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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
20
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Posted - 2013.11.15 18:41:00 -
[7711] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Fyi, changed skill requirements on the Bastion Module from High Energy Physics 4 and Energy Grid Upgrades 5 to Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5 and Energy Grid Upgrades 5. [..]
Why Golem doesnt have build in bonus from EW module and is forced to waste med slot to be usefull?
Why Bastion module got double range bonus on turrets (25% to optimal and 25% to falloff) while only partiary range bonus on missiles?
Does Bastion module makes Golem invulnerable against defender missiles same as makes rest marauders invulnerable against tracking disruptors?
Why Golem is the only marauder who doesnt have damage bonus or rof bonus (despite fact that for example Vargur can change damage types and got rof bonus)? |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
371
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Posted - 2013.11.15 18:43:00 -
[7712] - Quote
Looking forward to finding a blinged up marauder in WH space soon.
Winter marauders - more replies than any other thread, for a ship that no-one flies :-)
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
209
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Posted - 2013.11.15 18:48:00 -
[7713] - Quote
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote: Why Golem is the only marauder who doesnt have damage bonus or rof bonus (despite fact that for example Vargur can change damage types and got rof bonus)?
Raven has 6 launchers and 25% RoF.
That makes 6 * 1.3333334 = 8
Golem has 4 * 2 = 8
So same as raven.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
596
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Posted - 2013.11.15 18:52:00 -
[7714] - Quote
sad to see golem still has TP bonus in patch notes ..... should be explosion velocity Ytterbium come on.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
20
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Posted - 2013.11.15 19:29:00 -
[7715] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote: Why Golem is the only marauder who doesnt have damage bonus or rof bonus (despite fact that for example Vargur can change damage types and got rof bonus)?
Raven has 6 launchers and 25% RoF. That makes 6 * 1.3333334 = 8 Golem has 4 * 2 = 8 So same as raven. If u trying to proove something, u are wrong:
Tempest with 4x 1400mm T2 and EMP got 336dps Vargur with 4x 1400mm T2 and EMP got 359dps (so overall 7% increase in damage)
Apocalypse with 8x Tachyons T2 and Multifrequency got 364dps Paladin with 4x Tachyons T2 and Multifrequency got 455dps (so overall 25% increase in damage)
Megathron with 7x 425mm Rails T2 and Antimatter got 373dps Kronos with 4x 425mm Rails T2 and Antimatter got 400 dps (so overall 7% increase in damage)
Raven with 6x Cruise Launcher T2 and Scourge got 362dps Golem with 4x Cruise Launchers T2 and Scourge got 362 dps (so overall 0% increase in damage) +fact that u need to wait for missiles to reach target |
Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
61
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:04:00 -
[7716] - Quote
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote:Spc One wrote:Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote: Why Golem is the only marauder who doesnt have damage bonus or rof bonus (despite fact that for example Vargur can change damage types and got rof bonus)?
Raven has 6 launchers and 25% RoF. That makes 6 * 1.3333334 = 8 Golem has 4 * 2 = 8 So same as raven. Lets compare damage differences between T1 and T2 hulls:Tempest with 6x 1400mm T2 and EMP got 336dps Vargur with 4x 1400mm T2 and EMP got 359dps (so overall 7% increase in damage) Apocalypse with 8x Tachyons T2 and Multifrequency got 364dps Paladin with 4x Tachyons T2 and Multifrequency got 455dps (so overall 25% increase in damage) Megathron with 7x 425mm Rails T2 and Antimatter got 373dps Kronos with 4x 425mm Rails T2 and Antimatter got 400 dps (so overall 7% increase in damage) Raven with 6x Cruise Launcher T2 and Scourge got 362dps Golem with 4x Cruise Launchers T2 and Scourge got 362 dps ( nothing) +fact that u need to wait for missiles to reach target and waste med slot for something that should be build in If we talk about range difference:Tempest with 6x 1400mm T2 and EMP got 30+44km range Vargur with 4x 1400mm T2 and EMP got 30+66km range ( 22km better falloff) Apocalypse with 8x Tachyons T2 and Multifrequency got 45+25km Paladin with 4x Tachyons T2 and Multifrequency got 45+25km (no difference in range, but still 25% more damage) Megathron with 7x 425mm Rails T2 and Antimatter got 36+30km range Kronos with 4x 425mm Rails T2 and Antimatter got 36+38km range (8km better falloff) Raven with 6x Torpedo Launcher T2 and Scourge got 30km Golem with 4x Torpedo Launchers T2 and Scourge got 30km ( nothing, no damage increase, no range increase) +fact that u need to wait for missiles to reach target and waste med slot for something that should be build in
Bastion bonuses are GARBAGE for Vargur and Golem, most lame crap to be changed in the last year or so. Missile velocity bonus needs to be alot higher or not stacking penalized, Vargur doesn't benefit from bastion falloff anyway as you already fit 3 tcs (yeah ok, it gains 6.5% more falloff, woo!!)
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Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
20
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:08:00 -
[7717] - Quote
Doed wrote: Bastion bonuses are GARBAGE for Vargur and Golem, most lame crap to be changed in the last year or so. Missile velocity bonus needs to be alot higher or not stacking penalized, Vargur doesn't benefit from bastion falloff anyway as you already fit 3 tcs (yeah ok, it gains 6.5% more falloff, woo!!)
Thats true + fact that we dont even have range mods for missiles.
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Endaashi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:22:00 -
[7718] - Quote
Patch notes are up. Looks like there won't be any more tweaking of the stats. That's just sad |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1477
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:27:00 -
[7719] - Quote
Endaashi wrote:Patch notes are up. Looks like there won't be any more tweaking of the stats. That's just sad
they are playing the wait and see game.
expect if there are any changes by 1.1 release
personally i am more disapointed about the SOA ships having terrible fittings and lackluster dps all in the name of cloaks. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
61
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:17:00 -
[7720] - Quote
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote:Doed wrote: Bastion bonuses are GARBAGE for Vargur and Golem, most lame crap to be changed in the last year or so. Missile velocity bonus needs to be alot higher or not stacking penalized, Vargur doesn't benefit from bastion falloff anyway as you already fit 3 tcs (yeah ok, it gains 6.5% more falloff, woo!!)
Well we dont even have range mods for missiles.
I was thinknig dual Hydraulic Bay Thrusters and Torps, only 56% benefit from bastion on top of that yielding you about 46km range with navy torps... which is just lame when you're "rooted" in place. |
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
580
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:30:00 -
[7721] - Quote
Endaashi wrote:Patch notes are up. Looks like there won't be any more tweaking of the stats. That's just sad Wasn't that obvious last week already...? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Endaashi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:35:00 -
[7722] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Endaashi wrote:Patch notes are up. Looks like there won't be any more tweaking of the stats. That's just sad Wasn't that obvious last week already...?
Only obvious to you because you're delirious from all your time traveling |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1477
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:52:00 -
[7723] - Quote
Endaashi wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Endaashi wrote:Patch notes are up. Looks like there won't be any more tweaking of the stats. That's just sad Wasn't that obvious last week already...? Only obvious to you because you're delirious from all your time traveling
Are you Sarah Conor? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
580
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Posted - 2013.11.15 22:02:00 -
[7724] - Quote
Endaashi wrote:Only obvious to you because you're delirious from all your time traveling I'll be back. Last week. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Maxxor Brutor
Imperial Collective
8
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Posted - 2013.11.16 00:21:00 -
[7725] - Quote
Nothing in the patch log about the target painter cycle changes, hope it's still on (posted here since it was weasled into the marauder changes).
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Brib Vogt
DC-centre Destiny's Call
39
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Posted - 2013.11.16 10:22:00 -
[7726] - Quote
The questions are coming from Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink. Awesome name by the way. I hope there is another char on your acount with a short name. Loggin in and to be forst to type in the nam of this one would be so awefull
1. Why Golem doesn't have build in bonus from EW module and is forced to waste med/tank slot to be usefull?
Nobody forces you. Golem is a good pve ship and it becomes better with tp bonus.
2. Why Bastion module got double range bonus on turrets (25% to optimal and 25% to falloff) while only 25% to missile speed (why its not 50% or at least 37,5% since missiles doesn't have falloff)?
Those questions mostly come from people with no idea of guns in the game. in the end it would be fair if it would be like 25% optimal 25% missile speed and 50% fall off. You know that the Golem is the only marauder with selectable t2 damage types. Even vargur is then stuck in explosive.
Vargur has high damage loss over distance. Paladin is stuck in EM. Kronos in thermal kinetik. Golem sucks with torps but out ranges everything with damage changing cruise missiles.
3. Does Bastion module makes Golem invulnerable against defender missiles same as makes rest marauders invulnerable against tracking disruptors?
I used a cruise/bastion golem in around 10 missions on sissi and the damage loss through defenders is negligible. You do the same dps to all npcs and over all distances. If this is not a big advantage.
4. Why Golem is the only marauder who doesnt have damage bonus or rof bonus
Because you can use all T2 damage types to increase damage to the lowest resist. |
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
20
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Posted - 2013.11.16 11:31:00 -
[7727] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote: Nobody forces you. Golem is a good pve ship and it becomes better with tp bonus.
looks like u are new in this game since u are thinking that u dont really need proper ship bonuses
>>> Those questions mostly come [...] *stuff* >>> U really dont know what u are saying dont you?. Because otherwise u would know that every turret can damage stuff beyond optimal range and boosting both optimal and fallof increases effective range such ship can deal damage far beyond any missile ship. Having 8km optimal and 8km falloff more on turrets is allways better than just 8km optimal on missiles since in case of short range missiles like torpedoes your enemy can just set orbit at 1km beyond your missile optimal and u are dead. Doing same thing against turreted ship wont help u at all since he will catch u anyway. Thats why missiles are so easy avoidable (even long range ones since at some point u can just warp away before they will hit u).
>>> Vargur has high damage loss over distance. >>> do u even know how projectiles work? also its better to have damage loss across 60km than no damage at all
>>> Paladin is stuck in EM >>> Paladin is outdpsing this small drawback having considerably better dps than other ships
>>> Kronos in thermal kinetik >>> and its... bad? have u ever played Kronos?
>>> Golem sucks with torps but out ranges everything with damage changing cruise missiles >>> Sniping with cruise missiles? really? another hint for u: check how long cruise missiles will fly to target 200k away and then check how fast this target will warp away. No one is using cruises in pvp and even for pve at certain distance u will launch another wave of cruises while previous is still flying to target and its a matter of how much of them will be destroyed by defender missiles. After this sometimes u will loose dps since previous wave was enought, and sometimes u wont since next wave was needed. Not even talking about fact that Bastion Module isnt making your weapons invulnerable to defenders but makes turreted marauders invulnerable to tracking disruptors.
>>> I used a cruise/bastion golem in around 10 missions on sissi and the damage loss through defenders is negligible. You do the same dps to all npcs and over all distances. If this is not a big advantage. >>> How did u managed that? watching missiles explosions in space?
>>> Because you can use all T2 damage types to increase damage to the lowest resist >>> ??? Are u serious?. Do u really think that people are flying with holes in their resists?. Shooting armor ships with for example Kinetic or Thermal is most of time far more viable since they got Explo hole plugged well. Also u failed to realize that switching damage types makes your ship not dps at all for 10 seconds, and even if u change damage type u still dont know if u choose right. If u really want that explosion damage on Kronos u can allways grab explo drones. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
132
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Posted - 2013.11.16 13:52:00 -
[7728] - Quote
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote:2. Why Bastion module got double range bonus on turrets (25% to optimal and 25% to falloff) while only 25% to missile speed (why its not 50% or at least 37,5% since missiles doesnt have falloff)?
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote:U really dont know what u are saying dont you?. Because otherwise u would know that every turret can damage stuff beyond optimal range and boosting both optimal and fallof increases effective range such ship can deal damage far beyond any missile ship. Having 8km optimal and 8km falloff more on turrets is allways better than just 8km optimal on missiles[....] It seems you not only didn't complete your math lessons but also don't know your ships and weapons. We're not talking about turret's 8km optimal + 8km falloff vs. 8km of missile range. Comparing blasters with torps, before any bonuses are applied it's 4.5km + 12.5km vs. 19.4km (according to PYFA, blasters with antimatter). Going long range we have 36+30 vs. 148km on rails (with antimatter again) vs. cruises. Now apply those respective 25% bonuses and then go back here to discuss whether bastion bonuses are fair or not. |
Pirsu Malami
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.11.16 14:48:00 -
[7729] - Quote
About the paladin animation... disappointing, I would have expected the top plates to fold out and make it look like it was anchoring, not just the bottom open a bit... i'm sad |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
651
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Posted - 2013.11.16 17:03:00 -
[7730] - Quote
Pirsu Malami wrote:About the paladin animation... disappointing, I would have expected the top plates to fold out and make it look like it was anchoring, not just the bottom open a bit... i'm sad
Golem is pretty disappointing as well.. |
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Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:01:00 -
[7731] - Quote
if golem is so disappointing then why the hell are the prices for one so high? it is 1.4 billion at rens and 1.2 at jita. the other marauders are around 1b. i think golem will be the strongest marauder with bastion mode. it is the only marader that doesnt lose dps due to being stationary. people who are complaintin just dont know how to fly a missile boat |
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
20
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:28:00 -
[7732] - Quote
Idk if u are trolling or just made a reply in wrong topic mate. We were not talking about blasters at all. There is also no logic behind comparing railguns with short range ammo and cruise missiles. One of biggest difference in missiles is that they need time to reach their target (while turrets are dealing damage with no delay). You could very well compare Rails with Spike (130km optimal + 30km falloff) and Torps, there is no logic behind such comparsion also. Every weapon systems got different optimals, damage, tracking or explosion velocity. Whats same is the environment u are, in case of marauders - mainly pve activities. Now find whats the average orbit of typical npcs and u will have your answer why we were talking about weapon systems with at least 30km optimal. In case u were thinking about pvp - try finding single battle from last.. 5 years where fleet setup was mainly ravens with cruise missiles. You wont find anything. Then check popularity of ships like Talos or Rokh, and then check their hi slot fittings. If u are asking why no one is using cruise missiles in pvp while railguns are a very viable weapon systems, answer lies here https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Missiles
Dont get me wrong mate but if 3 kills and 9 looses is all what u achieved in EvE then u should really undock and check some of your ideas in space (not saying they are all wrong) http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=hmskrecik
If u want u can see my setups too http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Xqpvqsvs+Qr%27atyuqink |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
132
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:48:00 -
[7733] - Quote
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote: Idk if u are trolling or just made a reply in wrong topic mate. We were not talking about blasters at all. There is also no logic behind comparing railguns with short range ammo and cruise missiles.
I'm not comparing performance of weapons. I just used them as an example of effective range. The point is, both in case of guns and of missile bastion gives 25% bonus to range. So if you keep talking about "double bonus" to guns then either you are trolling or you're just confused.
Edit: I can't care less about KB stats (should be 0 vs. 9 but my friend submitted those kills before I could protest). If you think that whatever position you hold there gives you more merit regarding simple math then... well... think again. |
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
20
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Posted - 2013.11.16 20:00:00 -
[7734] - Quote
Well if u would press the undock button from time to time, u would know that some ships are operating mainly in their optimals and some are relying on their falloff. Some guns got plenty of optimal and not really much of falloff, some got not bad optimal and decent falloff. U are saying alot about percentages, but u are forgeting that 25% from A is not equal to 25% of B (one ship will gain 8km while other will gain 20km of their operating range). Also not every weapon systems is viable on marauders even if your EFT says otherwise. Some of them can have viable results in short and long range weapon systems, but some dont. One of such ship is the Golem with reasons pointed earlier. No one (or almost no one) uses Cruise Missiles in pvp, and Golem in general was created for Torpedoes (but u dont know this since u never flew the Golem or missile ship in general). Maybe its not the best way of balancing stuff but since we dont even have range mods for missiles (like low slot target painters), thoose numbers in Bastion module ccp thinks we should grab and go pew pew, are really important in Golem case. As of turrets, there is plenty of areas where for example 1400mm howies are viable but Cruise missiles are not. Try shooting inty moving towards u from like 50k with cruises, gl with that, but with howies u can pop him in one volley.
p.s regarding your theories in open space, trying to pvp with 3 cap rechargers or mixing shield flux coils with blasters and no prop mods is not the smartest way you know. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
133
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Posted - 2013.11.16 21:10:00 -
[7735] - Quote
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote:[wall of text] I do happen to press undock button from time to time.
To keep ourselves focused, I'm discussing only about your remarks regarding bastion range bonuses. Bastion adds 25% effective range to ALL weapons, whether you admit this fact or not. Missiles have increased speed, which means that despite longer range the flight time is not increased.
And regarding your comments about guns, I used all of them so I know a bit or two about both optimal and falloff, that's why I understand why bastion had to apply bonus to both attributes.
Quote:p.s regarding your theories in open space, trying to pvp with 3 cap rechargers or mixing shield flux coils with blasters and no prop mods is not the smartest way you know. Honestly I have no idea what are you referring to but whatever. No matter how much I suck at PVP won't change a bit the fact how much you did not get simple calculations. |
M1k3y Koontz
thorn project Surely You're Joking
405
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Posted - 2013.11.17 02:04:00 -
[7736] - Quote
Mer88 wrote:[The Golem] is the only marader that doesnt lose dps due to being stationary.
Wait, what?
No ship LOSES DPS because it isn't moving... are you referring to how gun ships can mitigate transversal by moving in line with its target? Cause BSs have about zero chance of being able to do that.
Golem will be the best because it will be an ECM immune NRaven. Because **** ECM RATS!!! (I haven't done any Guristas ratting in over a YEAR and those things are still the single most annoying thing I've ever dealt with in EVE... other than "solo" players who bring a falcon alt, but that's a rant for another thread.) How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas Permanent Mental Syndrome
51
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Posted - 2013.11.17 07:03:00 -
[7737] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
... are you referring to how gun ships can mitigate transversal by moving in line with its target? Cause BSs have about zero chance of being able to do that...
Shhhh! There are angry Vargur pilots around here, who're about to loose this ability at some degree in Rubicon.
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hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
133
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Posted - 2013.11.17 07:40:00 -
[7738] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:are you referring to how gun ships can mitigate transversal by moving in line with its target? Cause BSs have about zero chance of being able to do that. My rail Kronos would like to have a word with you.
Yes, I have tried. No, it doesn't allow to kill orbiting frigs and dessies. Yes, it still helps with cruisers and up. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
778
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Posted - 2013.11.17 08:15:00 -
[7739] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Mer88 wrote:[The Golem] is the only marader that doesnt lose dps due to being stationary. Wait, what? No ship LOSES DPS because it isn't moving... are you referring to how gun ships can mitigate transversal by moving in line with its target? Cause BSs have about zero chance of being able to do that. Golem will be the best because it will be an ECM immune NRaven. Because **** ECM RATS!!!(I haven't done any Guristas ratting in over a YEAR and those things are still the single most annoying thing I've ever dealt with in EVE... other than "solo" players who bring a falcon alt, but that's a rant for another thread.)
Only if you never tried! A vargur could match the non MWD Speed of non angel frigates and coudl even overtake most cruisers.
Stop stop typing 3!#!#!!
540 ms is more than enough to AB around avoiding the enemy transversal "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
8590
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 08:47:00 -
[7740] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:are you referring to how gun ships can mitigate transversal by moving in line with its target? Cause BSs have about zero chance of being able to do that. My rail Kronos would like to have a word with you. Yes, I have tried. No, it doesn't allow to kill orbiting frigs and dessies. Yes, it still helps with cruisers and up.
Blaster kronos will track npc frigs all the way down to 10km Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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