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Tramar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.10.17 04:57:00 -
[6061] - Quote
Serge SC wrote: Main differences are play style. The Vargur demands a more fixed position, but that adds to the strategy of where to position yourself to pull enough aggro and be able to hit stuff, or when to reposition to make your guns effective once more. The Machariel on the other hand relies on kitting and constantly moving to survive and manage your triggers.
It also makes Vargur a sitting target practice for any roam to come by if it's farming anomalies. And their strong point were usually ACs, arty fit is quite meh.
As it stands: T2 ships have a specific role and can outshoot their t1 counterparts and mostly even their faction variants.
What do we have with Maradeurs with proposed balance?: We get an outmatched ship with outdated bonuses, without a distinguished role.
What do we have from a player perspective?: Cause of the capital skill tree remade we get a ship unworthy the train time and isk without that much of a necessary role it pvp/pve fleets. You can still get even a cheaper faction BS or a little bit more expensive pirate BS which will both perform better (in most of the cases) in pvp and pve. The bastion mode also makes them pretty much useless in null/low pve, because 60 sec sitting target for that kind of area is not entirely good.
Imo: Maradeurs need to get their outdated bonuses sorted out and to get an overall hull buff first. Getting a role for them is interesting, but it won't sort out anything and still leaves maradeurs very situational and doesn't make them worth the training time/isk. |
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:09:00 -
[6062] - Quote
Tramar wrote: It also makes Vargur a sitting target practice for any roam to come by if it's farming anomalies. And their strong point were usually ACs, arty fit is quite meh.
As it stands: T2 ships have a specific role and can outshoot their t1 counterparts and mostly even their faction variants.
What do we have with Maradeurs with proposed balance?: We get an outmatched ship with outdated bonuses, without a distinguished role.
What do we have from a player perspective?: Cause of the capital skill tree remade we get a ship unworthy the train time and isk without that much of a necessary role it pvp/pve fleets. You can still get even a cheaper faction BS or a little bit more expensive pirate BS which will both perform better (in most of the cases) in pvp and pve. The bastion mode also makes them pretty much useless in null/low pve, because 60 sec sitting target for that kind of area is not entirely good.
Imo: Maradeurs need to get their outdated bonuses sorted out and to get an overall hull buff first. Getting a role for them is interesting, but it won't sort out anything and still leaves maradeurs very situational and doesn't make them worth the training time/isk.
Yeah, main issue is immobility. For high-sec there's no issue, just jump away before getting ganker, Bastion up if they still try, and tank until CONCORD arrives (or warp out like normal people would do if in that situation).
To be quite honest, the Paladin is the most powerful (gun alone) laser DPS, alongside the Nightmare. There it has no issues, nor does with guns draining the cap too quickly.
The Vargur, I'm trying to understand why our matari pride is so underpowered and doesn't really make sense. Tracking bonus is useless for a sniper, but damage and ROF is too much..100% to gun damage, 25% to gun damage AND 25% ROF? Too much. What other way to increase the damage? The low DPS is inherent to artilleries then (BUFF 1400!! zOMGWTFBBQLOLPWETTYPWEASE)
EDIT: Actually, I've always wondered, why do 4x3500mm Capital Artilleries have a faster Rate of Fire than 2x1400mm Battleship Artilleries? C'mon, reduce our RoF to at least match that of quad 3500! Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC |
Jade Knight07
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:50:00 -
[6063] - Quote
Again I feel like I need to say something here. Again its because if I don't and you ruin this ship I'll at least have tried. After finishing writing this and reading it I realize itGÇÖs aggressiveGǪ but I don't have time to rewrite it so I apologize. Please try and understand its passion and frustration fueling it.
STOP TRYING TO BREAK STUFF. At this point I am starting to think you guys are breaking these ships because you are suffering from some psychological condition. It seems like you guys just want to "smash the sand castle."
You want to add a new mode, which for me is going to be near to totally useless, do it without breaking the Kronos. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE KRONOS!!! Please leave the normal mode alone.
First and for most is the one things I've seen you guys say isn't useful, the web bonus. I use it A LOT. Constantly while running missions. There is no reason for me to go jumping all over the grid. I don't want to. ItGÇÖs a waste of time. Ever mission I run with the Kronos the web is nearly always on. Any assumption that it isn't important or useful is flat out wrong. There is A LOT of people who agree and have said as mush. CCP you need to realize you are the ones who are in error. Get over it and put it back.
Speed. Again there is no justifiable reason to decrease the speed. It allows the ship to get around the large lvl 4 grids in a reasonable amount of time. There is no reason to make traveling around painfully slow. Again, CCP you are in error. Get over it and put it back.
Tanking. Nothing wrong with current numbers. No reason to change it. If it isn't broken don't fix it!
You guys want to reduce mass, add slots, add another bonus for MJD's go for it. I don't care. But if you think you need to destroy an entire class of ships to do so, then I say you need to reevaluate your stance, listen to the payer base in this 300 plus page thread and come correct.
I played this game for nearly 3 years straight. I stopped playing for about a year and half because CCP didn't add anything of game play value for a portion of those years. I realize saying that I'll stop paying is going to be met with shrugs and trolls, but there it is. ItGÇÖs the only leverage any of use really have. Might take another few years or longer, maybe never before I'll return.
TL:DR: If CCP breaks this class of ships because of their false assumptions I'll unsub my 3 accounts. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
340
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:59:00 -
[6064] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:TL:DR: If CCP breaks this class of ships because of their false assumptions I'll unsub my 3 accounts. Dibs on your stuff. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8278
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:03:00 -
[6065] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:
You want to add a new mode, which for me is going to be near to totally useless, do it without breaking the Kronos. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE KRONOS!!! Please leave the normal mode alone.
Use the Vindicator. Same webs, more damage, more armour hp, more fitting room, faster, can deplpy a full set of sentries, much better sensor strength. It outclasses the old kronos in every way for what you are using it for.
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Jade Knight07
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:21:00 -
[6066] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:TL:DR: If CCP breaks this class of ships because of their false assumptions I'll unsub my 3 accounts. Dibs on your stuff.
haha you wish '-)
Something else occurred to me. CCP said something about not needing the web bonus because you'll be able to MJD away and then pick off the targets. My numbers may be in off but here it goes:
Warp to grid enemies 50k-ish away Lock targets small ships take 30-ish seconds MJD away they are now 150k away wait till they are 108k (Kronos Targeting range) Wait 30-ish seconds, frigs are now much closer Pick off frigs, some get closer MJD again they are again out of lock range Retarget frigs pick off frigs ect.
So now you are sitting a few hundred Km away from where you started and there is a gate, which was already 50k from warp in. So now you MJD once wait for cool down and then slow boat the rest of the way to the gate with the new and improved nerfed speed.
Throw in bastion mode and you'll be wasting even more time.
Does this really sound good to anyone...? |
Darkwolf
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:24:00 -
[6067] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:So now you are sitting a few hundred Km away from where you started and there is a gate, which was already 50k from warp in. So now you MJD once wait for cool down and then slow boat the rest of the way to the gate with the new and improved nerfed speed.
Why are you MJD'ing in a straight line away from the gate? Nothing's stopping you prescribing a triangle, square, or whatever other kind of maneuver you want to keep the gate within a one jump range...
|
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
340
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:35:00 -
[6068] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:Edit: And if you are going to tell me to use drones then apparently you haven't use them recently. I lose a few drones every time I use them. Even being supper vigilant. They've almost become a non options. Only for use in dire situations. And here everyone is complaining about the loss of drones, when they're obviously much squishier. Much ado about nothing. I'll settle for 'some' of your stuff. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
592
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:47:00 -
[6069] - Quote
Darkwolf wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:So now you are sitting a few hundred Km away from where you started and there is a gate, which was already 50k from warp in. So now you MJD once wait for cool down and then slow boat the rest of the way to the gate with the new and improved nerfed speed. Why are you MJD'ing in a straight line away from the gate? Nothing's stopping you prescribing a triangle, square, or whatever other kind of maneuver you want to keep the gate within a one jump range...
Agreed, I thought it was gonna be difficult working with MJD in missions. However, after using it, I feel it's actually really simple and very effective..
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Jade Knight07
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:59:00 -
[6070] - Quote
Darkwolf wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:So now you are sitting a few hundred Km away from where you started and there is a gate, which was already 50k from warp in. So now you MJD once wait for cool down and then slow boat the rest of the way to the gate with the new and improved nerfed speed. Why are you MJD'ing in a straight line away from the gate? Nothing's stopping you prescribing a triangle, square, or whatever other kind of maneuver you want to keep the gate within a one jump range...
Ah I see your point. I suppose it isn't as bad as I first thought. Before tonight I really hadn't given it much thought. But in the end I still think it would increase the time it takes to clear a mission. I think it would also hamper salvaging as you'd have MJD out of salvage range then come back. I am just trying to understand this new reality that CCP is imposing. |
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Jade Knight07
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:05:00 -
[6071] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:Edit: And if you are going to tell me to use drones then apparently you haven't use them recently. I lose a few drones every time I use them. Even being supper vigilant. They've almost become a non options. Only for use in dire situations. And here everyone is complaining about the loss of drones, when they're obviously much squishier. Much ado about nothing. I'll settle for 'some' of your stuff.
To me its more of a hassle than its worth. I still use T2's which I really shouldn't be. When I use drones the ships always target the same one till its dead. For instance when I first launch they all focus fire on one. it takes a little damage I pull them in wait for the ships to agro me again then launch drones. The same drone that was damaged is always retargeted and the rest ignored until its dead. Then they target a new one and the cycle continues.
All I am saying is its not very practical to keep pull them in and launching. Its much easier for me to web the frigs and move towards them slowly and kill them with a single volley from my Kronos. While the weber is slowing them down I simply attack larger ships until I can one shot them. Take away the 90% weber and it become mush harder. I tried the same method when I was flying a Hyperion and mega. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8282
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:12:00 -
[6072] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:Edit: And if you are going to tell me to use drones then apparently you haven't use them recently. I lose a few drones every time I use them. Even being supper vigilant. They've almost become a non options. Only for use in dire situations. And here everyone is complaining about the loss of drones, when they're obviously much squishier. Much ado about nothing. I'll settle for 'some' of your stuff. To me its more of a hassle than its worth. I still use T2's which I really shouldn't be. When I use drones the ships always target the same one till its dead. For instance when I first launch they all focus fire on one. it takes a little damage I pull them in wait for the ships to agro me again then launch drones. The same drone that was damaged is always retargeted and the rest ignored until its dead. Then they target a new one and the cycle continues. All I am saying is its not very practical to keep pull them in and launching. Its much easier for me to web the frigs and move towards them slowly and kill them with a single volley from my Kronos. While the weber is slowing them down I simply attack larger ships until I can one shot them. Take away the 90% weber and it become mush harder. I tried the same method when I was flying a Hyperion and mega.
Mega has no problem hitting frigs out to 15km, any left are easily mopped up with the drones. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:13:00 -
[6073] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:TL:DR: If CCP breaks this class of ships because of their false assumptions I'll unsub my 3 accounts. Dibs on your stuff. haha you wish '-) Something else occurred to me. CCP said something about not needing the web bonus because you'll be able to MJD away and then pick off the targets. My numbers may be in off but here it goes: Warp to grid enemies 50k-ish away Lock targets small ships take 30-ish seconds MJD away they are now 150k away wait till they are 108k (Kronos Targeting range) Wait 30-ish seconds, frigs are now much closer Pick off frigs, some get closer MJD again they are again out of lock range Retarget frigs pick off frigs ect. So now you are sitting a few hundred Km away from where you started and there is a gate, which was already 50k from warp in. So now you MJD once wait for cool down and then slow boat the rest of the way to the gate with the new and improved nerfed speed. Throw in bastion mode and you'll be wasting even more time. Does this really sound good to anyone...? Edit: And if you are going to tell me to use drones then apparently you haven't use them recently. I lose a few drones every time I use them. Even being supper vigilant. They've almost become a non options. Only for use in dire situations. This gentleman would like to enquire as to what you are smoking or if you have just not bothered to actually test bastion on the test server. my guess would be the latter as I wouldnt like to assume mind altering substance abuse.
First of, with base sensor changes and a single sebo I'm locking frigs in under 9 seconds. so far in 95% of the time Ive popped eve frig that has auto agressed in any mission and have popped 100% of every frig that hasent. the 5% ive killed with my light drones and not got a single one shot at.
Your example of mjd usage is... not so good.
plainly speaking, you sir are doing it very very wrong. please test on sissi so your future posts are not tainted by ignorance. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
340
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:16:00 -
[6074] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:To me its more of a hassle than its worth. I still use T2's which I really shouldn't be. When I use drones the ships always target the same one till its dead. For instance when I first launch they all focus fire on one. it takes a little damage I pull them in wait for the ships to agro me again then launch drones. The same drone that was damaged is always retargeted and the rest ignored until its dead. Then they target a new one and the cycle continues.
All I am saying is its not very practical to keep pull them in and launching. Its much easier for me to web the frigs and move towards them slowly and kill them with a single volley from my Kronos. While the weber is slowing them down I simply attack larger ships until I can one shot them. Take away the 90% weber and it become mush harder. I tried the same method when I was flying a Hyperion and mega. These are not the drones you're looking for... I honestly don't care about the stasis web bonus one way or the other, but I think this whole Marauder fiasco serves as an example of how not to conduct a rebalancing. I previously made the suggestion to just defer this until the next update after Rubicon, and I still think considering how important these ships are that it's probably the best way forward. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Jade Knight07
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:19:00 -
[6075] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:Edit: And if you are going to tell me to use drones then apparently you haven't use them recently. I lose a few drones every time I use them. Even being supper vigilant. They've almost become a non options. Only for use in dire situations. And here everyone is complaining about the loss of drones, when they're obviously much squishier. Much ado about nothing. I'll settle for 'some' of your stuff. To me its more of a hassle than its worth. I still use T2's which I really shouldn't be. When I use drones the ships always target the same one till its dead. For instance when I first launch they all focus fire on one. it takes a little damage I pull them in wait for the ships to agro me again then launch drones. The same drone that was damaged is always retargeted and the rest ignored until its dead. Then they target a new one and the cycle continues. All I am saying is its not very practical to keep pull them in and launching. Its much easier for me to web the frigs and move towards them slowly and kill them with a single volley from my Kronos. While the weber is slowing them down I simply attack larger ships until I can one shot them. Take away the 90% weber and it become mush harder. I tried the same method when I was flying a Hyperion and mega. Mega has no problem hitting frigs out to 15km, any left are easily mopped up with the drones.
Hmm, well I have trouble hitting drones once they are inside of 30k with any 425mm rails on any ships. I try and kill them before they get within 40k which doesn't always happen either. I am unsure how you are managing at 15k as that has not be my experience. I'll accept that you do.
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Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:27:00 -
[6076] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:Edit: And if you are going to tell me to use drones then apparently you haven't use them recently. I lose a few drones every time I use them. Even being supper vigilant. They've almost become a non options. Only for use in dire situations. And here everyone is complaining about the loss of drones, when they're obviously much squishier. Much ado about nothing. I'll settle for 'some' of your stuff. To me its more of a hassle than its worth. I still use T2's which I really shouldn't be. When I use drones the ships always target the same one till its dead. For instance when I first launch they all focus fire on one. it takes a little damage I pull them in wait for the ships to agro me again then launch drones. The same drone that was damaged is always retargeted and the rest ignored until its dead. Then they target a new one and the cycle continues. All I am saying is its not very practical to keep pull them in and launching. Its much easier for me to web the frigs and move towards them slowly and kill them with a single volley from my Kronos. While the weber is slowing them down I simply attack larger ships until I can one shot them. Take away the 90% weber and it become mush harder. I tried the same method when I was flying a Hyperion and mega. Mega has no problem hitting frigs out to 15km, any left are easily mopped up with the drones. Hmm, well I have trouble hitting drones once they are inside of 30k with any 425mm rails on any ships. I try and kill them before they get within 40k which doesn't always happen either. I am unsure how you are managing at 15k as that has not be my experience. I'll accept that you do. with bastion you need far less tank than normal. if youve fit 4 tank modules you now only need two at most. this means you fit 2 additional TE or a TE and damage mod. in the mids you replace your web(s) with tracking comps with tracking scrpts.
Again I urge you to test this on sissi so you can see the error of you ways
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Jade Knight07
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:28:00 -
[6077] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:TL:DR: If CCP breaks this class of ships because of their false assumptions I'll unsub my 3 accounts. Dibs on your stuff. haha you wish '-) Something else occurred to me. CCP said something about not needing the web bonus because you'll be able to MJD away and then pick off the targets. My numbers may be in off but here it goes: Warp to grid enemies 50k-ish away Lock targets small ships take 30-ish seconds MJD away they are now 150k away wait till they are 108k (Kronos Targeting range) Wait 30-ish seconds, frigs are now much closer Pick off frigs, some get closer MJD again they are again out of lock range Retarget frigs pick off frigs ect. So now you are sitting a few hundred Km away from where you started and there is a gate, which was already 50k from warp in. So now you MJD once wait for cool down and then slow boat the rest of the way to the gate with the new and improved nerfed speed. Throw in bastion mode and you'll be wasting even more time. Does this really sound good to anyone...? Edit: And if you are going to tell me to use drones then apparently you haven't use them recently. I lose a few drones every time I use them. Even being supper vigilant. They've almost become a non options. Only for use in dire situations. This gentleman would like to enquire as to what you are smoking or if you have just not bothered to actually test bastion on the test server. my guess would be the latter as I wouldnt like to assume mind altering substance abuse. First of, with base sensor changes and a single sebo I'm locking frigs in under 9 seconds. so far in 95% of the time Ive popped eve frig that has auto agressed in any mission and have popped 100% of every frig that hasent. the 5% ive killed with my light drones and not got a single one shot at. Your example of mjd usage is... not so good. plainly speaking, you sir are doing it very very wrong. please test on sissi so your future posts are not tainted by ignorance.
I have not tested on Sisi in some time. I didn't realize the sensor changes had that large of an effect on lock times. In missions that have a lot of frigs I find it hard to kill all of them before they start to orbit. having a cycle time of around 5.6 seconds its not possible. I also realize that on sisi you can MJD away to get the rest. I still think that it would increase time to complete the mission. I am just brain storming, I hope I am not offending anyone.
P.s. drugs are bad mmkay |
baltec1
Bat Country
8282
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:29:00 -
[6078] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:
Hmm, well I have trouble hitting drones once they are inside of 30k with any 425mm rails on any ships. I try and kill them before they get within 40k which doesn't always happen either. I am unsure how you are managing at 15k as that has not be my experience. I'll accept that you do.
Blasters.
Your rails should still be effective down to 15 to 20k if you burn away from the frigs and force them to follow. |
Cannibal Kane
My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse Cannibal Empire
2532
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:42:00 -
[6079] - Quote
Well...
I guess that stops me using my Kronos for PVP.
I liked it for the simple fact that it was a MEGA on Steroids with utility HighSlots and and the ability to quickly kill small targets thanks to the extre WEB Bones.
Same DPS More Buffer 3 Nuets Web Bonus
I don't PVE but the WEB Loss in PVP makes the ship not worth it to PVP in.
Might as well replace it with the Cheaper MEGA Navy which has 1 nuet and fit two webs on it to take care of those smaller pesky targets.
Sometimes I wonder if CPP just thinks of **** to justify their salaries or if they wake in morning... How can we screw with things today to **** people off.
I have never used a MJD and never will. I just don't see the need for it for it other than for the PVE folks. Jumping around in PVP.. please.. catch a wake up CCP. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:42:00 -
[6080] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:
Hmm, well I have trouble hitting drones once they are inside of 30k with any 425mm rails on any ships. I try and kill them before they get within 40k which doesn't always happen either. I am unsure how you are managing at 15k as that has not be my experience. I'll accept that you do.
Blasters. Your rails should still be effective down to 15 to 20k if you burn away from the frigs and force them to follow. im sure rails and arty will also be effective for their increased dammage application at longer ranges than AC and blasters and will be vable alternatives but they WILL require slightly different tactics. that said I was blown away by what difference just two TC did to my tracking and ability to hit frigs as well as the decrease in locking time with a single sebo (base 166, 266 sebo'd scan res).
from my testing last night Id say my average missipn times will prolly go down once I get used to the bastion timing and proper use of the mjd. jumping into the center of a ball of cruiser/bs had me ripping them a new one in half the time it would have taken me normally. |
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Jade Knight07
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:45:00 -
[6081] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:
Hmm, well I have trouble hitting drones once they are inside of 30k with any 425mm rails on any ships. I try and kill them before they get within 40k which doesn't always happen either. I am unsure how you are managing at 15k as that has not be my experience. I'll accept that you do.
Blasters. Your rails should still be effective down to 15 to 20k if you burn away from the frigs and force them to follow.
To a point. I didn't want to explain all the tactics I use while running missions but I'll attempt to get most of them in real quick.
I always kill frigs first I try and go for those that might web or scramble me first. Depending on the mission I might burn away like smash the supplier. Where I accept I won't be able to salvage a lot of the wrecks while running the mission. In others I try and stay close enough to the wrecks to tractor and salvage. With the new T2 tractor beams that is within 48k. Because I am attempting to say close to the wrecks I use ammo that puts my optimal around that. IIRC I've been using plutonium(45 optimal) more recently. Before I used Uranium(56 optimal). There are a number of serp missions where there is a massive amount of small ships, mostly frigs, destroyers, and cruisers. These missions I will head in the opposite direction. My goal is to clear and salvage at the same time. This way when I am done popping the ships there usually is only a few wrecks left to be salvage.
When it comes to fitting I don't use a lows for tank, DCUII, LAR, 2 Omni tank mods and 3 damage mods. mids is a MWD, Weber, 2 Cap Rechargers.
With this I don't have to refit for new missions, and its very effective (quick). Its not cap stable but its close. I absolute love this setup and I really don't want it to change. This is why I am against anything that is going to alter how I use it. I spent years training for this ship and spent a lot of time getting the funds together.
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Sato Page
TACTICAL AGGRESSION SteRoid.
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:47:00 -
[6082] - Quote
Hi CCP I have an idea. How about remove incursion from hisec, this will surely force people to PvP in their Paladins and Kronoses.
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Lina Theist
Rosendal Research and Development
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:50:00 -
[6083] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Why keeping the damage projection in Bastion stacking penalized? We want to keep the projection in check. A Paladin with Scorch can already reach insane ranges (to the point where Beams are quite redundant on it), so we are not willing to remove the stacking penalty for now. Or at least not until we are seeing some hard use numbers on TQ first. Why would I want to use Marauders in Incursions now that the web bonus is gone? There are other advantages to Marauders - internal play tests have shown us than kitting through the MJD bonus is very effective, as NPC warp scramblers don't stop you from using it. Plus their tank is good enough not to require Logistic support. Bottom line is, we are not willing to leave a web bonus on Marauders to cater to ultra-specialized Incursion fittings when that conflicts with our design goals and their role as a whole. Especially when alternative tactics exist that make them still very effective in Incursions. [/list] Hope that helps, I will post the changes in the original thread .
Perhaps the scorch issue lies not with the modules but with the ammo? I would argue that null is amazingly good as well, and I can't express an opinion on hail or whatever because I'm not a dirty minmatar pilot. Scorch could either use a damage nerf or a projection nerf to keep it in line with null. Food for thought.
Also, it was news to me that MJDs work through NPC scrams and I must admit that makes them a lot more interesting to me. If you buff tractor beam speed/range to keep it in line with the MJD jump range I as a wormhole dweller would actually try these changes out. |
Wedgetail
Helix Pulse Brothers of Tangra
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:51:00 -
[6084] - Quote
Serge SC wrote:
The Vargur, I'm trying to understand why our matari pride is so underpowered and doesn't really make sense. Tracking bonus is useless for a sniper, but damage and ROF is too much..100% to gun damage, 25% to gun damage AND 25% ROF? Too much. What other way to increase the damage? The low DPS is inherent to artilleries then (BUFF 1400!! zOMGWTFBBQLOLPWETTYPWEASE)
I've seen 1400mm tempests instapop kiting stealth bombers, clearly you're underestimating the sheer badassery a high tracking no damage lost to range 1400mm ship represents to anything larger than space dust.....
there's a reason the vargur has only 1/3rd the PG of a maelstrom upon its initial release...and tracking buffed 1400mm's were it.
@Ytterbium & co.
I'm relieved to see CCP is actually decided on doing their job now, however bastion is still a broken box of fertilizer that doesn't really achieve much of anything that's not already there for the ships to use as they are now on TQ.
honestly believe CCP should stop focusing on making these 'solo battleships' cuz battleships don't solo (they used to, but no longer and never again) - they work in packs or teams, at lowest supported 1 BS with a few(2-3) BC/t3 hulls (granted many good nano pest, machariel and phoon fits that used to do well prior nerfs - but not anymore) slow, low agility ships on hunting roams are dead ships, or best ships that go home empty handed.
so i can't help but sit here and laugh when i read your posts suggesting you're scared at these ships being good in RR fleets, even though it's what marauders are currently good at - it's like they don't wanna see people working as a team in EvE and want us all to become self dependent isolationists that wouldn't understand the concept of a fleet even after it hit us in the face.
marauders are already tanky enough for missions, incursions and anomalies, already have enough capacitor recovery when flown right to not need an ASB EVER, much less a dual fit (sure it still has advantages but it's not the requirement many here are suggesting it is)
what they lack is a good way to roll them into fleets where PvP pilots can actually use them, without needing to undock 4 squadrons of remote booster ships for one marauder hull - damage projection's no good when you're fighting at ranges less than 50 kilometers 9/10 times and at 150 for the rest - these ships already project at those ranges - and more importantly so do the targets they're trying to hunt.
ewar immunity's great and all but i can't move to maintain my own tackle, no battleship really can - so will be required to function in a team anyway if i hope to kill anything, may as well carry another vampire instead to power my shield booster while i nuke the target my interceptors have caught - or better yet a few RR mods and cap xfers.
you need to rethink the system a bit as i have said before, and'll be inclined to keep saying until you've got it done - you've been given good ideas here make use of them.
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baltec1
Bat Country
8282
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:57:00 -
[6085] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:
With this I don't have to refit for new missions, and its very effective (quick). Its not cap stable but its close. I absolute love this setup and I really don't want it to change. This is why I am against anything that is going to alter how I use it. I spent years training for this ship and spent a lot of time getting the funds together.
Edit: typo's
You can drop that down to just two or three tank mods now though for level 4s. This leaves you with a good number of free slots to get more tracking and damage on this ship. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:12:00 -
[6086] - Quote
Jade Knight07 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Jade Knight07 wrote:
Hmm, well I have trouble hitting drones once they are inside of 30k with any 425mm rails on any ships. I try and kill them before they get within 40k which doesn't always happen either. I am unsure how you are managing at 15k as that has not be my experience. I'll accept that you do.
Blasters. Your rails should still be effective down to 15 to 20k if you burn away from the frigs and force them to follow. To a point. I didn't want to explain all the tactics I use while running missions but I'll attempt to get most of them in real quick. I always kill frigs first I try and go for those that might web or scramble me first. Depending on the mission I might burn away like smash the supplier. Where I accept I won't be able to salvage a lot of the wrecks while running the mission. In others I try and stay close enough to the wrecks to tractor and salvage. With the new T2 tractor beams that is within 48k. Because I am attempting to say close to the wrecks I use ammo that puts my optimal around that. IIRC I've been using plutonium(45 optimal) more recently. Before I used Uranium(56 optimal). There are a number of serp missions where there is a massive amount of small ships, mostly frigs, destroyers, and cruisers. These missions I will head in the opposite direction. My goal is to clear and salvage at the same time. This way when I am done popping the ships there usually is only a few wrecks left to be salvage. When it comes to fitting I don't use a (lot of: was trying to say I don't waste lows on unnecessary tank) lows for tank, DCUII, LAR, 2 Omni tank mods and 3 damage mods. mids is a MWD, Weber, 2 Cap Rechargers. With this I don't have to refit for new missions, and its very effective (quick). Its not cap stable but its close. I absolute love this setup and I really don't want it to change. This is why I am against anything that is going to alter how I use it. I spent years training for this ship and spent a lot of time getting the funds together. Edit: typo's my testing has shown that a single omni tank mod and the LAR is all you will need, have fun with your two free lows. you can replace the webber with a tracking mod, a cap recharger with a sebo because of how strong your reps are and replace the mwd with a mjd. you might even be able to replace the second cap booster with a TC too. you can switch from tracking scripts to range as needed and even use AM ammo.
adapt and you will do missions so much faster than before. also remember, no more npc ewar, ever! |
Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:15:00 -
[6087] - Quote
[Vargur, Tech2] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script X-Large Shield Booster II 100MN Afterburner II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] <-- Bastion
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Warrior II x5 Bouncer II x2
---
[Machariel, New Setup 1 copy 1] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster 100MN Afterburner II Pith A-Type Explosive Deflection Field Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Projectile Burst Aerator I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Bouncer II x4 Warrior II x5
While the Vargur becomes a lot more unattractive to gankers it stays weaker in pure DPS output and through bastion it ends up in less applied damage.
old summary of mine:
Quote:Macha:
1154 DPS (with sentries 1343 DPS) 540 m/s 4,1 + 61 km opti + fall off
Way of increasing Damage: Afterburner on and keep distance beneath 30km = >909,0 Gun DPS
Vargur:
1082 DPS (with sentries 1176 DPS) 312 m/s 4,1 + 69 km opti + fall off (5,4 +74 within Bastion)
Way of increasing Damage: Jump into fleet, switch on bastion fight distance 40-50 km (average 45) = 792,5 Gun DPS
And thats without drones. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:23:00 -
[6088] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote:[Vargur, Tech2] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script X-Large Shield Booster II 100MN Afterburner II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] <-- Bastion Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Warrior II x5 Bouncer II x2 --- [Machariel, New Setup 1 copy 1] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster 100MN Afterburner II Pith A-Type Explosive Deflection Field Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II Large Projectile Burst Aerator I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Bouncer II x4 Warrior II x5 While the Vargur becomes a lot more unattractive to gankers it stays weaker in pure DPS output and through bastion it ends up in less applied damage. old summary of mine: Quote:Macha:
1154 DPS (with sentries 1343 DPS) 540 m/s 4,1 + 61 km opti + fall off
Way of increasing Damage: Afterburner on and keep distance beneath 30km = >909,0 Gun DPS
Vargur:
1082 DPS (with sentries 1176 DPS) 312 m/s 4,1 + 69 km opti + fall off (5,4 +74 within Bastion)
Way of increasing Damage: Jump into fleet, switch on bastion fight distance 40-50 km (average 45) = 792,5 Gun DPS
And thats without drones. that vargur is overtanked and you completely missed the point of the mjd! drop the 2nd invul, get a gist large b-type and replace mwd with mjd. fit sebo/3rd TC to taste and proceed to kick some faces in. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8282
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:26:00 -
[6089] - Quote
Its not ment to out damage the pirate ship |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:30:00 -
[6090] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Its not ment to out damage the pirate ship this is very true. what a lot of eft warriors dont get, and is evident from the fits they post, is that we fly the marauder because ir dan loot and salvage AT THE SAME TIME!
doing 10% less damage is acceptable if we make double the isk in the same amount of time. |
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