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Angeal MacNova
9th Fleet-Seraphins
81
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Posted - 2013.09.07 22:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
With the skills you have trained up to the level they are at, when you up from the cruiser to battle cruiser, you are actually making yourself weaker and not stronger. As you continue to skill up in the right areas, this will turn around. As people have said, right tool for the job but the right tool is not necessarily the right ship but also the right fitting. You want to use light missiles on frigates and destroyers. Only by increasing you missile skills enough (target navigation prediction is a good one for smaller ships) will those heavy missiles start to be more effective against smaller targets.
What's also been mentioned is the resistance and regen. These two compliment each other quite well as it becomes possible to have an unbreakable tank. You can sit there in the mission and not have to worry about killing off as many as you can before they drain your shields or before you need to warp out. Instead you'll be able to warp in, get aggro, and then go grab a coffee. |
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
8
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Posted - 2013.09.07 22:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Loved the title. Truth is, no matter what ship you were flying before, a Drake is not an upgrade. |
Trevor Dalech
CandyMan Cartel
11
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Posted - 2013.09.08 05:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
I forgot which of the millions of "rules of EVE" this was, but:
Rule # ??? : Bigger is not better!
In fact, when you're talking level two missions, the smaller the better, as you will mostly be fighting frigates. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
196
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Posted - 2013.09.08 06:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
I can only imagine the OPs skills must suck, because I can wreck Frigates with Cruise Missiles, so Heavy Missiles should be ripping them to bits. The OP should consider an active tanked Drake, as that'll allow the fitting of two TPs or two Webs to taste. The Drake is still stupidly tanky, so if you can't survive a Lvl 2 then you really need to train more. Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
196
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Posted - 2013.09.08 06:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:Rule # ??? : Bigger is not better!
In fact, when you're talking level two missions, the smaller the better, as you will mostly be fighting frigates.
There's no reason a Drake with HMs can't tear through Lvl 2s. Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
196
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Posted - 2013.09.08 06:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mathias Orsen wrote:Loved the title. Truth is, no matter what ship you were flying before, a Drake is not an upgrade.
A Drake is lovely, I used one for ages. They are still nice, even after the nerf.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
46
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Posted - 2013.09.08 08:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Read up on tanking, sig & speed tanking, hardners, use EFT, mission reports, etc etc Properly Train for tengu... For a new player, the tengu is completely worth it if you have the correct skills. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
178
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Posted - 2013.09.08 08:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Evangelina Nolen wrote:Read up on tanking, sig & speed tanking, hardners, use EFT, mission reports, etc etc Properly Train for tengu... For a new player, the tengu is completely worth it if you have the correct skills.
Come on.. why should everyone and his alt train Caldari cruiser 5 and get a freaking Tengu.. Do you seriously think he needs to invest hundreds of millions to run ~missions~ ?!
The drake is perfectly fine, you can run level 4s in one (slowly) if you fit it correctly. His only issues are his terrible fit and his lack of proper support skills.
OP just google 'passive drake' and take it from there.
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Morphisat
Millard Innovation Inc The 20 Minuters
29
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Posted - 2013.09.08 09:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
The drake is more fitted towards lvl 3 missions. You might want to stick to your caracal for Lvl 2. Also don't put shield boosters on your drake. It's supposed to passively tank. Also you might want to look at your passive shield regen skills, you need those to fly a drake properly.
If you do insist on flying a drake in a lvl 2 mission, fit a target painter and use drones on the little stuff.
PPL above have posted proper drake fits, replace the expensive Arbalast launcher with something cheaper if you can't afford those. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20096
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 09:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:His only issues are his terrible fit and his lack of proper support skills.
That's where most people's problems in the game come from, in the beginning... EVE just isn't for the impatient. Getting proper skills takes time and building working fits takes research... so yea: The ship is not an issue. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
486
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 10:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Get yourself a carrier.
Thatll show those pesky lvl 2s.
You laugh......I've actually dropped a carrier into a level 2. The are missions in null.
I had a screen shot but that hard drive went tengo uniform years ago |
Jose Black
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2013.09.08 11:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Pretty much the only level 2 mission that could beat up a half way competently fitted drake that fast would be Recon 1/3. It also has this pirates emerged from the shadows messages you mention.
That means you may have completed the mission with your cruiser before, but certainly you didn't "clear it". And that is simply because someone at your experience level can't clear it with a cruiser. Good thing is you aren't meant or required to do so. Read the instructions again and do as requested. works with both cruiser and battlecruiser.
Also giving up before considering fleeting up with someone else that would enjoy helping you both practiacally and with further advice is - sorry, my opionion - plain stupid. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1083
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Posted - 2013.09.08 11:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:
[Drake, passive Shield] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Use this fit. Look into using Heavy assaults as well.
Don't get too frustrated, I went through the same thing when I grinded up missions. I remember warping out all the time. Hell, I was running level 3's in a battleship with medium rail guns until I figured out what to do. And by the way, medium guns and heavy missiles are fine for level 3's.
A lot of times you need to manage the mission. So use drones to take out the frigs, then shoot everything else. Look for spawn triggers so you don't get overwhelmed. A drake will take more damage since it is larger, and slower, so you'll need to adapt. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
488
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 13:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Eli Atreides wrote:Ok, well, I give up.
Something definitely seems wrong. It's understandable that EVE would bump up the difficulty when I enter a lvl 2 instance with a BC instead of my Caracal, and I also understand that solo PVE is not really the focal point of EVE, but this is absurd.
I refitted several configurations based on the advice here. I was able to train a few add'tl skills as well. There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake. The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled. After refitting on my first try I thought I might survive but then:
"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!" "Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"
and the slaughter/jamming continued until I had to frantically recall drones and warp out.
I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so. Missions are not adjusted with regard to anything you bring to the mission (ships, mods, skills etc.). The "bump up" you notice is a side effect of your skills that define how efficient you can use your ship and fitting. Before you give up, you might want to try this (and no compromises please): [Drake, passive Shield] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher [empty high slot] Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I You should train Caldari Battlecruiser to 3 at the very least, better to 4, Shield Management to 4 and Shield Operation to 4 or 5 to help with this fit. This fit should be cap stable or at least close to being cap stable for you. If not you need to invest some training in your cap skills. If you have cap problems you can switch one Invuln II for a mission specific shield hardener (T2 please). You also need Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision plus the skills that give better rate of fire and more damage, or it might take a while to clear the mission. And use it together with this: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports. Look for "triggers" and "jammers" in the mission description. Save triggers for last and use your drones to kill jammers asap.
I would call that fit horrifically overtanked, and that applies for level 3s as well. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13512
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 13:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Eli Atreides wrote:Ok, well, I give up.
Something definitely seems wrong. It's understandable that EVE would bump up the difficulty when I enter a lvl 2 instance with a BC instead of my Caracal, and I also understand that solo PVE is not really the focal point of EVE, but this is absurd.
I refitted several configurations based on the advice here. I was able to train a few add'tl skills as well. There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake. The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled. After refitting on my first try I thought I might survive but then:
"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!" "Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"
and the slaughter/jamming continued until I had to frantically recall drones and warp out.
I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so. Missions are not adjusted with regard to anything you bring to the mission (ships, mods, skills etc.). The "bump up" you notice is a side effect of your skills that define how efficient you can use your ship and fitting. Before you give up, you might want to try this (and no compromises please): [Drake, passive Shield] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher [empty high slot] Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I You should train Caldari Battlecruiser to 3 at the very least, better to 4, Shield Management to 4 and Shield Operation to 4 or 5 to help with this fit. This fit should be cap stable or at least close to being cap stable for you. If not you need to invest some training in your cap skills. If you have cap problems you can switch one Invuln II for a mission specific shield hardener (T2 please). You also need Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision plus the skills that give better rate of fire and more damage, or it might take a while to clear the mission. And use it together with this: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports. Look for "triggers" and "jammers" in the mission description. Save triggers for last and use your drones to kill jammers asap. I would call that fit horrifically overtanked, and that applies for level 3s as well. It's overtanked for 4's tbh, unless you're one of those guys that sits stationary. That's outside the scope of this thread though.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Motorbit
Viriette Industrial Combined Arms Militia Villore Accords
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 13:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jose Black wrote:Pretty much the only level 2 mission that could beat up a half way competently fitted drake that fast would be Recon 1/3. It also has this pirates emerged from the shadows messages you mention.
this. not matter how hard you fail fit your drake, it just would not melt within 20s in a l2. untill is recoon indeed.
anyway, read up your missions at eve-survival, and pick the right damage type to deal and to tank against.
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Myriad Blaze
66
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 14:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Onictus wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Eli Atreides wrote:Ok, well, I give up.
Something definitely seems wrong. It's understandable that EVE would bump up the difficulty when I enter a lvl 2 instance with a BC instead of my Caracal, and I also understand that solo PVE is not really the focal point of EVE, but this is absurd.
I refitted several configurations based on the advice here. I was able to train a few add'tl skills as well. There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake. The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled. After refitting on my first try I thought I might survive but then:
"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!" "Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"
and the slaughter/jamming continued until I had to frantically recall drones and warp out.
I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so. Missions are not adjusted with regard to anything you bring to the mission (ships, mods, skills etc.). The "bump up" you notice is a side effect of your skills that define how efficient you can use your ship and fitting. Before you give up, you might want to try this (and no compromises please): [Drake, passive Shield] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher [empty high slot] Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I You should train Caldari Battlecruiser to 3 at the very least, better to 4, Shield Management to 4 and Shield Operation to 4 or 5 to help with this fit. This fit should be cap stable or at least close to being cap stable for you. If not you need to invest some training in your cap skills. If you have cap problems you can switch one Invuln II for a mission specific shield hardener (T2 please). You also need Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision plus the skills that give better rate of fire and more damage, or it might take a while to clear the mission. And use it together with this: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports. Look for "triggers" and "jammers" in the mission description. Save triggers for last and use your drones to kill jammers asap. I would call that fit horrifically overtanked, and that applies for level 3s as well. It's overtanked for 4's tbh, unless you're one of those guys that sits stationary. That's outside the scope of this thread though. Actually I used this fit (a very similar fit, to be precise) to tank Sleepers before the HML nerf (btw, that's the main reason why there are two Invuln IIs instead of a Invuln + mission specific hardener).
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13513
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 15:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Onictus wrote: I would call that fit horrifically overtanked, and that applies for level 3s as well.
It's overtanked for 4's tbh, unless you're one of those guys that sits stationary. That's outside the scope of this thread though. Actually I used this fit (a very similar fit, to be precise) to tank Sleepers before the HML nerf (btw, that's the main reason why there are two Invuln IIs instead of a Invuln + mission specific hardener). That explains much, sleepers are nasty buggers at the best of times. I used a similar fit in wormholes a couple of years ago.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
195
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ok, another problem you might be having is that you enter the mission in the drake and lock up every frig and send one launcher's missiles at each one. Then what happens is you are attacking all the trigger ships and spawning successive waves too quickly. For some reason you may not be doing this with the Caracal, maybe because of fewer launchers?
Anyway as has been said, if you are using RLML on each ship and you are fitting sufficient tank on each it should be about the same result. The level 2 missions do not adjust themselves to the ship you bring, afaik. So maybe your tactics change depending on which ship you are entering with. There is a website (can't remember the domain, but go to the missions subforum and ask there) that has walkthroughs which will list for you what the trigger ships are. Triggering all the waves of spawns at once with lower skills as you have is an explanation for your dilemma.
Good luck. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
563
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
The biggest issue here is that the drake is utterly useless. It used to be high def, long range, low damage. But people complained that it's battleship sized defense made it "too good" even though it would take a looooong time to solo level 4's compared to something like a hurricane. So they nerfed the drake. And they nerfed missiles. And the nerfed the drake some more. Now it's mid range at best, low damage, and the only way to get it's defense up is to further reduce it's damage.
Your best bet is to dump missiles in the bin, and move to gunnery. The reason being that at the moment, projectile boats are pretty good at PvE. Should they nerf those, you can move to lasers or hybrids with little additional training as they share support skills. With a missile character, if they nerf missiles, you have to basically throw your character in the bin until they get around to buffing them again. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
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Sarah McKnobbo
Imperial Strippers
18
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Posted - 2013.09.09 14:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Eli Atreides wrote: Something definitely seems wrong......There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake......The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled.....I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so.
Nothing's wrong. You need to read up on the damage/weapons mechanics. You're dealing with two 'disadvantages' of going from Cruiser to BC. Bigger guns that have a harder time of hitting small targets & a bigger, slower ship that's easier to hit.
Its a bit TL;DR but check this page out. Especially the part with the equation. It will help you understand the workings of taking & projecting damage for turrets. Then there's this for missiles.
Also, give us a bit more detail. What mission, do you have MWD fitted, etc.
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
413
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:59:00 -
[52] - Quote
stick with the caracal. use the drake for level 3's.
kite the bad guys, don't let them swarm you. fit webs or target painters to deal with the frigates more effectively.
also, quite frankly, don't use a drake. they suck |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
413
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
(t2 launchers with precisions also lets you hit those frigates a lot better) |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3377
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
Nostalgia.
Try 2X large extender and 2x invulnes
You have room for 5x drones. Use it.
Since you are using a drake in lvl 2, go with the small launchers, or better yet, those small yet higher-speed launchers. Looney fit but many would say that's the case using a drake in a lvl 2. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
158
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Battlecruiser in a level 2 missions? maybe a cruiser or a fast snipper fit destroyer? I use my arti fit gnosis in level 3's and burn to range and make the red +'s go pop. |
Lilliana Stelles
873
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
I think OP is going about this wrong.
Don't do level 2s in a level-3/4 fit drake. Fit it for level 2s.
I use a drake to grind them from time to time. It's buffer/mwd fit. Basically a mwd pvp drake without tackle and around 65k ehp. Missions hardly touch the shield and it can easily blitz at 1010ms and drone down the elite frigs. Target painter optional. Also great for lowsec if you bring ewar drones. Incarna from 2009. 3 Years later and what we have doesn't look half as good as this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A |
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