 -
[6050] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Drunken Bum wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: You do realize that 1 Keres and 1 Sentinel will now be able to pin down a Marauder that is running solo in low sec? Both the Keres and Sentinel will lock the Marauder long before it locks them. The Keres will damp the range of the Marauder, the sentinel will start neuting it, and both will kill the first 5 small drones that might be on the field. Any subsequent flights of drones sent out by the Marauder will not attack, because the Marauder has no lock, and that's that.
The Marauder is pinned down, until heavier ships show up to kill it.
Hell, one inty will likely get under the guns, and easily speed-tank the guns because of the removal of the web bonus, while shooting any drones that can catch it.
Are you kidding me? Have you actually flown one of these yet and tried anything or have you just whined on the forums? How are you gonna do anything do an ewar immune ship with a keres? Weve tried to see how well a single inty can handle a marauder right now. Orbiting a vargur at various ranges from 40-1k ab and mwd fits. Vargur is killing the taranis usually with a single volley from each gun. Webs ARENT useless. If you were gonna mission in lowsec, you could easily fit a web scram and neuts on your marauder. Easily. While having enough tank for level 5s. How fast is an interceptor gonna orbit a ship while its webbed and scrammed? Not fast enough to avoid being hit. You're gonna need a LOT more then two ewar frigates to pin down a marauder now. (P.S. they're immune to damps while bastioned) If your gang takes longer then 60 seconds to show up, no marauder kill for them. lol .. go try.. i really want to see peopel tryign to use marauders so much in PVP. we gonna get so many nice kills. Just a hint.. the number of tornados needed to one shoot a marauder is still same... You go take your gang of alpha nados through lowsec to gank a marauder. lol, have fun with that. Also, just a hint, bastion adds to hull resists. Combined wtih a damage control you have 70k+ ehp easily without any additional buffer. Thats more tornados. ALSO, they just increased the overall hp of these ships by a lot. Again. More tornados. After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary. -á-Fozzie |
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Vorseger
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 02:18:00 -
[6051] - Quote
Wow. Now I know CCP wants marauders to just mjd around....f this.
A LOT of your questions with "answers" are based on a marauder being forced to use the bastion module.
I still do not see a reason to tie any nerfs to the hulls over making them an attribute of a slotted bastion module.
At least we now know CCP wants the ship class role to be mjd + bastion....fml.
T3 Cruisers here I come. |
Roark BleedBlue
Minmatar Institute of Technology
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 02:23:00 -
[6052] - Quote
When in Bastion mode, you don't need logis to Incurse! And You do not need webs either. It's Totally doable. -Erm... But We did tests! You just shift back from bastion, and MJD away from those pesky frigs! -But then...I'll MJD away from...the logis too, right? We'll talk about this later! After you've given up on using Paladins for Incursions! |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
353
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 02:35:00 -
[6053] - Quote
hp bonus yay!
drone bandwidth, my only concern is the rail kronos having crap for dps. that said the blaster version may be far better than I'm giving it credit for, but I have yet to play with it.
tractor beam bonus: yay, maybe you could even make it better nudge nudge, wink wink.
golem tp bonus, is a very nice bonus, it would be a shame if anything happened to it....
web bonus: I don't care much, but still think it says to incursion runners someone needs to bring a vindi or gtfo. I'm not sure that having only 1 bs with a 90% web bonus is a good or bad thing. but hey maybe with the pirate bs rebalance it will be 0 battleships with a 90% web bonus, and people will have to bring a t3 or a command ship with a 60% web and medium weapons You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Daishan Auergni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2013.10.17 02:53:00 -
[6054] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:hp bonus yay! web bonus: I don't care much, but still think it says to incursion runners someone needs to bring a vindi or gtfo. I'm not sure that having only 1 bs with a 90% web bonus is a good or bad thing. but hey maybe with the pirate bs rebalance it will be 0 battleships with a 90% web bonus, and people will have to bring a t3 or a command ship with a 60% web and medium weapons
Roark BleedBlue wrote:When in Bastion mode, you don't need logis to Incurse! And You do not need webs either. It's Totally doable. -Erm... But We did tests! You just shift back from bastion, and MJD away from those pesky frigs! -But then...I'll MJD away from...the logis too, right? We'll talk about this later! After you've given up on using Paladins for Incursions!
With the interdiction maneuvers skirmish link nerfed in 1.1, 14KM webs top out at 18KM, 15KM webs at 20.2, so blitz fleets should have long webs in fleet already, ala Bhaal or Loki.
Any Vindi in fleet (if still 90% bonused) should be getting the re-sebos and tracking links so that it can use its mids for 5x webs, same as a Bhaal for armor fleets. Shield fleets get stuck with 2x webs per Vindi or Bhaal, so that's still a nice gimme (and Oneiros 3x links vs 2x links from Scimis) that means armor fleets should still get an edge.
As for Paladins or Kronoses, two with 2x webs each will need to gang up to get a frig locked down enough to kill with a couple volleys. I've tested that on SiSi already on Nation's Commander. With a little bling in the tanking mods Paladins and Kronoses won't need to leave Bastion mode and certainly they should NEVER MJD in a vanguard site... unless it was 10 marauders, 5 which MJD away so that frigs can get popped when they switch aggro from one group to another. Nah.
That'd be slower than having a dedicated webber with 5x webs and two Oneiroses worth of links on it.
I plan on using a Vindi and a Bhaal along with two Paladins. =) |
Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
386
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:27:00 -
[6055] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Harvey James wrote:Also Ytterbium -have you considered replacing TP bonus on golem for an explosion radius bonus???
Ah yes, forgot to address that in the previous post . Yes, we did - it all comes down to this:
- TP bonus:
+ More than one can be added, allowing to give more benefit than the explosion radius bonus. Especially useful due to the Bastion module that frees med slots. + Target painting affects a whole group of players - Require med slots in the first place
- Explosion radius bonus:
+ Doesn't require med slot in the first place + Always applied as long as you shoot - Static, cannot be influenced by itself - Doesn't affect other players
So far, we prefer the TP bonus - but that's debatable. The other Marauders don't rely on specific tackling / EW modules anymore (web bonus removed), thus it could make sense to remove it as well.
the suggestion of ROF is pretty nice, as someone mentioned, but the explo radius is cool too, but damage one could be used as well... either will be better than TP and golem pilots will appreciate whichever you choose if you change it. |
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:42:00 -
[6056] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Its a cobmat ship..without more damage is is worth exaclty as much to the fleet as a t1 ship. SIcne they have LESS firepower than t1 ships, these marauders are useless on most scenarios.
THey are NOT versatile, on the contrary. THey are the most pigeonholed ships ever.
The next applies to artillery fits.
It's less paper DPS, but better applied DPS. A Machariel loses loads of DPS on falloff and terrible tracking vs a Vargur's superior tracking but lacking raw DPS. Considering the higher resists of a Vargur, especially in Bastion, you gain 2 mids vs the Machariel on tank (talking missions here). To match the same rep/s as a Vargur that's one more item.
So put it this way, Bastion + Invul (preferably a cheap deadspace or CN) for tank and DCU if you want to feel more comfortable. That leaves 5 mids open to put 1 shield booster, 1 boost amplifier and 2 Tracking Comps and the MJD or MWD (depending on mission) vs a Machariel that has to go 2 invuls or mission-specific hardeners, 1 shield booster and 1 amplifier (or only 1 larger booster) plus the prop mod. No space for a TC, or space for only 1.
As for the lows, the Vargur can get away no DCU, with 3-2 or 4-1 gyros-TEs vs the Machariel's 7 lows, that will be DCU, 3-2 or 4-1 gyros-TEs and 1 for an RCU or PDS to compensate for the lack of PG available (particular problem for the 1400 mach).
Drones wise, the Mach wins hands down, but with that new NPC AI, I can't even put my Hobs or Warriors outside without getting near-insta-aggro from the frigates and having to pull the in immediately, so I just tend to ignore drones...
Main differences are play style. The Vargur demands a more fixed position, but that adds to the strategy of where to position yourself to pull enough aggro and be able to hit stuff, or when to reposition to make your guns effective once more. The Machariel on the other hand relies on kitting and constantly moving to survive and manage your triggers.
Overall, I prefer the Vargur, it's cheaper to run for the less amount of guns, it can carry so much more, and I quite like the stationary play and knowing when and where to jump to reposition and keep frigs with 0 angular velocity. Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
178
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Posted - 2013.10.17 04:11:00 -
[6057] - Quote
Not sure where these are going now.
I will re iterate my earlier post.
Alticus C Bear wrote:They will be good at PVE, great in fact every mission runners dream.
They are however bad for PVE as content, here is a ship that breaks all game design possibilities.
Immune to E-war, no range problems can hit NPCs anywhere.
Can travel great distances quickly.
Massive tank makes omni tank easy, no need to even think about NPC damage profiles or tailoring ship fittings.
NPC ships don't scram so you can't even be pointed.
How do you make PVE that is challenging and interesting for these ships? How do you encourage diverse ship use when one ship is so strong?
This is not what PVE needs, it needs balanced communal content. They will not realistically be used for incursions, they will be out competed by proper set up gangs, if you think you have designed a ship that can do incursions in very small numbers you have broken its group gameplay.
You yourself suggest you wish to limit fleet usage although I am unsure why.
They will see usage in anoms maybe C3 wormholes but they mainly seem set up for farming level 4 missions.
Kronos could probably do any mission with bastion, a good repper and a T2 explosive rig. Everything else goes on damage and projection. The bastion range bonus then does very little as it stacks last. It is just an emergency tank button that makes it completely immune to any attempt to create challenging gameplay due to it's tank level and E-war immunity. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8275
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Posted - 2013.10.17 04:33:00 -
[6058] - Quote
Dorororo wrote: ridiculous feedback like "a rapid light missile launcher golem tears up frigate gangs (because those frigates can't just run away right?)"
They can but they dont.
See, unlike you I am testing these ships in every way I can, even to the point of fitting light weapons to see what they can do. You and a few like you only want these ships to be doing one thing and one thing alone. Incursions. Right now you are shoehorning an active tanking ship into a passive buffer fleet just to use the webs on the paladin. You use this to try and argue that CCP not fix one of the most underused ships in pvp, ships that are also locked out of vast chunks of space for pve too.
The new look marauders are much better than the old ones in both pvp and pve. If you don't want to change the way you run incursions then go grab the vindicator which offers everything you want and more. |
Madhero
Remnants of the Forgotten Seekers of the Unseen
0
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Posted - 2013.10.17 04:46:00 -
[6059] - Quote
My question is a fine detail on drones. If we deploy drones before entering bastion mode; will the drones still work/fight when we enter bastion mode? |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
779
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:55:00 -
[6060] - Quote
Madhero wrote:My question is a fine detail on drones. If we deploy drones before entering bastion mode; will the drones still work/fight when we enter bastion mode?
They do, and I have no idea why you'd think they wouldn't. |
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