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DerShodan Hernadi
The Guardian Knights Lost Obsession
0
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Posted - 2013.09.18 11:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
In comparison to Proteus or Tengu the Loki really lacks dps. Hell, the Proteus reaches 950 dps with Rails and still an aweseom Tank.
My suggestion is to add another small bonus to the Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array, increasing Turret by about 100 with perfect skills. Something like "Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% medium Projectile Turret damage per level". |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
158
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Posted - 2013.09.18 12:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree, I remember skilling for loki long time ago only to learn that it was just a good tank long webs boat.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
326
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Posted - 2013.09.18 12:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its possible to get above 750dps in several different ways (though none are very elegant) can't post fits atm as on my tablet. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1525
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Posted - 2013.09.18 13:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
DerShodan Hernadi wrote:Hell, the Proteus reaches 950 dps with Rails and still an awesome Tank. Total Bullshit. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
188
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Posted - 2013.09.18 13:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:DerShodan Hernadi wrote:Hell, the Proteus reaches 950 dps with Rails and still an awesome Tank. Total Bullshit. i would assume he meant blaster |
DerShodan Hernadi
The Guardian Knights Lost Obsession
0
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Posted - 2013.09.18 13:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:DerShodan Hernadi wrote:Hell, the Proteus reaches 950 dps with Rails and still an awesome Tank. Total Bullshit.
Is that so? EFT Screenshot
In comparison to that my Loki with the same skills and respective implants reaches a maximum of 700 dps with 1.65 +17 range. Please note: With Fed Navy antimatter the range is 18 + 23 for the Proteus. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
326
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Posted - 2013.09.18 13:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Urgh quite a few things less than optimal with that fit - the faction cap recharger isn't needed as it only has lower fittings over the T2 and your not short on CPU and you have the fittings spare for a T2 large capacitor battery which in the case of that fit gives a higher cap recharge rate and a much longer time til your cap runs out. |
DerShodan Hernadi
The Guardian Knights Lost Obsession
0
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Posted - 2013.09.18 13:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Urgh quite a few things less than optimal with that fit - the faction cap recharger isn't needed as it only has lower fittings over the T2 and your not short on CPU and you have the fittings spare for a T2 large capacitor battery which in the case of that fit gives a higher cap recharge rate and a much longer time til your cap runs out.
EDIT: None the less that has some pretty decent dps and damage projection that the loki probably isn't in the same class as with the best possible fit.
It was never my intention to discuss fittings here. Please return to the topic, if it's reasonable to request Loki dps increase. Feel free however, to provide a fit that reaches or surpasses 750 dps with faction ammo (hail is really not an option most of the time) if you really have one. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
326
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Posted - 2013.09.18 13:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Assuming your intention is tanking em/thermal heavy NPCs then its possible to transplant that fit to a loki with arty @ 755dps or ACs with 935dps.
EDIT: With faction ammo 848dps
[Loki, AC Test 1] Damage Control II Corpus A-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner Republic Fleet Target Painter Cap Recharger II Medium Capacitor Battery II
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II Medium Anti-EM Pump I Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Hobgoblin II x5
I'm not saying this is a good fit or one any one should use its literally a quick dirty transplanting the prot fit to the loki with the the assumption its main use it em/thermal tanking as per your screenshot. (Add in the gunnery implants). |
Schmata Bastanold
Czerka. WHY so Seri0Us
929
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Posted - 2013.09.18 13:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
No point, no neut, no ehp, bling, seems like EFT warrioring for PVE. Hardly a reason to buff other t3s damage.
Probably I can make a rifter sporting 400dps but it doesn't mean slasher needs to be buffed. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
283
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Posted - 2013.09.18 14:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
The last thing any T3 needs is a buff, be content with well above average cruiser dps and your battleship size tank. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
96
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Posted - 2013.09.18 14:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Samillian wrote:The last thing any T3 needs is a buff, be content with well above average cruiser dps and your battleship size tank.
Loki doesnt have a BS sized tank it has no sub bonus to HP or Local reps.
The Loki doesnt really need a DPS buff projectile ships in general have low DPS compared to Hybrids with Blasters that make sense although it is kinda silly a rail proteus can out dps a AC Loki. |
DerShodan Hernadi
The Guardian Knights Lost Obsession
0
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Posted - 2013.09.18 14:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
[Loki, AC Test 1] Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer True Sansha Reactor Control Unit
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II [empty med slot]
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Hobgoblin II x5
^ would be possible if CCP added +1 Turret to the Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix.
That would be 848 dps with working Tank. And thanks, Rroff for the suggestion.
Dear CCP, please do that |
David Kir
Tailender
223
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Posted - 2013.09.18 15:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have nothing to say about Loki DPS, but it is the only T3 that can deliver a nearly 4k alpha strike without any damage mods, while also sporting a fairly tough tank, a very small sig and a couple extended webs, if needed. All of this unlinked and without implants. Give it Slaves and/or Eos/Astarte links and you've got yourself the best AHAC, as well as the ultimate alpha ship.
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Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3420
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Posted - 2013.09.18 16:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
DerShodan Hernadi wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:DerShodan Hernadi wrote:Hell, the Proteus reaches 950 dps with Rails and still an awesome Tank. Total Bullshit. Is that so? EFT ScreenshotIn comparison to that my Loki with the same skills and respective implants reaches a maximum of 700 dps with 1.65 +17 range. Please note: With Fed Navy antimatter the range is 18 + 23 for the Proteus.
Your dps includes medium drones, and you disregard the fact that pretty much nothing of that rail EFT damage actually lands anywhere near a target that is not a structure with that fit.
Furthermore, PVE fits aren't eligible for balancing discussions.
. |
David Kir
Tailender
223
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Posted - 2013.09.18 16:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
DerShodan Hernadi wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:DerShodan Hernadi wrote:Hell, the Proteus reaches 950 dps with Rails and still an awesome Tank. Total Bullshit. Is that so? EFT ScreenshotIn comparison to that my Loki with the same skills and respective implants reaches a maximum of 700 dps with 1.65 +17 range. Please note: With Fed Navy antimatter the range is 18 + 23 for the Proteus.
Oh, look, a PVE fit.
Gee, I wonder how much of that DPS can be d-type tuned? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1233
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Posted - 2013.09.18 17:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why are you talking about a Loki buff? CCP reads this thread as a Proteus nerf required.
Bottom line, though it way out on the "rebalance" horizon, (according to multiple dev statements), rest assured that T3's are getting decimated in capabilities.
The dev's are operating under the horribly mistaken belief that the T3 should be a jack of all trades, master of none. That means that they will compare the performance of T3's, to the T2, Navy, and even T1 variations, and nerf the tank and DPS of the T3's so they are less than any specialized variation of the T1, Navy, or T2 hull.
So no T3 will be able to out-DPS a T2 or T1 equivalent ship, and likely won't be able to out-tank them either.
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
660
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Posted - 2013.09.18 17:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Autocannon setups got pretty hosed by the tracking enhancer nerf-- it used to be the case that the sub-par damage on ACs was made up for by their generous falloff ranges. Post-nerf, they kind of struggle to do useful quantities of damage at their intended ranges.
That said, at least the nerf didn't totally ruin things like Vagabonds in the same way that they utterly obliterated Null-based, medium blaster kiting setups. Those are now utterly useless.
Back on topic, I think medium autocannons in general could use ~10% more damage. Regardless of what you put them on, their damage application is pretty mediocre-- anything using medium pulse lasers will absolutely wreck an autocannon platform in terms of damage applied outside ~10km ranges. Another alternative would be buffing their base optimal range and/or falloff. Anything to increase their mid-range damage projection. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
326
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Posted - 2013.09.18 18:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't think autocannons are too bad damage wise I would kind of like to mix hail up a bit though - reduce the tracking penalty a bit, increase the base damage (by about 15%) but decrease the rate of fire by about the same % to even it out (not sure if ammo can affect turrets in that way as is) and add a thermal component to the damage that increases the base damage by 5%. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
342
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Posted - 2013.09.18 20:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
There is not a single tech 3 that needs buffing. Not one. They are all OP. They all need a huge PG nerf. This would take care of the ridiculous EHP by removing the ability to fit 2-3 over-sized HP modules along with the highest dps T2 weapons available on a medium ship.
They were supposed to be versatile and a bit of a wildcard. Not the OMFGWTFBBQSOLOPWN-mobiles that they currently are. Free Ripley Weaver! |
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
326
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Posted - 2013.09.18 20:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
T3s are fine (mostly) infact personally I'd find the game pretty dull without them, t1 and 2 ships are fine and all but a bit run of the mill. I think people vastly under-estimate the importance of this aspect of them. |
Zakeus Djinn
Who Called In The Fleet
4
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Posted - 2013.09.19 00:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tech 3 ships need some reduced stats, but they also need some better specializations. Tech 1 is sort of general purpose ships that don't have as clearly defined a role as tech 2. Tech 2 is highly specialized, getting specific abilities and specializations, like covert cloaks or secondary EWAR bonuses. Tech 3 should be able to create its own role by choosing between various t2 specializations and combining them. Well balanced subsystems that bring a part of each t2 specialization to the completed hull would allow T3 to be as strong or stronger than t2 without simply having more ehp or dps, and remain balanced. |
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