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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I found this article about how Diablo 3's Auction House is being shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay. Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.
Maybe I'm under-informed... dunno. Perhaps. What are your thoughts?
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/no-money-no-problems-blizzard-axes-diablo-3-auction-house-4B11192195[/url] |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
181
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
They probably won't go down that path.
If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:They probably won't go down that path.
If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game.
What about Aurum? I have also heard rumors of Eve moving to a free-to-play model with microtransactions becoming the norm. I agree with you though - I think this would kill a part Eve Online's soul ... assuming she has one, what a heartless bi-...err, lady she can be |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21028
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Using MT for game relevant stuff (pay2win) is bad... and will, hopefully, never happen in EVE... but MT for vanity items is ok, I guess... as long as it's reasonably priced. D3 was, essentially, p2w, since you could buy items for real money on the AH... they only got away with it for so long because there is no real PvP in the game.
Good the AH goes, though... even if it, most likely, will not save the game. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
78
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
I play EVE BECAUSE there is no microtransaction. I want to pay my 15Gé¼ every months and be equal with the other subscribers. "Greed is good" = immediat unsub. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 10:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Using MT for game relevant stuff (pay2win) is bad... and will, hopefully, never happen in EVE... but MT for vanity items is ok, I guess... as long as it's reasonably priced. D3 was, essentially, p2w, since you could buy items for real money on the AH... they only got away with it for so long because there is no real PvP in the game.
Good the AH goes, though... even if it, most likely, will not save the game.
Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative?
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Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1590
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
MT isn't the end of the world, PROVIDED THAT the MT stuffs stay away from gold ammo/ships/etc ... or they're gimped in some manner.
In Dust, CCP kinda went the "gimped" route. IIRC (well, during beta anyway -- haven't really had time to check it out because RL) you had "normal" dropsuits at skill levels 1/3/5, and the suits happened to be meta 1/3/5 (IIRC). If you didn't want to wait to get SP for the next level in that skill, you could buy meta 2/4 suits for AUR (at the same skill reqs for a meta 1/3 ISK-suit). So, yeah, at the same level, a MT person could get a better suit ... but the person staying with ISK/skills would (eventually) come out on top.
In EVE, I would rather see CCP leave it to vanity items, or items that could be gotten elsewhere, such as LP store items. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21028
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 10:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative? There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak.
Other then that, it's purely coop... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
219
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Meanwhile Mechwarrior Online, Star Trek Online and many many others make probably millions out of vanity items and even pay to win. Key difference of course is that these games are technically free to play. World of Warcraft also probably makes additional few million from server transfers, name changes and vanity items.
So what is the lesson we're supposed to be learning here?
Eve players will never gulp down "gold ammo" - neither should they, I'm against pay2win as well - but a properly implemented vanity item shop would be good for eve rather than bad. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:MT isn't the end of the world, PROVIDED THAT the MT stuffs stay away from gold ammo/ships/etc ... or they're gimped in some manner.
In Dust, CCP kinda went the "gimped" route. IIRC (well, during beta anyway -- haven't really had time to check it out because RL) you had "normal" dropsuits at skill levels 1/3/5, and the suits happened to be meta 1/3/5 (IIRC). If you didn't want to wait to get SP for the next level in that skill, you could buy meta 2/4 suits for AUR (at the same skill reqs for a meta 1/3 ISK-suit). So, yeah, at the same level, a MT person could get a better suit ... but the person staying with ISK/skills would (eventually) come out on top.
In EVE, I would rather see CCP leave it to vanity items, or items that could be gotten elsewhere, such as LP store items.
What about combining gameplay with MT to leap-frog the competition in pursuit of those 1337'er items? Slippery slopes, and stuff... |
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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Meanwhile Mechwarrior Online, Star Trek Online and many many others make probably millions out of vanity items and even pay to win. Key difference of course is that these games are technically free to play. World of Warcraft also probably makes additional few million from server transfers, name changes and vanity items.
So what is the lesson we're supposed to be learning here?
I'm not sure those games have player-driven economies as intricately woven into gameplay as Eve Online does - I've never played another MMO [on PC] for more than 5m.
I think the implied lesson is don't' break it if it doesn't need to be fixed... or something :D |
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
51
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
This article shows lots of signs that Bizzard didn't know what they were doing when they created the auction house in D3. It's incredibly difficult to create and balance a virtual economy - you need a good economist plus your own fair share of luck. This article makes it sound like Blizz had neither.
Then there's this:
Quote:Blizzard will shut down the auction house entirely come March 18, 2014. If it's such a horrendous mess, why are they waiting half a year to phase it out? It's just . . . odd.
Not taking a stand on microtransactions one way or the other - just suggesting that perhaps Blizzard perhaps creates better Orc battles than Auction Houses. There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance. |
Jim Era
7539
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
If only CCP would release WiS then just imagine....no need to p2w at all, just keep the monthly sub and vanity items...but implement p2becool...I would pay $20 for a cat to follow me around in station...and a little rc car...and cigars |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.09.20 11:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:If only CCP would release WiS then just imagine....no need to p2w at all, just keep the monthly sub and vanity items...but implement p2becool...I would pay $20 for a cat to follow me around in station...and a little rc car...and cigars
Perhaps we could get some real-PvP in a bar, eh?
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March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
757
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Posted - 2013.09.20 11:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
is there older rumors we can discuss? MT is already discussed and boring. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:is there older rumors we can discuss? MT is already discussed and boring.
Well, sir, your boring post is appreciated either way. o/ |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative? There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak. Other then that, it's purely coop...
It's not 'purely' coop. You can play solo and I'd wager that the vast majority of users do (I do, when I play it.) This was the core of the reason for outrage over the online-only requirement for the game. However, the online requirement was put in to put a stop to the rampant hacking and duping that was prevalent in Diablo 2 -- so I personally was not among the ones who had a problem with having to be online to play.
. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative? There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak. Other then that, it's purely coop... It's not 'purely' coop. You can play solo and I'd wager that the vast majority of users do (I do, when I play it.) This was the core of the reason for outrage over the online-only requirement for the game. However, the online requirement was put in to put a stop to the rampant hacking and duping that was prevalent in Diablo 2 -- so I personally was not among the ones who had a problem with having to be online to play.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm generally ignorant of most things, especially PC-based games. Eve Online is the first PC exclusive that I've ever played. Eve is also the best game I've ever played. Too bad I'm so bad at the best game I've ever played :D |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative? There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak. Other then that, it's purely coop... It's not 'purely' coop. You can play solo and I'd wager that the vast majority of users do (I do, when I play it.) This was the core of the reason for outrage over the online-only requirement for the game. However, the online requirement was put in to put a stop to the rampant hacking and duping that was prevalent in Diablo 2 -- so I personally was not among the ones who had a problem with having to be online to play. Thanks for the explanation. I'm generally ignorant of most things, especially PC-based games. Eve Online is the first PC exclusive that I've ever played. Eve is also the best game I've ever played. Too bad I'm so bad at the best game I've ever played :D
Oh, I'm bad at EVE. And Diablo. ;) But I have fun, so hey -- why not?
. |
C DeLeon
Puritans HUN Reloaded
262
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Posted - 2013.09.20 11:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great.
The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding.
Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed.
(Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now ) |
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1144
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay
so they say some people will believe anything I swear ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
C DeLeon wrote:I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great. The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding. Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed. (Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now )
The hate keeps us warm |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay so they say some people will believe anything I swear
Do you disagree that the Auction House shortcuts, and therefore undermines, the entire purpose for playing? I can see how being able to purchase some awesome piece of gear could be enticing to some, however, I also think that defeats the purpose of progression and makes the whole experience less legitimate for those who value the experience of level'ing a character. Like I said earlier - I can sorta see both sides of the coin, it's just a slippery slope in my opinion. |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
142
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
C DeLeon wrote:I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great. The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding. Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed. (Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now )
QFT. D3 is a terribly frustrating game as it is -- IMO the Blizzard team did a great job on the art, music and story, but the loot drop system is beyond terrible. Sure you get piles and piles of loot, but just about all of it is useless, and by the time you hit level 55 or so, nearing the end of Hell mode, this becomes a serious problem because you quite literally can't progress any further unless you pull out the credit card and use the RMAH. I actually quit the game twice after leveling characters up over this issue.
So yeah, the removal of the auction houses, and the adjustment of the loot drops back to how they should be in a real ARPG, can't come soon enough for me. Re-respect gained for Blizzard for admitting their huge mistake and taking steps to correcting the problem.
. |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
642
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:I found this article about how Diablo 3's Auction House is being shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay. Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.
Maybe I'm under-informed... dunno. Perhaps. What are your thoughts?
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/no-money-no-problems-blizzard-axes-diablo-3-auction-house-4B11192195[/url]
Don`t care about D3 sins the f*ck up there game so badly to make it a money gear fest game like world of wankers. No whatever the do the can not fixs the game.
In the other hand lets hope ccp don't want to do this. But I don't think ccp go that patch. So far I notice it. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:I found this article about how Diablo 3's Auction House is being shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay. Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.
Maybe I'm under-informed... dunno. Perhaps. What are your thoughts?
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/no-money-no-problems-blizzard-axes-diablo-3-auction-house-4B11192195[/url] Don`t care about D3 sins the f*ck up there game so badly to make it a money gear fest game like world of wankers. No whatever the do the can not fixs the game. In the other hand lets hope ccp don't want to do this. But I don't think ccp go that patch. So far I notice it.
... roger that.
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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.09.20 11:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
QFT ... ?? |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
142
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:QFT ... ??
"Quoted For Truth"
. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries Dark Tide Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.09.20 11:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:QFT ... ?? "Quoted For Truth"
Ah my first guess was Quit Effin Talking haha |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21032
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Ah my first guess was Quit Effin Talking haha The base mindset of the average EVE player: When in doubt, feel threatened/insulted...
...no wonder nobody wants to play with us. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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