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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Leto Hallick
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.09.11 05:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
This has been the one visual oddity driving me nuts since I started playing. The size/brightness of the stars based on the distance travelled never seems to change (unless you warp directly to the star).
Our Sun from Neptune (~30 AU), for example, is practically a small dot in the sky.
Yet anywhere you seem to warp within a system in EVE, the star is always the same. It would add such a tremendous sense of scope/distance to warp away from a star and see it shrink to just a burning dot in the sky.
(And for that matter, where are the double binary systems and red-colored stars and brown dwarfs and other fun stuff? Screw the science I want to feel like I'm zipping through exotic solar systems of all types and colors.) |
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
123
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Posted - 2013.09.11 06:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why can you warp to 0 to the core of the sun and be bumped away at the speed of light? Why is a Titan the size of a medium sized city and yet it can't fit an extra Google super duper cpu server on it? Why do guns have fall-off in space? Why do missiles explode mid flight in space? The list goes on. |
Leto Hallick
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.09.11 06:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:The list goes on.
Well this wouldn't be on the list because this is not a science question. It appears like it's a stylistic choice but who actually prefers to feel like they've warped 500ft instead of 10 AU away from the sun? It would add so much to the experience for the stars to more dramatically (and realistically) reflect your proximity to them. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4061
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Posted - 2013.09.11 06:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
I, too, would like to fly a black ship in the black sky with the inky blackness of space glinting blackly off the hull.
That is to say that I expect the constant illumination regardless of distance from the primary is a stylistic choice intended to prevent people getting lost when they can't see their un-illuminated ship in a dark environment.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2607
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Posted - 2013.09.11 06:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
At the distance of the minor planet Pluto (5.9 billion km/3.67 billion miles | 39.5 AU) the sun is but a prick of light.
Our EvE Suns are monsters.
...the more you know.
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Trevor Dalech
CandyMan Cartel
12
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Posted - 2013.09.11 08:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Conversely, if you look at your monitor while warping to the sun, you should go blind as the sun increases in size and brightness. (Or perhaps your monitor catches on fire first...) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
818
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Posted - 2013.09.11 08:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
My guess would be, because it's a game. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
793
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Posted - 2013.09.11 09:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leto Hallick wrote: (And for that matter, where are the double binary systems and red-colored stars and brown dwarfs and other fun stuff? Screw the science I want to feel like I'm zipping through exotic solar systems of all types and colors.)
I believe there is some Eve Lore that states that it was only possible to build jump gates in systems with one star.
Also is it possible to have habitable planets in a Brown Dwarf system, etc???? Gates were only build in habitable systems.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Eugene Spencer
Appetite 4 Destruction
180
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Posted - 2013.09.11 09:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm not that fussed about the brightness of the star in relation to your distance from it. I think things would be _super dark_ if it was accurate.
However, I do like the idea of some exotic star systems. Perhaps CCP's "colonization" idea could involve previously uninhabitable star systems; binary stars, brown dwarfs, pulsars, and neutron stars? I have a specific comb for my beard. |
Terh Rumnatarn
Epidemic Inc.
24
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Posted - 2013.09.11 12:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leto Hallick wrote:This has been the one visual oddity driving me nuts since I started playing. The size/brightness of the stars based on the distance travelled never seems to change (unless you warp directly to the star).
Our Sun from Neptune (~30 AU), for example, is practically a small dot in the sky.
Yet anywhere you seem to warp within a system in EVE, the star is always the same. It would add such a tremendous sense of scope/distance to warp away from a star and see it shrink to just a burning dot in the sky.
(And for that matter, where are the double binary systems and red-colored stars and brown dwarfs and other fun stuff? Screw the science I want to feel like I'm zipping through exotic solar systems of all types and colors.)
What you hear and what you see in EVE is a simulation made by your ship`s computer. You aren't a floating entity that always stays behind your ship zooming in and out. You are inside the ship, plugged in, inside your capsule, which has no windows, floating in a liquid.
Everything you feel is a simulation. That warp tunnel, also a simulation, that sun light, also a simulation. In theory you could fly a space dildo through pinky clouds, but you have chosen to mimic the reality. Thus your board computer gives you accurate information regarding the shapes of the environment, so that you can take swift decisions. The "image" of the sun is only in your mind, augmented by a soft, so that you will always know where you are in the system.
The warp to 0 sun, is a software limitation Your are most likely warping to 1 AU.
Hope this helps with the immersion.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
43966
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Posted - 2013.09.11 12:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
..........to give overly analytical, self-serving nerds a bad day. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
8
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Posted - 2013.09.11 13:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why you can warp to a wreak but not a ship that is not in your fleet?
Accurate space scapes would be very very very boring. Just turn your monitor off for a accurate simulation. |
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ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
211
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Posted - 2013.09.11 13:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Terh Rumnatarn wrote:[quote=Leto Hallick] The warp to 0 sun, is a software limitation Your are most likely warping to 1 AU.
I think this is a bit off the mark, as 1AU is the earth-sun distance. I am thinking that maybe it is a bit closer than that.
Also there is this really old thread that clearly states that the Eve Universe is NOT a Newtonian physics universe. That is to say it is not like ours, except in appearance.
ISD Cura Ursus Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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embrel
BamBam Inc.
52
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Posted - 2013.09.11 13:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
ISD Cura Ursus wrote:Terh Rumnatarn wrote:[quote=Leto Hallick] The warp to 0 sun, is a software limitation Your are most likely warping to 1 AU.
I think this is a bit off the mark, as 1AU is the earth-sun distance. I am thinking that maybe it is a bit closer than that. Also there is t his really old thread that clearly states that the Eve Universe is NOT a Newtonian physics universe. That is to say it is not like ours, except in appearance.
would love to see how billiards works in Eve-Universe. |
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ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
211
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Posted - 2013.09.11 14:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
embrel wrote:
would love to see how billiards works in Eve-Universe.
Well, this is the linky I really wanted to find.
Nice mathematical treatise on the way kinematics work in eve online. ISD Cura Ursus Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Spy 21
Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage
194
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Posted - 2013.09.11 17:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
I've always felt Eve was too bright.
I long for the inky blackness....
S Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3... |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3385
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Posted - 2013.09.11 17:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well it would certainly add to the dark feel if, when far from the sun, things got dark and only the lights from our ships were able to illuminate things.
We'd be flying by overview at that point. But we do anyway.
The Cyclone already has a forward headlight. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4066
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Posted - 2013.09.12 03:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:I believe there is some Eve Lore that states that it was only possible to build jump gates in systems with one star.
Also is it possible to have habitable planets in a Brown Dwarf system, etc???? Gates were only build in habitable systems.
Jump gates require systems with at least two stars. Elsewhere, CCP has rationalised the binary companion away by suggesting that all jump-able systems have distant partners, thus only one star in any EVE system.
Having near partners would help illuminate systems if the game was to use more "realistic" lighting. Imagine a system with yellow and red-orange partner stars: the lighting could get quite interesting :) Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Lilliana Stelles
879
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Posted - 2013.09.12 03:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why do we not fall towards planets, considering we have zero relative velocity and are incapable of achieving the speeds necessary to orbit them? Incarna from 2009. 3 Years later and what we have doesn't look half as good as this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
24
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Posted - 2013.09.12 09:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
weve got some seriously deep misunderstandings of how visible light behaves in this thread. for a sci-fi community you all seem to know very little about science.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/03/15/bafact-math-how-bright-is-the-sun-from-pluto/#.UjGJ5saUQgs
read that and learn all about how bright the "darkness of space" is. im kinda lolling at you guys going "we couldnt see our hulls"
I fully support any effort to make EVE feel more real! |
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Mizhir
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
34482
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Posted - 2013.09.12 09:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
The graphics of the Suns in eve has always been a thing that bothered me. I hope they update it at one point. We will never forget you Saede!
I bet you dont see things like this so often in EVE |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2619
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Posted - 2013.09.18 02:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Wow. That was really arrogant and condescending.
Did you actually look at what you linked? The author isn't talking about angular (apparent) size, he's talking about a point source's apparent magnitude from Pluto. So, yes the Sun would look like a pinprick from Pluto. A magnitude -19 pinprick on average, but a pinprick nonetheless. As for seeing your hull, you would be able to see your hull, I think, at Pluto's distance (which, I might add, is only ~40AU, compare w/ some eve systems 200+AU across... ) but the light would be so low I don't think your brain could make out the colors. We're talking ballpark 80lux @ 40AU (simplified for quick/dirty/bad math). ...get out to 100AU and lemme tell ya... it's gonna get dark.
I think the level of science knowledge players have is pretty damn good. [emote:middlefinger]
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.09.18 02:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Wow. That was really arrogant and condescending. Did you actually look at what you linked? The author isn't talking about angular (apparent) size, he's talking about a point source's apparent magnitude from Pluto. So, yes the Sun would look like a pinprick from Pluto. A magnitude -19 pinprick on average, but a pinprick nonetheless. As for seeing your hull, you would be able to see your hull, I think, at Pluto's distance (which, I might add, is only ~40AU, compare w/ some eve systems 200+AU across... ) but the light would be so low I don't think your brain could make out the colors. We're talking ballpark 80lux @ 40AU (simplified for quick/dirty/bad math). ...get out to 100AU and lemme tell ya... it's gonna get dark. I think the level of science knowledge players have is pretty damn good. [emote:middlefinger]
oh this is fun. thank you.
this is a direct quote from the article i linked to my OP (mind you, the line of text was in bold in the source material as well)
-- From Pluto, the Sun is fainter than it is from Earth, but still can be 450x brighter than the full Moon.
Well, letGÇÖs compare that to how bright the full Moon looks from Earth. To us here at home, the Sun is about 400,000 times brighter than the full Moon, so even from distant, frigid Pluto, on average the Sun would look more than 250 times brighter than the full Moon does from Earth! --
now here is what you wrote in response to having read the above text:
-- "but the light would be so low I don't think your brain could make out the colors" --
quick/dirty/bad math time:
lets say you are 100+AU from the sun, it would still be something like 100 times brighter than the full moon appears to be on earth. dig it? |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
531
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Posted - 2013.09.18 02:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
You should add to your list:
Why can we warp directly through ships, stations, planets? How can anything exceed the speed of light? Why don't the planets orbit their stars? How can a tiny ship bump another ship of insanely bigger mass?
The answer to the above questions, as well as your own, is that this is a computer game. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
James Amril-Kesh
Goonswarm Federation
5784
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Posted - 2013.09.18 04:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
ISD Cura Ursus wrote:embrel wrote:
would love to see how billiards works in Eve-Universe.
Well, this is the linky I really wanted to find. Nice mathematical treatise on the way kinematics work in eve online. "[keywords: applied physics, ship motion, math, differential equations, you're a communist, elastic collisions, superposition, linear systems, dances with chimps, repost.]" My Youtube Videos Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2619
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Posted - 2013.09.18 05:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ciaphas Cyne wrote: oh this is fun. thank you.
Uh... your welcome?
Ciaphas Cyne wrote: this is a direct quote from the article i linked to my OP (mind you, the line of text was in bold in the source material as well)
From Pluto, the Sun is fainter than it is from Earth, but still can be 450x brighter than the full Moon.
Well, letGÇÖs compare that to how bright the full Moon looks from Earth. To us here at home, the Sun is about 400,000 times brighter than the full Moon, so even from distant, frigid Pluto, on average the Sun would look more than 250 times brighter than the full Moon does from Earth!
What is this hip-shot math you are using? Yes it has a much lower magnitude than even the moon, but magnitude is determined by point brightness... or brightness over a given area (watts per square meter). If the source is a point, despite being of a low magnitude the overall brightness of the area is not significantly increased. here.
Ciaphas Cyne wrote: now here is what you wrote in response to having read the above text: -- "but the light would be so low I don't think your brain could make out the colors" -- quick/dirty/bad math time:
lets say you are 100+AU from the sun, it would still be something like 100 times brighter than the full moon appears to be on earth. dig it?
No dude. Inverse square law... as a point of light low magnitude but the actual light per unit area reaching Pluto or whatever is JUST the light PER UNIT OF SQUARE AREA is arriving at 39.whatever AUs. If you think a POINT source of low magnitude is significant, you better chickity check your denominator, before you wrickity wreck your self. Yo. ..and watch them exponents.
edit: in truth there is brightness coming from the sun which is why the light in the area is around 80 lux, and that's b/c the sun isn't technically a point source. It has a small albeit significant cross section. That with the low magnitude gives it some output even at pluto's distance, but not much.
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.09.18 05:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Ciaphas Cyne wrote: oh this is fun. thank you.
Uh... your welcome? Ciaphas Cyne wrote: this is a direct quote from the article i linked to my OP (mind you, the line of text was in bold in the source material as well)
From Pluto, the Sun is fainter than it is from Earth, but still can be 450x brighter than the full Moon.
Well, letGÇÖs compare that to how bright the full Moon looks from Earth. To us here at home, the Sun is about 400,000 times brighter than the full Moon, so even from distant, frigid Pluto, on average the Sun would look more than 250 times brighter than the full Moon does from Earth!
What is this hip-shot math you are using? Yes it has a much lower magnitude than even the moon, but magnitude is determined by point brightness... or brightness over a given area (watts per square meter). If the source is a point, despite being of a low magnitude the overall brightness of the area is not significantly increased. here. Ciaphas Cyne wrote: now here is what you wrote in response to having read the above text: -- "but the light would be so low I don't think your brain could make out the colors" -- quick/dirty/bad math time:
lets say you are 100+AU from the sun, it would still be something like 100 times brighter than the full moon appears to be on earth. dig it?
No dude. Inverse square law... as a point of light low magnitude but the actual light per unit area reaching Pluto or whatever is JUST the light PER UNIT OF SQUARE AREA is arriving at 39.whatever AUs. If you think a POINT source of low magnitude is significant, you better chickity check your denominator, before you wrickity wreck your self. Yo. ..and watch them exponents. edit: in truth there is brightness coming from the sun which is why the light in the area is around 80 lux, and that's b/c the sun isn't technically a point source. It has a small albeit significant cross section. That with the low magnitude gives it some output even at pluto's distance, but not much.
dude you dont need to do math to figure this out. you said you wouldnt be able to make out color. the article clearly states otherwise, describing the light level as being similar to moonlight here on earth...which we can all see in last time i checked.
just read the article. if you dont understand it i cant help you any more than I already have. Im not a teacher.
"the nice thing about science is that whether you believe it or not, its still right"
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.09.18 06:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
frak it lets do this, i like arguing:
"Firstly: eye sensitivity (according to this: http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2426-human-eye.html and wikipedia). The least amount of light detectable by our eyes is at around 140 photos at a frequency of 587.8THz. From E=hf (Planck's relation) we have each photon carrying 3.9*10^-19 Joules of energy, hence a bundle of 140 of them would carry 5.46*10^-17 Joules. The "response rate" of the eye is about 1/10 seconds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate#Background), so we would need this bundle of photons to hit our eyes once every 0.1s for us to detect anything at all. IE we would need 5.46*10^-16 J hitting the area of our pupil per second. Now a fully dark-adapted pupil is around 9mm in diameter, which is an area of 6.36*10^-5 m^2. Soooo to get a detectable amount of light hitting our eyes, we would need at least 8.58*10^-12 Joules per second per m^2 hitting the surface of whatever planet or spaceship we happen to be on.
Now we need to calculate the light falling on Pluto from the sun. According to Wikipedia, the average flux of light from the sun at the distance of Earth is 1360 J/s/m^2. From this, we can derive the flux from the sun at pluto (the ratio of the squares of the distances to earth/pluto times the flux at earth): 1.23 J/s/m^2!
This is way more than our supposed limiting flux of 8.58*10^-12 J/s/m^2! So at Pluto we'd almost certainly be able to see things around us.
Now for 2 light years away, the same applies. 2ly = 126 482 AU, therefore flux at 2ly from sun = (1/126482)^2 * 1360 J/s/m^2 = 8.50*10^-8 J/s/m^2. Again over our limit, but only by a factor of 4 now. It might start getting a bit tough to make out anything meaningful, but theoretically it is possible." |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2619
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Posted - 2013.09.18 07:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:dude you dont need to do math to figure this out. you said you wouldnt be able to make out color. the article clearly states otherwise, describing the light level as being similar to moonlight here on earth...which we can all see in last time i checked.
just read the article. if you dont understand it i cant help you any more than I already have. Im not a teacher.
"the nice thing about science is that whether you believe it or not, its still right"
He was talking about the magnitude. The lower magnitude = incidental light received from the sun, not total light. The total light received per some area at a distance of pluto (the light you see around you sitting on Pluto mid-day) is exponentially less the further out you get. It gets dark as you get out there a ways... it's not really bright out there. Unless you're in a star cluster or something...
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
31
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Posted - 2013.09.18 07:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Ciaphas Cyne wrote:dude you dont need to do math to figure this out. you said you wouldnt be able to make out color. the article clearly states otherwise, describing the light level as being similar to moonlight here on earth...which we can all see in last time i checked.
just read the article. if you dont understand it i cant help you any more than I already have. Im not a teacher.
"the nice thing about science is that whether you believe it or not, its still right"
He was talking about the magnitude. The lower magnitude = incidental light received from the sun, not total light. The total light received per some area at a distance of pluto (the light you see around you sitting on Pluto mid-day) is exponentially less the further out you get. It gets dark as you get out there a ways... it's not really bright out there. Unless you're in a star cluster or something...
the article clearly states several times what the light level on pluto is. ive linked you the article, ive quoted here for your convenience the key sections, and ive found an interesting little bit of math that proves my point in a different way. if you cant grasp that....im sorry!
you can see stuff on pluto. get over it. |
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