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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
605
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:41:00 -
[1201] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Wu Phat wrote:Rework Lvl 5 Missions, as in remove all "Frigate Class Rats" and you sir have buffed low sec. Another way to make Isk out side of Sovereignty Null & Incursions and cause people to get territorial over gets a +1 from me. If CCP goes this way. The Vargur doesn't even need drones to shoot frigates anymore. With the +20% tracking ammo loaded and 3 tracking mods, 800mm ACs have ~0.17 tracking, which is better than the tracking of medium neutrons.
Yeah, this is totally how the tracking formula works, cause there's no such thing as weapon signature size or target sig radius... |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:50:00 -
[1202] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Xequecal wrote:Wu Phat wrote:Rework Lvl 5 Missions, as in remove all "Frigate Class Rats" and you sir have buffed low sec. Another way to make Isk out side of Sovereignty Null & Incursions and cause people to get territorial over gets a +1 from me. If CCP goes this way. The Vargur doesn't even need drones to shoot frigates anymore. With the +20% tracking ammo loaded and 3 tracking mods, 800mm ACs have ~0.17 tracking, which is better than the tracking of medium neutrons. Yeah, this is totally how the tracking formula works, cause there's no such thing as weapon signature size or target sig radius...
chance to hit and tracking arent same thing |
Stay Thirsty
The Chosen Children
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:55:00 -
[1203] - Quote
I will state this again, although it will be the 25th time it has been stated (hoping it catches the eye of CCP).
Make the tractor range bonus something useful with the new MJD range. IE... 500% tractor range bonus, or better yet make it a totally different bonus unrelated to tractors. 500% would be 100km, which is slightly further than a max trained Noctis. As it stands right now, the Marauders' tractors are not that effective in missions where wrecks are spread. It is better to BM and return with a Noctis. I can only imagine if you jump 100km away you are not going to slow-boat back to the 40km range to use the tractor. I foresee the combination of a MJD and a 100% bonus will lead to a massive drop in the utilization of marauder with tractors all-together.
Personally I would rather see a total different bonus. If you are switching these to being a dual PVE/PVP boat, the tractor bonus is fairly useless in either situation. It does nothing for a PVP doctrine as I can't really see using a billion ISK ship as your looter / salvager. I don't think many mission runners are going to use the Marauder as a kill / loot / salvage boat again since the Noctis was invented. Especially now with a reduced drone bay that makes having a flight of salvage drones not as easy. In PVE, it still remains more efficient to come back in a Noctis, or simply contract your wrecks to someone like Pro-Synergy.
If you are totally set on keeping the bonus to tractor, at least with a 100km range, the tractor may get some use in PVE for wreck-balling. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 23:43:00 -
[1204] - Quote
Battle Cube wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:Xequecal wrote:Wu Phat wrote:Rework Lvl 5 Missions, as in remove all "Frigate Class Rats" and you sir have buffed low sec. Another way to make Isk out side of Sovereignty Null & Incursions and cause people to get territorial over gets a +1 from me. If CCP goes this way. The Vargur doesn't even need drones to shoot frigates anymore. With the +20% tracking ammo loaded and 3 tracking mods, 800mm ACs have ~0.17 tracking, which is better than the tracking of medium neutrons. Yeah, this is totally how the tracking formula works, cause there's no such thing as weapon signature size or target sig radius... chance to hit and tracking arent same thing
Yeah, actually they kind of are. Tracking is entirely a component of the damage application formula. Your tracking factors into you chance to hit but comparing raw tracking numbers between weapons classes doesn't work by itself. |
NiteNinja
Night Raven Task Force
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 23:53:00 -
[1205] - Quote
And to add onto my previous post with the Golem and the Torpedoes vs Cruises deliemma... if you're trying to gear the Golem up for Cruise missiles (long range combat), then do something with defender missiles.
1 defender missile = 1/4 of the Golem's DPS, so the Golem will become the weaker of the 4 Marauders if you plan on using it for PVP like the original topic is about. Can't null 1/4 of the ammo on the other 3 ships that easily.
And most NPC's use defenders. More nerfage so the Golem won't be practical for PVE either... >.>
Might as well sell off my ship and go back to a Navy Raven. |
Hedor
Torsion Industries Asgard Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 23:57:00 -
[1206] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though). Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though.
Only problem I have with this explanation is this, my golem has nothing in low slots but damage mods, so its not like the bastion module will let me remove anything to add more dps, with a lower drone bay and no more slots in low I cant even do some good sentry damage with drone damage amp's......... This is pure tank and not much else for the bastion module, for its intended effect, it really does need some sort of bonus to damage, or I need another low slot on my golem :D. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
66
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:04:00 -
[1207] - Quote
NiteNinja wrote:And to add onto my previous post with the Golem and the Torpedoes vs Cruises deliemma... if you're trying to gear the Golem up for Cruise missiles (long range combat), then do something with defender missiles.
1 defender missile = 1/4 of the Golem's DPS, so the Golem will become the weaker of the 4 Marauders if you plan on using it for PVP like the original topic is about. Can't null 1/4 of the ammo on the other 3 ships that easily.
And most NPC's use defenders. More nerfage so the Golem won't be practical for PVE either... >.>
Might as well sell off my ship and go back to a Navy Raven.
Missile HP bonus on Bastion maybe? Or on the Golem itself so it's more viable as a whole. Would help make up for the lack of a damage bonus on the hull too, since the other three get one along with the stock Raven. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:06:00 -
[1208] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:
Yeah, this is totally how the tracking formula works, cause there's no such thing as weapon signature size or target sig radius...
With the way the chance to hit formula works the less your struggling to track the less significant the signature difference between the ship and weapon your using is to the point that on a stationary target its academic if theres a difference. |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:07:00 -
[1209] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Battle Cube wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:Xequecal wrote:Wu Phat wrote:Rework Lvl 5 Missions, as in remove all "Frigate Class Rats" and you sir have buffed low sec. Another way to make Isk out side of Sovereignty Null & Incursions and cause people to get territorial over gets a +1 from me. If CCP goes this way. The Vargur doesn't even need drones to shoot frigates anymore. With the +20% tracking ammo loaded and 3 tracking mods, 800mm ACs have ~0.17 tracking, which is better than the tracking of medium neutrons. Yeah, this is totally how the tracking formula works, cause there's no such thing as weapon signature size or target sig radius... chance to hit and tracking arent same thing Yeah, actually they kind of are. Tracking is entirely a component of the damage application formula. Your tracking factors into you chance to hit but comparing raw tracking numbers between weapons classes doesn't work by itself.
oh look, chance to hit is different than tracking. Chance to hit includes tracking. Wow, its as if what i just said was entirely accurate.
But yes you are correct chance to hit would be different, tracking is Not the only factor, and comparing large guns to medium guns the sig matters a lot more |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
66
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:07:00 -
[1210] - Quote
Hedor wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though). Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though. Only problem I have with this explanation is this, my golem has nothing in low slots but damage mods, so its not like the bastion module will let me remove anything to add more dps, with a lower drone bay and no more slots in low I cant even do some good sentry damage with drone damage amp's......... This is pure tank and not much else for the bastion module, for its intended effect, it really does need some sort of bonus to damage, or I need another low slot on my golem :D.
Well, if missile-boats get mid-slot damage application mods then this changes. Also you could potentially down-grade your tank to something with less bling or strip tanking modules off in favor of webs and/or target painters. Both of these help the Golem through slots that would otherwise be used for tank. |
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:09:00 -
[1211] - Quote
Battle Cube wrote: oh look, chance to hit is different than tracking. Chance to hit includes tracking. Wow, its as if what i just said was entirely accurate.
The point hes trying to make as per my earlier post the other components of the chance to hit formula become less relevant as your ability to track a target increases. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
66
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:10:00 -
[1212] - Quote
Battle Cube wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Battle Cube wrote: chance to hit and tracking arent same thing
Yeah, actually they kind of are. Tracking is entirely a component of the damage application formula. Your tracking factors into you chance to hit but comparing raw tracking numbers between weapons classes doesn't work by itself. oh look, chance to hit is different than tracking. Chance to hit includes tracking. Wow, its as if what i just said was entirely accurate.
I feel like you are entirely missing the point of the original comment. His implication was that 800 Autocannons would apply damage as well as medium blasters. This is blatantly false.
Also that is the damage-application formula and the only place tracking is taken into account so, yes, that is "tracking".
Rroff wrote:Battle Cube wrote: oh look, chance to hit is different than tracking. Chance to hit includes tracking. Wow, its as if what i just said was entirely accurate.
The point hes trying to make as per my earlier post the other components of the chance to hit formula become less relevant as your ability to track a target increases.
Not really, if anything it becomes more relevant because it becomes harder to get additional boosts to tracking and you start losing a larger relative percentage of damage to signature resolution. Due to stacking penalties at a certain point you're likely to be better off adding a Target Painter than another tracking computer depending on the signature size of the target. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:17:00 -
[1213] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: I feel like you are entirely missing the point of the original comment. His implication was that 800 Autocannons would apply damage as well as medium blasters. This is blatantly false.
On a tricked out vargur say versus a deimos - given both having same on paper dps and ignoring resists against say a crucifier the only thing thats different is the range at which the crucifier can get under their guns - on optimal the damage application is as close as makes no difference identical (yes it really is) despite the differences in gun signature compared to the target.
Cade Windstalker wrote: Not really, if anything it becomes more relevant because it becomes harder to get additional boosts to tracking and you start losing a larger relative percentage of damage to signature resolution. Due to stacking penalties at a certain point you're likely to be better off adding a Target Painter than another tracking computer depending on the signature size of the target.
Thats true to a certain extent but for most intents and purposes if your not having to worry about tracking then sig differences make very little odds in damage application - the formula does not work the way people think it does. |
Caprice Azar
DucKtape Unlimited SpaceMonkey's Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:34:00 -
[1214] - Quote
A vote in favour of not cutting the tractor beam - main reason I am skilling into marauders is so I can grab a little extra isk from the anoms I'm doing, but normal 20km tractors don't reach far enough or the 2 gun slots used by the tractor/salvager eat too much dps. Running a noctis around afterward isn't appealing (I do occasionally when I need some salvage for rigs, but don't like it).
By no means am I thinking I'd salvage the whole site, but there's a bit of down time between targeting a wave & finishing blapping I can spend on salvage - more reason for active playing than afking.
40km is more than enough range, although that doesn't rule out an increase. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
66
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:44:00 -
[1215] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: I feel like you are entirely missing the point of the original comment. His implication was that 800 Autocannons would apply damage as well as medium blasters. This is blatantly false.
On a tricked out vargur say versus a deimos - given both having same on paper dps and ignoring resists against say a crucifier the only thing thats different is the range at which the crucifier can get under their guns - on optimal the damage application is as close as makes no difference identical (yes it really is). Cade Windstalker wrote: Not really, if anything it becomes more relevant because it becomes harder to get additional boosts to tracking and you start losing a larger relative percentage of damage to signature resolution. Due to stacking penalties at a certain point you're likely to be better off adding a Target Painter than another tracking computer depending on the signature size of the target.
Thats true to a certain extent but for most intents and purposes if your not having to worry about tracking then sig differences make very little odds in damage application - the formula does not work the way people think it does.
For a start, I'm actually very well versed in how the formula works, I've spent the last week playing with it in various spreadsheets to figure out the implications of the HAC MWD bonus (it's pretty darn awesome).
Second if you drop the tracking on the Auto-Cannons to .15 and throw a 30% sig buff on a 140 sig target you actually gain more DPS than with the .17 tracking and no sig buff. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1342
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:49:00 -
[1216] - Quote
I don't like the 5% bonus to capacitor capacity on the Paladin. The bonus is based on the Amarr Battleship skill, so it's always a 25% bonus. It feels like a phony bonus! Please can this be rolled into the hull, and replaced with a second weapon bonus like all the other Marauders? A tracking bonus would be nice.
The Golem gets an explosion velocity bonus, the Vargur gets a tracking bonus and the Kronos gets a tracking bonus. The Paladin's the only one without such an application bonus, and it's using lasers? :(
I don't know tracking or weapons much, and the ship does have the falloff boost from the bastion mod, so I don't know if a tracking bonus for Amarr BS skill would be too powerful? But the 5% capacitor capacity feels like a waste when it's always there and always at 25%. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
607
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 00:57:00 -
[1217] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: I feel like you are entirely missing the point of the original comment. His implication was that 800 Autocannons would apply damage as well as medium blasters. This is blatantly false.
On a tricked out vargur say versus a deimos - given both having same on paper dps and ignoring resists against say a crucifier the only thing thats different is the range at which the crucifier can get under their guns - on optimal the damage application is as close as makes no difference identical (yes it really is) despite the differences in gun signature compared to the target. Cade Windstalker wrote: Not really, if anything it becomes more relevant because it becomes harder to get additional boosts to tracking and you start losing a larger relative percentage of damage to signature resolution. Due to stacking penalties at a certain point you're likely to be better off adding a Target Painter than another tracking computer depending on the signature size of the target.
Thats true to a certain extent but for most intents and purposes if your not having to worry about tracking then sig differences make very little odds in damage application - the formula does not work the way people think it does.
You're missing the point: this dude comes in and says, "my 800mm ACs will have the same rad/sec tracking as my medium blasters, ergo they will apply damage just as well." The point is that he's wrong since tracking is only one determiner of hit quality. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:00:00 -
[1218] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
For a start, I'm actually very well versed in how the formula works, I've spent the last week playing with it in various spreadsheets to figure out the implications of the HAC MWD bonus (it's pretty darn awesome).
Second if you drop the tracking on the Auto-Cannons to .15 and throw a 30% sig buff on a 140 sig target you actually gain more DPS than with the .17 tracking and no sig buff.
Wasn't specifically talking about your knowledge - but yeah its not completely cancelled out until transversal hits 0 but the effect of sig is much reduced as you get closer to perfect tracking and the difference in weapon size has a much more limited effect on your quality of hit - conversely As your tracking becomes more imperfect the more the difference in weapon size becomes a factor.
Ganthrithor wrote:
You're missing the point: this dude comes in and says, "my 800mm ACs will have the same rad/sec tracking as my medium blasters, ergo they will apply damage just as well." The point is that he's wrong since tracking is only one determiner of hit quality.
Only he not (for the most part) wrong. The other factors that affect how well you hit are much reduced when your rad/sec tracking is comparable. |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:06:00 -
[1219] - Quote
Regardless of tracking etc....
MARAUDERS what do we think of these changes.... ---> GO :) |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2303
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:07:00 -
[1220] - Quote
You should give them a fuel bay and make them use fuel. Using their mini siege mode for free forever makes them virtually impossible to kill solo, or even with small numbers. |
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:10:00 -
[1221] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:You should give them a fuel bay and make them use fuel. Using their mini siege mode for free forever makes them virtually impossible to kill solo, or even with small numbers.
Scram, get under guns, wait til they get bored? :P |
Iorga Eeta
Hekatonkheires Industries
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:12:00 -
[1222] - Quote
The Spod wrote:Paladin stands to gain the most out of this. It will obsolete everything for killing EM/THERM weak rats.
The reason is that the optimal buff makes conflagration builds viable. We are looking at 1218 plain gun dps without implants at 37+25 range sieged, 27+18 unsieged. This is well enough for missions when complemented with 1k@50+30 Gamma and 875@90k scorch. This also tanks easily with just t2 repper and damage control.
Any damage buff on these would just obsolete other PVE ships for many purposes.
I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned it yet, but don't forget that Armor and Shield reppers are getting a boost in 1.1. So, these things will be getting a rep bonus on top of the coming rep bonus. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
359
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:14:00 -
[1223] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Jack Miton wrote:You should give them a fuel bay and make them use fuel. Using their mini siege mode for free forever makes them virtually impossible to kill solo, or even with small numbers. Scram, get under guns, wait til they get bored? :P
Alternatively, hit them with extremely high alpha while they're completely locked down in bastion mode. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. :\ |
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
5
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:14:00 -
[1224] - Quote
These are going to annihilate POS towers all throughout high sec. With an EWAR immunity, Dickstars won't work anymore. We're going to see roaming bands of 'em going a slaughterin'. |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
12
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:16:00 -
[1225] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:These are going to annihilate POS towers all throughout high sec. With an EWAR immunity, Dickstars won't work anymore. We're going to see roaming bands of 'em going a slaughterin'.
yeah there is that, and although it would make me sad because that would disinterest me in this ship, it is an understandable niche especially if it is a 'mini-dread', but then i think the range bonus is sort of... just not very good. |
Frothgar
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
82
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:18:00 -
[1226] - Quote
Why do the Kronos, Golem, and Vargur have the damage bonus on the Battleship Prereq, while the Paladin has it on the Marauders skill?
It seems a bit silly to have to train such a massive skill to lvl5 just to deal the same damage as an Abaddon.
Please remedy? |
Gnoshia
Section 8. Fatal Ascension
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:38:00 -
[1227] - Quote
My only complaint is the name of the module.
Where the hell did you get "Bastion" from? |
NiteNinja
Night Raven Task Force
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:40:00 -
[1228] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:NiteNinja wrote:And to add onto my previous post with the Golem and the Torpedoes vs Cruises deliemma... if you're trying to gear the Golem up for Cruise missiles (long range combat), then do something with defender missiles.
1 defender missile = 1/4 of the Golem's DPS, so the Golem will become the weaker of the 4 Marauders if you plan on using it for PVP like the original topic is about. Can't null 1/4 of the ammo on the other 3 ships that easily.
And most NPC's use defenders. More nerfage so the Golem won't be practical for PVE either... >.>
Might as well sell off my ship and go back to a Navy Raven. Missile HP bonus on Bastion maybe? Or on the Golem itself so it's more viable as a whole. Would help make up for the lack of a damage bonus on the hull too, since the other three get one along with the stock Raven.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3556070#post3556070
Yeah I mentioned that, all the other Marauders gets some kind of damage bonus, but you see nothing for missiles.
We know CCP hates missiles anyway. They're not that overpowered.
And bring back the old torpedo shockwaves and V3 them, I miss those. Torp and Cruise explosion GFX is the same. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1345
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:47:00 -
[1229] - Quote
Gnoshia wrote:My only complaint is the name of the module. Where the hell did you get "Bastion" from? it's named after Sir Sebastian Bastion III the inventor of the modern marauder |
Sturm Gewehr
The Legitimate PVP Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 01:49:00 -
[1230] - Quote
MJD bonus good.
Bastion = bad. |
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