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Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
808
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:03:00 -
[31] - Quote
Solarienne wrote:We are instruments of His will, everyone one of us a sword, some of us (such as Tiberious) can offer a mouth through which our admittedly impure, unfiltered consciousness can permit but a fraction of the Master's plan to be spoken in this base forum and others like it. But we do not listen for Nation. We do not speak for Nation but to affirm our loyalty to it.
How do you think the social and political policies of Nation would change if Kuvakei were no longer in power? Let us say that he wanted to see how Nation functioned without his constant supervision, and your collective consciousness was left to its own devices.
Would you just continue to carry out whatever previous objectives Kuvakei had?
Do you think there would be systemic collapse without a unifying vision?
Would you possibly see a major shift in priorities as decisions were based on group desires/goals instead of that of an individual? Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1754
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Solarienne wrote:We are instruments of His will, everyone one of us a sword, some of us (such as Tiberious) can offer a mouth through which our admittedly impure, unfiltered consciousness can permit but a fraction of the Master's plan to be spoken in this base forum and others like it. But we do not listen for Nation. We do not speak for Nation but to affirm our loyalty to it. How do you think the social and political policies of Nation would change if Kuvakei were no longer in power? Let us say that he wanted to see how Nation functioned without his constant supervision, and your collective consciousness was left to its own devices. Would you just continue to carry out whatever previous objectives Kuvakei had? Do you think there would be systemic collapse without a unifying vision? Would you possibly see a major shift in priorities as decisions were based on group desires/goals instead of that of an individual?
Solarienne stated that this was her only input on the thread. I doubt very highly that they are going to answer any questions.
As it stands, the situation you have stated has already taken place. Nation lost the Master once before.
That didn't stop us. Or Him for that matter.
You also assume that Master Kuvakei has HIS freedom to act. This is not necessarily the case. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
1234
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 21:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
I feel that Ms. Polevhia is the only one in the nation who hasn't had her brain surgically removed and replaced with a computer, or however they do that lovely mind control business over there.
It's very telling how most TSF members chest beat with a false sense of superiority (like everyone does) yet are very unwilling to talk about why the believe they are superior.
The Empire claim God made them superior, The Federation claim our society is a light in the darkness, the Caldari claim their hard work and endurance has made them stronger, and the Republic claim that they had to struggle to succeed.
Debating with (most) Nation loyalist is like trying to issue a command to a computer that it's not programmed to run.
Hmmm... Actually, that's exactly what it's like given we are talking about the Nation. You should have Kuvakei install some better speech software. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Ninnuma
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
3
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 22:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:It's very telling how most TSF members chest beat with a false sense of superiority (like everyone does) yet are very unwilling to talk about why the believe they are superior.
Greatness functions independently of the Consensus of Lessers. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
1235
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 22:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ninnuma wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:It's very telling how most TSF members chest beat with a false sense of superiority (like everyone does) yet are very unwilling to talk about why the believe they are superior. Greatness functions independently of the Consensus of Lessers.
I wouldn't consider being confined to a bleak area of Null Security space only to serve as target practice and a source of income for capsuleers as "greatness". Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
306
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 22:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Ninnuma wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:It's very telling how most TSF members chest beat with a false sense of superiority (like everyone does) yet are very unwilling to talk about why the believe they are superior. Greatness functions independently of the Consensus of Lessers. I wouldn't consider being confined to a bleak area of Null Security space only to serve as target practice and a source of income for capsuleers as "greatness".
And we wouldn't consider that comment to be an accurate representation of the situation. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1755
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 22:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Debating with (most) Nation loyalist is like trying to issue a command to a computer that it's not programmed to run.
Hmmm... Actually, that's exactly what it's like given we are talking about the Nation. You should have Kuvakei install some better speech software.
There is a difference between being unable to speak about our motivations and not caring to do so.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no reason for you to know. Unless you join Nation, we are opposed to you, by simple fact of historical inertia and the past actions that have been visited on us. As much as I, personally, would love to keep an open mind about these things, reality dictates my actions and that of my compatriots.
You do not have our best interests at heart; That being kept in mind, this thread and other threads like it are obvious traps designed to play upon some need to be somehow 'understood' in order to draw us into a rhetorically untenable position. To find a crack in our solidarity, and try to pick at it.
This being the case, it is not in OUR best interests to respond to these threads as though they were legitimate attempts at reaching out. We know they are not. You know they are not. We would rather spend our time building our Utopia and weakening your positions in comparison.
Secondly, we have no need to be understood by outsiders. Bring your ships against us. Attempt to stop us from building our Utopia. You will not succeed, because we are not only the best way of doing things, we are the only tenable path for humanity to save itself from going over the brink. We exercise His will, as it is dictated to us, because He has seen a path through the darkness.
If, heh, I may be permitted to go poetic for a moment.
The information is out there for people to make informed decisions if they are able to track it down and digest it with an unbiased mind. Frankly, and this will come as a shock to some of you, we don't want people to understand us who aren't able to put in the time and mental effort to track it down and interpret it for themselves. That sort of person will end up doing whatever they are asked, no matter who is asking them or the methods used to coerce co-operation. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
1236
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 23:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no reason for you to know. Unless you join Nation, we are opposed to you...
Seems a bit counter-intuitive to be trying to spread the vision of the great Kuvakei while avoiding the subject of it or refusing to comment on it. People aren't always the mindless drones you want them to be. If you want to recruit more people into your new little society, then talking about it might help.
Quote:That being kept in mind, this thread and other threads like it are obvious traps designed to play upon some need to be somehow 'understood' in order to draw us into a rhetorically untenable position. To find a crack in our solidarity, and try to pick at it.
If your nation is so great you shouldn't be concerned with people criticizing it. Surely countering any skepticism and criticism of your Utopia would be easy if it was truly the perfect society you paint it to be! It's starting to look like you either doubt your beliefs and your nation, or you are simply too lazy and/or arrogant to respond properly to inquiries. Both of which do not speak very well for the Nation and your character.
Quote:This being the case, it is not in OUR best interests to respond to these threads as though they were legitimate attempts at reaching out. We know they are not. You know they are not.
While many simply want to act like trolls, to put it bluntly. There are a great many of us, including myself, who are genuinely interested in the nature of the Nation and it's capsuleer inhabitants. We probably won't agree with you after your explanation, but it might make us a little more understanding. The majority of the cluster consider you to be soulless machines with only one goal, total domination. If you want to gain more followers, or at least stop everyone from trying to eliminate you completely, at least explaining your mission in a way that doesn't involve mass abductions and lasers.
Quote:Secondly, we have no need to be understood by outsiders. Bring your ships against us. Attempt to stop us from building our Utopia. You will not succeed
I don't know, we've succeeded so far.
Quote: The information is out there for people to make informed decisions if they are able to track it down and digest it with an unbiased mind. Frankly, and this will come as a shock to some of you, we don't want people to understand us who aren't able to put in the time and mental effort to track it down and interpret it for themselves. That sort of person will end up doing whatever they are asked, no matter who is asking them or the methods used to coerce co-operation.
Actually, the knowledge we have about the nation is very limited. All we know is that your leader is crazy, you like to turn people into robots, and you want to expand your control. Everything else is a complete mystery such as daily life for non-cyber slaves, your economy, technological advancements and so on. All we know is very limited and that limited information sounds pretty bad. The fact that citizens such as yourself that can speak to us about the Nation refuse to do so doesn't make the unknown so reassuring.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
1236
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 23:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:
And we wouldn't consider that comment to be an accurate representation of the situation.
Care to enlighten me on what you would consider to be an accurate representation of the situation? Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1757
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 23:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Actually, the knowledge we have about the nation is very limited. All we know is that your leader is crazy, you like to turn people into robots, and you want to expand your control. Everything else is a complete mystery such as daily life for non-cyber slaves, your economy, technological advancements and so on. All we know is very limited and that limited information sounds pretty bad. The fact that citizens such as yourself that can speak to us about the Nation refuse to do so doesn't make the unknown so reassuring.
For the record: This is why we don't bother to talk to you with any regard to creating peace. You're too far gone for peace. |
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1757
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:
And we wouldn't consider that comment to be an accurate representation of the situation.
Care to enlighten me on what you would consider to be an accurate representation of the situation?
No. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
1236
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
For the record: This is why we don't bother to talk to you with any regard to creating peace. You're too far gone for peace.
If peace was on your agenda you would at least attempt to reason with us, even if you believed your efforts would be futile. The big four do it all the time, why can't you? The fact that your Nation has made absolutely no attempts to make peace means that peace is not your goal, no matter what you've deluded yourselves into thinking.
Stop kidnapping entire planetary populations, and maybe we won't be so determined to rid you from the cluster. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
306
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
If you wish to speak with me without outside commentary, I sugguest mail and not forum interaction. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1757
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
For the record: This is why we don't bother to talk to you with any regard to creating peace. You're too far gone for peace.
If peace was on your agenda you would at least attempt to reason with us, even if you believed your efforts would be futile. The big four do it all the time, why can't you? The fact that your Nation has made absolutely no attempts to make peace means that peace is not your goal, no matter what you've deluded yourselves into thinking. Stop kidnapping entire planetary populations, and maybe we won't be so determined to rid you from the cluster. Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:
And we wouldn't consider that comment to be an accurate representation of the situation.
Care to enlighten me on what you would consider to be an accurate representation of the situation? No. The question wasn't directed at you, but at your more negotiable and open minded colleague.
You need to learn your history, kid. Nation was leaving well enough alone until you proved we can't co-exist in YC 37. Now you're the ones whining about co-existance, or trying to pretend that you are. We aren't interested in peace on your terms because that has been proven by history to be a futile effort. The peace will be on our terms, with your empires simply too weak and fragmented to do anything about it.
We encourage you to take up your arms against us, because we will be taking up our arms against you. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
1236
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
You need to learn your history, kid. Nation was leaving well enough alone until you proved we can't co-exist in YC 37. Now you're the ones whining about co-existance, or trying to pretend that you are. We aren't interested in peace on your terms because that has been proven by history to be a futile effort. The peace will be on our terms, with your empires simply too weak and fragmented to do anything about it.
We encourage you to take up your arms against us, because we will be taking up our arms against you.
Sorry, but luring billions of people into a trap and turning them into cyber-slaves against their will doesn't really go so well with us. The fact that Mr. Kuvakei is so surprised that we didn't like it when you turned our peoples into automatons shows just how deranged that man is, or how lacking in understanding we are. I lean towards the former but you're welcome to convince me otherwise. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1757
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
You need to learn your history, kid. Nation was leaving well enough alone until you proved we can't co-exist in YC 37. Now you're the ones whining about co-existance, or trying to pretend that you are. We aren't interested in peace on your terms because that has been proven by history to be a futile effort. The peace will be on our terms, with your empires simply too weak and fragmented to do anything about it.
We encourage you to take up your arms against us, because we will be taking up our arms against you.
Sorry, but luring billions of people into a trap and turning them into cyber-slaves against their will doesn't really go so well with us. The fact that Mr. Kuvakei is so surprised that we didn't like it when you turned our peoples into automatons shows just how deranged that man is, or how lacking in understanding we are. I lean towards the former but you're welcome to convince me otherwise.
Yeah. Your history. Learn it.
We're done here. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
72
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Stop kidnapping entire planetary populations, and maybe we won't be so determined to rid you from the cluster.
To be fair to Tiberious and his colleagues in TS-F and the Shaktipat Revelators, their members aren't actively kidnapping entire planetary populations nor have they shown any inclination or capacity to do so. Even the true Nation forces have scaled these activities back in recent years.
At their worst, TS-F may have 'harvested' a few communities here and there or 'salvaged and repurposed' some survivors of space-based conflict. For the most part, they're sitting in systems within Placid content to mine and pirate, with occasional roams into neighbouring null-sec regions just to keep things interesting. This is the activity Solarienne alluded to in her posting earlier in the thread, logs of which are readily accessible through a variety of public databases (as she indicated).
TS-F is a loyalist capsuleer organisation, they're not Nation itself and they're not linked intimately with the plans of Nation or Kuvakei as a result. If they fly into an Incursion system and attempt to support Nation forces there, they are fired on by Sansha's ships like any other capsuleer. Despite this, they believe in what he stands for and promote those beliefs to anyone that will listen.
Beyond that they're really not too different from other loyalist pirate corporations.
To try and return this to the Repentence's original intention for the thread:
One of the key points many Nation loyalists put forward as a reason for their belief in Kuvakei's vision is the betterment of humanity often in the context of an emergent post-human/transhuman age that threatens humanity in some way or another. They believe that all actions undertaken by Nation's forces are justified in this context - that whatever the cost humanity will survive under Kuvakei's system.
- What other systems are there that would achieve this same end without the need for the drastic measures Nation has been responsible for?
- What is Nation's solution for those human societies who wish to keep their humanity and mortality in a future where 'there is no death in Nation' is one of its rallying cries? Do you allow them, unaltered and with all their imperfections, to live alongside or even within your utopia? Do you build a great wall to keep the rabble out hoping that they never blow it down again? Do you burn them and their genetic memory from existence out of fear that they might?
O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
1242
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 00:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote: TS-F is a loyalist capsuleer organisation, they're not Nation itself and they're not linked intimately with the plans of Nation or Kuvakei as a result. If they fly into an Incursion system and attempt to support Nation forces there, they are fired on by Sansha's ships like any other capsuleer. Despite this, they believe in what he stands for and promote those beliefs to anyone that will listen.
Fair enough. Shame I couldn't get this response from a TS-F member, though I am satisfied. Thank you for your arbitration and clearing up any misconceptions. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
280
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:And because I thought the future of Humanity was more important then any set of laws or moralities that I used to subscribe to I let go of my prejudice against Nation. "Man, when perfected, is the best of animals, but when separated from law and justice, he is the worst of all." If humanity loses law and morality, humanity is already lost. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1038
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Actually Ollie-deary, TSF has been intricately involved with quite a few Nation operations, and instrumental in the success of plenty of their plans of several years past. Feel free to check the records but you'll find numerous examples of Nation members operating with TSF over public comms, and using their fleets to coordinate attacks, etc.
I do have to give a bit of a waving of the finger to you though, TSF. I heard up and down how you weren't going to get sucked into a multi-page fake debate on this particular thread but... well here we are! Tsk Tsk!
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
307
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:And because I thought the future of Humanity was more important then any set of laws or moralities that I used to subscribe to I let go of my prejudice against Nation. "Man, when perfected, is the best of animals, but when separated from law and justice, he is the worst of all." If humanity loses law and morality, humanity is already lost.
I cling to law, just not Amarrian law. And the morality of every culture is different. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Actually Ollie-deary, TSF has been intricately involved with quite a few Nation operations, and instrumental in the success of plenty of their plans of several years past. Feel free to check the records but you'll find numerous examples of Nation members operating with TSF over public comms, and using their fleets to coordinate attacks, etc. While they've certainly participated as capsuleer loyalists in aiding Nation fleet operations (and allies of Nation) since the War of Resurgence began in YC112, my point stands that they remain just that - capsuleer loyalists to a pirate faction rather than a confirmed part of the faction itself. I believe that's usually how they themselves characterise any connection with Nation also.
What about the heart of the discussion though Silas? I'd have thought someone like you might have been able to conceive of an interesting and unique perspective on what capsuleers are to humanity - given the various heights you've reached and some of the depths you've plumbed along the way. Surely you've got some insights that suggest there's more to you than just a pallid imitation of Revan Nefaris?
O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1039
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:What about the heart of the discussion though Silas? I'd have thought someone like you might have been able to conceive of an interesting and unique perspective on what capsuleers are to humanity - given the various heights you've reached and some of the depths you've plumbed along the way. Surely you've got some insights that suggest there's more to you than just a pallid imitation of Revan Nefaris?
Don't mistake this shallow and baiting multi-page pile of offal for a 'discussion' of any sort.
And asking for someone's "interesting and unique" perspectives on a topic immediately before insulting them is usually counter-productive, neh?
Perhaps when we have a more reasonable topic on the subject started I'll participate with some thoughts.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
280
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 20:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:And because I thought the future of Humanity was more important then any set of laws or moralities that I used to subscribe to I let go of my prejudice against Nation. "Man, when perfected, is the best of animals, but when separated from law and justice, he is the worst of all." If humanity loses law and morality, humanity is already lost. I cling to law, just not Amarrian law. And the morality of every culture is different. Well, can you exlain then how how you are able to leave any set of laws or moralities behind in order to ensure the future of humanity? Didn't you say up in the original quote that only after letting go of law and morality you got past your 'prejudices' against Nation? Law serves justice and justice is only possible if there is moral authorship of actions by individuals. The morality of every culture might be different, but that doesn't say that they all aren't founded in an ultimate moral reality. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1764
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 20:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:And because I thought the future of Humanity was more important then any set of laws or moralities that I used to subscribe to I let go of my prejudice against Nation. "Man, when perfected, is the best of animals, but when separated from law and justice, he is the worst of all." If humanity loses law and morality, humanity is already lost. I cling to law, just not Amarrian law. And the morality of every culture is different. Well, can you exlain then how how you are able to leave any set of laws or moralities behind in order to ensure the future of humanity? Didn't you say up in the original quote that only after letting go of law and morality you got past your 'prejudices' against Nation? Law serves justice and justice is only possible if there is moral authorship of actions by individuals. The morality of every culture might be different, but that doesn't say that they all aren't founded in an ultimate moral reality.
Just to clarify, she didn't say she got rid of Laws and Morality. She got rid of her OLD laws and morality.
New structures are required for a new world. |
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
280
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 23:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
I don't want to nitpick but doesn't "any set of laws or moralities" imply that she got rid of morals and law altogether? If she'd have wanted to imply that she cast aside her old set, wouldn't it be rather "some set of laws and moralities"?
What she said was in essence that survival of humanity is more important than law and morality. My counter was that without law and morality humanity is lost already. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 23:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Don't mistake this shallow and baiting multi-page pile of offal for a 'discussion' of any sort.
And asking for someone's "interesting and unique" perspectives on a topic immediately before insulting them is usually counter-productive, neh?
Whether something's counter-productive or not usually depends on the goal. In this case, I proved what I'd hoped to - that if the embers are stoked in the right way there's still some fire there, which is a welcome contrast to the usual mask of superficial banality and cliched disinterest that you take such care to fashion.
You actually rose to the bait for the first time I can remember in a very long time. Good for you.
Silas Vitalia wrote:Perhaps when we have a more reasonable topic on the subject started I'll participate with some thoughts.
Whether you rise to the challenge remains to be seen.
O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:I don't want to nitpick but doesn't "any set of laws or moralities" imply that she got rid of morals and law altogether? If she'd have wanted to imply that she cast aside her old set, wouldn't it be rather "some set of laws and moralities"?
What she said was in essence that survival of humanity is more important than law and morality. My counter was that without law and morality humanity is lost already.
I'm not disagreeing with your premise any more than I'm agreeing with Ms. Polevhia's - or vice versa.
However, laws and morality are not stagnant, static things. While they might change slowly - over centuries or even millennia - they do inevitably change in response to a variety of social pressures.
How do the laws of one empire or faction hope to apply to capsuleers and clone soldiers in the current day? How will they apply or need to adapt to the possibilities of tomorrow, the next year, the next decade or the next century?
What ethical considerations and morals are essential to our concepts of humanity and which are we free to discard? O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Natalcya Katla
Naqam Shaktipat Revelators
137
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Law serves justice and justice is only possible if there is moral authorship of actions by individuals. Law serves social order. "Justice" is only valuable to the extent to which it contributes to maintain a stable society. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1039
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote: Whether something's counter-productive or not usually depends on the goal. In this case, I proved what I'd hoped to - that if the embers are stoked in the right way there's still some fire there, which is a welcome contrast to the usual mask of superficial banality and cliched disinterest that you take such care to fashion.
You actually rose to the bait for the first time I can remember in a very long time. Good for you.
Whether you rise to the challenge remains to be seen.
Neither you nor anyone in your little merry band are capable of stoking much fire in anyone, sweety.
A forum response to your statement is not quite the great fire rising/ bait taking sort of thing you seem to imagine it to be.
If you really want fire though, you and yours can find me in the Kingdom. Just use your friendly neighborhood agent locator and have a go at your earliest convenience. Bring friends, bring body bags.
Anyway, this is a TSF thread (sort of), so if you have further issues with myself make a new thread and perhaps keep this one on topic. Have a lovely evening otherwise *smile*
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
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