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The use of alt noob corp cloakers in pvp?

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Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:00:00 - [1] Howdy folks. Just wondering about peoples views on the use of alts trained as covert ops pilots and situated in noob corps that cant be war decced.. I raise this because of our current wars we have been fighting and the continuous use of cloaker alts to set people up by those we are fighting. Now I have no objection to covert ops being used for how they were designed, nor being set up every now and then by a noob corp alt one. But in every single engagement nearly for several weeks our pilots have been set up by these 2 pilots in noob corp over and over... its has started to get somewhat annoying being and random ranges from gates and having fleets warp to you and your mates over and over within 5km.. The worst i saw was when we had 5 ships around a gate and one pilot was off at his optimal 35 km off and 3 ships fitted for closerange warp in kill and warp out before we could get one locked down. This the occured again withing 2 minutes to someone else on the outside rank, however we were more ready and took down one of their ships. This has now happened more times than I care to count with fleets using these alt cloakers to warp to, the novelty wore off some time ago. Im not asking for them to stop using cloakers or anything, but do they not have the balls to put these alts into their corps and fight like men? The cloakers are undoubetly decent pilots as its rare for us to glimpse them, but none the less.. Opinions? ps: and yes I have lost a ship to these guys but due to my own stupidity and no I am not bitter about my loss ;)
Ayla Vanir	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:12:00 - [2] Edited by: Ayla Vanir on 11/01/2006 14:15:37 If the cloaking pilots weren't in an NPC corp, how would the situation change? [Edited to clarify: Reason I'm asking to help sift out the different issues you listed out, to try to simplify things. Escrow Market Revamp
Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:19:00 - [3] Because a war target uncloaking in 0.5 space is somewhat different than a noob corp cloaker uncloaking in 0.5 as far as shooting and concord are concerned!
SinBin	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:23:00 - [4] Edited by: SinBin on 11/01/2006 14:24:48 Originally by: Captain Merkin Because a war target uncloaking in 0.5 space is somewhat different than a noob corp cloaker uncloaking in 0.5 as far as shooting and concord are concerned! To warp to this alt he must be in gang so is a valid target, the guy 34km off gate could have used any old alt for his location then warp to the gate on a line. Using my alt to scan ships setups is even worse hehe but its all fair & the price of empire wars. Alts locking in combat is maybe a bit lame but realy thats back to ccp for target cycling since exodus. _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
Kahn Moquil	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:25:00 - [5] Edited by: Kahn Moquil on 11/01/2006 14:25:17 tbh, it doesn't really matter what corp they're in, you're not going to catch a covops pilot anyway (unless you're lucky and they screw up). The same argument is valid though if you ask why not just have the covops pilots in the actual warring corp. My guess is that these covops pilots are also trained in industry, and they like to roam around empire with nothing to worry about when they're not helping their mains. Just remember, if they're being used for warp ins, they'll be ganged with your war targets, which allows you to shoot them if you can see them. It's just too bad that ccp never got round to making it possible to see if someone is a valid target to you for being ganged with a warring corporation. So it's still a shot in the dark, either you kill them and get away with it, or you kill them and get payed a visit by concord.
Quanteeri	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:28:00 - [6] Edited by: Quanteeri on 11/01/2006 14:28:44 Quote: tbh, it doesn't really matter what corp they're in, you're not going to catch a covops pilot anyway (unless you're lucky and they screw up). The same argument is valid though if you ask why not just have the covops pilots in the actual warring corp. No but you could pop his ass in his hauler a few days later. Noob corps are for *****s! CCP has even knows it. They've added the word BIGSHOT to the URL of my avatar.
SinBin	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:30:00 - [7] Here 1 other thing why was this guy sitting 34km off the gate alone ? with enermy in system ?. why was he also not huging the gate or alined to warp ? _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
moghiden	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:31:00 - [8] this is another excuse on how NOOB corps are abuused in reality no one over a month old should be allowed to remain in a noob corp as it leaves eve open to too much abuse with no hope of retribution
Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:31:00 - [9] They dont need to REMAIN in the gang however, they can be ganged at last minute and then warped to and kicked whilst in warp ;) Yes agreed it is difficult to get a lock on them indeed, but there is a difference when you do get a lock on them but cant shoot or loose your ship to concord. I agree that it makes little difference in certain circumstances to the game if they are war target or not, especially in 0.0 space. But in 0.1 and above thats where the issue is with me. Alts are a common thing but if your going to continue to use them over and over it does get a wee bit lame when you have the risk of sentry and concord retailation. Im a covert ops pilot myself (on occasions) but if im fighting I use my main and not someone protected by game rules. Perhaps an icon showing them as war target if they are ganged would be appropriate?
dantes inferno	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:32:00 - [10] im moghiden btw ^^ _____ "When mothers warned their children that the monster would get them, that monster was me. I was the nightmare that kept
Greavus	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:32:00 - [11] Yes, dont forget, for the corp to warp to the covert, the covert is going to be in the gang and therefore is a war target. Try setting your ships up so that you are all at optimal range to each other, if 1 guy gets warped apon, there is somebody there who has perfect range to shoot. Just an idea for tactics Greavus
Kahn Moquil	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Captain Merkin Perhaps an icon showing them as war target if they are ganged would be appropriate? That, and making it so that you can't leave a gang within 5 minutes after you joined it would solve a lot of noob corp characters abuse in empire wars.
Greavus	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Kahn Moquil Originally by: Captain Merkin Perhaps an icon showing them as war target if they are ganged would be appropriate? That, and making it so that you can't leave a gang within 5 minutes after you joined it would solve a lot of noob corp characters abuse in empire wars. /signed
Sanaen Eydanwadh	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:40:00 - [14] Merkin, since you're asking for opinions: yes, it's lame... And since these are probably the usual industrial/ haulers/ spying/ forum ranting/ occasionnally covops alts, they are my purest definition for lameness. "consequences?-who-cares?" - characters. Gutless pussies... But, "serious" people will tell you that it's all fair and nice.
Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:46:00 - [15] Originally by: SinBin Here 1 other thing why was this guy sitting 34km off the gate alone ? with enermy in system ?. why was he also not huging the gate or alined to warp ? He was setting up to his optimal to the gate as were we all, hostiles not in system at the time. And it only took them seconds to enter and be on us, however had he been aligned it may have been a different matter. The same trick didnt work twice once expected. Just the one neutral who I had not seen before at that time yet who has become a name we keep an eye out for.
Starbuck	Posted - 2006.01.11 15:11:00 - [16] This is the main reason I like 0.0 over empire space. In empire space there are just too many names in local. Out in 0.0 I know who the enemy is. --------------------------------------------------- Have Rail's. Will travel.
Marcus Tedric	Posted - 2006.01.11 15:41:00 - [17] Better answer - One person = 1 x Avatar. Buying isk from e-Bay with real money for an in-game advantage is against the EULA; so why isn't running extra avatars? I know extra accounts is more money to CCP, but both the above have the same effect.
Ghey Iislandur	Posted - 2006.01.11 16:15:00 - [18] Originally by: moghiden this is another excuse on how NOOB corps are abuused in reality no one over a month old should be allowed to remain in a noob corp as it leaves eve open to too much abuse with no hope of retribution Awwwww. Cookie? ______________________________________________ Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family.
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.01.11 16:16:00 - [19] Beter yet, what you are doing in 0.5?
Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.01.11 16:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Scalor Valentis Beter yet, what you are doing in 0.5? congratulations in order to our daft question of the week award winner.. My current home system is 0.3, there are o.4's 1 jump from it, and 0.5 2 jumps.. no im not going to just sit in 0.0 sec all day when there are such a nice variety of places to pop people :) When looking for targets we often venture a few jumps out of home
Ghey Iislandur	Posted - 2006.01.11 16:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Captain Merkin Originally by: Scalor Valentis Beter yet, what you are doing in 0.5? congratulations in order to our daft question of the week award winner.. My current home system is 0.3, there are o.4's 1 jump from it, and 0.5 2 jumps.. no im not going to just sit in 0.0 sec all day when there are such a nice variety of places to pop people :) When looking for targets we often venture a few jumps out of home Translation: I prefer to shoot people in systems where they will have a security status penalty if they shoot back. And since empire alts traveling through 0.1-0.4 need to get to empire to conduct business, the probability of me getting shot in return, is almost zero. ______________________________________________ Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family.
Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.01.11 16:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Ghey Iislandur Originally by: Captain Merkin Originally by: Scalor Valentis Beter yet, what you are doing in 0.5? congratulations in order to our daft question of the week award winner.. My current home system is 0.3, there are o.4's 1 jump from it, and 0.5 2 jumps.. no im not going to just sit in 0.0 sec all day when there are such a nice variety of places to pop people :) When looking for targets we often venture a few jumps out of home Translation: I prefer to shoot people in systems where they will have a security status penalty if they shoot back. And since empire alts traveling through 0.1-0.4 need to get to empire to conduct business, the probability of me getting shot in return, is almost zero. that makes even less sense than before.. if I shoot people I take sec damage not them :) if they are war targets then neither take sec damage. If they shoot me they take sec hit, sentry gives them shield damage, i shoot them no loss to me. perhaps your point eludes me and rather you meant the reverse of what your fingers typed. Now this has detracted from the original aim of the thread into useless gibberish. Why does hunting wartargets in empire rather than sitting on a gate in 0.0 that they hardly use mean we are trying to avoid sec hits (assuming your brain was not connected to your hands when you typed your previous statement)? Now this thread is about noob corp cloakers and opinions of how respectful people think it is to continuously use this tactic.
Ghey Iislandur	Posted - 2006.01.11 17:00:00 - [23] Edited by: Ghey Iislandur on 11/01/2006 17:03:06 Actually it makes perfect sense if you're a pirate and don't need to worry about your sec status as much. 0.0 alliances will probably not be interested in coming to low sec to hunt you, and empire based characters have little reason to want a sec hit. Um yeah. It makes perfect sense. I've see it all the time. A better question might be if you want pvp, why are you hanging out in low sec? 0.0 is where the action is. ______________________________________________ Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family.
SinBin	Posted - 2006.01.11 17:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Captain Merkin Originally by: SinBin Here 1 other thing why was this guy sitting 34km off the gate alone ? with enermy in system ?. why was he also not huging the gate or alined to warp ? He was setting up to his optimal to the gate as were we all, hostiles not in system at the time. And it only took them seconds to enter and be on us, however had he been aligned it may have been a different matter. The same trick didnt work twice once expected. Just the one neutral who I had not seen before at that time yet who has become a name we keep an eye out for. Good man, im very anti alt in general & my alt is in his own corp also. I like the cant go back in noob corps & get booted after 1 or 2 mounth to a secound tier noob corp that can be war decked or is always shootable but there still worm round it jumping corps ect. Using alts on forums I think is the most funny/lamest thing, its a game even if you dont have balls you can pretend you have ?. _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
Ghey Iislandur	Posted - 2006.01.11 17:40:00 - [25] Would you prefer I post with my main, who is also in a noob corp? ______________________________________________ Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family.
phillip duncan	Posted - 2006.01.11 17:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Marcus Tedric Better answer - One person = 1 x Avatar. Buying isk from e-Bay with real money for an in-game advantage is against the EULA; so why isn't running extra avatars? I know extra accounts is more money to CCP, but both the above have the same effect. Have you every tried to get another player to haul ore for several hours when you are in a small corp ? Perhaps another solution NPC corp = no tech2 allowed. If they that the rewards of tech2 they have to take the risks as well.
Garreck	Posted - 2006.01.11 17:45:00 - [27] Heh...yeah, I suppose alts in cov ops can be considered "lame." Fortunately, it takes long enough to train up cov ops that once you figure out who the alts are (I'm assuming you have, since you've come forth with the complaint) you can act appropriately when you see them in local. Don't leave battleships exposed at range. Always be aligned for warp or within jump range of a gate. Any sort of behavior you would have if you're expecting a gank fleet to come in on you at any moment. Originally by: Ghey Iislandur A better question might be if you want pvp, why are you hanging out in low sec? 0.0 is where the action is. Heh. Incorrect. 0.0 is where 50 on 50 fleet battles occur. Some folks prefer a more tactical scenario than "warp in at 80km, shoot primary and secondary, warp out when you're under fire"...and this occurs in empire space or in the areas of 0.0 close to empire (running battles with pirates, small territorial disputes, roleplay wars, etc.) Garreck Aku. Soku. Zan.
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.01.11 17:56:00 - [28] (I didn't read this whole thread, so if this has already been said, just consider it a "/signed" post.) Covert Ops ships have only one purpose: Scouting for fleets. They have ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE other than that. Therefore, CCP could ban NPC corp characters from using Covert Ops ships (not Stealth Bombers) without hurting any legitimate freelancer/loner players. If you want to scout for your fleet, you have to at least be in a player corp to do it. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Ghey Iislandur	Posted - 2006.01.11 19:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari (I didn't read this whole thread, so if this has already been said, just consider it a "/signed" post.) Covert Ops ships have only one purpose: Scouting for fleets. They have ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE other than that. Therefore, CCP could ban NPC corp characters from using Covert Ops ships (not Stealth Bombers) without hurting any legitimate freelancer/loner players. If you want to scout for your fleet, you have to at least be in a player corp to do it. Once again, someone talking out a side of their arse they clearly know nothing about. I have used my covert ops for two main purposes: 1) When I was in an alliance I used it to help provide a living bookmark to our pvpers so they could kill. 2) Other than that I have used it mainly for moving valuable cargo back and forth to empire (albeit damn slow) and avoid the continual asshats like yourself trolling for easy hauler kills. Now that my main is no longer in an alliance (or corp for that matter) his main purpose for using it is to visit with his level 4 R&D agent, so conveniently shoved into some alliance's "claimed" territory. There are many uses for covert ops. Providing intel is only one. And you may not like it, in fact you may loathe it, but when CCP takes out gate ganking and the purposed need for unsafe travel, you can have my covert ops. Don't like it? Play another game. You want them to ban NPC from covert ops but not stealth bombers? LOL! I think we know what side of the equation you're on my friend. ______________________________________________ Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.01.11 19:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Covert Ops ships have only one purpose: Scouting for fleets. Wrong. I've never flown in a fleet or scouted for one in my whole life, and a cov ops ship is vital to the way I operate. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."

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