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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lucy Hastmena
Darklights Raumschmiede
0
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Posted - 2013.08.31 07:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Because of all the small Ship buffs, Freighter and Jump freighter become really easy to gank in the High Sec. Normally just say, dont carrie that much in a Freighter or Jumpfreighter but that is not the reason for beeing ganked, its just because its so easy. The Price of a Rhea for example is around 6.5 Billions and has around 300k EHP with Jump Freighter Skill Level 5. 17 Brutix kill this Ship without any risk worth around 1 Billion. Even 25 Catalysts can destroy a Jump freighter in 0.5 Systems (around 560 DPS for 25 Seconds -> 14k+ Dmg *25 = 350k Dmg). The Price of one Catalyst is around 12 mio full fittet (t2 with dmg rigs). So you have around 300 million loss for a guranteered Jump Freighter Kill a normal Freighter has less than 200k EHP and will be killed more easier.
Additional every ******* ISBoxer user can build up his own ganking squad like nothing. This combination was seen for example in 1.0 Systems with around 20 tornados between Jita and Amarr. Yes it was an ISBoxer, he was really stupid so he tried to smack in local and every of his alts did the same at the same second.
Please give the freighter and Jump Freighter Pilots a chance to survive in High Sec. They should still be killable by suizid gankers, but it must be in a way that the costs to gank these Ships must be the same than the costs of the ganked ship itself.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3535
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
If killing freighters in highsec is so easy, why aren't more people doing it (no one has actually answered this yet). Freighters & JF's do have the ability to survive a suicide gank attempt but a good majority of the pilots would rather autopilot their giant cargohold through highsec & complain when the inevitable happens.
You claim that there is no risk for suicide gankers. This is wrong on so many levels.
Edit: Isk-tanking is a horrible idea by the way. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1623
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bring logi. Oh god. |
Lucy Hastmena
Darklights Raumschmiede
0
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
it is http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19441611 only yesterday 3 Freighters where ganked by Pizza with catalysts and they asked a lot of ransom. A thypoon was bumping all the freighters/ jump freighters and asked for ransom. Even this freighter http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276 was killed by them because it dosnt cost them anything really worthfull (sec status is for an 00 alliance not a problem and of course you can buy it easy after the last patch if you need it) |
Dave Stark
3390
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship? |
Matari Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
The value of the ship that is destroyed in no way affects the profit the gankers make, in order for a gank to be profitable the value of the cargo and modules that drop would have to be worth more than the cost of the ships used in the gank and the time that would be required to grind the security status back up for the characters.
So don't fill your freighter with shiny's/keep the value low of what you haul or bring friends.
I know how this works I have done thousands of runs between Jita and Amarr in a freighter and I have never been ganked even though I have been ship scanned many times, I dont make it worth the while. |
Lucy Hastmena
Darklights Raumschmiede
0
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship? ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you.
This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about.
Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276 |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3538
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
A jump freighter that is being bumped can jump out of the system, that is, if he wasn't AFK in the first place. You still haven't answered my question; If suicide ganking freighters is so easy & profitable, why aren't more than a few groups doing it? The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
350
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.
You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.
I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12779
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lucy Hastmena wrote:Dave Stark wrote:remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship? ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you. This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about. Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276 15 pilots is still 15 pilots, regardless of the number of players controlling them.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3538
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lucy Hastmena wrote:Dave Stark wrote:remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship? ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you. This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about. Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276
You can scout it, you can have a friend or alt web your freighter, & your giant cargohold with an engine strapped to it is the inherent tank. You can do many things to mitigate the risk of a successful suicide gank being performed, you just choose not to. You choose to be a victim. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Dave Stark
3391
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lucy Hastmena wrote:There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot Yes it is.
Lucy Hastmena wrote:And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. If you don't have more than 1 pilot, isboxer makes exactly 0 difference as it's used to control an amount of accounts/pilots >1 So, are you wrong, or are you telling me you can solo gank a freighter in high security space?
Lucy Hastmena wrote:There is absolute nothing you can do about. are you trying to be incorrect, or does it come naturally? I'm curious. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3539
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.
You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.
I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.
If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Matari Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lucy Hastmena wrote:Dave Stark wrote:remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship? ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you. This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about. Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276
If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense.
If you put 10 billion isks worth of faction shiny's in a freighter and auto pilot... well a fool and his things are quickly parted and rightly too
if you look at the 10 Bil + kills on eve kill the loses on there are normally not capital or super caps they are transport ships, where people are stupid there is an almost 13 billion isk Badger 2 that dropped nearly 8 bil in loot, people need to stop being so amazingly stupid.
It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever? |
Dave Stark
3393
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Matari Akiga wrote:It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever?
I'd invest heavily in this. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3542
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever? I'd invest heavily in this.
To be completely honest, I don't kill freighters in highsec for the profit, I do it so people will create terrible threads like this. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
129
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Matari Akiga wrote:If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense.
One might rightly question what the hold of a freighter is supposed be filled with when they're still profitable to gank loaded with trit. |
Dave Stark
3397
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever? I'd invest heavily in this. To be completely honest, I don't kill freighters in highsec for the profit, I do it so people will create terrible threads like this.
I'd still call the entertainment value of these threads a healthy profit. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12780
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.
You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.
I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink. Why do they need to be able to fit a tank? The real world equivalent of a freighter would be something like a bulk oil carrier, which like a freighter can't fit a tank, can be overcome by a smaller force (see Somalian pirates) and can have it's direction of travel affected by smaller vessels, known as tugs.
An Orca is more of a multipurpose vessel, while primarily an industrial logistics platform, unlike a freighter it can be used for multiple purposes. An Orca can sacrifice cargo space to fit a tank, a lot of Orca pilots don't bother though and go for max cargo, those Orcas are as easy if not easier to kill than a freighter.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Dave Stark
3397
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense. One might rightly question what the hold of a freighter is supposed be filled with when they're still profitable to gank carrying nothing but trit
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station. |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3543
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.
You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.
I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink. Why do they need to be able to fit a tank? The real world equivalent of a freighter would be something like a bulk oil carrier, which like a freighter can't fit a tank, can be overcome by a smaller force (see Somalian pirates) and can have it's direction of travel affected by smaller vessels, known as a tug. An Orca is more of a multipurpose vessel, while primarily an industrial logistics platform, unlike a freighter it can be used for multiple purposes. An Orca can sacrifice cargo space to fit a tank, a lot of Orca pilots don't bother though and go for max cargo, those Orcas are as easy if not easier to kill than a freighter.
A properly tanked Orca takes the same amount of T1 cats to kill as a Jump Freighter does, so the statement made previously about Orca's being able to tank better than freighters is actually wrong. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
129
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.
The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12783
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
There's a really good reason that professional hauliers such as Red Frog have a collateral limit. They don't like having massive targets painted on their freighters.
edit - I stand corrected on Orcas, but overall they're less profitable to gank, as you can't fill a properly tanked Orca with as much expensive crap. I knew I should have checked the EHP, Infinity Ziona generally doesn't have a clue, but like a moron I took it at face value
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3543
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense. One might rightly question what the hold of a freighter is supposed be filled with when they're still profitable to gank loaded with trit.
Why would you carry nothing but trit anyway-Oh nevermind highsec people. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Dave Stark
3398
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station. The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with. So basically, because people are dumb we should remove freighters from the game?
You best be trolling. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3543
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station. The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.
Station egg's & iHubs come to mind. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
350
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.
You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.
I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink. If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca. Since its already foolish to fill a freighter to capacity those foolish enough to fit expanders making them even easier to gank and then filling the expanded space with more loot would find themselves in pods very quickly.
And your real world example anyone who tries to hijack a tanker has a very real chance of being pod killed permanently. If they ad that to the game would be cool. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12783
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: And your real world example anyone who tries to hijack a tanker has a very real chance of being pod killed permanently. If they ad that to the game would be cool.
Really? it's considered bad form for civilian bulk carriers to be packing armed crewmen or guards, many ports won't let civilian vessels dock if there are armed personnel aboard.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3543
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.
You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.
I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink. If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca. Since its already foolish to fill a freighter to capacity those foolish enough to fit expanders making them even easier to gank and then filling the expanded space with more loot would find themselves in pods very quickly. And your real world example anyone who tries to hijack a tanker has a very real chance of being pod killed permanently. If they ad that to the game would be cool.
I didn't give a real world example, but you seem very sure that I infact did. Please underline my real world example. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12783
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
It's confused you with me, as a highsec pubbie I'm flattered, you should be angry
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
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