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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 18:35:00 -
[721] - Quote
If isk tanking is stupid so is warp scrambling gankers. No point on stopping someone from doing something they don't want to do. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3586
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 18:37:00 -
[722] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i see you've resulted to personal insults Insult? I was just lamenting the fact that I expected you to understand the preceding post and you completely misinterpreted it. i see you still have nothing to contribute to the discussion.
Well of course he doesn't. We wouldn't listen to his inaccurate points that made no sense at all, so he'll troll the thread until it gets locked. This is how they keep intelligent discussion at the bottom of the pile you see, that way they can start a new thread all over again with a different character in the hopes that CCP will think it's a pressing issue (despite the numbers showing otherwise). The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Dave Stark
3488
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 18:38:00 -
[723] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i see you've resulted to personal insults Insult? I was just lamenting the fact that I expected you to understand the preceding post and you completely misinterpreted it. i see you still have nothing to contribute to the discussion. Well of course he doesn't. We wouldn't listen to his inaccurate points that made no sense at all, so he'll troll the thread until it gets locked. This is how they keep intelligent discussion at the bottom of the pile you see, that way they can start a new thread all over again with a different character in the hopes that CCP will think it's a pressing issue (despite the numbers showing otherwise).
if only they were that creative when undocking their freighters. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3586
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 18:39:00 -
[724] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:If isk tanking is stupid so is warp scrambling gankers. No point on stopping someone from doing something they don't want to do.
Warp scrambling gankers, especially if they're below -5 is a perfectly valid tactic that can in many cases cause a suicide attack to fail.
Edit: Your post makes no sense, much like your previous posts. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Matari Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 18:52:00 -
[725] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:
And what will you say Infinity Ziona if I can do it for free? That's right not a single ISK spent? I will get a load on brand new characters all less than a day old in starter ships the only change would be that they have 2 civilian guns and see what we can do? would that finally prove that cost does not reflect performance of two ships with two completely unrelated roles?
When I started posting in this thread I thought people just didn't know better, now I think they are greedy and ignorant and want CCP to protect them from themselves.
You have been told how to make yourself less likely to be ganked, you have been told about the precautions you can take if you need to fill the ship.
I think this thread may have just made me become a ganker.
You can do it for free. If it costs 70 million for you and your friends to blow one up. Considering salvage you should make a profit from it even if it drops nothing. As stated earlier in this thread character is a freighter pilot I fly almost daily between Amarr, jita and some hisec-lowsec staging systems to keep a sov alliance industry running. So why am I siding with the gankers? Because if flown with due precautions it is increadibly unlikely that a freighter will get ganked or if a gank squad starts to prep for an attack that you can stop or counter the attack and get the freighter out alive. The freighters don't need to be changed there is nothing wrong with them, pilots need to change the way they fly them that is the problem here. You realise if they want to kill you, there's no precaution you can take. Scout on the gate. Gank squad somewhere else. They'll bump you with a neutral BS til the squad arrives and you're dead. You've just been lucky.
Bonused dual web ship to help me get into warp quicker, a fast high mass battleship like a mach to bump the bumpers, ships scouting ahead and if I am feeling paranoid dual logi support and a smart bombing cruiser with MWD to pop untanked dessi's.
If the gankers plan for all of that they deserve the kill mail IMHO along with whatever drops which will be a lot less normally than what other freighters are carrying.
CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.
Improvise, adapt and overcome! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3587
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:12:00 -
[726] - Quote
Matari Akiga wrote:Bonused dual web ship to help me get into warp quicker, a fast high mass battleship like a mach to bump the bumpers, ships scouting ahead and if I am feeling paranoid dual logi support and a smart bombing cruiser with MWD to pop untanked dessi's.
If the gankers plan for all of that they deserve the kill mail IMHO along with whatever drops which will be a lot less normally than what other freighters are carrying.
This guy is giving out solid advice on how to avoid being suicide ganked yet gets ignored. I'd like to point out that we have never suicide ganked a freighter that was taking such precautions. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:25:00 -
[727] - Quote
Matari Akiga wrote:Bonused dual web ship to help me get into warp quicker, a fast high mass battleship like a mach to bump the bumpers, ships scouting ahead and if I am feeling paranoid dual logi support and a smart bombing cruiser with MWD to pop untanked dessi's.
Do you think this is a fair expectation of an already boring profession with a huge amount of collateral and skill investment?
As far as I can figure, freighter income is on par with mining. Splitting mining income 8 ways sounds pretty bad.
Mallak Azaria wrote:This guy is giving out solid advice on how to avoid being suicide ganked yet gets ignored. I'd like to point out that we have never suicide ganked a freighter that was taking such precautions.
Your betters have ganked webbed freighters pretty regularly, verified KM's don't lie. |
Dave Stark
3490
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:28:00 -
[728] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:Bonused dual web ship to help me get into warp quicker, a fast high mass battleship like a mach to bump the bumpers, ships scouting ahead and if I am feeling paranoid dual logi support and a smart bombing cruiser with MWD to pop untanked dessi's. Do you think this is a fair expectation of an already boring profession with a huge amount of collateral and skill investment?
when it takes an amount of players in double figures to gank a freighter, is it really unreasonable to expect a freighter to bring less than half of that amount to reduce the chance they get ganked?
as i pointed out earlier, if you bring an equal number of t1 logi as they bring meta 0 catalysts you can almost out rep all of their dps. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3588
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:32:00 -
[729] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:Bonused dual web ship to help me get into warp quicker, a fast high mass battleship like a mach to bump the bumpers, ships scouting ahead and if I am feeling paranoid dual logi support and a smart bombing cruiser with MWD to pop untanked dessi's. Do you think this is a fair expectation of an already boring profession with a huge amount of collateral and skill investment? As far as I can figure, freighter income is on par with mining. Splitting mining income 8 ways sounds pretty bad. Mallak Azaria wrote:This guy is giving out solid advice on how to avoid being suicide ganked yet gets ignored. I'd like to point out that we have never suicide ganked a freighter that was taking such precautions. Your betters have ganked webbed freighters pretty regularly, verified KM's don't lie.
Care to link some of these killmails, or is this just another false claim like the one you made about freighters being suicide ganked by Bat Country every 20 minutes? The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:37:00 -
[730] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:when it takes an amount of players in double figures to gank a freighter, is it really unreasonable to expect a freighter to bring less than half of that amount to reduce the chance they get ganked?
Yes.
Also pretty sure you can do the gank with ~4 mid-end PCs.
Quote:as i pointed out earlier, if you bring an equal number of t1 logi as they bring meta 0 catalysts you can almost out rep all of their dps.
That sounds like a pretty terrible investment. |
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Dave Stark
3490
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:40:00 -
[731] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:when it takes an amount of players in double figures to gank a freighter, is it really unreasonable to expect a freighter to bring less than half of that amount to reduce the chance they get ganked? Yes. Also pretty sure you can do the gank with ~4 mid-end PCs. Quote:as i pointed out earlier, if you bring an equal number of t1 logi as they bring meta 0 catalysts you can almost out rep all of their dps. That sounds like a pretty terrible investment.
what type of PC you have is irrelevant. |
Ressiv
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:53:00 -
[732] - Quote
S Byerley wrote: The issue is that a 1.5m ship can do a stupid amount of dps, tipping the cost equation.
It can't .. 18 of them can ... and should.
Quote:While I won't fault you for your meticulous personal practices, I think high sec freighting is a boring enough activity already without requiring teamwork. Your complaint seems to be that it isn't boring enough tho .. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 19:59:00 -
[733] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Care to link some of these killmails, or is this just another false claim like the one you made about freighters being suicide ganked by Bat Country every 20 minutes?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18471571&nolimit |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:09:00 -
[734] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:what type of PC you have is irrelevant.
It presumably limits how many cats you can box.
Quote:also, you thinking it's unreasonable to have a fleet of half the size in order to not be a free kill is the reason why freighters shouldn't be changed. you're unwilling to put in effort to protect yourself and expect ccp to do it for you.
You expecting free kills in highsec is unreasonable.
Ressiv wrote:Quote:The issue is that a 1.5m ship can do a stupid amount of dps, tipping the cost equation. It can't .. 18 of them can ... and should.
It can? Nothing else in the game comes remotely close to 300dps/m (except presumably free starter ships if you insist on being silly) |
baltec1
Bat Country
7769
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:10:00 -
[735] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:
You expecting free kills in highsec is unreasonable.
They aren't free. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:13:00 -
[736] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:S Byerley wrote:
You expecting free kills in highsec is unreasonable.
They aren't free.
His words; not mine.
|
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:13:00 -
[737] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:S Byerley wrote:
You expecting free kills in highsec is unreasonable.
They aren't free.
I have money to lose 200 T2 fit Catalysts. I'm sure big alliances have even more. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1283
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:14:00 -
[738] - Quote
And it was so profitable, too! Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7769
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:15:00 -
[739] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:baltec1 wrote:S Byerley wrote:
You expecting free kills in highsec is unreasonable.
They aren't free. I have money to lose 200 T2 fit Catalysts. I'm sure big alliances have even more.
Still isn't free. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1283
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:17:00 -
[740] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Matari Akiga wrote:Bonused dual web ship to help me get into warp quicker, a fast high mass battleship like a mach to bump the bumpers, ships scouting ahead and if I am feeling paranoid dual logi support and a smart bombing cruiser with MWD to pop untanked dessi's.
If the gankers plan for all of that they deserve the kill mail IMHO along with whatever drops which will be a lot less normally than what other freighters are carrying.
This guy is giving out solid advice on how to avoid being suicide ganked yet gets ignored. I'd like to point out that we have never suicide ganked a freighter that was taking such precautions.
The sad thing is, he's not merely ignored in these threads; people will tell him that he's wrong.
This tells me one of two things about the freighter pilots that ignore or attempt to refute him.
1. They're all stupid.
2. They're really not that afraid of getting ganked, because it's not as common as they claim. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
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Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:18:00 -
[741] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:And it was so profitable, too!
There was ~40 billion worth of stuff in those packages. |
Dave Stark
3491
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:19:00 -
[742] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:baltec1 wrote:S Byerley wrote:
You expecting free kills in highsec is unreasonable.
They aren't free. His words; not mine.
even if it was literally a kill that cost 0 isk, the fact that you're unwilling to even attempt not to be ganked is why you deserve to be ganked. |
Dave Stark
3491
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:20:00 -
[743] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:what type of PC you have is irrelevant. It presumably limits how many cats you can box.
and that has 0 bearing on the discussion. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:23:00 -
[744] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:even if it was literally a kill that cost 0 isk, the fact that you're unwilling to even attempt not to be ganked is why you deserve to be ganked.
Pretty sure if they were making no effort there'd be a lot more freighters flying through lowsec. It's all relative and at the moment it's heavily skewed in favor of the gankers - one need not look farther than the respective incomes.
Dave Stark wrote:and that has 0 bearing on the discussion.
Sure it does; you're whining about how coordinating 30 people is difficult and should be rewarded, but you're ignoring how easily ISBoxed the task is. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1283
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:24:00 -
[745] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:And it was so profitable, too! There was ~40 billion worth of stuff in those packages.
But see, we'll have to take your word for it, since the KM says you made nothing on the deal. (I have no reason to doubt you, but since plastic wrap never lists contents on KMs, no one knows but the gankers.) It is, however, half the problem when these clowns come in here screaming about how much you make.
Then again, they probably do know, since they're the idiots putting so much value into their cargo hold. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
342
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:25:00 -
[746] - Quote
im curious as to the smallest isk value cargo item that can fully fill a charon. (for the smallest cargo value of a completely filled ship) Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
180
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:26:00 -
[747] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:It can? Nothing else in the game comes remotely close to 300dps/m (except presumably free starter ships if you insist on being silly)
A Catalyst can't actually get 300dps/m, but here's something that can get 284dps/m:
[Atron, Atron fit]
[Empty Low slot] [Empty Low slot] [Empty Low slot]
[Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot] [Empty Med slot]
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S [Empty High slot]
[Empty Rig slot] [Empty Rig slot] [Empty Rig slot] |
Dave Stark
3491
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:28:00 -
[748] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:even if it was literally a kill that cost 0 isk, the fact that you're unwilling to even attempt not to be ganked is why you deserve to be ganked. Pretty sure if they were making no effort there'd be a lot more freighters flying through lowsec. It's all relative and at the moment it's heavily skewed in favor of the gankers - one need not look farther than the respective incomes. Dave Stark wrote:and that has 0 bearing on the discussion. Sure it does; you're whining about how coordinating 30 people is difficult and should be rewarded, but you're ignoring how easily ISBoxed the task is.
i didn't whine about how hard it was to coordinate 30 people at all, good luck finding that quote. i've not made a single comment on the difficulty of doing so.
again, isboxer is completely irrelevant to the thread. pretending it's relevant is hilarious and incorrect.
this i have to hear; how is it biased in favour of the gankers? really, this is going to be grade A stand up comedy material i can feel it. |
Dave Stark
3491
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:29:00 -
[749] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:im curious as to the smallest isk value cargo item that can fully fill a charon. (for the smallest cargo value of a completely filled ship)
what's the lowest isk/m3 item in the game? probably going to be shuttles i'm guessing. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1283
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 20:30:00 -
[750] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:
Pretty sure if they were making no effort there'd be a lot more freighters flying through lowsec. It's all relative and at the moment it's heavily skewed in favor of the gankers - one need not look farther than the respective incomes.
Avoiding low sec isn't exactly 'making an effort,' ignoring that fact that freighter pilots do actually operate in low sec.
Low sec also reduces the need for gank ships from multiples to no more than two. In a successful high sec gank, all of the effort involved has been assumed by the ganker(s). Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
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