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Roxanna Kell	Posted - 2006.01.15 12:15:00 - [1] a cerberus at 200 mill in sinq laison. up 300 mills in other regions. please stop buying those ahcs as you ll jsut be encouraging the builders increasing the prices. if we carry on this way, they ll jsut make it higher. so please dont buy any over 150 mills, as thats were it gets beyound reasonable.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.01.15 12:16:00 - [2] Check the actual sales in the market data. Are people buying at 300mil? I bloody doubt it.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.01.15 12:17:00 - [3] we lost reason a long time ago at 100, over 150 you are just throwing out the little rest of sanity you had left Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.01.15 12:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Nyphur Check the actual sales in the market data. Are people buying at 300mil? I bloody doubt it. QFT!
Roxanna Kell	Posted - 2006.01.15 12:19:00 - [5] lol
CptEagle	Posted - 2006.01.15 12:46:00 - [6] Problem isn't the manufacterers, its just the lack of tech II BP's... CCP need to release more of them, since supply can't keep up with demand by a long shot. I think supply wasn't able to keep up with demand since the day HAC's were released. And its getting worse every single day, as more people are getting cruiser lvl 5. CCP, relase more hac bp's, do it now. FatBalls > CCP just checked their logs and no lag ever came from EvE
Abraxus	Posted - 2006.01.15 12:46:00 - [7] If there is demand then prices will go up, nothing you can do about it
Moadyb	Posted - 2006.01.15 13:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Abraxus If there is demand then prices will go up, nothing you can do about it Yes, CCP can increase supply! DOH!
Abraxus	Posted - 2006.01.15 13:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Moadyb Originally by: Abraxus If there is demand then prices will go up, nothing you can do about it Yes, CCP can increase supply! DOH! Thats not much of a solution, DOH!
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.01.15 13:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Abraxus Originally by: Moadyb Originally by: Abraxus If there is demand then prices will go up, nothing you can do about it Yes, CCP can increase supply! DOH! Thats not much of a solution, DOH! actually its the only solution Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.01.15 13:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Abraxus Originally by: Moadyb Originally by: Abraxus If there is demand then prices will go up, nothing you can do about it Yes, CCP can increase supply! DOH! Thats not much of a solution, DOH! actually its the only solution Indeed. -------------
Hakera	Posted - 2006.01.15 13:58:00 - [12] decreasing production time would be another.
Saerid	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:05:00 - [13] Edited by: Saerid on 15/01/2006 14:05:57 Either way, HAC production output is just plain too small. More prints would spread the control nicely as well, personally wouldn't mind it in the least (counterintuitively we benefit more from a BPO market where the individuals and small players receive the prints , since larger share of those end up in Stepstone than if major producers buy them. We don't buy our prints, in a word). More demand -> higher prices. Wait times likewise are going up. Wait times & prices going up --> Major alliances and corporations move to secure their own private supply. Since print count hasn't increased at any point, it means even less production for public market. Basically that's the dynamic at work. The obvious/most effective response by major players means even less of a chance for the regular joes to get their hands on the ships. Expect same to be repeated with command ships,interdictors and so forth. Or put this way, I'd be somewhat surprised if BoB for example wasn't a top 3 (or even the top) T2 ship producer in the game. The items available on the public market are just the tip of the iceberg, 9/10ths are out of sight.
Dayon	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:22:00 - [14] Well the problem is that each time a smaller corp/player gets a good BPO they sell it for fast cash to one of the huge corps that own the marked.
Abraxus	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:28:00 - [15] People can complain as much as they like but the fact remains, an item is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. If no one purchases at the higher prices, then prices will drop
Saerid	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Dayon Well the problem is that each time a smaller corp/player gets a good BPO they sell it for fast cash to one of the huge corps that own the marked. Depends on how far you want to generalize. We have well over 100 T2 BPOs ourselves and most are not ours, they belong to those very same small corps and players. We just build/sell from them and ship majority of the cash back to the owners. Granted we probably look suspiciously like a production megacorp, but by and large we're a rent-a-builder service That said, we do have a respectable amount of prints we own as well. But mainly they're someone else's.
darth solo	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:49:00 - [17] battlecruisers rock and roll, use them instead of HACS, and they cost only 25mill with full insurance payout aye. d solo.
Shirei	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:52:00 - [18] It's not builders putting up HACs for 200-300 mil. The HACs that are on the market for so much usually take a few weeks to sell, so those are usually put up by resellers who buy for 100-150 and want to make a profit when it sells after a while. Direct producers tend to sell for lower because they actually have a continuous production they need to sell and don't want the HACs accumulating in their hangar waiting for them to finally sell.
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Abraxus Originally by: Moadyb Originally by: Abraxus If there is demand then prices will go up, nothing you can do about it Yes, CCP can increase supply! DOH! Thats not much of a solution, DOH! beter solution then reducing population and thus reducing demand, D'OH! -Would you attack a lion with a brooch-pin? Why would a lion have a brooch-pin?
CB Cyrix	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:10:00 - [20] WTS Zealot for 200mil in faurent! __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________
Cobra64	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:16:00 - [21] Isn't this just market forces, this is what makes an elite ship, if you allow the ship to become cheap as chips and freely available then they would become like arses and everyone would have one. If everyone could own one then all the people who still only had the skills to fly cruisers wouldn't stand a chance and then the game would become unbalanced. I like it that this is like the having something special, it makes you think twice about taking it into combat and losing it really hurts (I have lost two so far and one of them was to concord LOL) So keep them in short supply CCP, let the well off and the big corps have them, that way it will hurt them more when they lose them. Also, it makes a good target to aim for, I remember the day I flew my first Muninn, fantastic!!! unfortunately I didn't have the skills to kit it out properly so I lost it soon after but I worked hard to get another one and it kept my interest in the game high and drove me towards honing my skills to better keep it alive. In short, stop whining and get working if you want one, by the time you can afford one you'll have decent skills to keep it
weedmasta	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:26:00 - [22] Edited by: weedmasta on 15/01/2006 15:32:31 These things are overpriced indeed and you would understand that more if you knew how much they are produced for in the first place. I think they should be cheaper, a ship 2 classes smaller than a BS, shouldn't be selling for double the price, it just doesn't make sense. Lowering the prices won't hurt anyone or anything, in fact i think it would make the market for these items more flexible. Look at interdictors... Who in their right mind will buy a destroyer that costs more than a geddon. Yes T2 ships should be expensive, no doubt about that, but these prices are just plain ridiculous. p.s. you are saying it will hurt big corps more if they loose HACs, how will it hurt them so much if they got the BPO sitting in their hangars???
Captin ShadowHawk	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Captin ShadowHawk on 15/01/2006 15:32:30 Another HAC too expensive post well they are As with all other posts of this nature the conclusion will be either more bpo's released or less time to produce a hac both are valid points. Do ccp listen I dont know but if we ***** enough maybe they will All i can say is 19,000 plus player on eve now means in the future more demand for hacs.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:33:00 - [24] Ok. Why exactly is the situation a problem ? Because HAC"s are now unattainable for some ? Because they cost more then they are worth to you ? Then...dont buy them ? Why exactly is it a bad thing not everyone that can fly one can get one ? I know a couple reasons why it is a good thing, tell me some reasons why it is bad ... _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Sitri	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:35:00 - [25] If you think they are too expensive DON'T BUY THEM FFS!!!!!!!!! damn whinging babies need to get a life!!!
Xio2	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:38:00 - [26] you probably just think its good cause you have one yourself and don't want anybody to be on par with you. ..its bad because i like cruisers yet a caracal is much too...paper thin for me. -------------- now this is the way a sig should be Xio2
Sitri	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Sitri If you think they are too expensive DON'T BUY THEM FFS!!!!!!!!! damn whinging babies need to get a life!!! read for pity's sake please read!
weedmasta	Posted - 2006.01.15 15:46:00 - [28] It's not about people not being able to afford them. It's about everyone getting ripped off by T2 ship sellers who put them up for ridiculous amounts on the market. As i said, if you knew how much it costs to produce a T2 ship, you would understand what i mean.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.01.15 16:35:00 - [29] Originally by: weedmasta It's not about people not being able to afford them. It's about everyone getting ripped off by T2 ship sellers who put them up for ridiculous amounts on the market. As i said, if you knew how much it costs to produce a T2 ship, you would understand what i mean. I know exactly what it costs. Still, what is the issue ? Overpricing ? Demand does that, not the producer. He could sell it for production cost and see it resold by a trader. Why would he do that ? Why blame producers ? _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Martinez	Posted - 2006.01.15 16:42:00 - [30] doyou think people that work for sport car companys get calls, please lower your prices so everyone can afford them? NO! so quit posting this garbage. it is boring and gets nothing done. its not going to change so save your money buy your own bpo.
Tar Kovsky	Posted - 2006.01.15 16:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Sitri If you think they are too expensive DON'T BUY THEM FFS!!!!!!!!! Signed. Either you think the price is worth it, or you don't buy one. Originally by: darth solo battlecruisers rock and roll, use them instead of HACS, and they cost only 25mill with full insurance payout aye. Exactly. I've stopped buying HACs as well and am rediscovering the joy of battlecruisers. But I'm not doing it out of some stupid desire to "punish" manufacturers -- I'm doing it simply because I get better value for my money.
Trelennen	Posted - 2006.01.15 16:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Martinez doyou think people that work for sport car companys get calls, please lower your prices so everyone can afford them? NO! so quit posting this garbage. it is boring and gets nothing done. its not going to change so save your money buy your own bpo. That works for T1, not for T2 with limited number of BPOs. Besides, nobody (except the fools), blame producers, at least for HACs (for cap rechargers, that's another story), as producers already sell at decent prices for most, and those have insane waiting lists, 'cause they can't increase production. As you like to make IRL analogy, IRL, they would invest to build more factories to increase their production and be able to satisfy the demand. In EVE they can't. IRL, you'd have people reverse engineering and buy similar items, in EVE they can't. There is definitely an artificial shortage on T2 market, and Oveur himself agrees that it's obvious we need more T2 BPO. Now, stop beating the dead horse, hope CCP seeds more T2 BPOs quickly, as there's no valid reason for CCP to keep the shortage being worse and worse every day, and go and feature forums make suggestions to Oveur for next gen research and manufacturing. PS: to those who say there's nothing wrong with such high prices and so on. Well, prices are not that high that HACs price is no longer worth their performances in PVP, specialy considering the difficulty to buy a replacement when you loose it. Result? More and more of those HACs sits in hangars or are used only for carebare mission running in empire. What's the point of a ship that is so uncommon it's nearly no longer used in PVP? HAC shortage reduce diversity in PVP, and that's bad. ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
weedmasta	Posted - 2006.01.15 17:04:00 - [33] Originally by: Martinez doyou think people that work for sport car companys get calls, please lower your prices so everyone can afford them? NO! so quit posting this garbage. it is boring and gets nothing done. its not going to change so save your money buy your own bpo. No, instead people would probably wait and get a sports car when they are high in SUPPLY thus low in prices. Yes something called supply does exist and yes miraculously it does effect prices :p...i.e. Prices are not tied to demand only and prices will be high if supply is low... I never said i blame the producers. Supply needs to be raised for prices to drop, its upto CCP, though i still think producers are greedy.
MWEI	Posted - 2006.01.15 18:03:00 - [34] 300mil? I hope I bought 2 when it was 100mil, if it rise to 300mil thats 400mil profit in my bag Too bad its too good to be true.
Shin Ra	Posted - 2006.01.15 18:09:00 - [35] Edited by: Shin Ra on 15/01/2006 18:11:14 So much more to consider. Its not just simple supply vs demand. Remember: Increase the supply of t2 bpos, and you increase the demand for t2 components. Thus increasing the price of t2 components and thus the cost of HACs. Difficult to say if it will reduce prices at all. Its possible you could end up paying MORE for a hac despite increased bpo supply due to the already massive demand and the possibility that even with more bpos this may not be satisfied. Either way, if mroe bpos are released, 6 months down the line, you will run into the same problem again as demand grows again. Releasing more bpos is a bad and short-term fix. You need to look at other solutions if you want a good long-term fix.
Stirred	Posted - 2006.01.15 18:23:00 - [36] If you dont want to pay 300m for a cerberus, why dont you head over to Nonni and buy one of my Eagles for 90m? -----
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.01.15 18:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Moadyb Originally by: Abraxus If there is demand then prices will go up, nothing you can do about it Yes, CCP can increase supply! DOH! Learn to read? He said nothing YOU can do about it. (doh! etc)
Amerame	Posted - 2006.01.15 18:43:00 - [38] Edited by: Amerame on 15/01/2006 18:45:02 Originally by: Rod Blaine Ok. Why exactly is the situation a problem ? Because HAC"s are now unattainable for some ? Because they cost more then they are worth to you ? Then...dont buy them ? Why exactly is it a bad thing not everyone that can fly one can get one ? I know a couple reasons why it is a good thing, tell me some reasons why it is bad ... The problem is they are not worth their price comparing to their usefullness. Would you be happy if interceptor cost 100M ? would you be happy with the fact that it's now completely useless for any PvP purpose ? I don't mind faction stuff, complexe stuff to be way overpriced compared to their efficiency, but when it comes to T2 of course efficiency should not be proportionnal to price, the cost of a ship should be exponential with it's power, but not a stupidingly huge gap between T1 and T2. HAC are not worth 200M in PvP not matter how you look at it, it's increasingly a toy, something you use once in a while when you're 100% you're not going to get ganked. My opinion is that the price of T2 stuff should not be completely disconnected with their power. Do you want the only efficient way of pvping to be to use T1 items only ? Don't serve us the "don't buy them" when a one year old item is increasingly untainable, as time past technological inovations should become more and more avaible, value of a BPO should decrease with time not the opposite.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.01.15 18:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Amerame Edited by: Amerame on 15/01/2006 18:45:02 The problem is they are not worth their price comparing to their usefullness. Would you be happy if interceptor cost 100M ? would you be happy with the fact that it's now completely useless for any PvP purpose ? I don't mind faction stuff, complexe stuff to be way overpriced compared to their efficiency, but when it comes to T2 of course efficiency should not be proportionnal to price, the cost of a ship should be exponential with it's power, but not a stupidingly huge gap between T1 and T2. HAC are not worth 200M in PvP not matter how you look at it, it's increasingly a toy, something you use once in a while when you're 100% you're not going to get ganked. My opinion is that the price of T2 stuff should not be completely disconnected with their power. Do you want the only efficient way of pvping to be to use T1 items only ? Don't serve us the "don't buy them" when a one year old item is increasingly untainable, as time past technological inovations should become more and more avaible, value of a BPO should decrease with time not the opposite. I know we shoot each other atm but I simply need to quote this for the sake of truth.
Marcus Alkhaar	Posted - 2006.01.15 19:06:00 - [40] If CCP put 3 times as many HAC BPO ingame, the BPO owners will just buy most of them .... If not, Lesser corps will start production! But MARK my words: THIS WONT MAKE HAC PRICES DROP! Simple as that, why should they? YAY WE CAN MAKE ISK If CCP drop the Building Time on HACS! People Like Khatred and the CEO of Naga will be very happy: They Still wont drop prices lower The only way to solve this is to feed the market with HAC BPO's (which is lame IMHO, and wont happen) Edit: these were just examples! I dont want to **** Khatred or Naga Since I am buying my HACS by them
Tassi	Posted - 2006.01.15 19:14:00 - [41] Zealot: around 150 mill Pilgrim with Cov ops cloaking device: 160 mill If it is not obvious now ... yeah
MysticNZ	Posted - 2006.01.15 19:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Shin Ra Edited by: Shin Ra on 15/01/2006 18:11:14 So much more to consider. Its not just simple supply vs demand. Remember: Increase the supply of t2 bpos, and you increase the demand for t2 components. Thus increasing the price of t2 components and thus the cost of HACs. Difficult to say if it will reduce prices at all. Its possible you could end up paying MORE for a hac despite increased bpo supply due to the already massive demand and the possibility that even with more bpos this may not be satisfied. Either way, if mroe bpos are released, 6 months down the line, you will run into the same problem again as demand grows again. Releasing more bpos is a bad and short-term fix. You need to look at other solutions if you want a good long-term fix. If the eve population is rising and more and more people can buy HACs, how is there any other way to increase the amount of hacs being built? There should be an automatic formula, 1 bpo for each % of eve population. -
Blind Fear	Posted - 2006.01.15 20:14:00 - [43] Edited by: Blind Fear on 15/01/2006 20:15:31 Originally by: Shin Ra Edited by: Shin Ra on 15/01/2006 18:11:14 So much more to consider. Its not just simple supply vs demand. Remember: Increase the supply of t2 bpos, and you increase the demand for t2 components. Thus increasing the price of t2 components and thus the cost of HACs. Difficult to say if it will reduce prices at all. Its possible you could end up paying MORE for a hac despite increased bpo supply due to the already massive demand and the possibility that even with more bpos this may not be satisfied. Either way, if mroe bpos are released, 6 months down the line, you will run into the same problem again as demand grows again. Releasing more bpos is a bad and short-term fix. You need to look at other solutions if you want a good long-term fix. The componant cost for a HAC is what, 20-25m? The majority of the market cost now is the markup due to supply shortage. Additionally, if tech2 componants increase in prices, more PoSes can be brought online to increase supply. Given that running PoSes is a helluva lot harder then using an isk-printing BPO, I dont think it would be bad at all if some of the profits from tech2 manufacture were shifted to the PoS portion of the supply chain. The best solution to this would have been steadily releasing more and more BPOs for every item as time went on, from an initial release of 20 up to a ceiling of about 100 for every tech2 module, ammo, and ship after about a year. But there was a decided lack of foresight with reguards to the tech2 market, and its showing now. ------------------------------------------------ Derailing threads with logic since 1992
Alberta	Posted - 2006.01.15 20:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Amerame Edited by: Amerame on 15/01/2006 20:00:13 Edited by: Amerame on 15/01/2006 18:45:02 The problem is they are not worth their price comparing to their usefullness. Would you be happy if interceptor cost 100M ? would you be happy with the fact that it's now completely useless for any PvP purpose ? I don't mind faction stuff, complexe stuff to be way overpriced compared to their efficiency, but when it comes to T2 of course efficiency should not be proportionnal to price, the cost of a ship should be exponential with it's power, but not a stupidingly huge gap between T1 and T2. HAC are not worth 200M in PvP not matter how you look at it, it's increasingly a toy, something you use once in a while when you're 100% you're not going to get ganked. My opinion is that the price of T2 stuff should not be completely disconnected with their power. Do you want the only efficient way of pvping to be to use T1 items only ? Don't serve us the "don't buy them" when a one year old item is increasingly untainable, as time past technological inovations should become more and more available, value of a BPO should decrease with time not the opposite. You're saying they're not worth what they're selling for? That's your point of view, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong to have it, but clearly there's plenty of people out there who disagree with you, or they wouldn't be selling. I don't think the chronic supply shortage of T2 ships is something that was neccessarily intended. This is almost certainly something that is being looked at by the dev's. They might not be sure exactly what they want to do about it yet though. My Thoughts on Game Balance
Roxanna Kell	Posted - 2006.01.15 20:50:00 - [45] all iam saying is, people are taking advantage of the situation, some paid 90 mill build cost max. and i was jsut urging you guys not to encourage them. but looks like all this builders flamed this post to hell. so forget about it.
Messerschmitt facility	Posted - 2006.01.15 20:58:00 - [46] Not to mention how rich the people that sell HAC's are getting. at least 100 mil per day only by ghatering some resources each week for a 7 day production and voila. Uber fat wallet doing almost nothing while other producers try their best to make a 10-20 mil per day with normal production (and T2 ammo prod) Is that fair? _________________________________ A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
Amerame	Posted - 2006.01.15 21:18:00 - [47] Originally by: Alberta You're saying they're not worth what they're selling for? That's your point of view, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong to have it, but clearly there's plenty of people out there who disagree with you, or they wouldn't be selling. I don't think the chronic supply shortage of T2 ships is something that was neccessarily intended. This is almost certainly something that is being looked at by the dev's. They might not be sure exactly what they want to do about it yet though. What I am saying is that the price increase cause a reduced use of them in PvP, especialy in medium - large sized fleets. Faction Battleship are selling just fine, for outrageous amount of money, and they are pretty much never used in PvP, has anyone brought one in a fleet battle ? anyway it's just anecdotical. Is that fine ? yeah it's fine that some of the ships are really rare. But the increased cost of some T2 ship decrease their use in PvP and decrease the tactical options you have, as I have said for inties, do you think it would be cool if their cost was 100M ? There is no doubt at all that if the offer was rare enough inties would sell for that, I mean people are paying 60M for factions frigate. What I am concerned about is that we are going to see less and less t2 ship in fleet engagement, in my the latest fleet battle i've taken part in there were barely any HAC around, a couple of eagles (that still have a decent price for their use) and that's it. Who's going to bring a HAC in a fleet battle if it's worth 200M ? it's going to be primary target because of it's cost and because it drops like rock, yay you just killed the equivalent of 6 BS. Again, it's not because some people buy them for insane price that they will be willing to put them in dangerous operation, they will be toys and that's it. This is NOT fine for a whole class of ship, I guess some people trained to be HAC specialist when you could find them for 50M-60M and are no longer able to use them in PvP on a regular basis, unlike an interceptor pilot, AF, cover op, logistic(!) or whatever else. I don't like the idea of a whole class of ship that is progressively being removed from an important part of the game : PvP that involve more than a dozen of ships.
Hexlander	Posted - 2006.01.15 21:46:00 - [48] Ok.. lets put it this way.. Faction ships cost alot as it is.. but their BPCs.. WTF happened to the price?? The problem is not that the ships themselves are expensive for their worth.. It's that ppl WILL up the price on the BPCs too.. I.E. Phantasm Built: 120mill, In escrow right now.. BPC: 100mill, WTF!! This'll happen to the t2 stuff too.. hell it maybe happening right now.. so if you do the math.. 100mill for the BPC... 90mill for the resauces to build the thing.. And then the builder wants a profit.. so.. sells it for 250~300mill So.. the only way the balance it.. is that the owner of the BPOs MAKE THE **ING SHIPS AND SELL'EM RIGHT! Ppl with'em that can't get the resaurces should sell'em to some1 who can.. But that won't work because ppl want money coming outa their ears.. and prefer to screw everyone from making the BPCs. The only thing now, is to have the NPC factions sell'em too at a higher price than base price. Hell a bit higher than that. tbh, i was hoping to get a demios myself.. then found out the skill for heavy assaults is 30mill.. then the ships, were, 80mill.. and now.. it's up in the 150's.. why? --=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-- Power corrupts. Absolute power, corrupts absolutely**!(\_/) 00B (0.0) License to kill (r <) Banging the Universe 1 by 1 "OH... BUNNY!"
Lightof God	Posted - 2006.01.15 21:51:00 - [49] Kinda surprised no one has brought this up yet because it is a BPO cant the owners of the BPO BPCU it to increase production if they wanted to?
Antic	Posted - 2006.01.15 22:30:00 - [50] HAC prices will never go down as long as pepole buy at these prices. No matter how many RAMs they have etc. If new BPOs are seeded and the new people start selling HACS at resonable prices, the high price people or other profiteers will just buy them up and resell them at the higher price. So the main culprit is that people do buy them at the current price. While they do no BPO seed in the world will fix prices.
Prez21	Posted - 2006.01.15 22:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Martinez doyou think people that work for sport car companys get calls, please lower your prices so everyone can afford them? NO! so quit posting this garbage. it is boring and gets nothing done. its not going to change so save your money buy your own bpo. I agree with this point, however if i was to pay 150k for a sports car i would expect more than 17k insurance payout if i crashed it, i dont mind saving up all that money, infact im quite happy to spend that money on a HAC but the problem for me is the poor insurance payout on these ships and thats what i believe ccp needs to look into changing not the ship prices them selves
Kane Ululani	Posted - 2006.01.15 22:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Prez21 [ ...the problem for me is the poor insurance payout on these ships and thats what i believe ccp needs to look into changing not the ship prices them selves Yes, but having insurance on HACs removes what little price resistance there is in the game. The only good reason for changing T2 boats insurance schema is that an isk sink is being unutilized. But that would require some significant changes in production/manufacturing to avoid even more massive inflation.
Antic	Posted - 2006.01.15 22:58:00 - [53] Originally by: Prez21 Originally by: Martinez doyou think people that work for sport car companys get calls, please lower your prices so everyone can afford them? NO! so quit posting this garbage. it is boring and gets nothing done. its not going to change so save your money buy your own bpo. I agree with this point, however if i was to pay 150k for a sports car i would expect more than 17k insurance payout if i crashed it, i dont mind saving up all that money, infact im quite happy to spend that money on a HAC but the problem for me is the poor insurance payout on these ships and thats what i believe ccp needs to look into changing not the ship prices them selves They cant rise insurance on HACs without also rising production cost. Or else people can produce a HAC insure it and then kill it and recieve more money back than it costed them to both construct it, and insure it in the long run.
Arcnight	Posted - 2006.01.16 03:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Roxanna Kell a cerberus at 200 mill in sinq laison. up 300 mills in other regions. please stop buying those ahcs as you ll jsut be encouraging the builders increasing the prices. if we carry on this way, they ll jsut make it higher. so please dont buy any over 150 mills, as thats were it gets beyound reasonable. Yeah and buying from walmarts is a bad idea too, encouraging more jobs to move over to china, but try telling that to 75% of america. People are too short sighted for the most part, while people SHOULD refuse to buy the overpriced HAC's....they won't and you, most likely, won't convince them otherwise. (but I do agree...stop buying them people, Lower demand = lower price)
Trelennen	Posted - 2006.01.16 04:35:00 - [55] Originally by: Antic HAC prices will never go down as long as pepole buy at these prices. No matter how many RAMs they have etc. If new BPOs are seeded and the new people start selling HACS at resonable prices, the high price people or other profiteers will just buy them up and resell them at the higher price. So the main culprit is that people do buy them at the current price. While they do no BPO seed in the world will fix prices. Wrong. When stuff gets unsold in a reasonable time, seller drop the prices. So if production is increased, there won't be more people buying at the current market price, which means if market prices stay the same, sellers will have surplusses. Hence they'll lower their price to make less profit per ship but more profit over their stock. That's basic economics. There's only a small amount of people with the will to pay those prices. Currently that covers the amount of ships produced, hence why the prices are that high (and keep going up, as, the player base increasing, the amount of people willing to pay a lot increases too). Increase stock, and there will be less people willing to buy at those prices than HACs availabe, hence price decrease. ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Minuz1	Posted - 2006.01.16 04:50:00 - [56] Edited by: Minuz1 on 16/01/2006 04:53:25 Edited by: Minuz1 on 16/01/2006 04:50:27 This is the most absurd idea ever!!!! Stop buying HAC's->prices go down->more people buy them-> prices go up again. waaaahooo, and you have created a new profession... the speculators! The Tech 2 Lottery is rigged, In my favor!
Megadon	Posted - 2006.01.16 05:49:00 - [57] What's funny to me is that there are people that think a Cerberus is 6 X's better than a Ferox.... Ya sure. "The Battleships is and should be a solo pwnmobile." - Oveur
Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2006.01.16 06:14:00 - [58] I like the fact they are really expensive. Would be ridiculous if everyone could afford to pvp in them. They should be rare and expensive and flashy and it should hurt when they are destroyed. Where is the fun in knowing that the war enemy whose Cerb I just blew up could buy another one down the space-walmart at 55m? The rarety and competitive fervour drives up the prices of these top of the range ships and thats a good thing. More tech1 bargain basement ships means more pvp for everyone and more variety on the types of ships flown in space. _________________ Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction!
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.01.16 06:18:00 - [59] Edited by: Breed Love on 16/01/2006 06:23:48 umm... to all "hacs are fine" dudes: Point me to a thread/dev blog entry with an official statement in likes of "tech 2 should be overpriced to the extent that they are only available to a tiny fraction of the playerbase". Until then every wise person will consider what you say a very biased personal opinion with not much truth in it. This especially applies to those who get a discount on hacs and other t2 items thanks to themselves/their corp or alliance owning bpo's. In other words: plz prove that t2 should really be exclusive and not just a modified and improved version of a standard ship. Show me a dev comment that confirms this. Secondly, convince everyone that this exclusiveness is meant to be achieved by extreme prices and not other thing (such as high skill reqs etc).
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.16 07:36:00 - [60] Originally by: Roxanna Kell a cerberus at 200 mill in sinq laison. up 300 mills in other regions. Why would you say that? FFS, buy them 200mil ones and sell them for 250mil in the 300mil regions. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.16 07:49:00 - [61] Originally by: Stirred If you dont want to pay 300m for a cerberus, why dont you head over to Nonni and buy one of my Eagles for 90m? Because you can find an eagle for less than that in some other places? Atleast I remember seeing an eagle for 80mil last night while running stuf to my missioning base. Would've bought it if i had the money, but alas. Lack of playtime = lack of isk. There's a few easy ways out of that. But I'll quit EVE an iskless pod pilot with nothing but an ibis to my name before I sell a timecard or buy isk in any way. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Miabio	Posted - 2006.01.16 10:51:00 - [62] if your insurance can't cover the ship at least, then you are being stupid. When I go up against multiple targets (and I fly the 'cheap' variety of ship) and I know I am dead, I kill the HAC, at least I know it will put a dent in their wallet whereas my insurance will cover both the ship AND the gear (almost).
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2006.01.16 13:10:00 - [63] The reason that HAC prices have increased is that there was a shortage of RAMs after RMR was released. Before too long, we'll see player produced RAMs on the market in quantity, and this should increase supply, therefore lowering the price. At the same time, more recon cruisers and command ships will be hitting the market. A lot of these will be bought by players who would otherwise have been flying HACs. Therefore, demand will also drop, also lowering the market value. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.16 13:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Megadon What's funny to me is that there are people that think a Cerberus is 6 X's better than a Ferox.... Ya sure. It dosn't need to be, it only needs to be better enough to beat the Ferox. Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.01.16 14:06:00 - [65] Originally by: Rodj Blake The reason that HAC prices have increased is that there was a shortage of RAMs after RMR was released. Before too long, we'll see player produced RAMs on the market in quantity, and this should increase supply, therefore lowering the price. At the same time, more recon cruisers and command ships will be hitting the market. A lot of these will be bought by players who would otherwise have been flying HACs. Therefore, demand will also drop, also lowering the market value. Dont blame manufacturers, blame resellers. We have to play the crazy prices because of some unscrupulous resellers being greedy. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
000Hunter000	Posted - 2006.01.16 14:07:00 - [66] Hm lets force ccp to give me a HAC bpo (esp a cerb please) I'll promise i'll sell them below 100 mill each Wheeee, still 70 mill pure profit!!!
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.01.16 14:44:00 - [67] Originally by: Rod Blaine I know exactly what it costs. Still, what is the issue ? Overpricing ? Demand does that, not the producer. He could sell it for production cost and see it resold by a trader. Why would he do that ? Why blame producers ? pWn3d. The producer can overprice, but that is certainly not the case here. Price of materials is insignificant compared to demand here. If suddenly materials quadrupled in price, that does not mean the producers can raise their price. They might just have to eat the cost if people are not willing to pay anymore. They sell for what they are worth to the buyer, not an isk more. In Eve you don't get 150m isk without having some sense of value. (unless you bought the account ) ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Dracolich	Posted - 2006.01.18 21:03:00 - [68] I blame inflation... Isk was hard to come by in 03. Easier in 04, much easier in 05, and in 06... well I hope you see where I am going. _______________________________________
Lexor SLice	Posted - 2006.01.18 21:07:00 - [69] i was mad enough when i paid 110 for my vagabond, i'll never pay more than that...ever ESE is Recruiting skilled Miners and Pvp'ers! Proud Member of the FIX alliance.... Originally by: O
Liet Traep	Posted - 2006.01.18 23:39:00 - [70] Originally by: Cobra64 Isn't this just market forces, this is what makes an elite ship, if you allow the ship to become cheap as chips and freely available then they would become like arses and everyone would have one. If everyone could own one then all the people who still only had the skills to fly cruisers wouldn't stand a chance and then the game would become unbalanced. I like it that this is like the having something special, it makes you think twice about taking it into combat and losing it really hurts (I have lost two so far and one of them was to concord LOL) So keep them in short supply CCP, let the well off and the big corps have them, that way it will hurt them more when they lose them. Also, it makes a good target to aim for, I remember the day I flew my first Muninn, fantastic!!! unfortunately I didn't have the skills to kit it out properly so I lost it soon after but I worked hard to get another one and it kept my interest in the game high and drove me towards honing my skills to better keep it alive. In short, stop whining and get working if you want one, by the time you can afford one you'll have decent skills to keep it There's a place for rare and elite ships. those are faction ships. I feel that anyone who engages in the long training time for a t2 item should be able to give it a try. It's part of the fun of the game. What's really sad is less people pvping in HACS because the damned things are so expensive.
Lorth	Posted - 2006.01.18 23:44:00 - [71] Umm... Well most producers that I know of arn't stupid. if resellers are buying all the HAC's and reselling them, most producers will simply raise thier own prices. The simple, and easiest reason for the prices of HAC's is... People are willing to pay that much for one. Enough so that any that enter the market at the curret prices are sold within a short amount of time. Its pretty simple really.
Mikha'il Pelegius	Posted - 2006.01.19 01:38:00 - [72] Quote: Dont blame manufacturers, blame resellers. We have to pay the crazy prices because of some unscrupulous resellers being greedy. That's a cop-out excuse, and you know it. If I know that the manufacturers are selling things at 100m per zealot, and someone is selling them at 140m per zealot, I'm going to still go for the 100m pricetag instead of paying the reseller. Sure, maybe they purchase -all- the HACs for reselling. That isn't a concern or 'lost profit'. Sell Hacs at the price they should be sold at, and leave the "omfg resellers" to players who will still pay the 50 million extra isk when they know they can private order it directly for 100m. ----------------------
Liet Traep	Posted - 2006.01.19 09:00:00 - [73] Originally by: Lorth Umm... Well most producers that I know of arn't stupid. if resellers are buying all the HAC's and reselling them, most producers will simply raise thier own prices. The simple, and easiest reason for the prices of HAC's is... People are willing to pay that much for one. Enough so that any that enter the market at the curret prices are sold within a short amount of time. Its pretty simple really. The easiest reason for HAC prices being so out of control is this. Small supply huge demand. More people can and want to fly them than can actually afford to do so. If there was a largwer supply there'd be too many for resellers to buy them all. Competetion is good. Give more people the bpo's or let agent runners get 1-run hac bpcs from their agents. FInd some way to introduce more hacs into the market. I love the zealot. Awesome pvp ship. At 150+ million I don't bother. I trained BC 5 and fly the Prophecy instead. If I could get them at a reasonable price I'd fly them and use them in pvp. As it is they're big expensive toys.

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