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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving IN to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the IN mechanics are revised.
Reason 1: IN ships are very hard to catch as it is. Interceptors are already hard to catch as it is, and generally you need a bubble to catch them. In truth, the number one method to gank a traveling fit inty is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. By making inties IN, they simply become very safe nullsec shuttles. No thank you... Reason 2: Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that an IN cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.
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Grey Beard
The Flying Dead Insidious Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
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Baron' Soontir Fel
Justified Chaos
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:\\ Reason 2:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
I think this is the larger problem. Maybe Interceptors get a passive IN module that allows them to turn it on/off? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3648
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Grey Beard wrote:Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
Not empty quoting.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
554
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
I love the idea. Interceptors should be able to...you know...intercept.
This is a good move.
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
851
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
you can disrupt it .. with single target points just like you can with nullified T3's
oh noes .. the days of easymode kills with bubbled gates are doomed. eve is dying !!!!11 |
Eggs Ackley
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
I am not real thrilled either. Not because I am a gate camper, more so that T3s were the only ones before. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
290
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Grey Beard wrote:Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
Not empty quoting. Doc ------> https://community.eveonline.com/community/volunteer-program/application/ |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
438
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
So the OP must be doubly annoyed that inties will now, with the warp changes, be able to like, intercept even faster as well as being immune to bubbles. |
Xaen
Aperture Harmonics K162
72
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving IN to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the IN mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
IN ships are very hard to catch as it is. Interceptors are already hard to catch as it is, and generally you need a bubble to catch them. In truth, the number one method to gank a traveling fit inty is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. By making inties IN, they simply become very safe nullsec shuttles. No thank you... Reason 2: Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that an IN cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.
My initial reaction to this was "cool, that's totally in line with being "an interceptor"".
And I'm open to hearing what ideas you have to improving either their plans or the existing situation, but you offered neither. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1576
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
They're perfectly acceptable. Stop being ******* lazy, and fit some of your own Inties with scrams. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Grey Beard wrote:Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
Not empty quoting.
Your both missing the big picture...
I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble. An inty pilot enters system and warps to my gate feeling overconfident because they have a fleet behind them. The inty lands in my bubble, I destroy him, and warp out as his fleet lands. This provides several advantages, especially the ability to be "at zero" on the inty when it lands. This also only catches the overconfident moronic inty pilots that don't have bookmarks, and warp gate to gate. This is a very reasonable playstyle for beginner solo pilots in frigs and the like.
With this change, the status quo will move to insta-locking RSB ships on a gate. IMO, I think insta-locking ships are ridiculous, not to mention much harder to avoid than a simple drag bubble. |
Spurty
978
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Why care about an inty and why protect daft bubbles?
Put a bs in a belt and wait. That's how you catch them. Thinking is hard
Only annoying thing my mind (about recent updates) is that all new ships can fit covert ops cloaks.
Ugh
--- GòöGòùGòöGòÉGòªGòù GòæGòÜGòúGòæGòæGòÜGòù GòÜGòÉGò¬GòÉGò¬GòÉGò¥
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2892
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving IN to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the IN mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
IN ships are very hard to catch as it is. Interceptors are already hard to catch as it is, and generally you need a bubble to catch them. In truth, the number one method to gank a traveling fit inty is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. By making inties IN, they simply become very safe nullsec shuttles. No thank you... Reason 2: Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that an IN cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.
Firstly, I love the idea of Interceptors being able to do this as long as they have a hard time fitting cynos as ccp said. Interceptors need to be able to ....intercept.
Secondly, what's with is "IN" crap? You don't have to turn everything into an acronym ("nullified" works just fine) and it makes for confusing reading. Every time you said "IN ship", It made me ask "well, WTF does it do when it goes back OUT"?
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xaen wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving IN to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the IN mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
IN ships are very hard to catch as it is. Interceptors are already hard to catch as it is, and generally you need a bubble to catch them. In truth, the number one method to gank a traveling fit inty is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. By making inties IN, they simply become very safe nullsec shuttles. No thank you... Reason 2: Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that an IN cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.
My initial reaction to this was "cool, that's totally in line with being "an interceptor"". And I'm open to hearing what ideas you have to improving either their plans or the existing situation, but you offered neither.
Did you even read my post? I proposed a potential change to Interdiction Nullifiers that would balance it out. Additionally, what "existing" situation needs remedied? Interceptors move through nullsec very reliably. If you need to get around more safely, use a covops instead. It warps at the same speed of inties, it cloaks, and if you can fly inties it takes like 2 days to get into a covops!
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Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
276
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wah "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1577
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble.
Translation: I am a one trick pony who fears having to master new tactics. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4532
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Warfare is changing overall to with ships able to beat other ships to warppoints. Dust 514's CPM 0 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.-á |
Xaen
Aperture Harmonics K162
72
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Xaen wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving IN to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the IN mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
IN ships are very hard to catch as it is. Interceptors are already hard to catch as it is, and generally you need a bubble to catch them. In truth, the number one method to gank a traveling fit inty is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. By making inties IN, they simply become very safe nullsec shuttles. No thank you... Reason 2: Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that an IN cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.
My initial reaction to this was "cool, that's totally in line with being "an interceptor"". And I'm open to hearing what ideas you have to improving either their plans or the existing situation, but you offered neither. Did you even read my post? I proposed a potential change to Interdiction Nullifiers that would balance it out. Additionally, what "existing" situation needs remedied? Interceptors move through nullsec very reliably. If you need to get around more safely, use a covops instead. It warps at the same speed of inties, it cloaks, and if you can fly inties it takes like 2 days to get into a covops! You're the one assuming something needed to be remedied! I asked for improvements, not remedies.
The problem with your view on interceptors is that bubbles are the I-win-butan against interceptors. It completely nullifies their utility if they can't use any warping ability or cloak. It's like catching a fly in molasses. Which sounds like the flycatcher's role, but should a dictor be the trump card to all interceptors? I tentatively think not, but you've not convinced me that I'm wrong.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble.
Translation: I am a one trick pony who fears having to master new tactics.
This is a nerf to bubbles, which are used to control the engagement range at the start of a fight in many, many situations.
Want to durka that goon hornet gang, put a bubble at the sun, and as they are chasing you, warp to it and smartbomb. Now all inty pilots will warp in at 20 km's and be safe.
I could give other examples, but generally speaking, when you want to catch a fast ship, it is ideal to start the engagement at zero. Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1579
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune.
Correct. Now learn a new way to do things if you want to catch these ships. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
276
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble.
Translation: I am a one trick pony who fears having to master new tactics. This is a nerf to bubbles, which are used to control the engagement range at the start of a fight in many, many situations. Want to durka that goon hornet gang, put a bubble at the sun, and as they are chasing you, warp to it and smartbomb. Now all inty pilots will warp in at 20 km's and be safe. I could give other examples, but generally speaking, when you want to catch a fast ship, it is ideal to start the engagement at zero. Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune.
Even more Wah
Adapt or biomass. "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
31
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here I brought you some help and support. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xaen wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Xaen wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving IN to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the IN mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
IN ships are very hard to catch as it is. Interceptors are already hard to catch as it is, and generally you need a bubble to catch them. In truth, the number one method to gank a traveling fit inty is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. By making inties IN, they simply become very safe nullsec shuttles. No thank you... Reason 2: Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that an IN cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.
My initial reaction to this was "cool, that's totally in line with being "an interceptor"". And I'm open to hearing what ideas you have to improving either their plans or the existing situation, but you offered neither. Did you even read my post? I proposed a potential change to Interdiction Nullifiers that would balance it out. Additionally, what "existing" situation needs remedied? Interceptors move through nullsec very reliably. If you need to get around more safely, use a covops instead. It warps at the same speed of inties, it cloaks, and if you can fly inties it takes like 2 days to get into a covops! You're the one assuming something needed to be remedied! I asked for improvements, not remedies. The problem with your view on interceptors is that bubbles are the I-win-butan against interceptors. It completely nullifies their utility if they can't use any warping ability or cloak. It's like catching a fly in molasses. Which sounds like the flycatcher's role, but should a dictor be the trump card to all interceptors? I tentatively think not, but you've not convinced me that I'm wrong.
A dictor isn't a trump card to inties. Catching an inty going through a gate is not as simple as putting a dictor bubble up on the gate. First off, most inties can outrun a dictor. Next, if the gate camp is scary, they can power back to gate often before anyone can even lock them! Frankly, the improvements inties needed were the "fast warp acceleration" so they can actually warp from gate to gate faster than a BS.
Can inties get through every gate camp? In general, most nullsec camps now use bubblers to "snag targets". An interceptor has many options for dealing with this: Power out of the bubble and warp away. Power back to gate and exit to safety. Neither one of these are fool proof, but they work in 90% of all nullsec gate camps. Some camps have options inhibited by long range scramblers and webbers, or alpha ships, but most dont!
In contrast, the new norm will be to include fast locking ships that can insta-lock an inty before it warps. This won't be an improvement of game play, as these types of camps are generally viewed as obnoxious. Furthermore, the newb-friendly setup a drag bubble and camp it with an AB frigate gameplay is very much hurt, as interceptors, their primary targets, become immune to this basic trap.
Overall, this change to interceptors is a bad thing!
Seriously, why change it: To travel more safely through nullsec in an inty --- This is a TERRIBLE reason for the change. Get a covops, or deal with the dangers of nullsec. To catch PvEers in bubble-secured systems --- This has some merits, but I doubt it will really change anything. You still show up in local before you load grid, and pilots will still get into warp before you can locate and warp to them. So what other purpose is there to this change? Hell, I'd rather leave inties alone and make covops nullified instead, just with a more brutal align time to compensate.
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Adunh Slavy
1258
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
If it gets more people into null, then great. If it hurts lame gate camps, boo hoo. Cry more or something. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
marVLs
419
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Everything to kill those lame gate camps and bubble camps is welcome |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
I know there are very skittish, sit on your but and camp a bubble all day players. I am not one of those. I'm much more of a small gang and solo roamer, that likes to interdict people flying stupid in their corner of nullsec. I feel pretty strongly that interceptors don't need this buff, but it will be a nice boost to my taranis.
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JinSanJong
Brethren Holdings Brethren.
45
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Do you know what I hate most in eve? Lazy ass mobile bubbles and even more drag bubble, which are the most ridiculous item/mechanic in eve. Why should you be able to go afk and still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! Personally I think you should be able to have a nullifier mod fitted for every ship |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
JinSanJong wrote:Do you know what I hate most in eve? Lazy ass mobile bubbles and even more drag bubble, which are the most ridiculous item/mechanic in eve. When should you be able to be ago abs still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! Personally I think you should be able to have a nullifier mod fitted for every ship
Avoiding bubbles is extremely easy! Don't warp gate to gate! Bounce off bookmarks, bounce off celestials, bounce off anomalies, etc. I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!
And bubbles are one of the best mechanics CCP has ever introduced to the game. The ability to set engagement distances, the ability to surprise a target that doesn't expect to leave warp at your bubble's edge... This has extreme tactical value, and are by far one of the best mechanics in the game.
p.s. Your "I hate bubbles mantra" (a.k.a. please make nullsec travel safer for me) is EXACTLY why this change is simply terrible! |
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
210
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
TEAR EXTRACTION STATUS: SUCCESSFUL |
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Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
192
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
If certain somebodys in Amamake can use smartbombing battleships to kill frigates on gates, why can't you? |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!
So.... in all those years you've never been to a system that you can't avoid a bubble using celestials? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:If certain somebodys in Amamake can use smartbombing battleships to kill frigates on gates, why can't you?
Generally speaking, because the traps I set usually involve people chasing me around and landing with me in a bubble. I usually don't sit 6 km's off a gate with smartbombs running hoping a noob will warp through the blast radius.
I'm not worried about a lack of kills on my killboard, I'm worried about the direction of this change: Making it safer to travel through nullsec.
Covert cloak ships and MWD-Cloak Ships had to contend with bubbles. Fairly balanced. Add in Nullified syb-systems, limited to t3's... Prefer not, but fairly limited to hulls. These can also be decloaked. Add in MJD-Cloak ships (which are immune to bubbles), but limited to BS's. These are more easily decloaked, and still limited.
Now add interceptors to the list of "safe travel nullsec ships"... why? what good does this do? We don't need safer nullsec travel!
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1295
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Grey Beard wrote:Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
Not empty quoting.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!
So.... in all those years you've never been to a system that you can't avoid a bubble using celestials?
There are only a handful of systems with bubbles you can't avoid using celestials. Do they exist, sure. Do we need interceptors to be able to travel through these systems? No, we don't. We already have covops ships, nullified t3's, and MJD Battleships. Why do we need or want nullified interceptors?
Frankly, those are the system that I purposely fly my interceptor INTO the bubbles so I can get tackle on a gate campers. If I'm out solo, and ill-prepared to deal with the very predictable campers, I simply avoid those systems!
We don't need nullified interceptors! They really are just the next generation of interdiction nullified tier 3's, so I'm-to-lazy-to-have-bookmarks and I'm-to-dumb-to-avoid-hostiles don't have to think when traveling through nullsec. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
261
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
JinSanJong wrote:Why should you be able to go afk and still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! It is called piloting. Bounce off a celestial. Diapers |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
178
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sebo'd instalockers will still catch them if you aren't sleeping. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Sebo'd instalockers will still catch them if you aren't sleeping.
I agree. And I'll be sure to bring a sebo'd ares rather than a sabre when out roaming. That's not the point though.
Who really benefits from this change? -- The inty that cant be asked to get bookmarks in their region of travel, so they can move about more safely. -- The inty that stupidly warps gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system.
Who do many of the nay-sayers in this thread wrongly think will be hit: -- Gate campers that sit on a bubble all day, because they're smart enough to bring an insta-lock ship with them!
This change doesn't improve the game, it dumbs it down for the ill-prepared. It encourages carebears to bubble wrap their gates, cause now they can travel in and out of system easily with a cheap interceptor.
This change is just bad! |
Schmata Bastanold
The brothers inc WHYS0 Expendable
983
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think you are too focused on inties change and you are missing core feature announced yesterday. There will be nobody in null for you to chase or try to bait into traps after Rubicon hits TQ, all null dwellers will be in hisec taking over POCOs and killing game. That's what "paying customers" say so it must be true. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3504
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Your both missing the big picture...
I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble. An inty pilot enters system and warps to my gate feeling overconfident because they have a fleet behind them. The inty lands in my bubble, I destroy him, and warp out as his fleet lands. This provides several advantages, especially the ability to be "at zero" on the inty when it lands. This also only catches the overconfident moronic inty pilots that don't have bookmarks, and warp gate to gate. This is a very reasonable playstyle for beginner solo pilots in frigs and the like.
With this change, the status quo will move to insta-locking RSB ships on a gate. IMO, I think insta-locking ships are ridiculous, not to mention much harder to avoid than a simple drag bubble.
I think you've somehow now blinded by something, and refuse to see how incredibly weak your cause here is.
Do you actually claim that killing newbro inty pilots with drag bubbles and bailing before pvp happens is a very reasonable playstyle? Is that your "big picture"? Seriously, Agony?
Seriously,we won't be bringing back the old unique ships for events. We might give other stuff away that is interesting, but no Guardian Vexor, Opux Luxury Yacht, Fedthron, Impoc, SIR, etc, etc.-á |
|
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1592
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This change is just bad!
For solo bubble campers, sure.
For small gangs that want to take a squad of inties out and troll nullsec, it's a great change. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 19:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Roime wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Your both missing the big picture...
I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble. An inty pilot enters system and warps to my gate feeling overconfident because they have a fleet behind them. The inty lands in my bubble, I destroy him, and warp out as his fleet lands. This provides several advantages, especially the ability to be "at zero" on the inty when it lands. This also only catches the overconfident moronic inty pilots that don't have bookmarks, and warp gate to gate. This is a very reasonable playstyle for beginner solo pilots in frigs and the like.
With this change, the status quo will move to insta-locking RSB ships on a gate. IMO, I think insta-locking ships are ridiculous, not to mention much harder to avoid than a simple drag bubble.
I think you've somehow now blinded by something, and refuse to see how incredibly weak your cause here is. Do you actually claim that killing newbro inty pilots with drag bubbles and bailing before pvp happens is a very reasonable playstyle? Is that your "big picture"? Seriously, Agony?
It is one of many tactics used in Assymetric Engagements. Quite often we run into situations where we have quite a bit fewer targets than our opponent. Setting up traps to kill their scouts and get out. Using bubbles to split their fleet to engage-able chunks, etc.
I see this change as generally a means to make nullsec safer, which is the wrong direction.
Realize, there are several incoming features that I believe will be great for nullsec PvP, I just think more interdiction nullified ships is a bad thing! |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
270
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 20:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
From a gatecamp perspective, the solution to this has existed for some time in the form of remote sensor boosters. Remote sebo a thrasher, interceptor, or dissolution sequenced Legion/Loki and you can lock anyone before they cloak/warp. This has been done for some time in lowsec, so you don't even have to adapt that much really, just copy what others have been doing for years.
Likewise, they did not remove "splitting a gang," they simply changed it. Now, if an enemy fleet warps to the sun (that is bubbled), the interceptors will be separated from the main fleet, and you can pick them off. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
102
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 20:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble.
Translation: I am a one trick pony who fears having to master new tactics. This is a nerf to bubbles, which are used to control the engagement range at the start of a fight in many, many situations. Want to durka that goon hornet gang, put a bubble at the sun, and as they are chasing you, warp to it and smartbomb. Now all inty pilots will warp in at 20 km's and be safe. I could give other examples, but generally speaking, when you want to catch a fast ship, it is ideal to start the engagement at zero. Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune.
think of it less as fewer inties dieing and more as a lot more fleeing fleets having stagglers tackled. Having smaller ships being able to arrive faster than big ships is hugely desirable and one of many changes i am excited about. |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 20:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.
I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.
I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 20:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.
I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.
I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well.
I love the warp acceleration change.... I just think defensive bubbling should be a viable tactic to slow you down! I'm really not a fan of interdiction nullified ships, and I see no good reason to make interceptors nullified!
|
Ahriantis
AHRINATION
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 20:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
This is a tear-thread about a change that benefits everyone but the solo-bubblers/gate campers. The change is coming and it's pretty much final. Learn a new trick. |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 20:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sounds like a refreshing change.
I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.
It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.
|
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
349
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
This assumes that facilitating movement is a bad thing. Making camping effective encourage people to sit on their asses and results in less actual interesting content. |
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill bubble immune! **** this gay game.
|
|
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.
I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.
I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well. I love the warp acceleration change.... I just think defensive bubbling should be a viable tactic to slow you down! I'm really not a fan of interdiction nullified ships, and I see no good reason to make interceptors nullified!
|
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
They were ALREADY nearly impossible to catch WITHOUT bubble immunity. If this change goes through, they will be untouchable. Its ridiculous anyone thinks this is a good idea.
|
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill, that it SPECIALIZED in killing, bubble immune! **** this gay game.
Adapt or die.
The inties adapted.
|
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Ribeye Jaksom wrote:Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill, that it SPECIALIZED in killing, bubble immune! **** this gay game. Adapt or die. The inties adapted.
shut up nerd
|
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:
shut up nerd
Ha!
Priceless example of having no real argument.
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2626
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Sounds like a refreshing change.
I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.
It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.
......
Priceless example of having no real argument.
How about you put forward your argument:
How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle.
How exactly does this "move the game forward"? --- Hint: If your answer can be summed up as, it enables safer movement throughout nullsec for interceptors, why are you using an interceptor to begin with when a covops performs that role?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16687
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle. GǪbut the target is tackled, as intended, so it works out very nicely.
Quote:How exactly does this "move the game forward"? By introducing new tactics and proper operational manoeuvring and requiring something more clever than just dumping bubbles everywhere, thereby smartening up the game considerably for everyone involved.
Since tactics to catch these interceptors have already been developed (or more accurately have been there all along), not even the potential problem of making them difficult to kill exists. All around an excellent change of mechanics. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Tikitina wrote:Sounds like a refreshing change.
I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.
It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.
......
Priceless example of having no real argument.
How about you put forward your argument: How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle. For one, It allows inties to avoid the delaying tactics of Dictors dropping bubbles to help their group disengage a pursuing group as one exampleHow exactly does this "move the game forward"? --- Hint: If your answer can be summed up as, it enables safer movement throughout nullsec for interceptors, why are you using an interceptor to begin with when a covops performs that role? It creates the possibility of new gameplay by breaking some existing, what many consider stagnate, gameplay
Inline
Plus, the fact that intie pilots will have to account for their new found ability that can prevent them from catching someone who is caught by a bubble while they are not means that this new ability would be a dual edged sword, which is inline with what Eve is about.
|
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:I love the idea. Interceptors should be able to...you know...intercept.
This is a good move. I'm in this category. While I respect the OP's reasoning, I'm am swayed by CCP's concept of an interdictor having full reign of all the space they travel through.
The OP's objections are mostly on tactical grounds - that current tactics would be rendered unusable. I hear those objections, but I'll suggest that Eve capsuleers are a wily bunch who will quickly adapt with fresh, new, and maybe even more devestating tactics.
There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
277
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:07:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:They were ALREADY nearly impossible to catch WITHOUT bubble immunity. If this change goes through, they will be untouchable. Its ridiculous anyone thinks this is a good idea.
Well now you're just full of ****. Interceptors are the T2 ships that die the most in Eve, and always have been. I suppose none of those dead interceptors were "caught." |
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
574
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
This idea is great ! Stop complaining. G££ <= Me |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
70
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tippia wrote:How exactly does this "move the game forward"? By introducing new tactics and proper operational manoeuvring and requiring something more clever than just dumping bubbles everywhere, thereby smartening up the game considerably for everyone involved.
Since tactics to catch these interceptors have already been developed (or more accurately have been there all along), not even the potential problem of making them difficult to kill exists. All around an excellent change of mechanics.
Tippia i have read many of your posts and I almost universally appreciate your opinions as well thought out even though i disagree with you almost 100% of the time.
What i really wanted to say though is great Avatar, a slight smug smile that makes me want to punch your avatar in the face.
I mean that in a good way ( not being sarcastic ).
Cheers!
Maldiro Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2626
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:11:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle. GǪbut the target is tackled, as intended, so it works out very nicely.
Not really... Inty chasing my Vexor. I warp to a celestial to run away, and land in a bubble 100 km's or more off the celestial. The inty lands at zero on the celestial, in a very different place. Yes, I'm in a bubble, but can easily get out of it before the inty can tackle me.
Tippia wrote:Quote:How exactly does this "move the game forward"? By introducing new tactics and proper operational manoeuvring and requiring something more clever than just dumping bubbles everywhere, thereby smartening up the game considerably for everyone involved. Since tactics to catch these interceptors have already been developed (or more accurately have been there all along), not even the potential problem of making them difficult to kill exists. All around an excellent change of mechanics.
Are you serious? This implementation isn't to create new tactics or "proper operational movement". It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer. I figured you'd be one of the few to rally against making EvE safer and easier!
|
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
277
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Are you serious? This implementation isn't to create new tactics or "proper operational movement". It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer. I figured you'd be one of the few to rally against making EvE safer and easier!
It doesn't make it safer though. Cloaky nullified T3's exist that are far safer for travel purposes. Carriers, Blops+Blockade Runners, and Jump Freighters are even safer still as those ships, if only considering moving from point A to point B for logistical purposes need never come on grid with another hostile. Ever. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2626
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle.
For one, It allows inties to avoid the delaying tactics of Dictors dropping bubbles to help their group disengage a pursuing group as one example
And it allows interceptors to ignore bubble-wrapped gates that carebears use to make their system safe. I will also really enjoy hornet gangs of interceptors that can't be held down by bubblers.
However, I still think this mechanic is designed to make nullsec travel safer, which is something I oppose.
Tikitina wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: How exactly does this "move the game forward"? --- Hint: If your answer can be summed up as, it enables safer movement throughout nullsec for interceptors, why are you using an interceptor to begin with when a covops performs that role?
It creates the possibility of new gameplay by breaking some existing, what many consider stagnate, gameplayPlus, the fact that intie pilots will have to account for their new found ability that can prevent them from catching someone who is caught by a bubble while they are not means that this new ability would be a dual edged sword, which is inline with what Eve is about.
I think you are stretching here. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2626
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:26:00 -
[66] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Are you serious? This implementation isn't to create new tactics or "proper operational movement". It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer. I figured you'd be one of the few to rally against making EvE safer and easier!
It doesn't make it safer though. Cloaky nullified T3's exist that are far safer for travel purposes. Carriers, Blops+Blockade Runners, and Jump Freighters are even safer still as those ships, if only considering moving from point A to point B for logistical purposes need never come on grid with another hostile. Ever.
I'll grant you that cloaky nullified t3's are the epidomy of "safe travel", right next to jump logistics. However, the former is expensive, not just in isk price, but in ship utility cost too. The later requires teamwork at the minimum, infrastructure at the maximum, and still has some serious drawbacks.
The drawback of nullified inties is nothing like that of nullified t3's. Apples and Oranges.
Really, as blasphemous as this is, you could do an MWD-Cloak inty and be just as safe as a nullified t3, and safer than a covops. lol at the fit, but I just don't see a good reason to implement nullified ceptors! |
Wandering Deathstriker
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:26:00 -
[67] - Quote
My biggest problem is that my fleet of miner's will now get instantly caught in a mining belt before they can warp out to a pos... and there's nothing i can really do about it.
edit: without having multiple scout alts on top of my hauler and booster. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16687
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Not really... Inty chasing my Vexor. I warp to a celestial to run away, and land in a bubble 100 km's or more off the celestial. The inty lands at zero on the celestial, in a very different place. Yes, I'm in a bubble, but can easily get out of it before the inty can tackle me. GǪeven when you consider the fact that he inty has been burning towards the bubble before you even got there? You're still tackled and you've at best bought yourself a couple of seconds. Oh, and if you're in a Vexor, why are you running away from a frigate?
Quote:Are you serious? This implementation isn't to create new tactics or "proper operational movement". Yes it is. While you're stuck going in and out of and around bubbles, the intys just fly straight through to set up a catch in a different position. You have to develop new delaying tactics as well as new capturing tactics, and the traps you've set up to keep your space safe are no longer as effective (which makes nullsec travel more dangerous in and of itself GÇö even more so when it will now be full of encounters with tacklers).
Wandering Deathstriker wrote:My biggest problem is that my fleet of miner's will now get instantly caught in a mining belt before they can warp out to a pos... and there's nothing i can really do about it. Keep an eye on all your intel tools, maybe? They may be fast, but they're not going to teleport into your belts without you knowing itGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Billy Colorado
Agony Unleashed
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
When I chase to a bubble, I want to land in that bubble with the thing I'm chasing... Didn't see this implication at first. |
James Amril-Kesh
Goonswarm Federation
5805
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
"But, but... travel through 0.0 will become too safe!"
Because it wasn't already. My Youtube Videos Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
|
XavierVE
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
191
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
OP, nice try, but you can't get through the heads of the blob. They're too focused on gate-camping, which this doesn't impact at all. Interceptors have always been immune to gate camps via the absolute ease of gate-crashing.
Often run 6-12 man roams through hostile sov null over the last four years. You run into giant home defense blobs all the time. Currently, you can run away from those blobs using general fleet tactics that have been around forever. Dropping bubbles behind you to slow down your pursuers, bubbling on the jump in to slow down giant blobs.
Now any home defense blob worth it's salt is going to have 3-4 interceptors. Good luck taking a small gang through null, no more defensive bubbles, no more mad dashes away from the giant blob. Interceptors will go through your defensive bubbles without an issue, tackling your ships or forcing you to kill the inty... which causes aggression. Even if you make it to a safe, the gang chasing you then gets ahead of you and you're forced into loggoffski.
This is the single dumbest change they've ever brought into the game in regards to small gang FC's and a tremendous buff to home defense blobs.
The stated reason for this change was to make it so anchoring a giant spam of bubbles around gates doesn't make you 100% safe to PvE in null. So, rather than do the simple approach of making it so you can't ANCHOR a bubble within 40km of a gate, they go and **** up small gang dynamics by making interceptors nullified to bubbles.
Stupid, stupid change. And unfortunately for me, the absolute final straw for this game. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
278
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Are you serious? This implementation isn't to create new tactics or "proper operational movement". It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer. I figured you'd be one of the few to rally against making EvE safer and easier!
It doesn't make it safer though. Cloaky nullified T3's exist that are far safer for travel purposes. Carriers, Blops+Blockade Runners, and Jump Freighters are even safer still as those ships, if only considering moving from point A to point B for logistical purposes need never come on grid with another hostile. Ever. I'll grant you that cloaky nullified t3's are the epidomy of "safe travel", right next to jump logistics. However, the former is expensive, not just in isk price, but in ship utility cost too. The later requires teamwork at the minimum, infrastructure at the maximum, and still has some serious drawbacks. The drawback of nullified inties is nothing like that of nullified t3's. Apples and Oranges. Really, as blasphemous as this is, you could do an MWD-Cloak inty and be just as safe as a nullified t3, and safer than a covops. lol at the fit, but I just don't see a good reason to implement nullified ceptors!
Yes, a noobship cyno alt is the epitome of teamwork. Honestly, aside from cost, there's nothing your MWD-Cloaky inty does better than a cloaky nullified T3. And at least cloaky nullified t3's can sorta do something else for the money. A cloaked inty won't be able to tackle for ****.
XavierVE wrote: And unfortunately for me, the absolute final straw for this game. What will happen to your stuff, if you don't mind my asking? |
i-AA
Cream Pie Carpet Munchers
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
Stfu .. Are you scared now *****???
Gtfo ***** gate camping like a ****** then..
**** off and gtfo |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
806
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:25:00 -
[74] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!! Reason 2: This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer? Reason 3: The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots. At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire. making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd. helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups. Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull. P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?
this will bring much more players to nullsec, and thats a good thing... nullsec is empty, thats why more poeple need to go there, the only one risk averse is you like it seems, you are scared to have more people out there
... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2972
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:33:00 -
[75] - Quote
I didn't read the thread so not sure if this has been mentioned.
CCP can start over-complicating mechanics like they have in the past and in the end have to go back and fix it all over. Or they can use the simple solution.
The simple solution is to get rid of bubbles.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
44
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
As someone said (I forgot who) adapt or die, Or become a forum whiner for life. Blue
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2628
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote: this will bring much more players to nullsec, and thats a good thing... nullsec is empty, thats why more poeple need to go there, the only one risk averse is you like it seems, you are scared to have more people out there
Your assumptions about me are blatantly wrong, as I am not some risk adverse, bubble humping wannabe PvP'er.
Nullsec is empty, and I would LOVE to see more players out and about in the baron wastelands that exist around the (mythical) blue donut. If you think making interceptors able to travel about unmolested is going to get more people into nullsec, you come across as very oblivious to the state of things.
The changes to scanning, hacking, and archaeology sites brought a lot of players to nuulsec. The new exploration ships might get more solo explorers out there. The new deployable structures will have quite a bit of utility for guerrilla fighters too. But if you really want to "populate" nullsec, we need to address Sov mechanics. Ideally with a use it or easily lose it mentality, which is much easier said than implemented. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2628
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:41:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I didn't read the thread so not sure if this has been mentioned. CCP can start over-complicating mechanics like they have in the past and in the end have to go back and fix it all over. Or they can use the simple solution. The simple solution is to get rid of bubbles. Mr Epeen
Oh please god NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bubbles are one of best tactical tools in the game, and removing them is asinine! |
Athelas Loraiel
StarFleet Enterprises Fatal Ascension
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
good idea to have intys resistant to bubbly, maybe add some warp pause only.
after all, they can move out of it rather fast so it wont change much.
as to the drag bubbles, I'd get rid of them too, we need more brawling, less "mechanics usage" |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1014
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 02:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
You're all being silly. Of all the crazy things being thrown out about Rubicon, this is really the least worrisome.
Most of the interceptors were more than fast enough to blow past a gatecamp in the first place, so it doesn't make anything much safer than it already was. It does make chasing a little easier, though. All in all, a good change, at least as long as we make sure they can't fit Cynos anymore, because that would suck. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
877
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 02:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
The risk averse carebears are the gate campers, not the travelers.
The part where you called (some of) them "pro" was ******* priceless.
4/10 for getting the first guy to respond 11 times as many likes as you. Thats hard work. Eve is Real |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4639
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 02:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:The risk averse carebears are the gate campers, not the travelers.
The part where you called (some of) them "pro" was ******* priceless. Heh,... yeah There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4108
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 02:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Wandering Deathstriker wrote:My biggest problem is that my fleet of miner's will now get instantly caught in a mining belt before they can warp out to a pos... and there's nothing i can really do about it. Keep an eye on all your intel tools, maybe? They may be fast, but they're not going to teleport into your belts without you knowing itGǪ
To be fair, now the mining bot will have to cease mining immediately a non-blue enters local. You used to have a guaranteed 30 seconds of leeway, now you'll have about 10 seconds between the capsuleer appearing in local and their interceptor arriving on-grid.
This will make life very interesting, especially since the built-in interdiction nullifier means there is a much higher chance that a hisec care bear can fly out to your mining system unimpeded, take a couple of pot shots, then return home to hisec before their play time for the evening is over.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
861
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 02:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
... null bear tears, best tears.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
30
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 06:31:00 -
[85] - Quote
Screw the ceptors whats are they doing to the Lics! This might all be a lot of tears (justified ) about nothing. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
301
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 06:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:The risk averse carebears are the gate campers, not the travelers.
The part where you called (some of) them "pro" was ******* priceless. Heh,... yeah
True but to an interceptor?!?
Let's get serious. Of all classes of ships that could utilize this style of protection... If you can't get past a gate camp, bubble or otherwise, with an interceptor - either go back to highsec or /salute to a camp that *WAS* awake and paying close attention. Either they did a very good job or you flat out suck at flying that ship.
With the warp speed changes, they already will get a big boost to "intercepting" targets - but "prey" role protection?!?! T3's give up one hell of a lot of potency to fit that sub-system and I see zip-spank "costs" for these tiny speed-demons to now get it... |
Tao Dolcino
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
115
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 07:38:00 -
[87] - Quote
All what can make gatecamping at bottlenecks less effective is a good move. Bottlenecks are what's killing the dynamism of the game. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3445
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 09:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
While I don't know the OP personally, I don't want to seem insulting here. But as one player to another, I have to say: learn to hunt for your food, OK?
Where there are many who claim that people who can mine rocks all day have something wrong with them, and their playstyle is some kind of pox on the game, the same can be said about people who are equally semi-AFK (or on Ritalin) and watching a gate all day just to kill everything that comes through it.
And I know this playstyle, for the rage I have seen from people who lamely orbited the gate and still didn't get the kill is comparable to the rage of a miner getting bumped out of the belt or ganked.
The tears flow all the same. Of course the gate campers have a higher opinion of themselves, based on some notion that PVP is some high-exalted and holy playstyle, but lacking the memo that shipraep on a gate, sometimes waiting an hour for a target, is not impressing on the world any model of greatness (or intelligence for this matter).
We need MORE bubble-resistant ships. The Great Wall of Carebear (bears on both sides, BTW) is obvious, and something is being done about it.
We are also forgetting that on the agressor or pursuit angle of things, a nullifying inty is going to be very dangerous in a pursuit. This is is a ship that can escape it's own bubble camp, overfly a running ship, land at the gate, jump ahead of it, then tackle it on the other side. This is going to be nasty. |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 10:03:00 -
[89] - Quote
I love the idea. Interceptors should be able to intercept ... I guess you're just upset your gate camps won't work anymore. You know, you can always use regular points to scramble them right ...
This whole complaint is just laziness. Seriously, Interceptors used to just burn out of the bubble and jump away anyway. Are you worried you'll now have to put some effort in catching an interceptor? |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
178
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 10:31:00 -
[90] - Quote
I'm not keen on this suggestion for two primary reasons. Firstly it runs (as does the fitting of CovOps cloaks to everything) counter to the drive to force a combattant to commit - a group of 'ceptors could (with this ability) fight in a bubble in certain knowledge that, should things go south they can disengage immediately. It isn't as if burning out of a bubble took very long in the first place, although it also isn't the case that the Interceptor has much margin for error given that their most direct escape route offers the chance of a very low transversal volley. Secondly it significantly reduces the effectiveness of Interdictors which were at one point, with their relatively high speeds, sphere launchers and relatively heavy frigate weight armament, one of the better counters to fast moving interceptors. Of course the Interdictor tends to be relagated to drive-by bubbling these days but I have been involved in some fantastic small Interceptor vs Interdictor chases, the Inties trying to hold point while also trying to avoid both the firepower of the 'dictors and having enough of them in range to make a bubble worth deploying. With the high speed of Interceptors Interdiction Nullification means that the only real counters are either instalock volley damage (which I think everyone can agree is no fun) or other Interceptors - and when the sensible counter to a ship or class is another of that ship or class problems and imbalance develops. |
|
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 10:57:00 -
[91] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:[quote=Tippia][quote=Gizznitt Malikite]How does bubble immunity help the interceptor?
Are you serious? This implementation isn't to create new tactics or "proper operational movement". It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer. I figured you'd be one of the few to rally against making EvE safer and easier!
this change will result in a ton of fleeing fleets losing a ton more stragglers than they do now. interceptors chasing your fleet will now become something to really fear as opposed to the trivially easy to evade as they are now. It will make all sorts of null sec life more dangerous and harder. It is a great change and although it will make ceptors a bit safer they will still die constantly when they tackle stuff as they do now. They have a dangerous nad tricky job in most fights and they deserve to be able to chase down fleeing fleets. After all that is the role of an interceptor....to ....you know intercept stuff,
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16690
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:To be fair, now the mining bot will have to cease mining immediately a non-blue enters local. You used to have a guaranteed 30 seconds of leeway, now you'll have about 10 seconds between the capsuleer appearing in local and their interceptor arriving on-grid.
This will make life very interesting, especially since the built-in interdiction nullifier means there is a much higher chance that a hisec care bear can fly out to your mining system unimpeded, take a couple of pot shots, then return home to hisec before their play time for the evening is over. Like I said, an all around excellent change of mechanics.
Mocam wrote:Let's get serious. [GǪ]
With the warp speed changes, they already will get a big boost to "intercepting" targets - but "prey" role protection?!?! T3's give up one hell of a lot of potency to fit that sub-system and I see zip-spank "costs" for these tiny speed-demons to now get it... And, to remain serious, that's probably the point. After all, T3 ships are meant to provide similar, but always slightly worse, abilities than T2 ships have, only they can do so in combinations that the T2s can never match. The nullifier was something that didn't sit well in that paradigm, so giving interceptors that ability means that we now have a T2 ship that can do it, and a T3 sub that can do it slightly worse (since they're not nearly as fast or agile).
GǪand like you say, at the end of the day, interceptors are probably the ones that will be the least affected by this since their bubble-evasion was already top notch. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Aeronite
Failstar Reloaded
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
Go roam stop camping gates for easy kills |
Feer Truelight
157
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:26:00 -
[94] - Quote
Flamers gonna flame, racists gonna race, Interceptors gonna intercept. EVE Online Fraud Prevention - http://eve-fraud.blogspot.com |
Trit
Q-Tech Solutions
68
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:37:00 -
[95] - Quote
good for goons and noobs and bad for eve = added to patch. Shine on Crazy Nubbins |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2634
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:38:00 -
[96] - Quote
Frankly, there are a lot of disillusioned players posting in this thread:
There are two directions on most gate camps: Those that setup on a gate and wait for players to jump into them and their bubble. Interceptors are almost always able to burn back to gate in these camps, and your deluding yourself if you think you can cold warp away out of the bubbles when ceptors become nullified. It is not hard to bring along a sensor boosted ares or thrasher that can insta-lock any frigate before it warps, ceptors included. Those that setup drag bubbles around a gate. Most gates that are seriously camped are done so regularly, and any solid player gets bookmarks around the gate so they can bypass the bubbles at will. This change makes it much easier for inties to traverse these camps without preparation or intelligent piloting. And what is the benefit we get for dumbing down travel, so inties can ignore the later type of gate camp that is already easy to avoid by competent players? -- You can ignore dictor stop bubbles which are used to slow down fleets? And why is this good thing? In order for that bubble tactic to work, the dictor has to be on gate, with his bubble up, before the inty even hits the warp bubble. If your target has their timing down, or pre-sets up a stop bubble to delay chasers, that means they are thinking ahead and playing strategically. Those plays should be applauded, not gimped by giving inties this bonus.
-- You can ignore bubble wrapped gates to go catch ratters. Frankly, the number of bear operations that bubble wrapped gates in EvE is not very many, so this isn't some majorly applicable situation. Generally speaking, those bears that do bubble wrap their gates are generally blingier operations, but they are also using taking time to protect their operation. Again, their foresight should be somewhat applauded, even if they do run to a POS and hide until you leave.
I don't think this change is at all in the right direction.
Tippia wrote:GǪand like you say, at the end of the day, interceptors are probably the ones that will be the least affected by this since their bubble-evasion was already top notch.
This change simply makes flying an interceptor safer. It is a change to make nullsec travel safer. This is not a good thing, and I'm really shocked your advocating for it Tippia... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16691
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:45:00 -
[97] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change simply makes flying an interceptor safer. So?
Quote:It is a change to make nullsec travel safer. Not with all those mass-murdering unstoppable interceptors flying around, it isn't.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
vextorious
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:54:00 -
[98] - Quote
The OP is pretty dim.
Ill put the gravy on these potatoes for ya.
making interceptors more valuable encourages old bitter vets to fly with younger pilots thus growing eve.
it doesnt matter how many things you list. my one point nullifies, HEHE PUN INTENDED, them all.
Growing your business is the capitalist way
/end thread
|
Fetish McButt
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:57:00 -
[99] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!! Reason 2: This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer? Reason 3: The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots. At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire. making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd. helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups. Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull. P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?
well.. this all sounds to me, that you are concerned, that you are easier to tackle from an belt with your mining barge.
And to your miserable excuses of 0.0 travelling safer, so what, if you cant catch the inty? let the inty go and grab the last BS instead?
0.0 as it is is way too safe for an carebear. This will change that a lot! That is your main reason to hate interdiction nullified inties. As the game is, there is simply no way of tackling and killing and carebear, if he is awake. Only way for a carebear to loose his ship is AWOX / sleep / not caring. Even after this change the carebear have more than enough time to GTFO from the anomalies / belts before the tackle lands, they just need to be alert. They need to play the game actively, not AFK. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2634
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 12:05:00 -
[100] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change simply makes flying an interceptor safer. So? That means flying everything else is less safe, since there's a dedicated tackler flying around and ignoring your defences. 8 ships become insignificantly harder to catch; 200+ ships become much more easier to hunt downGǪ Quote:It is a change to make nullsec travel safer. Not with all those mass-murdering unstoppable interceptors flying around, it isn't.
Why do you fly an inty?
Your are out soloing. Combat inties are great for this, and the taranis is one of my favorite ships. It's been put in its place with the changes to AF's, dessies, and frigate hulls, but it is still a solid ship. Your primary targets here are other interceptors, frigate hulls, dessie hulls, and cruiser hulls. To be honest, most people won't engage anything other than t1 frigates and other interceptors with these. You are skirmishing for a fleet. Fleet inties have the dps of a feather pillow and generally perform the roles of scouting and skirmishing for a larger group. Fast travel. Their ability to power out of bubbles, or power back to gate, combined with their high warp speed and quick align times makes them a great traveling ship. This change makes it so fast travel requires no preparation and is generally safer than ever. This change makes it so skirmishing for a fleet is safer, and you don't have to worry about drag bubble traps to gank your inty before backup arrives.
Catching interceptors in a bubble is a major deal when engaging them, as the distance at which you start the combat is pivotal in the success of the combat, especially when under time constraints because of their backup.
This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16693
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 12:09:00 -
[101] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change makes it so fast travel requires no preparation and is generally safer than ever. This change makes it so skirmishing for a fleet is safer, and you don't have to worry about drag bubble traps to gank your inty before backup arrives. So?
Quote:Catching interceptors in a bubble is a major deal when engaging them GǪand now you'll have to figure out a better way, or space will become very unsafe for you.
Quote:This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP. Not really, no. It just means you have to work a bit harder if you actually want to blow them up.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2634
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 12:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP. Not really, no. It just means you have to work a bit harder if you actually want to blow them up.
I see, just like you have to work a bit harder to catch a nullified t3's. Except they don't travel at 5k m/s with 2.5 s align times. I can always blob them with specialized ships when they enter system, rather than ganking them with a t1 frigate on a drag bubble. Both would generally be a gank anyway, so why not require a few more at the party.
Tippia wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change makes it so fast travel requires no preparation and is generally safer than ever. This change makes it so skirmishing for a fleet is safer, and you don't have to worry about drag bubble traps to gank your inty before backup arrives. So?
WoW... Tippia advocating making EvE safer... Who are you and what have you done with Tippia??
It's easy to ignore the blatant troll posts claiming I'm a nullbear, I just a dirty bubble camper, I just want to protect my mining fleets, etc. But when my points are so easily trivialized and swept aside by your strong reasoning, I suddenly see the futility of my advocacy. QED
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16693
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 12:47:00 -
[103] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I see, just like you have to work a bit harder to catch a nullified t3's. Except they don't travel at 5k m/s with 2.5 s align times. GǪboth of which means that your chance of catching those interceptors won't actually change much.
Quote:WoW... Tippia advocating making EvE GǪmore dangerous on average and requiring more intelligent and versatile combined-arms tactics for both the offensive and the defensive side, yes. Just because your job just got a little harder doesn't mean the game is any safer. In fact, it rather proves that it got less safe for you, and you don't like that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1237
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 12:49:00 -
[104] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Grey Beard wrote:Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
Not empty quoting.
Quoting a not empty quote.
@Op
Deal wiz it ! *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Veritaal
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 12:51:00 -
[105] - Quote
Any inty pilot that's worth anything can deal with bubbles anyway. Either by crashing the gate, or simply overheating their mids and being long gone before you even get a lock.
Id say making them nullified dosen't change too much. If anything, some of the dumber ones won't even try to MWD away, and you'll nab them while they are aligning. |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
48
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 12:57:00 -
[106] - Quote
How stupid is all this bickering? You do realize you can still get regular points on them right? Just fit some sensor boosters and stop complaining.
Besides, like others have said before, anyone who frequently travels certain pipes just uses bookmarks and warps in past your bubbles anyway, you weren't catching these players in the past, and you won't catch them now. |
Totally Wicked'Sucks
Have I Got Moos For You
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 13:05:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Tippia wrote:Wandering Deathstriker wrote:My biggest problem is that my fleet of miner's will now get instantly caught in a mining belt before they can warp out to a pos... and there's nothing i can really do about it. Keep an eye on all your intel tools, maybe? They may be fast, but they're not going to teleport into your belts without you knowing itGǪ To be fair, now the mining bot will have to cease mining immediately a non-blue enters local. You used to have a guaranteed 30 seconds of leeway, now you'll have about 10 seconds between the capsuleer appearing in local and their interceptor arriving on-grid. This will make life very interesting, especially since the built-in interdiction nullifier means there is a much higher chance that a hisec care bear can fly out to your mining system unimpeded, take a couple of pot shots, then return home to hisec before their play time for the evening is over.
Believe it or not, there are actually miners in null who don't bot.
I've read the arguments about using intel and to an extent, this is a valid argument but intel isn't always reliable and from what I can gather, after the proposed changes it will be possible for an interceptor to warp across a 40au system in around 6 seconds.
I can't vouch for the accuracy of this estimate, but if it's true, that would mean a hulk mining in an 'anom' belt would be a very easy target. It wouldn't matter if it was aligned, it wouldn't matter if it warped to 'safety' the instant a bogey appeared in local.. the chances of survival would plummet. I've had a few narrow escapes to nullified T3 ships even without the proposed changes.
Weighing up the options, miners could switch to skiffs to try and get faster aligns/warps but it could still make for some close encounters and it would also cut the production. Going further down this route, we could switch to using ventures but the drop off in production would be very telling.
It's easy to say so what and suck it up, but mining is one of the least profitable pursuits in Eve as it is and we'd all like to be able to cover the cost of our accounts with plex bought ingame if we could wouldn't we?
It wasn't so long ago that we were told that changes were being made to encourage more people to mine in null sec and some players have taken the opportunity. Those same players are now being given the middle digit by CCP and the only advice seems to be suck it up/adapt.
Weighing the options for myself personally, I think my best option is to just stop mining and go do something else. I actually quite enjoy mining and will miss it but needs must I suppose. Despite being a juicy target for gankers and opportunists looking for easy kills to pad their killboards with, I've persevered with my mining career. At points, it's felt like I've been tied to a tree, just waiting for a dog to come along and p1ss up my leg... with the proposed changes, it would be more like being buried up to my neck in sand waiting to be p1ssed on, surrounded by signposts saying 'p1ss here'. ;)
I realise that a lot of players reading this will probably be revelling in my supposed tears and to those players I'd say go ahead and enjoy them if that's how you get your kicks. One quick word of caution though, those carebear tears might not taste quite so sweet if more 'career' miners like myself take the decision to just stop mining too. If the flow of ores for production dries up and the prices of ships/modules go through the roof as a result, I could quite easily see a few more tears. ;)
With the nerf to offgrid boosts that have already happened and CCP apparently looking at tinkering with the rorqual (presumably to nerf offgrid mining boosts as well) it's probably an ideal time to get out of mining anyway.
To those miners who are willing to try and adapt keep being pissed on, I offer my best wishes and I hope you succeed but tbh, I don't know why CCP doesn't just do away with mining as a concept and force everyone to get their ores from salvage instead. Doing that would probably sadden some players (including those padding their killboards) but at least it'd be an open and honest action instead of the tinkering to try and maximise their profits by cutting ingame income streams and steering players to buy plex to fund everything from CCP or their 'partners'.
Wow... I'm getting more and more cynical as time goes by... maybe it's just because I'm getting older, but maybe Eve is starting to rub off on me. :)
|
Kuga
Viziam Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 13:14:00 -
[108] - Quote
Just a quick note for all the people who say it isn't a problem, they should fit their own interceptors with scrams: an interceptor can not be targeted before entering warp at a gate (at least a half-decenty fitted one can't).
The change will essentially mean that interceptors have free roam of null sec (unless the unllikely event that they encounter a smart bomber). |
Fetish McButt
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 13:33:00 -
[109] - Quote
Totally Wicked'Sucks wrote:I can't vouch for the accuracy of this estimate, but if it's true, that would mean a hulk mining in an 'anom' belt would be a very easy target. It wouldn't matter if it was aligned, it wouldn't matter if it warped to 'safety' the instant a bogey appeared in local.. the chances of survival would plummet. I've had a few narrow escapes to nullified T3 ships even without the proposed changes.
err.. Just to give you some facts.
- bogey entering local. He appears in your local list about 3-10 seconds before heself have loaded grid. Depending on the bogeys computer. - Use the dirscan to find juicy targets. With superhuman good luck this is done in 10 seconds - Don't know about the upcoming changes actual times to warping, so I give you the present numbers. Selecting the anom to warp to and click warp 1-2 seconds, accelerating to warp 8 seconds, warpi itself XXX seconds and decelerating from warp tunnel 20 seconds - Burning to tacklerange of target 0-10 seconds
So as it is now it is pretty much impossible to get into system and tackle a miner / ratter in less than 42 seconds + the actual warp. 42 seconds time to look into local, pull your drones, align out and gtfo. 42 seconds. and that did not include the actual warptunnel time at all and was with the most optimistic numbers possible. More realistic is 1 minute to 1min 30seconds.
So after the patch you pretty much take the 28 seconds of accelerating and decelerating and change it to ... lets give a guess of 5 seconds. So stilla fter patch you have time 19 seconds without the actual warptunnel time. 19 seconds is tight I know, but still doable., As I stated in a post earlier, this just means you haveto be awake and not semi AFK. And even now the more realistic number of time you have to gtfo lies between 40 seconds and 1 minute. |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
334
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:04:00 -
[110] - Quote
Fetish McButt wrote:Totally Wicked'Sucks wrote:I can't vouch for the accuracy of this estimate, but if it's true, that would mean a hulk mining in an 'anom' belt would be a very easy target. It wouldn't matter if it was aligned, it wouldn't matter if it warped to 'safety' the instant a bogey appeared in local.. the chances of survival would plummet. I've had a few narrow escapes to nullified T3 ships even without the proposed changes.
err.. Just to give you some facts. - bogey entering local. He appears in your local list about 3-10 seconds before heself have loaded grid. Depending on the bogeys computer. - Use the dirscan to find juicy targets. With superhuman good luck this is done in 10 seconds - Don't know about the upcoming changes actual times to warping, so I give you the present numbers. Selecting the anom to warp to and click warp 1-2 seconds, accelerating to warp 8 seconds, warpi itself XXX seconds and decelerating from warp tunnel 20 seconds - Burning to tacklerange of target 0-10 seconds So as it is now it is pretty much impossible to get into system and tackle a miner / ratter in less than 42 seconds + the actual warp. 42 seconds time to look into local, pull your drones, align out and gtfo. 42 seconds. and that did not include the actual warptunnel time at all and was with the most optimistic numbers possible. More realistic is 1 minute to 1min 30seconds. So after the patch you pretty much take the 28 seconds of accelerating and decelerating and change it to ... lets give a guess of 5 seconds. So stilla fter patch you have time 19 seconds without the actual warptunnel time. 19 seconds is tight I know, but still doable., As I stated in a post earlier, this just means you haveto be awake and not semi AFK. And even now the more realistic number of time you have to gtfo lies between 40 seconds and 1 minute.
lol after the proposed changes if it took me 19 secs to get to a mining site in an inty i would give up and train for a mining ship ! :P |
|
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
334
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:08:00 -
[111] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:How stupid is all this bickering? You do realize you can still get regular points on them right? Just fit some sensor boosters and stop complaining.
Besides, like others have said before, anyone who frequently travels certain pipes just uses bookmarks and warps in past your bubbles anyway, you weren't catching these players in the past, and you won't catch them now.
So remove a way of tactically dealing with them and revert to the old insta-locking **** ? |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1530
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:14:00 -
[112] - Quote
IDK, maybe you should use....um....interceptors to intercept the interceptors? Don't ban me, bro! |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
331
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:33:00 -
[113] - Quote
Wow, bad thread. This kind of shake-up is exactly what's needed.
Also my first thought upon seeing this was "think of all those juicy travel fits warping to zero mmmm SB BS"
Gonna have to go all cliche here and say Adapt or Die. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Karrl Tian
Ice Patrol
211
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:58:00 -
[114] - Quote
Bubble camper tears.....best tears. |
Totally Wicked'Sucks
Have I Got Moos For You
3
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 15:31:00 -
[115] - Quote
Fetish McButt wrote:Totally Wicked'Sucks wrote:I can't vouch for the accuracy of this estimate, but if it's true, that would mean a hulk mining in an 'anom' belt would be a very easy target. It wouldn't matter if it was aligned, it wouldn't matter if it warped to 'safety' the instant a bogey appeared in local.. the chances of survival would plummet. I've had a few narrow escapes to nullified T3 ships even without the proposed changes.
err.. Just to give you some facts. - bogey entering local. He appears in your local list about 3-10 seconds before heself have loaded grid. Depending on the bogeys computer. - Use the dirscan to find juicy targets. With superhuman good luck this is done in 10 seconds - Don't know about the upcoming changes actual times to warping, so I give you the present numbers. Selecting the anom to warp to and click warp 1-2 seconds, accelerating to warp 8 seconds, warpi itself XXX seconds and decelerating from warp tunnel 20 seconds - Burning to tacklerange of target 0-10 seconds So as it is now it is pretty much impossible to get into system and tackle a miner / ratter in less than 42 seconds + the actual warp. 42 seconds time to look into local, pull your drones, align out and gtfo. 42 seconds. and that did not include the actual warptunnel time at all and was with the most optimistic numbers possible. More realistic is 1 minute to 1min 30seconds. So after the patch you pretty much take the 28 seconds of accelerating and decelerating and change it to ... lets give a guess of 5 seconds. So stilla fter patch you have time 19 seconds without the actual warptunnel time. 19 seconds is tight I know, but still doable., As I stated in a post earlier, this just means you haveto be awake and not semi AFK. And even now the more realistic number of time you have to gtfo lies between 40 seconds and 1 minute.
Thanks for trying to be helpful but even as things stand at present, I've had bogies land ongrid before my warp kicked in so I'm not sure your numbers add up.
Also, a lot of them warp straight to anoms in the hope of catching someone without even bothering to scan.
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2636
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 16:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
Totally Wicked'Sucks wrote:Fetish McButt wrote: So after the patch you pretty much take the 28 seconds of accelerating and decelerating and change it to ... lets give a guess of 5 seconds. So stilla fter patch you have time 19 seconds without the actual warptunnel time. 19 seconds is tight I know, but still doable., As I stated in a post earlier, this just means you haveto be awake and not semi AFK. And even now the more realistic number of time you have to gtfo lies between 40 seconds and 1 minute.
Thanks for trying to be helpful but even as things stand at present, I've had bogies land ongrid before my warp kicked in so I'm not sure your numbers add up. Also, a lot of them warp straight to anoms in the hope of catching someone without even bothering to scan.
If you know where to warp, you can initiate a warp to a bookmark before you even load grid. Depending on warp distance, this can put you on grid with a target within 10-25 seconds. Given reaction times, this means you can easily be in danger. With the changes to inty acceleration (or and many frigs for that matter), this may shave some considerable time off.
Realistically though, there are many techniques you can use to make ratting/mining fairly safe.
Bubble wrap gates. Set up drag/catch bubbles in your anom to stop ships landing near you, don't warp to zero in the anom/belt, use scouts in surrounding systems, etc, etc, etc. Nullified interceptors would bypass some of these defense techniques, which is interesting, but it also means they get free roam through nullsec for the most part, which is lame as hell.
|
Birgit Prinz
Brutaz Wit Attitudes
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 16:11:00 -
[117] - Quote
This thread reads like the OP really wanted to be mad about something and settled for this non-issue. Crying about bubble camps being too hard because of nullified frigates is pretty funny. The point regarding landing in a bubble with your target is fair, but you could take your own advice and bounce from a perch to the bubble instead of warping to 0 at the celestial. Maybe you could use a different ship for chasing people into bubbles. Campers are known for their tactical nous and will surely find a workable solution.
This change is awesome, and I'm not saying that because it makes travel too safe. Only poor people use gates anyway. |
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 16:21:00 -
[118] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Ribeye Jaksom wrote:They were ALREADY nearly impossible to catch WITHOUT bubble immunity. If this change goes through, they will be untouchable. Its ridiculous anyone thinks this is a good idea.
Well now you're just full of ****. Interceptors are the T2 ships that die the most in Eve, and always have been. I suppose none of those dead interceptors were "caught."
Hey numbnuts, they didn't give them bubble immunity yet. |
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 19:47:00 -
[119] - Quote
@OP
I'm going to enjoy being able to fly right into the centre of your world in something very fast and difficult to catch, just to annoy you. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3448
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:46:00 -
[120] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:IDK, maybe you should use....um....interceptors to intercept the interceptors?
But who is going to intercept the interceptors that are intercepting the interceptors? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16702
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:IDK, maybe you should use....um....interceptors to intercept the interceptors? But who is going to intercept the interceptors that are intercepting the interceptors? RSB:ed Tornadoes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
595
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:58:00 -
[122] - Quote
Just adapt like everyone had to after WTZ entered the game. I'm sure someone will figure out a way to combat them, and you can copy them OP as it doesn't look as if you really want to adapt. You can either adapt, or die. Has always been this way in EVE, and I hope it always will be. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
595
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 21:00:00 -
[123] - Quote
Stupid double post. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
Axe Coldon
Coldon Enterprises Axion Bionics
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 21:02:00 -
[124] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!! Reason 2: This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer? Reason 3: The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots. At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire. making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd. helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups. Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull. P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?
I agree and it has nothing to do with gate camps. It gives way too much power to a cheap ship that doesn't take much skills. I am all for helping the new guys but this is over the top.
|
Axe Coldon
Coldon Enterprises Axion Bionics
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 21:14:00 -
[125] - Quote
Totally Wicked'Sucks wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Tippia wrote:Wandering Deathstriker wrote:My biggest problem is that my fleet of miner's will now get instantly caught in a mining belt before they can warp out to a pos... and there's nothing i can really do about it. Keep an eye on all your intel tools, maybe? They may be fast, but they're not going to teleport into your belts without you knowing itGǪ To be fair, now the mining bot will have to cease mining immediately a non-blue enters local. You used to have a guaranteed 30 seconds of leeway, now you'll have about 10 seconds between the capsuleer appearing in local and their interceptor arriving on-grid. This will make life very interesting, especially since the built-in interdiction nullifier means there is a much higher chance that a hisec care bear can fly out to your mining system unimpeded, take a couple of pot shots, then return home to hisec before their play time for the evening is over. Believe it or not, there are actually miners in null who don't bot. I've read the arguments about using intel and to an extent, this is a valid argument but intel isn't always reliable and from what I can gather, after the proposed changes it will be possible for an interceptor to warp across a 40au system in around 6 seconds. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this estimate, but if it's true, that would mean a hulk mining in an 'anom' belt would be a very easy target. It wouldn't matter if it was aligned, it wouldn't matter if it warped to 'safety' the instant a bogey appeared in local.. the chances of survival would plummet. I've had a few narrow escapes to nullified T3 ships even without the proposed changes. Weighing up the options, miners could switch to skiffs to try and get faster aligns/warps but it could still make for some close encounters and it would also cut the production. Going further down this route, we could switch to using ventures but the drop off in production would be very telling. It's easy to say so what and suck it up, but mining is one of the least profitable pursuits in Eve as it is and we'd all like to be able to cover the cost of our accounts with plex bought ingame if we could wouldn't we? It wasn't so long ago that we were told that changes were being made to encourage more people to mine in null sec and some players have taken the opportunity. Those same players are now being given the middle digit by CCP and the only advice seems to be suck it up/adapt. Weighing the options for myself personally, I think my best option is to just stop mining and go do something else. I actually quite enjoy mining and will miss it but needs must I suppose. Despite being a juicy target for gankers and opportunists looking for easy kills to pad their killboards with, I've persevered with my mining career. At points, it's felt like I've been tied to a tree, just waiting for a dog to come along and p1ss up my leg... with the proposed changes, it would be more like being buried up to my neck in sand waiting to be p1ssed on, surrounded by signposts saying 'p1ss here'. ;) I realise that a lot of players reading this will probably be revelling in my supposed tears and to those players I'd say go ahead and enjoy them if that's how you get your kicks. One quick word of caution though, those carebear tears might not taste quite so sweet if more 'career' miners like myself take the decision to just stop mining too. If the flow of ores for production dries up and the prices of ships/modules go through the roof as a result, I could quite easily see a few more tears. ;) With the nerf to offgrid boosts that have already happened and CCP apparently looking at tinkering with the rorqual (presumably to nerf offgrid mining boosts as well) it's probably an ideal time to get out of mining anyway. To those miners who are willing to try and adapt keep being pissed on, I offer my best wishes and I hope you succeed but tbh, I don't know why CCP doesn't just do away with mining as a concept and force everyone to get their ores from salvage instead. Doing that would probably sadden some players (including those padding their killboards) but at least it'd be an open and honest action instead of the tinkering to try and maximise their profits by cutting ingame income streams and steering players to buy plex to fund everything from CCP or their 'partners'. Wow... I'm getting more and more cynical as time goes by... maybe it's just because I'm getting older, but maybe Eve is starting to rub off on me. :)
As a long time miner I agree also. Also a career miner (mined non-stop since 08). ALready the biggest threat to me is the fast tackle frigate. The only safety I have is they have to mwd out of the gate bubbles 1st. Take that away and I don't see I will have a chance. But being hardcore...I will mine till it becomes not possible/profitable. I wont mine in Vultures. Not an option for a serious Null miner.
I worry ccp is going to crazy over the PVP kill everyone big war stuff. Yeah its fun and exciting and makes good press and brings people into the game. but at the end of the day PVP'ers are fickle bore easy and move on to the next game. Eve is a balance between all the many facets of the game. They need to take care not to ruin that balance or it will ruin the game and eve will die.
If you want to introduce a nullified tackle frigate it needs to be expensive as a balance. At least 1/2 the cost of a t3. Or give us better tools to defend ourselves. An exhumer with guns or immune to electronic warfare as an option or something. A T3 miner. something. |
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 21:15:00 -
[126] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: EvE's
Disrespecting the game. Post and ideas invalid. Move along, people.
Thank you.
Sol
The Savior of EVE https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=205546&find=unread |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1023
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 21:31:00 -
[127] - Quote
Quote:As a long time miner I agree also. Also a career miner (mined non-stop since 08). ALready the biggest threat to me is the fast tackle frigate. The only safety I have is they have to mwd out of the gate bubbles 1st. Take that away and I don't see I will have a chance. But being hardcore...I will mine till it becomes not possible/profitable. I wont mine in Ventures. Not an option for a serious Null miner.
I worry ccp is going to crazy over the PVP kill everyone big war stuff. Yeah its fun and exciting and makes good press and brings people into the game. but at the end of the day PVP'ers are fickle bore easy and move on to the next game. Eve is a balance between all the many facets of the game. They need to take care not to ruin that balance or it will ruin the game and eve will die.
If you want to introduce a nullified tackle frigate it needs to be expensive as a balance. At least 1/2 the cost of a t3. Or give us better tools to defend ourselves. An exhumer with guns or immune to electronic warfare as an option or something. A T3 miner. something.
Your first paragraph shows a great deal of dedication to what is undoubtedly the most boring activity in the game. I fail to understand this myself. I'd rather chop off my left pinky finger than mine all the time.
Your second paragraph... you're way off base. Your chosen profession isn't what brings people into this game, and it's not why they stay. And I do agree that the overall balance of the game is important. For a long time it's been too skewed toward safety, and it's about time some conflict is reintroduced. And your last sentence is the typical "I'll quit!" statement spouted off by far too many carebears when their position as the lowest rung on the ladder is demonstrated to them.
And no. It's about time a nullified vessel that doesn't cost a PLEX worth of money is introduced. Or half a plex, or whatever. It's quite likely that interceptors will be raised in overall price for materials, but look how well that worked with some of the recent tiericide after all.
You already got your better tools. The barge/exhumer buff was pretty much the start of all of this. The rest of the game is just getting to catch up after all this time. And about time it is. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9158
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 21:36:00 -
[128] - Quote
nullified anything is a stupid idea, including nullified T3s Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 23:20:00 -
[129] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sarcasm
Your first paragraph shows a great deal of dedication to what is undoubtedly the most boring activity in the game. I fail to understand this myself. I'd rather chop off my left pinky finger than mine all the time. Your second paragraph... you're way off base. Your chosen profession isn't what brings people into this game, and it's not why they stay. And I do agree that the overall balance of the game is important. For a long time it's been too skewed toward safety, and it's about time some conflict is reintroduced. And your last sentence is the typical "I'll quit!" statement spouted off by far too many carebears when their position as the lowest rung on the ladder is demonstrated to them. And no. It's about time a nullified vessel that doesn't cost a PLEX worth of money is introduced. Or half a plex, or whatever. It's quite likely that interceptors will be raised in overall price for materials, but look how well that worked with some of the recent tiericide after all. You already got your better tools. The barge/exhumer buff was pretty much the start of all of this. The rest of the game is just getting to catch up after all this time. And about time it is.
It's beyond him.
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2637
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 01:00:00 -
[130] - Quote
Andski wrote:nullified anything is a stupid idea, including nullified T3s
QFT!
|
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1026
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 01:10:00 -
[131] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sarcasm
Your first paragraph shows a great deal of dedication to what is undoubtedly the most boring activity in the game. I fail to understand this myself. I'd rather chop off my left pinky finger than mine all the time. Your second paragraph... you're way off base. Your chosen profession isn't what brings people into this game, and it's not why they stay. And I do agree that the overall balance of the game is important. For a long time it's been too skewed toward safety, and it's about time some conflict is reintroduced. And your last sentence is the typical "I'll quit!" statement spouted off by far too many carebears when their position as the lowest rung on the ladder is demonstrated to them. And no. It's about time a nullified vessel that doesn't cost a PLEX worth of money is introduced. Or half a plex, or whatever. It's quite likely that interceptors will be raised in overall price for materials, but look how well that worked with some of the recent tiericide after all. You already got your better tools. The barge/exhumer buff was pretty much the start of all of this. The rest of the game is just getting to catch up after all this time. And about time it is.
It's beyond him.
If that was a troll, it was a good one. Yours? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 01:46:00 -
[132] - Quote
I don't know why people think bubbles should be removed from the game and more hulls should be bubble immune. Seriously, bubbles aren't hard to avoid when travelling through Nullsec. As a matter of fact, I think it's hard to be caught out with them.
At first I only saw the benefits of interdiction nullified inites, but Gizznit has raised a few concerns about the new mechanic that made me question.... do we really "need" bubble immune Inties?
I guess if it doesn't work out as intended, CCP can always revert the changes. |
Operative X10-4
Sepultura.
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 03:37:00 -
[133] - Quote
Agreed, thats a FAIL move, interdiction nullifier ceptor is something very stupid.. A good ceptor pilot that knows to manual flight and keep tranversal is almost unstoppable. When they fall into bubbles is the only chance you have to kill one... even this cant stop a ceptor pilot. When I'm flying ceptors I have no trouble in staying alive with enemys in the same grid, and I jump in bubbles with enemys without problems. Now people will get expensive modules and jump into those stupid ceptors and warp straight from gate to gate in null sec, thats ridiculous. CCP do not mess with our gameplay, flying safe is for High sec and those carebears that lives there, we are another breed of people, period. FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY. |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
316
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 03:40:00 -
[134] - Quote
I don't know if it's a good idea or bad, but I'm totally looking forward to touring every system in the EVE universe. Bokononist
-á |
Operative X10-4
Sepultura.
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 03:50:00 -
[135] - Quote
I would like to add that the only places you can really force some one to fight are in gates and in bubbles, non consensual fights. Adding more nullifier things is a bad move for pvp, even T3 shouldnt be able to use nullifier modules. FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
601
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:11:00 -
[136] - Quote
"I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "
so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?
also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs
I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:33:00 -
[137] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:"I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "
so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?
also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs
I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions.
What about the lazy pilots who think they should be able to avoid every gatecamp? |
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
156
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:37:00 -
[138] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:"I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "
so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?
also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs
I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions. What about the lazy pilots who think they should be able to avoid every gatecamp?
They are not lazy, they are moving from gate to gate unlike the gatecamp |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:45:00 -
[139] - Quote
Quote:They are not lazy, they are moving from gate to gate unlike the gatecamp
Oh so because they are moving around they should be able to breeze past the people guarding their empires boarders...
No. They are just as lazy as the people who think gatecamps should catch everyone. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3448
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:50:00 -
[140] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Quote:They are not lazy, they are moving from gate to gate unlike the gatecamp Oh so because they are moving around they should be able to breeze past the people guarding their empires boarders... No. They are just as lazy as the people who think gatecamps should catch everyone.
"Boarders"
Bet that's not a typo |
|
TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:"I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "
so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?
also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs
I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions. What about the lazy pilots who think they should be able to avoid every gatecamp?
Speaking of laziness, a good gatecamp can catch nullified cloaked ships too GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:57:00 -
[142] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:baltec1 wrote:Quote:They are not lazy, they are moving from gate to gate unlike the gatecamp Oh so because they are moving around they should be able to breeze past the people guarding their empires boarders... No. They are just as lazy as the people who think gatecamps should catch everyone. "Boarders" Bet that's not a typo
welcome to EC-, now roll em down. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 06:58:00 -
[143] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:"I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "
so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?
also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs
I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions. What about the lazy pilots who think they should be able to avoid every gatecamp? Speaking of laziness, a good gatecamp can catch nullified cloaked ships too
Only the bad ones. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:02:00 -
[144] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:"I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "
so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?
also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs
I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions. What about the lazy pilots who think they should be able to avoid every gatecamp? Speaking of laziness, a good gatecamp can catch nullified cloaked ships too Only the bad ones.
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?! GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:12:00 -
[145] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good.
Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade. |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:14:00 -
[146] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: wah wah, wah wah wah wah I'm in yer system, passing yer gate camp. Let the dominance of the afk cloaked interceptor with cyno begin!!!! Bokononist
-á |
TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:22:00 -
[147] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good. Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade.
Can you be more specific? I was in several nullsec gatecamps and a lot of nullified T3s were killed. Agile covops were killed by smartbombs. I dont see a point in this outrage for nullified ceptors. Disco BSes can deal with them easily.
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:26:00 -
[148] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good. Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade. Can you be more specific? I was in several nullsec gatecamps and a lot of nullified T3s were killed. Agile covops were killed by smartbombs. I dont see a point in this outrage for nullified ceptors. Disco BSes can deal with them easily.
You would need a large fleet of disco domi to cover a regional gate. As for the T3, you must be finding the dumbest T3 pilots in the galaxy. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2628
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:29:00 -
[149] - Quote
No... I think nullified interceptors make sense. Why not, right? Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec. Cloaky nullified T3 can't be caught at all... I mean I've been complaining about uncatchable ships for as long as I can remember and nobody cares.
If the player base can't get behind making everything have a weakness, making everything possibly catchable, as a fundamental and foundational concept in the game, then I don't see why they just don't remove interdiction spheres and bubbles from the game. Suck it, pods.
|
TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:36:00 -
[150] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good. Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade. Can you be more specific? I was in several nullsec gatecamps and a lot of nullified T3s were killed. Agile covops were killed by smartbombs. I dont see a point in this outrage for nullified ceptors. Disco BSes can deal with them easily. You would need a large fleet of disco domi to cover a regional gate. As for the T3, you must be finding the dumbest T3 pilots in the galaxy.
Yes and that's exactly my point. There are bad pilots and there are good pilots. The bad ones should be your prey, the good ones should have a chance to pass by. if you want to catch them you need more effort, like large fleet of disco BS. But please dont demand to catch every single ship. You can count claky nullified ships in EVE by fingers of one hand, they are not majority ships and also they are lacking in dps and above all they are not invulnerable, they are just hard to catch. Null sec is already empty (besides station and outpost systems) By removing or nerfing nullified ships, you will make it even more emptier. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
|
TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:42:00 -
[151] - Quote
Gogela wrote: Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec.
Check out the Rancer and Negative Ten KB and you will find that BRs are not so "uncatchable".
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3448
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 07:59:00 -
[152] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good. Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade. Intercepters equally can be in warp before you can move the mouse to the overview to target it. A good cepter pilot can get through most camps as it is, come winter only the very bad will be getting caught. Great for getting into those ratting/mining deadend systems with 30+ bubbles on the gate but equally good for getting cynos in, scouts past fleets and transporting low volume high isk cargo for little risk. This change will most likely cause a good number of balance issues although granted not nearly as many issues as cloaky nullified ships.
I don't know man, I've seen some very sloppy gate camping. Yet they still killed ships because of bubbles. The same argument you are making against a cloaky nullifying ship can be made against even having bubbles in the first place.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:06:00 -
[153] - Quote
Quote:
Yes and that's exactly my point. There are bad pilots and there are good pilots. The bad ones should be your prey, the good ones should have a chance to pass by. if you want to catch them you need more effort, like large fleet of disco BS. But please dont demand to catch every single ship. You can count claky nullified ships in EVE by fingers of one hand, they are not majority ships and also they are lacking in dps and above all they are not invulnerable, they are just hard to catch. Null sec is already empty (besides station and outpost systems) By removing or nerfing nullified ships, you will make it even more emptier.
EDIT: btw you can find t3 pilots (the stupid ones) in npc null more often than in player null. And lowsec is full of naive pilots.
If you look back you will see I also said gate camps shouldn't catch everything that tries to get by. It works both ways.
The number of nullified T3 is huge out there and with good reason as unless you are an idiot you will not get stopped by anything. Giving cepters nulifiers will likely cause as many issues. I would rather see nuli used on ships cruiser sized but with no cov ops cloak. The cepters abilities in tackling would be a better option. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:10:00 -
[154] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
So? there are good pilots of nullified cloaky ships and there are the bad ones. Why are you demanding to catch EVERY single ship? Dont you think that this is exactly " I WANT ALWAYS WIN" button?!
The issue is that a even a sloppy cloaky nullified pilot is impossible to stop. A cov ops pilot stands a chance of being caught even if they are very good. Cloaky Nulli ships are just too effective at avoiding every kind of blocade. Intercepters equally can be in warp before you can move the mouse to the overview to target it. A good cepter pilot can get through most camps as it is, come winter only the very bad will be getting caught. Great for getting into those ratting/mining deadend systems with 30+ bubbles on the gate but equally good for getting cynos in, scouts past fleets and transporting low volume high isk cargo for little risk. This change will most likely cause a good number of balance issues although granted not nearly as many issues as cloaky nullified ships. I don't know man, I've seen some very sloppy gate camping. Yet they still killed ships because of bubbles. The same argument you are making against a cloaky nullifying ship can be made against even having bubbles in the first place. If gate camps were as effective as a cloaky nullified T3 then nothing would make it past them. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:21:00 -
[155] - Quote
QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted? |
Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1147
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:26:00 -
[156] - Quote
so they just gave the most frail combat-worthy ship class in the game a means of escaping bubbles. I mean, the only thing that dies more than interceptors in this game is pods, and I'm not even sure about this statement.... [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:26:00 -
[157] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted?
Those T3 pilots are terrible and dont click on their cloak quickly enough or move too soon and cant activate it. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:27:00 -
[158] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted? Those T3 pilots are terrible and dont click on their cloak quickly enough or move too soon and cant activate it. There are no true Scotsmen.
Edit: In case you don't get it.
Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they weren't good cloaky nullified T3's." |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted? Those T3 pilots are terrible and dont click on their cloak quickly enough or move too soon and cant activate it. There are no true Scotsmen.Edit: In case you don't get it. Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp" Person A: "Then they weren's good cloaky nullified T3's."
Like everything there is always one moron who can mess it up. For example the waterproof Iphone update.
|
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:41:00 -
[160] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Like everything there is always one moron who can mess it up. For example the waterproof Iphone update.
Again, you're just repeating the same exact ad hoc fallacy.
Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were morons." |
|
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:55:00 -
[161] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Like everything there is always one moron who can mess it up. For example the waterproof Iphone update.
Again, you're just repeating the same exact ad hoc fallacy. Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were morons."
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship. |
Aeana K
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 08:59:00 -
[162] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[......] It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer.
True. But nullsec is way too safe for its residens, with all these bubble traps. This change makes null a bit more harder for them.
It is amazing that you do not want to make null easier for non-nulls, but you want it to be still as much easy as possible for you...
Null sec should be the same dangerous for nulls and non-nulls in my opinion. And this change is in that direction. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:01:00 -
[163] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies.
Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's regularly, that is fact not in dispute. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:07:00 -
[164] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies. Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's, that is fact not in dispute.
They only reason sebo ships lock them is because you are preying on highsec bears. They move before the cooldown is finished ontheir cloak or do not hit their cloak quickly enough.
As I said, this game should not be balanced around bad players. If it was then things like boomerang would not have been nerfed. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:10:00 -
[165] - Quote
Aeana K wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[......] It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer.
True. But nullsec is way too safe for its residens, with all these bubble traps. This change makes null a bit more harder for them. It is amazing that you do not want to make null easier for non-nulls, but you want it to be still as much easy as possible for you... Null sec should be the same dangerous for nulls and non-nulls in my opinion. And this change is in that direction.
We infact think this change is going to make null too safe for some people. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:12:00 -
[166] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies. Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's, that is fact not in dispute. They only reason sebo ships lock them is because you are preying on highsec bears. They move before the cooldown is finished ontheir cloak or do not hit their cloak quickly enough. As I said, this game should not be balanced around bad players. If it was then things like boomerang would not have been nerfed.
Again, with the same exact ad hoc fallacy. Do you really have no better arguments to present? Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were highsec bears/bad players."
Present facts or quit your moaning. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:15:00 -
[167] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:QQ we can't make our systems safe with bubbles alone. Cry some more.
For some reason cloaky nullified T3's die to remote seboed camps in lowsec often enough. Maybe because the locals adapted?
This is an excelent point. Sorry baltec but your statements are just vague. Your "uncatcheable skilled T3s pilots" are catcheable. There are already tools for that. I saw many t3s that have been killed in lowsec gatecamps. They are using trash around the gates (like wrecks, cans, probes or simply orbiting drones) so cloaky ships cannot cloak during align. They are using smartbombs to decloak aligning ship or they are using remote sensor boosted ships so they can lock ships almost instantly. And guess what. They cannot use bubbles. And if you have trouble to catch t3 pilots with excelent flying skills then you just need gatecamp with excelent pilots and gatecamp setup also. Not just sloppy pilots and buble with "Turn ON" button. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:21:00 -
[168] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Still doesnt change the fact that these ships are impossible to catch in most peoples hands. These two subsystems should never have been allowed on the same ship.
I see no facts presented by you at all, only unsupported generalizations and repeated use of fallacies. Remote sebo'd ships catch nullified T3's, that is fact not in dispute. They only reason sebo ships lock them is because you are preying on highsec bears. They move before the cooldown is finished ontheir cloak or do not hit their cloak quickly enough. As I said, this game should not be balanced around bad players. If it was then things like boomerang would not have been nerfed. Again, with the same exact ad hoc fallacy. Do you really have no better arguments to present? Person A: "No cloaky nullified T3 dies to gatecamps." Person B: "Those cloaky nullified T3's died to a gatecamp." Person A: "Then they were highsec bears/bad players." Present facts or quit your moaning.
I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:27:00 -
[169] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them.
Just because your gatecamps ignore T3's does not mean all gatecamps ignore T3's. That's called a fallacy of composition.
Cloaky nullified T3's get caught by remote sebo'd camps. Fact. Refute it without resorting to logical fallacies, please. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:41:00 -
[170] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them.
Just because your gatecamps ignore T3's does not mean all gatecamps ignore T3's. That's called a fallacy of composition. Cloaky nullified T3's get caught by remote sebo'd camps. Fact. Refute it without resorting to logical fallacies, please.
And I have told you how those sebo camps are doing it.
Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine. You ignore the fact that these are the only ships that are invincible when flown right and demand I post evidence that is impossible to collect while providing none yourself. This seems to be a new recuring tactic of the bears desperate to keep the game imbalances that benefit them.
In every war we have fought in the last year I cannot recall losing a single T3 booster to a camp. |
|
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:51:00 -
[171] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: I just described how you are catching them.
There is a reason why just about every gatecamp/roam/fleet ignores T3s that land on a gate or jump through. Why do you think big fleets always sent their T3 bonus ships into system first dispite there being muliple full fleets on the gate?
Its because the enemy couldn't stop them.
Just because your gatecamps ignore T3's does not mean all gatecamps ignore T3's. That's called a fallacy of composition. Cloaky nullified T3's get caught by remote sebo'd camps. Fact. Refute it without resorting to logical fallacies, please. And I have told you how those sebo camps are doing it. Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine. You ignore the fact that these are the only ships that are invincible when flown right and demand I post evidence that is impossible to collect while providing none yourself. This seems to be a new recuring tactic of the bears desperate to keep the game imbalances that benefit them. In every war we have fought in the last year I cannot recall losing a single T3 booster to a camp. No, you have told me that all T3's that get caught are bad, an ad hoc fallacy.
I could just as easily say the pilots you fly with are terrible at gatecamping.
You have provided no facts to support your position whatsoever, only conjecture and opinion. My evidence? All of the t3's that die to remote seboed camps, something that is not in dispute.
All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:59:00 -
[172] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe.
Fun fact: We benefit from these uncatchable ships and if they get nerfed it would hurt us.
Unlike you however we will push to get imbalances fixed even if it hurts us for the greater good of the game. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
602
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 10:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine.
Did you read my post or are you just ignoring the fact that i already wrote how to catch skilled t3 pilots?
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 10:06:00 -
[174] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe.
Fun fact: We benefit from these uncatchable ships and if they get nerfed it would hurt us. Unlike you however we will push to get imbalances fixed even if it hurts us for the greater good of the game. Just like you lot pushed to get bombers nerfed a year or two ago? How'd that work out for ya?
But I'm sure CCP will see you for the magnanimous pilots you are, and will award you seven guardian-vexors for your service to the public good.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 10:11:00 -
[175] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: All I see in your posts is yet another QQ to get CCP to help you protect your space and your bears. QQ all you want, bubbles alone will not make your systems safe.
Fun fact: We benefit from these uncatchable ships and if they get nerfed it would hurt us. Unlike you however we will push to get imbalances fixed even if it hurts us for the greater good of the game. Just like you lot pushed to get bombers nerfed a year or two ago? How'd that work out for ya? But I'm sure CCP will see you for the magnanimous pilots you are, and will award you seven guardian-vexors for your service to the public good.
We have never pushed for bombers to be nerfed. Hell, we just burned down delve and fountain with them. The fountain war was dubbed the bomber war. |
Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:53:00 -
[176] - Quote
The only thing this thread achieves is to make you look like whining cowards ... |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2629
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:55:00 -
[177] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Gogela wrote: Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec. Check out the Rancer and Negative Ten KB and you will find that BRs are not so "uncatchable". You shut your ***** mouth. They are impossible to catch if a pod has the very basic fundamental skills of flying a blockade runner. If you loose one you are an idiot.
|
Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:56:00 -
[178] - Quote
Gogela wrote:TharOkha wrote:Gogela wrote: Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec. Check out the Rancer and Negative Ten KB and you will find that BRs are not so "uncatchable". You shut your ***** mouth. They are impossible to catch if a pod has the very basic fundamental skills of flying a blockade runner. If you loose one you are an idiot. You are totally embarrassing yourself right now ... ... and i doubt your words.
Maybe you just lack the skills. I sense some serious madness in you. "You shut your ***** mouth" ...
Also: lose |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
868
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:07:00 -
[179] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote: Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine.
Did you read my post or are you just ignoring the fact that i already wrote how to catch skilled t3 pilots?
like a number of nulsec posters, he only ever uses tiers 2-3 of the argument pyramid ie ad hominem & contradiction
for some allegedly intelligent people they have remarkably poor debating skills, though it is possible some of them do it deliberately to avoid the forum rules regarding trolling/personal attacks (tier 1 of the argument pyramid) ... but either way you are being trolled
your best and easiest course of action click their name just below the avatar click hide posts
and say hello to a happier, more troll free forum. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
450
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:08:00 -
[180] - Quote
Hey, at least we get pretty new bubble effects to laugh at while we pass through them I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2629
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:18:00 -
[181] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:Gogela wrote:TharOkha wrote:Gogela wrote: Blockade runners can't be caught in lowsec. Check out the Rancer and Negative Ten KB and you will find that BRs are not so "uncatchable". You shut your ***** mouth. They are impossible to catch if a pod has the very basic fundamental skills of flying a blockade runner. If you loose one you are an idiot. You are totally embarrassing yourself right now ... ... and i doubt your words. Maybe you just lack the skills. I sense some serious madness in you. "You shut your ***** mouth" ... Also: lose Embarrassment doesn't enter it. Madness I'll accept. Pirates aren't PvPers in the context you think... pirates are cowards who see their opening, understand the risk factors, and engage in a calculated risk. GTG you can't possibly loose a BR in lowsec... likewise a cloaky nullified T3 anywhere. That's a fact. Set up a camp. Seriously. You say when and where and I'll blow through it. I'll even unstack some plex in my cargo hold to prove the point. Call your dev friends. Call CCP. Call Pandemic Legion (about the only group who's even bothered to try an kill me... and the only group that I think would have a chance) I don't give a s***. I'll blow your camp on your terms w/ my ships. You won't catch me. You will do nothing but sit there. It's not about skills. You want to see embarrassment? Build a camp. Sensor boost the hell out of it. You'd have nothing on me. The game is set up as it is, and right now some smack just can't be caught. ...but seriously. I'd love to see you try to contradict me. Let's set a time. Get some of your guys to stream it. It'll be the lamest stream ever put forth on the internet. If you have a BR in lowsec or a T3 cloaky nullified ship anywhere, you are a ghost an nobody can do a damn thing about it.
Madness? You bet. Stupidity? I'll have none of it.
Nut up or shut up.
btw... you got a perrrrrrty mouth....
i will beat you...
|
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:35:00 -
[182] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:stuff I agree and it has nothing to do with gate camps. It gives way too much power to a cheap ship that doesn't take much skills. I am all for helping the new guys but this is over the top.
No its not, an interceptor is a piece of **** to combat, use warrior II's, a destroyer or a cheaper tech 1 frig, learn to play FFS..
|
baltec1
Bat Country
8108
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 13:44:00 -
[183] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote: Your entire argument revolves around bad players being terrible at flying T3s therefore its fine.
Did you read my post or are you just ignoring the fact that i already wrote how to catch skilled t3 pilots? like a number of nulsec posters, he only ever uses tiers 2-4 of the argument pyramidie ad hominem through to contradiction for some allegedly intelligent people they appear to have remarkably poor debating skills, though it is possible some of them do it deliberately to avoid the forum rules regarding direct trolling & personal attacks (tier 1 of the argument pyramid) ... but either way you are being trolled your best and easiest course of action click their name just below the avatar click hide posts and say hello to a happier, more troll free forum.
Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11889
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:02:00 -
[184] - Quote
What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway?
1 Kings 12:11
|
advii
Kossu and Keppana Inc.
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:05:00 -
[185] - Quote
ITT: OP crying because he cant farm noobs with drag bubbles anymore |
baltec1
Bat Country
8108
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:17:00 -
[186] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway?
Low volume high value cargo. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
336
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:25:00 -
[187] - Quote
I think that the nullified interceptors are perffectly ok. Not that hey any danger to a party. They have like 2 k hp. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
464
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:25:00 -
[188] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway? Low volume high value cargo.
PLEX, titan skillbooks, a collection of pricy t2 bpos? I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
336
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:28:00 -
[189] - Quote
Onyx Nyx wrote:baltec1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway? Low volume high value cargo. PLEX, titan skillbooks, a collection of pricy t2 bpos?
Disco domi? Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:42:00 -
[190] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Onyx Nyx wrote:baltec1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway? Low volume high value cargo. PLEX, titan skillbooks, a collection of pricy t2 bpos? Disco hyperion? Fixed that for you. Makes much more sense, because of hidden hull-range bonus and the additional highslot. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11890
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:58:00 -
[191] - Quote
So what are these "Jump Freighter" things I hear about?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Othran
Route One
598
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 15:19:00 -
[192] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So what are these "Jump Freighter" things I hear about?
400 times more expensive is what they are |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
128
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:11:00 -
[193] - Quote
Actually adding bubble immunity to interceptors seems like a step in a good direction to me. I think most players dont go to 0.0, because they know, they will die in the first bubble, if they wont have a blob with them. This finally makes small gang or solo 0.0 pvp available. I actually think there should be a way how to breach bubble for almost every ship. Some kind of module that generates a propability to avoid bubble based upon energy used, size of ship, sensor strength or something like that. That would make 0.0 a land of the living instead of blue wasteland. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1238
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:36:00 -
[194] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:IDK, maybe you should use....um....interceptors to intercept the interceptors?
As simple as this might look like, it's a true serious question.
So, right now we have someone finding problems about something not even existing yet, not sure it will even be implemented yet but already speculating on whatever the heck it might happen and strongly disagreeing with everyone not sharing his opinion.
Wow...flash new should I say.
I speculate Op is hypochondriac. Am I right or am I not? -I say I am but I'm sure he'll say I'm not, so in the end how's right who's wrong?
On topic, if op stops gate camping with links/implants and sh+»t alike, starts making some serious fleets (which Eve is not all about), he might understand at some point this is not a problem but for players unable to work in groups and this is what eve is all about: groups of players doing stuff together So the lonely cowboy crying his mother and sister about stuff not even happening yet should take a break and a step back before getting in to conclusions this fast. Clearly op has no idea about the majority of aspects outside his own gameplay, this is the only obvious part. How do you even want to have a serious discussion after this? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2643
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:07:00 -
[195] - Quote
Zakarumit CZ wrote:Actually adding bubble immunity to interceptors seems like a step in a good direction to me. I think most players dont go to 0.0, because they know, they will die in the first bubble, if they wont have a blob with them. This finally makes small gang or solo 0.0 pvp available. I actually think there should be a way how to breach bubble for almost every ship. Some kind of module that generates a propability to avoid bubble based upon energy used, size of ship, sensor strength or something like that. That would make 0.0 a land of the living instead of blue wasteland.
There are many reasons players avoid nullsec, and I agree that fear of being destroyed is one of them. However, that is not a good reason to enable safe travel.
Have you paid attention to nullsec activity since Odyssey? There has been a major increase in players partaking in exploration. This is a form of game play that can be done from a covops or t3 (the two safest nullsec traveling ship classes), both of which were purposely revamped to BE exploration vessels.
In contrast, an interceptor is a combat vessel. Shouldn't it be chasing ships into bubbles, not avoiding them! These are fast, agile ships that don't need to be nullified, and if you want "safer traveling", use a covops!
|
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
187
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:16:00 -
[196] - Quote
ceptors have needed a buff for a long time. smart bomb BS will come back. bubbles have needed a nerf. blockade runners are catchable in lowsec but the effort required is very high without multiboxing a ton of rokhs. ceptors are the absolute weakest ship in the game. they should have the decision on whether to engage or not. If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
128
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:23:00 -
[197] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Zakarumit CZ wrote:Actually adding bubble immunity to interceptors seems like a step in a good direction to me. I think most players dont go to 0.0, because they know, they will die in the first bubble, if they wont have a blob with them. This finally makes small gang or solo 0.0 pvp available. I actually think there should be a way how to breach bubble for almost every ship. Some kind of module that generates a propability to avoid bubble based upon energy used, size of ship, sensor strength or something like that. That would make 0.0 a land of the living instead of blue wasteland. There are many reasons players avoid nullsec, and I agree that fear of being destroyed is one of them. However, that is not a good reason to enable safe travel. Have you paid attention to nullsec activity since Odyssey? There has been a major increase in players partaking in exploration. This is a form of game play that can be done from a covops or t3 (the two safest nullsec traveling ship classes), both of which were purposely revamped to BE exploration vessels. In contrast, an interceptor is a combat vessel. Shouldn't it be chasing ships into bubbles, not avoiding them! These are fast, agile ships that don't need to be nullified, and if you want "safer traveling", use a covops!
I agree with that. But I think bubbless are just too overpowered right now. They would be ok, if there was a way how to travel with subcaps without gates and thus avoid gatecamps. At a cost, of course. I can imagine a feature that allows inter-system travels in reasonable time to be implemented. It would cost much more time than a gate jumps, minutes at least, and possible drain the ships capacitor dry. But I think this would be the point when players can really believe they have a chance to reach their destination in 0.0, if they spend enough time and fit the ship well. Now even with cov ops/t3 the risk in bubbles is pretty big. Swarms of drones, both assigned and jetcanned, some other garbage around and still sometimes 10+ ships with MWDs flying around just to decloak you. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11892
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:44:00 -
[198] - Quote
Othran wrote:Malcanis wrote:So what are these "Jump Freighter" things I hear about? 400 times more expensive is what they are
Well I thought the extra cargo space they have might be relevent, since there are apparently such amazing numbers of "carebears" flitting about 0.0 in Interceptors with Titan skillbooks in their holds these days that it's worth keeping an entire T2 shipclass irrelevant rather than tilt the balance away from the noble players who bravely attempt to stem this torrent, nay, flood.
I mean, not like a dreamed up edge-case or anything.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11892
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:46:00 -
[199] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Zakarumit CZ wrote:Actually adding bubble immunity to interceptors seems like a step in a good direction to me. I think most players dont go to 0.0, because they know, they will die in the first bubble, if they wont have a blob with them. This finally makes small gang or solo 0.0 pvp available. I actually think there should be a way how to breach bubble for almost every ship. Some kind of module that generates a propability to avoid bubble based upon energy used, size of ship, sensor strength or something like that. That would make 0.0 a land of the living instead of blue wasteland. There are many reasons players avoid nullsec, and I agree that fear of being destroyed is one of them. However, that is not a good reason to enable safe travel. Have you paid attention to nullsec activity since Odyssey? There has been a major increase in players partaking in exploration. This is a form of game play that can be done from a covops or t3 (the two safest nullsec traveling ship classes), both of which were purposely revamped to BE exploration vessels. In contrast, an interceptor is a combat vessel. Shouldn't it be chasing ships into bubbles, not avoiding them! These are fast, agile ships that don't need to be nullified, and if you want "safer traveling", use a covops!
Never fear; Interceptors retain their bonus to the range of the warp disruptors they have fitted.
Honestly, this idea that giving inties bubble nullification is a "carebear" bonus is so hilariously wrong headed that I assume that the OP is a troll that has gotten so many bites that people are accidentally taking it seriously.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
550
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:57:00 -
[200] - Quote
I, for one, welcome our new interceptor-noob overlords.
CCP wants to encourage people to get out and try 0.0. But the reply has always been, "But those bubbles." T3 you say? Expensive. But interceptors aren't too pricey. For noobs practicing with frigates in pvp, they're a natural progression and path to 0.0 play. A bit more expensive, but not T3 expensive, and now...interdiction nullified! \o/
When I read this, I sent an evemail out to my corp. about it because I am very excited for what this means to my little nooblings in terms of 0.0 possibilities. SoE ships put us in low-sec for exploration if the price is right, and buffed inties put us into 0.0 for ??? after that. I'm really really really happy with the new toys. http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/ |
|
baltec1
Bat Country
8110
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 18:45:00 -
[201] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Othran wrote:Malcanis wrote:So what are these "Jump Freighter" things I hear about? 400 times more expensive is what they are Well I thought the extra cargo space they have might be relevent, since there are apparently such amazing numbers of "carebears" flitting about 0.0 in Interceptors with Titan skillbooks in their holds these days that it's worth keeping an entire T2 shipclass irrelevant rather than tilt the balance away from the noble players who bravely attempt to stem this torrent, nay, flood.I mean, not like a dreamed up edge-case or anything.
Well if the high sec bears do it then why not clueless nullsec bears? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11894
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:06:00 -
[202] - Quote
If clueless nullsec bears want to move high value cargo in interceptors where they can be at least potentialy caught, then I'm all for that.
1 Kings 12:11
|
TharOkha
0asis Group
603
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:16:00 -
[203] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Onyx Nyx wrote:baltec1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway? Low volume high value cargo. PLEX, titan skillbooks, a collection of pricy t2 bpos? Disco domi?
Dont bother. baltec has already mentioned that this tactic is "too difficult" because you need many pilots to do it right. All they want is just a couple of dps ships and bubles with "turn on" button. Thats the only valid way of catching skilled pilots for them. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
TharOkha
0asis Group
603
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:22:00 -
[204] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.
I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But what about disco gatecamps? As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
351
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:23:00 -
[205] - Quote
Bubbles should be removed because they lead to threads like this. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
130
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:48:00 -
[206] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote: Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.
I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.
I have petitioned it several times and I have been told its bannable only when its causing enough lag to affect server. Otherwise its valid gameplay to jetcan trash all around and decloak ships. It makes me sad panda, really. |
JinSanJong
Brethren Holdings Brethren.
45
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:54:00 -
[207] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:JinSanJong wrote:Do you know what I hate most in eve? Lazy ass mobile bubbles and even more drag bubble, which are the most ridiculous item/mechanic in eve. When should you be able to be ago abs still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! Personally I think you should be able to have a nullifier mod fitted for every ship Avoiding bubbles is extremely easy! Don't warp gate to gate! Bounce off bookmarks, bounce off celestials, bounce off anomalies, etc. I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!! And bubbles are one of the best mechanics CCP has ever introduced to the game. The ability to set engagement distances, the ability to surprise a target that doesn't expect to leave warp at your bubble's edge... This has extreme tactical value, and are by far one of the best mechanics in the game. p.s. Your "I hate bubbles mantra" (a.k.a. please make nullsec travel safer for me) is EXACTLY why this change is simply terrible!
no you jst want to be lazy! yu want it on easy mode not anyone else! use a dictor or hic! or what even a warp scrambler! who would of thought!
|
Operative X10-4
Sepultura.
23
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:04:00 -
[208] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote: Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.
I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop.
Yes trash cans around gate is a bannable tactic depending on how many cans you drop around it, Our guys were reported some months ago because of that. To this tactics be efefctive you have to drop lots of cans hundreds...
An interdiction nullifier ceptor is a bad move and i'm not even talking about people using it to haul some expensive small cargo around, thats one point I mentioned before.... think about it... people use ceptors as intel to check enemys fleets in nul sec and they are very usefull in doing this the way it is right now, giving the ability to zip throught bubbles/interdictors means that you cant ever stop an enemy fleet to get intel about your fleet composition. Thats dumbing down eve gameplay. Should we instead of trying to hide our fleet composition to have an upper hand in combat, just convo our enemys and say: Hello, we have x BS, x Logis and whatevar, what do you have? lets pew pew?... Seriously. -.-
We alredy have those T3 nullifiers almost imune to any blockade, but at least they are expensive 500M a cheap fitted one, and any mistake is a huge loss, but cheap throw away tackles? no way man.
I dont even consider those who says that this new feature will help the high sec players to reach null sec and increase the number of the population there... thats a joke, if you'r afraid to sit on a t1 frigate fitted and go to nulls, because of the "huge loss" you will have if you fall into a gate camp.. seriously wtf!.. hello kitty online is waiting for you, and not even a magic T7000 super powar ship with nullifier and toons of warp core stablizers will make you create ballz to fly in a 0.0 enviroment.
FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY. |
Infinity Ziona
Hot Drop Buns
454
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:11:00 -
[209] - Quote
Operative X10-4 wrote:TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote: Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.
I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop. Yes trash cans around gate is a bannable tactic depending on how many cans you drop around it, Our guys were reported some months ago because of that. To this tactics be efefctive you have to drop lots of cans hundreds... An interdiction nullifier ceptor is a bad move and i'm not even talking about people using it to haul some expensive small cargo around, thats one point I mentioned before.... think about it... people use ceptors as intel to check enemys fleets in nul sec and they are very usefull in doing this the way it is right now, giving the ability to zip throught bubbles/interdictors means that you cant ever stop an enemy fleet to get intel about your fleet composition. Thats dumbing down eve gameplay. Should we instead of trying to hide our fleet composition to have an upper hand in combat, just convo our enemys and say: Hello, we have x BS, x Logis and whatevar, what do you have? lets pew pew?... Seriously. -.- We alredy have those T3 nullifiers almost imune to any blockade, but at least they are expensive 500M a cheap fitted one, and any mistake is a huge loss, but cheap throw away tackles? no way man. I dont even consider those who says that this new feature will help the high sec players to reach null sec and increase the number of the population there... thats a joke, if you'r afraid to sit on a t1 frigate fitted and go to nulls, because of the "huge loss" you will have if you fall into a gate camp.. seriously wtf!.. hello kitty online is waiting for you, and not even a magic T7000 super powar ship with nullifier and toons of warp core stablizers will make you create ballz to fly in a 0.0 enviroment. I have to agree with the last part of your post. I can't see what use an intie would be for high seccers in null anyway. What are they going to do with them? Besides its very easy atm to take a cov ops to any region n null and find a wormhole back to highsec and then move useful ships in that way.
I'd be happy if they threw away all these new mechanics and just gave caps ability to jump themselves, get rid of cyno's. Way more people in null if hot drop threat was nullified (pun intended). |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9174
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:29:00 -
[210] - Quote
Onyx Nyx wrote:baltec1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:What are "carebears" doing in Interceptors anyway? Low volume high value cargo. PLEX, titan skillbooks, a collection of pricy t2 bpos?
I dunno but when I needed a titan book moved from highsec to 0.0 I paid a jump freighter service to move it Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
|
TharOkha
0asis Group
604
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 05:51:00 -
[211] - Quote
Operative X10-4 wrote:TharOkha wrote:baltec1 wrote: Well I could go into how using his tactics is walking a very fine line as CCP do ban people for it. Hence why we do not use that tactic anymore and havent for years.
I have seen so many gatecamps using this tactics (trash around gates so cloaky cannot cloak) lately that i doubt that this is bannable anymore. But okay ill take your point and lets just say that its bannable. But my other proposition was disco gatecamps. As far as i know it is valid and legal tactics. And with such tactics you are able to decloak t3/blocade runner or instakill nullified ceptor/covop. Yes trash cans around gate is a bannable tactic depending on how many cans you drop around it, Our guys were reported some months ago because of that. To this tactics be efefctive you have to drop lots of cans hundreds... An interdiction nullifier ceptor is a bad move and i'm not even talking about people using it to haul some expensive small cargo around, thats one point I mentioned before.... think about it... people use ceptors as intel to check enemys fleets in nul sec and they are very usefull in doing this the way it is right now, giving the ability to zip throught bubbles/interdictors means that you cant ever stop an enemy fleet to get intel about your fleet composition. Thats dumbing down eve gameplay. Should we instead of trying to hide our fleet composition to have an upper hand in combat, just convo our enemys and say: Hello, we have x BS, x Logis and whatevar, what do you have? lets pew pew?... Seriously. -.- We alredy have those T3 nullifiers almost imune to any blockade, but at least they are expensive 500M a cheap fitted one, and any mistake is a huge loss, but cheap throw away tackles? no way man. I dont even consider those who says that this new feature will help the high sec players to reach null sec and increase the number of the population there... thats a joke, if you'r afraid to sit on a t1 frigate fitted and go to nulls, because of the "huge loss" you will have if you fall into a gate camp.. seriously wtf!.. hello kitty online is waiting for you, and not even a magic T7000 super powar ship with nullifier and toons of warp core stablizers will make you create ballz to fly in a 0.0 enviroment.
Okay you have made your point. But what surprises me is a fact that (not just) you is telling this as if only your enemy could use null ceptors. SUPRISE. Even your corp/alliance will be able to use it as well.
Yes T3 cov/null is expensive (500M +) but it has also a lot more HP. You cannot pop T3 with several smartbombs but definitely you can pop low HP ceptor. So yes, nullceptors would be used as cheap throw away intel ships but they will be easy to kill if you set up your gatecamp correctly.
Just be prepared that smartbombs should be used more in gatecamps. And i think it is good, because while to fly nullified cloaked T3 demand some skills (perfect timing for aligment/warp + cloak) gatecamps nullsec does not need any skills. Just turn on bubble and wait and you will certainly catch almost everything.
GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Sh0plifter
Underworld Initiative
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 06:16:00 -
[212] - Quote
So, lets keep the weak ship weak. Lets not make it harder to kill 'cause we need to feel relevant and our killboards green.
**** the inty changes, we only use cap ships anyways in null. Lets keep all frigs 100% killable with drag bubble camps 'cause I'm a ******.
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 07:37:00 -
[213] - Quote
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:\\ Reason 2:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!
I think this is the larger problem. Maybe Interceptors get a passive IN module that allows them to turn it on/off?
^^^ This
Honestly that would gave the pilots more tactics to play with and create a bit of an uncertainty when they come on grid. I like the idea personally of the on/off |
baltec1
Bat Country
8112
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 08:18:00 -
[214] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:
What surprises me is a fact that (not just) you is telling this as if only your enemy could use null ceptors. SUPRISE. Even your corp/alliance will be able to use it as well.
And yet here we are saying its a bad thing. Getting intel even easier with a system that is almost idiot proof is not something we want, dispite the fact it would make our lives even easier. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
604
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 09:03:00 -
[215] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TharOkha wrote:
What surprises me is a fact that (not just) you is telling this as if only your enemy could use null ceptors. SUPRISE. Even your corp/alliance will be able to use it as well.
And yet here we are saying its a bad thing. Getting intel even easier with a system that is almost idiot proof is not something we want, dispite the fact it would make our lives even easier.
Well and all i am saying is that this "getting intel easier" case will prevail only if you dont change gatecamp tactics. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Signal11th
DARKNESS.
1118
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 09:37:00 -
[216] - Quote
Ok so we know that CCP are going to bring this in, all we need to figure out now is why the Goons need it..... Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8112
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 09:56:00 -
[217] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Ok so we know that CCP are going to bring this in, all we need to figure out now is why the Goons need it.....
We can toss our brave newbees in cepters into any given system and know they will probably make it. Nobody puts the 30 to 50 smartbombing BS needed to cover a gate on any gatecamp. Regional gates are all but garenteed to be easy to get past.
We can also have our brave newbees bounce around NC/N3 renter space and bypass the bubble traps. |
KatanTharkay
V I R I I Ineluctable.
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 10:19:00 -
[218] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Regional gates are all but garenteed to be easy to get past.
Except for Minmatar regional gates, those are bugged and don't have a box covering the whole structure. They are most of the time bubbled. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 12:20:00 -
[219] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:Bubble camper tears.....best tears.
not just bubble campers but also null miners and nullbear tears. Add in the fact that most people don't read patch notes and so will come back to make endless tear filled threads after the patch hits and this warp speed change along with the intie changes are going to be the gift that keeps on giving. No wonder we got a corpwide mail instructing newbros to train intie b4 november so we can help with the tear harvesting. This year will be a rich and bountiful harvest indeed. Thankyou OP for the early crop. |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 13:29:00 -
[220] - Quote
Andski wrote: I dunno but when I needed a titan book moved from highsec to 0.0 I paid a jump freighter service to move it
I just clone-jumped to hi-sec and injected it.
As far as this thread goes,... I keep imagining a dog chasing its tail with a smoke grenade in its mouth. |
|
Atlantis Fuanan
Uncharted Skies Cerberus Unleashed
25
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 13:31:00 -
[221] - Quote
I like the changes tothe Interceptors, it actually fits to them. If they are send to intercept ships, they can now and they won't be stopped by these ugly wobbly-bubbly. And correct me, in fact they are no real danger opposed to a cloaky one, only difference is, he warps off instead of going cloaky in a danger situation. And correct me again, inty are squishy, so load your guns and keep firing them. The pod has no interdiction nullifier and you can then thank that inty for chasing/annyoing you. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
876
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:03:00 -
[222] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP.
Sounds like a rather monodirectional definition of "nonconsensual interceptor PVP" there...
Interceptor jumps through gate into 386 large T2 bubbles around it, scans target in Sanctum and warps to site without having to burn 100 km through bubbles. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2646
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:08:00 -
[223] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP. Sounds like a rather monodirectional definition of "nonconsensual interceptor PVP" there... Interceptor jumps through gate into 386 large T2 bubbles around it, scans target in Sanctum and warps to site without having to burn 100 km through bubbles.
Let me clarify: This change essentially removes interceptor Pilots from non-consensual PvP. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
787
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:18:00 -
[224] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP. Sounds like a rather monodirectional definition of "nonconsensual interceptor PVP" there... Interceptor jumps through gate into 386 large T2 bubbles around it, scans target in Sanctum and warps to site without having to burn 100 km through bubbles. Let me clarify: This change essentially removes interceptor Pilots from non-consensual PvP. i'm i right nullifier removes pilot from controlling interceptor? |
Spurty
982
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:26:00 -
[225] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Let me clarify: This change essentially removes interceptor Pilots from non-consensual PvP.
His point is that he can't shoot an interceptor because he is awful at this game, has no ability or desire to evolve and thinks killing an interceptor is some manly feat.
All cloaking ships meet and transcend his concept of 'non-consensual pvp'.
He really should have stopped posting after his first awful post.
At first, we weren't sure if he was acting like a moron or really one. Now there's no doubt about it at all.
--- GòöGòùGòöGòÉGòªGòù GòæGòÜGòúGòæGòæGòÜGòù GòÜGòÉGò¬GòÉGò¬GòÉGò¥
|
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
876
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:03:00 -
[226] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP. Sounds like a rather monodirectional definition of "nonconsensual interceptor PVP" there... Interceptor jumps through gate into 386 large T2 bubbles around it, scans target in Sanctum and warps to site without having to burn 100 km through bubbles. Let me clarify: This change essentially removes interceptor Pilots from non-consensual PvP.
No, that's no different to your original post.
You're trying to say "This change essentially removes interceptor pilots from being on the receiving end of non-consensual PvP".
But, ignoring all discussion of the veracity of the statement, is this such a problem? The argument does not apply to an interceptor that is looking for PVP, only to ones that aren't. But what are these non-PVP interceptors doing? They seem only to include pilots moving from A to B for logistic reasons, or moving small cargos. But while both cases are real, I'm not sure that they really matter that much, given jump and clone mechanics. Certainly, it seems to be a worthwhile trade-off to me.
Or maybe they'll make the tackleceptors bubble-immune, and leave the combatceptors as-is, giving people a choice? |
Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
632
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:09:00 -
[227] - Quote
Interdiction Nullified Interceptors ARE acceptable!!!
it fits with their job as an T2 frig.
Now, anyone saying that "that means an inty will now be able to jump into a system with 50 Large T2 bubbles and warp directly to that sanctum with nothing slowing them down"
Its like they forgot about those pesky cloaky T3's. I mean, they are nullified AND they cloak. Does OP know about those? Because I figure that he thinks that nullified ships are over powered, well what about nullified AND cloaky? What stops them from doing the SAME thing?
As far as that goes, the function of being nullified draws from no other ship in-game. So in that sense, the nullification alone on a ship that represents GENERALIZATION has a function that doesn't exist on anything else.
This new ability for the inty is needed to balance the power of the T3 |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
125
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 18:21:00 -
[228] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Interdiction Nullfied Interceptors are awesome!!!
Fixed the title for ya.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ ...end transmission... |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
321
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 18:43:00 -
[229] - Quote
Interdiction nullified interceptors are a ******* GENIUS idea. I love it and it makes COMPLETE sense when combined with the warp acceleration. Its only one little ship class.
I don't like telling people they are playing incorrectly in a sandbox like this, but if this is bothering you so much you really are doing this wrong. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 21:12:00 -
[230] - Quote
I think this one is a cool idea... IN interceptors stay... We need more of what they have planned with the strategic fleets. Lets bring it. |
|
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat The Obsidian Front
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 21:59:00 -
[231] - Quote
The Nullified Interceptor change was one of the changes I am most excited about thus far. This will allow a tactical counter to bubble camping gate blobs. I have always seen the dictor bubbles as being a bit OP, of course that is the opinion of one caught in it i suppose. I never thought the same when I was the one camping one though
I am a bit surprised though that this change to the interceptor happened prior to something like this happening to, lets say, the non-covert recons or the non-covert blockade runners, but I will continue to hold out hope! |
Nick Kumamoto
State Protectorate Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:08:00 -
[232] - Quote
All I am hearing is:
- Waaaah, I want to continue getting easy kills.
- Waaaah, I want to deny people access to null.
- Waaaah, I am lame.
Seriously dude, the more changes to combating asshat gatecamps or "bubbled-to-Beelzebub" the better.
It will shake things up a bit, which in all fairness is needed since Goons "won" EVE. |
Reiisha
Evolution
360
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:32:00 -
[233] - Quote
This change will make a big difference on positional gameplay, where bubbles have to be placed much more strategically to prevent inties from making maximum use of them. You can't just dump them in the main warp path and be done with it anymore.
It also enables some pretty nifty guerilla warfare tactics where smaller groups can pull some cool stuff on bigger fleets, if fc'd correctly.
The only thing that is hurt by this change is static gatecamps, and even then mostly for inties.
And most importantly, interceptors will finally be able to do their own job better than interdictors.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4660
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:35:00 -
[234] - Quote
Nick Kumamoto wrote:All I am hearing is:
- Waaaah, I want to continue getting easy kills.
- Waaaah, I want to deny people access to null.
- Waaaah, I am lame.
Seriously dude, the more changes to combating asshat gatecamps or "bubbled-to-Beelzebub" the better. It will shake things up a bit, which in all fairness is needed since Goons "won" EVE. Progodlegend is still fighting, will you support him? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Haulmon
Wandering Nomads Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:22:00 -
[235] - Quote
If inteceptors are getting nullification, then the grav site anom's need to be scanned once again. Otherwise null sec mining will be too difficult otherwise. |
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:43:00 -
[236] - Quote
Haulmon wrote:If inteceptors are getting nullification, then the grav site anom's need to be scanned once again. Otherwise null sec mining will be too difficult otherwise.
nope, mining in high sec or low sec is also risky, bring support ships or don't mine, stop crying. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1041
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:20:00 -
[237] - Quote
Nick Kumamoto wrote:All I am hearing is:
- Waaaah, I want to continue getting easy kills.
- Waaaah, I want to deny people access to null.
- Waaaah, I am lame.
Seriously dude, the more changes to combating asshat gatecamps or "bubbled-to-Beelzebub" the better. It will shake things up a bit, which in all fairness is needed since Goons "won" EVE.
Are you for real? First of all, Interceptors could bust gatecamps laughably easily anyway, so this doesn't change that. And in the instances that they could not, smartbombs, this won't help. They gain next to nothing from this change with regards to defending against bubbles.
Secondly, are you really so awful at this game that you can't get past a camp without a nullified ship?
I mean, I consider this to be a good change (mostly because it will mean some very epic chasing), but you're thrown so heavily into the "I haet nullsek!" crowd of people as for your opinion to be entirely discounted. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:08:00 -
[238] - Quote
This is a great change. OP needs to rethink his position as it makes no sense. So the Inty gets tackle on your fleet. Unless your all flying Badgers, you will probably melt him anyway. And if you don't then you deserve to die.
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2912
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:09:00 -
[239] - Quote
While I still believe interdiciton nullified Inties are way over the top.... I'm having a blast using them! I've killed carriers, bastion mode marauders, tons of ishtars... and the kills will keep on coming.
|
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
964
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:30:00 -
[240] - Quote
Keep in mind there is a downside to it too.
Namely in your standard roam when an inty is one or two systems ahead of the rest of the gang, and calls the rest in after they have a target pointed. They now have to keep that target pointed for MUCH longer than before. Long enough to get eaten up by drones, or whatever else you have to defend yourself.
Yes its not perfect, but I think the new interceptor changes are awesome, whether on my side or the enemies. ;) Adds a new element to the game that hasn't been seen for quite some time.
Also... Fit smart bombs. |
|
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
965
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:35:00 -
[241] - Quote
As a side note, it would be kind of cool as an alternative if there was a new module that only inty's could use that is an interdiction nullifier. That way you would weigh your options on whether to use it or not, and the decision to fit would mean you'd have to remove something else. Much like interdiction nullified t3's. Hell could even reduce your scan res or something. On an inty it would make the decision to fit one or not a big one.
Again, I think they are fine as being nullified across the board as they are now, but at least something like that would be a good compromise. |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
118
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:40:00 -
[242] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!! Reason 2: This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer? Reason 3: The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots. At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire. making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd. helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups. Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull. P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?
C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust..... |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
657
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:41:00 -
[243] - Quote
On the one hand, the interceptor changes are really fun.
On the other hand, a rtarded monkey can now fly across all of null in complete safety in an inty, especially if they fit nanos/inertial stabs/wcs to their inty. Oh and celestial bounces counter the smartbomb argument completely.
Objectively, travel across swathes of null has been dumbed down significantly. But it's fun. The change is probably more good than bad. |
destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
275
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:49:00 -
[244] - Quote
new inty changes are ok. i havent had a problem while carrier ratting and a inty comes floating around, i love flying them,. however havein their new abilitys allows camps and fleets to get that 1 juicy kill that always gets away. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
642
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 23:52:00 -
[245] - Quote
Grey Beard wrote:Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
Quoted for truth
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
327
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:03:00 -
[246] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:...WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER...
To make nullsec travel safer and easier.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2913
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:16:00 -
[247] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:...WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER... To make nullsec travel safer and easier.
uh huh.... it's certainly made ascertaining Cyno inhibitor BPO's and the like much easier... And I've personally traveled through about 300 hostile systems in the last 3 days, easily avoiding home defense fleets while ganking any and all ratters that take more than 13 seconds to get into warp! |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2913
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:20:00 -
[248] - Quote
Alaekessa wrote: CovOps, T3's and now interceptors too are not just for risk adverse carebears.
They're also for people who want to slip your camps and cyno/covert cyno their fleet into your space.
If you ask me, that sounds like the exact opposite of what risk adverse carebears would do.
I find it highly amusing how quickly accusations of being a carebear are thrown around here, one might think that carebears are the only people playing Eve.
I've been flying the hell out of inties the last couple days.... they are fun, and they are the utlimate get-away ships. Our gangs of inties simply bypass home defense fleets as if they never bothered to form up. We engage that which we believe we have a chance to kill, and bypass everything else.
The problem is, it is very easy to avoid any and all fights when flying these ships, which makes them the quintessential ship for the risk adverse! |
Abdullah Bahdoon
Somali Initiative for Dialogue and Posting
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:37:00 -
[249] - Quote
Well... since you don't like interceptors anyway, can I have your Taranis ? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2913
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:40:00 -
[250] - Quote
Abdullah Bahdoon wrote:Well... since you don't like interceptors anyway, can I have your Taranis ?
I think you misunderstand me.... I ******* LOVE interceptors... I just firmly believe that having them interdiction nullified is too much... |
|
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
118
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:43:00 -
[251] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Alaekessa wrote: CovOps, T3's and now interceptors too are not just for risk adverse carebears.
They're also for people who want to slip your camps and cyno/covert cyno their fleet into your space.
If you ask me, that sounds like the exact opposite of what risk adverse carebears would do.
I find it highly amusing how quickly accusations of being a carebear are thrown around here, one might think that carebears are the only people playing Eve.
I've been flying the hell out of inties the last couple days.... they are fun, and they are the utlimate get-away ships. Our gangs of inties simply bypass home defense fleets as if they never bothered to form up. We engage that which we believe we have a chance to kill, and bypass everything else. The problem is, it is very easy to avoid any and all fights when flying these ships, which makes them the quintessential ship for the risk adverse! Roving death squads sounds like a lot of fun.
However, I am of the opinion that they will only be the "quintessential ship for the risk adverse" until home defense fleets figure out the appropriate counter (I saw someone suggest smartbombing bubble camps, just need to forget about the bubbles and use appropriately sized ships to maximize bombing profile. C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust..... |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2913
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:47:00 -
[252] - Quote
Alaekessa wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Alaekessa wrote: CovOps, T3's and now interceptors too are not just for risk adverse carebears.
They're also for people who want to slip your camps and cyno/covert cyno their fleet into your space.
If you ask me, that sounds like the exact opposite of what risk adverse carebears would do.
I find it highly amusing how quickly accusations of being a carebear are thrown around here, one might think that carebears are the only people playing Eve.
I've been flying the hell out of inties the last couple days.... they are fun, and they are the utlimate get-away ships. Our gangs of inties simply bypass home defense fleets as if they never bothered to form up. We engage that which we believe we have a chance to kill, and bypass everything else. The problem is, it is very easy to avoid any and all fights when flying these ships, which makes them the quintessential ship for the risk adverse! Roving death squads sounds like a lot of fun. However, I am of the opinion that they will only be the "quintessential ship for the risk adverse" until home defense fleets figure out the appropriate counter (I saw someone suggest smartbombing bubble camps, just need to forget about the bubbles and use appropriately sized ships to maximize bombing profile.
I've lead more than a few large frigate roams, and generally speaking, smart bombing BS's may get a few kills, after which they die to the rest of the gang they failed to destroy. |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
118
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 00:51:00 -
[253] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Alaekessa wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Alaekessa wrote: CovOps, T3's and now interceptors too are not just for risk adverse carebears.
They're also for people who want to slip your camps and cyno/covert cyno their fleet into your space.
If you ask me, that sounds like the exact opposite of what risk adverse carebears would do.
I find it highly amusing how quickly accusations of being a carebear are thrown around here, one might think that carebears are the only people playing Eve.
I've been flying the hell out of inties the last couple days.... they are fun, and they are the utlimate get-away ships. Our gangs of inties simply bypass home defense fleets as if they never bothered to form up. We engage that which we believe we have a chance to kill, and bypass everything else. The problem is, it is very easy to avoid any and all fights when flying these ships, which makes them the quintessential ship for the risk adverse! Roving death squads sounds like a lot of fun. However, I am of the opinion that they will only be the "quintessential ship for the risk adverse" until home defense fleets figure out the appropriate counter (I saw someone suggest smartbombing bubble camps, just need to forget about the bubbles and use appropriately sized ships to maximize bombing profile. I've lead more than a few large frigate roams, and generally speaking, smart bombing BS's may get a few kills, after which they die to the rest of the gang they failed to destroy. They obviously haven't been utilizing the appropriate fleet comp then. C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust..... |
Leigh Akiga
Trickle Down Economics
350
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 01:04:00 -
[254] - Quote
Congratulations on making sure the last remnants of people actually living in 0.0 move out CCP |
Knights Armament
But I p0op from there
112
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 01:21:00 -
[255] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:On the one hand, the interceptor changes are really fun.
On the other hand, a rtarded monkey can now fly across all of null in complete safety in an inty, especially if they fit nanos/inertial stabs/wcs to their inty. Oh and celestial bounces counter the smartbomb argument completely.
Objectively, travel across swathes of null has been dumbed down significantly. But it's fun. The change is probably more good than bad.
This is a good thing, less people in empire, more people in null. https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=29554516-05f9-4eca-a942-32e1701a6569&action=buddy |
Damsyl
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 03:56:00 -
[256] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Congratulations on making sure the last remnants of people actually living in 0.0 move out CCP
Knights Armament wrote:This is a good thing, less people in empire, more people in null.
So these amazing nullified interceptors are responsible for making nullsec residents move out, and empire residents move in to nullsec. I think I get it.
|
Decian Cor
Disconnected. Moon Warriors
50
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 04:49:00 -
[257] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
I've been flying the hell out of inties the last couple days.... they are fun, and they are the utlimate get-away ships. Our gangs of inties simply bypass home defense fleets as if they never bothered to form up. We engage that which we believe we have a chance to kill, and bypass everything else because we are so super amazing. Did I mention my e-peen? It's Huge.
The problem is, it is very easy to avoid any and all fights when flying these ships, which makes them the quintessential ship for the risk adverse!
After the 5th or so time you brought up your awesome death dealing, home defense avoiding, super fast and cool Inty fleet, I determined you would like a cookie.
And nobody really wants to give you a cookie. "There is no good and evil. There is only power, and those too weak to seek it."
Unfiltered for the masses. |
Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
41
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 05:15:00 -
[258] - Quote
Should inties be nullified? Yes and no.
Against anchorable bubbles? Yes. Why? Because these are primarily used in risk free actions such as bubbling ratting system gates to hell and back and occassionally cloaky/ sniper camping. These actions allow people to avoid engagements if they so please to.
Against dictor bubbles? Hell no. If you are fielding a dictor you are putting a squishy target into the enemies sights, 7k, 8k ehp is not alot. Further more these rely on someone hitting that button at the right time to drag people or bubble a gate. Dictor probes are also relatively small, about 20km ish radius, nothing to an intie. It's not an 'i win' button by any means, it is a way to open a window for engagement with a currently unengageable ship type.
And there is the problem, intie fleets are currently unengageable between their 4k plus speeds and instawarping combined with nullification. There is one counter i can think of and has a low chance of success; cloaky recons around a bait ship. Even after the effort of setting it up inties still have an 8 second window to slip point and warp. It should be noted that this is dependent on them engaging you, which is why i am for non-nullification against dictors, because without it roaming gangs, and most defence gangs, cannot even consider engaging interceptors.
My 2 cents.
Till next time fly safe and fly inty. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3658
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 05:29:00 -
[259] - Quote
People who think inties are OP claiming that they are ganking the crap out of everything with fleets of inties in an attempt at reverse psychology.
As if anybody is going to care about botters and AFK miners in lowsec (all 3 or 4 of them).
Nice try.
|
Cynter DeVries
Spheroidal Projections
688
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 05:41:00 -
[260] - Quote
Tactically Enhanced Acceptably Rebalanced Ships Cynter's Law of feature suggestion: Thou shalt not suggest NPCs do something players could do instead. |
|
Karrl Tian
Bourbon Bandits Anarchy.
262
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 06:21:00 -
[261] - Quote
It's EVE with Tom Cruise and Kenny Loggins. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6267
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 06:28:00 -
[262] - Quote
Interdiction nullified interceptors are a counter to the fact that your ratting ship can now refit for self-defense if necessary. EVE Online - A Rigged Game |
Ari 2M
Fulminata XII
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 09:10:00 -
[263] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Interdiction nullified interceptors are a counter to the fact that your ratting ship can now refit for self-defense if necessary.
It won't work, because... it simply won't. What any ship can do against a gang of interceptors? 15-20 of them? They will melt it with ease. I don't afraid of a single "catching" interceptor. I can deal with it. But the threat of gangs makes me scratch my head.
http://vimeo.com/79857329# |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
415
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 09:18:00 -
[264] - Quote
Ari 2M wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Interdiction nullified interceptors are a counter to the fact that your ratting ship can now refit for self-defense if necessary. It won't work, because... it simply won't. What any ship can do against a gang of interceptors? 15-20 of them? They will melt it with ease. I don't afraid of a single "catching" interceptor. I can deal with it. But the threat of gangs makes me scratch my head. http://vimeo.com/79857329#
Nobody should be able to counter the combined effort of 15-20 people with ease. You will however counter up to 10 inties with an active thanked Ishtar for instance. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE |
Ari 2M
Fulminata XII
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 09:29:00 -
[265] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Nobody should be able to counter the combined effort of 15-20 people with ease. You will however counter up to 10 inties with an active thanked Ishtar for instance.
Er... you did't get my point. I was talking about gangs of 15-20 people who can almost instawarp to you and they're immune to bubbles. See? T3s have nullifiers too, but they're relatively slow. Interceptors aren't. So. We live in interesting times. A week ago you could engage somebody, because his friends were 3 jumps away. Now they can join their mate in less than 1 minute and kill the killer, lol
Not to mention logintraps etc... :) It's time to think really hard and work it out, how to deal with new rules. I can live with extremely fast interceptors. They were made for it. But i'm not sure about their bubble immunity. |
Ari 2M
Fulminata XII
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 09:41:00 -
[266] - Quote
Also, just to make my point even more clear. Are interceptors overpowered these days? And the answer is: yes, they defnitely are. You know why? Because they're cheap! :) Nullified t3s are expensive and slow. Inties are cheap and fast :D |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
90
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 10:37:00 -
[267] - Quote
It is really fun. As long you fly the Interceptor. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
571
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 10:51:00 -
[268] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:*edit Post Rubicon Update* While I still believe interdiciton nullified Inties are way over the top.... I'm having a blast using them! I've killed carriers, bastion mode marauders, tons of ishtars... and the kills will keep on coming. It takes hardly any time to zoom across nullsec in a fleet of inties. We can shotgun systems to greatly improve the likelihood of catching someone, and I have yet to meet a "home defense fleet" that we can't just zip on by and completely ignore. I strongly suggest CCP removes Inty Nullification, or limits the abilities of nullified inties.... these things are ridiculous right now!
/post rubicon update
CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!! Reason 2: This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer? Reason 3: The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots. At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire. making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd. helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups. Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull. P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?
I am enjoying mine, really happy with it.
PS. I also afk cloak... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2159
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 11:07:00 -
[269] - Quote
The only real issue may be that interceptors may intrude on covops in their role as scouting ships. And secure low volume transportation.
For ratting, just set up bookmarks at the opposite side of the belt warp in and you'll have a few more seconds to warp off, even if the interceptor warps to the belt you are in first thing at jump in. Saved me more than once. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Faenir Antollare
University of Caille Gallente Federation
153
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 11:11:00 -
[270] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:*edit Post Rubicon Update* While I still believe interdiciton nullified Inties are way over the top.... I'm having a blast using them! I've killed carriers, bastion mode marauders, tons of ishtars... and the kills will keep on coming. It takes hardly any time to zoom across nullsec in a fleet of inties. We can shotgun systems to greatly improve the likelihood of catching someone, and I have yet to meet a "home defense fleet" that we can't just zip on by and completely ignore. I strongly suggest CCP removes Inty Nullification, or limits the abilities of nullified inties.... these things are ridiculous right now!
/post rubicon update
CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:
While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:
Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.
I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.
Reason 1:
Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!! Reason 2: This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer? Reason 3: The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots. At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire. making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd. helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups. Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties: A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull. P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?
EvE-O-Lution Dude, try getting on it. Any fast riders ?
|
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1156
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 11:44:00 -
[271] - Quote
Gate camper tears, best tears. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Garia666
CyberShield Inc C0VEN
38
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 11:59:00 -
[272] - Quote
they should make it so they can warp out of an bubble.... but still land on when when its anchored.. or active... |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
598
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 12:00:00 -
[273] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:The only real issue may be that interceptors may intrude on covops in their role as scouting ships. And secure low volume transportation.
For ratting, just set up bookmarks at the opposite side of the belt warp in and you'll have a few more seconds to warp off, even if the interceptor warps to the belt you are in first thing at jump in. Saved me more than once.
....people actually belt rat? |
DraconisAlpha
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 12:15:00 -
[274] - Quote
Nice idea them to get caught by bubbles.
But I overall like new ceptors. |
Rekon X
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 12:16:00 -
[275] - Quote
Lrn2adapt. It's part of the game now. |
Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
41
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 12:17:00 -
[276] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Gate camper tears, best tears.
WTF are you on about? Most fights take place on gates because they are chokepoints, and very few systems are actually gate camped.
Everything is 'tears' as soon as someone voices concerns that maybe effectively triple buffing a ship (warp accel, rebalancing, nullification) is prehaps abit broken in relation to the rest of the game. Heck i fly inties too so i benefit from this but it's not good for a diverse and interesting pvp experience when everyone is flying the same ships. The ability to recognise 'broken' and speak up about it does not equal tears.
TL:DR You are a pubby poser who knows jack s't |
I Accidentally YourShip
My Other Capital Ship is Your Mom
194
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 12:32:00 -
[277] - Quote
Grr goons. |
Adamski flipflop
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 13:23:00 -
[278] - Quote
i like the idea of them being immune to anchor-able bubbles but not to dictor bubbles.
They should still be able to burn out of them pretty easy but it provides people a chance to kill them and puts a bit of skill (on both sides) back into the equation. |
Becham
Mufa Thukker Industries Why So Super Seri0Us
11
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 13:49:00 -
[279] - Quote
Rekon X wrote:Lrn2adapt. It's part of the game now.
When you make a change this big, things that were previously balanced on the old reality will be out of balance. People will adapt, but that doesn't mean all discussions have to end because something is in the game. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6297
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:07:00 -
[280] - Quote
Ari 2M wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Interdiction nullified interceptors are a counter to the fact that your ratting ship can now refit for self-defense if necessary. It won't work, because... it simply won't. What any ship can do against a gang of interceptors? 15-20 of them? They will melt it with ease. I don't afraid of a single "catching" interceptor. I can deal with it. But the threat of gangs makes me scratch my head. A single or a few interceptors can slip through undetected. A gang of them is going to show up in intel. EVE Online - A Rigged Game |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1110
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:10:00 -
[281] - Quote
How does this make it safer and easier than it was before, again?
High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
Kytayn
Kronos TEchnologies
150
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:34:00 -
[282] - Quote
Cynter DeVries wrote:Tactically Enhanced Acceptably Rebalanced Ships ^ This. |
Strange Shadow
Hedion University Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:39:00 -
[283] - Quote
Interceptors that cant intercept interceptors are fail interceptors. Plain and simple. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1110
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:42:00 -
[284] - Quote
Strange Shadow wrote:Interceptors that cant intercept interceptors are fail interceptors. Plain and simple.
F16 vs Foxbat then
High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
450
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:52:00 -
[285] - Quote
Haven't had a chance to try it out, but IMO its pretty fantastic. Its a nice buff for solo players, be they just visiting nullsec, live in nullsec and need to get around, or are hunting for targets. It is true however that the covops frig was very good for this utility/scout role already, in many years of playing and running through nullsec, I've never lost a helios to a drag bubble or bubble camp. The wolfpacks also look pretty cool, it was always one of my favorite ways to roam, and now its better. Sooner or later we're going to see inty gangs getting smartbombed to punish them warping gate to gate, and it will be awesome. Why can't I delete this signature? |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
216
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:55:00 -
[286] - Quote
Eggs Ackley wrote:I am not real thrilled either. Not because I am a gate camper, more so that T3s were the only ones before.
There can be only 1. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
216
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 16:04:00 -
[287] - Quote
Ari 2M wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:Nobody should be able to counter the combined effort of 15-20 people with ease. You will however counter up to 10 inties with an active thanked Ishtar for instance. Er... you did't get my point. I was talking about gangs of 15-20 people who can almost instawarp to you and they're immune to bubbles. See? T3s have nullifiers too, but they're relatively slow. Interceptors aren't. So. We live in interesting times. A week ago you could engage somebody, because his friends were 3 jumps away. Now they can join their mate in less than 1 minute and kill the killer, lol Not to mention logintraps etc... :) It's time to think really hard and work it out, how to deal with new rules. I can live with extremely fast interceptors. They were made for it. But i'm not sure about their bubble immunity.
we've been doing atron fleets in faction warfare for a while now and killing things like battle cruisers and battleships with cheap throw away ships. |
Scorpio Electra
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.11.22 16:21:00 -
[288] - Quote
I agree with OP - interceptors are nuts at the moment. |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Ark Royal Mining Trained Divinity
63
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Posted - 2013.11.22 16:36:00 -
[289] - Quote
Do NOT touch the interceptors
They are working perfectly. Paper thin and lightening fast. In interceptor is made to........... Intercept.
It makes perfect sense they are nullified. They scouts, not direct combat ships. I'm sure it's already been said here, but how about learning to adapt. Set up a a few rows of smart bombers along the warp vectors in a system and catch the ceptors that way. Or maybe, try setting up camps/hunting the fleet that may be following the ceptors through the system.
Man! I'm terrible at this game, and even I don't cry this much. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1111
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 16:51:00 -
[290] - Quote
Scorpio Electra wrote:I disagree with OP - interceptors are the mutt's nuts at the moment.
FTFU High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3659
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 17:38:00 -
[291] - Quote
Here is my prediction (dons Johnny Carson's old "Great Karnak" hat.... - yeah I'm older than the average Eve player so get off my lawn you punks!)
Bubble camps suck. No pun intended.
They always have.
People will hurf and blurf: "90 percent of PVP happens on gates, noob phag go back to WoW you not l33t boom headshot blob or GTFO".
Multiples of ships on one ship is not PVP. Hello?
Bubbles are why there is a "great wall of carebear" surrounding empire space. Bears on both sides. Bears not in alliance blocs kept in highsec, alliance blocs sell their own brand of carebearing to members who operate safely past the gank (bubbled) pipelines and intel channels. Go to deep null via wormholes and you'll see what I mean. I did it for three years with a Cyclone and it never got scratched (ironically it was destroyed in highsec by a rare serpentis escalation and I still got the loss mail with the LARGE rigs to prove it)
Now, we have a T2 ship with some interdiction nullification capability. This is nothing to sneer at. It's also nothing to gain a fall sense of security over either. A sharp crew with sensor boosted tacklers (also inties) and OGB CS is still going to get their prey. The world is not going to end.
My prediction is this: the intie can travel, and travel fast and well, and get through bubbles. There are activities in the game that have less to do with "shoot you in yer face" and more to do with exploration and transport. That is, a specially travel fitted interceptor may be nigh uncatchable.
Yeah I'm talking an exploration inty with stab. Also imaging a courier inty, a "get out to NPC base XYZ so you can set up a JC" inty. A advanced long range reconnaissance inty. A "get your blueprints to NPC space so you can leave nullsec alone and set up shop" inty.
You know where this is going.
Bubble campers are going to cry rivers. But I won't relish on those tears. The bubble campers rent from very large blocs who even have CSMs. With a host of inties fit for things that allow people to buck the nerd-raging aspergian alpha system of government and control established in nullsec, the call will go up to say "Interceptors are overpowered!!!!1!!!eleven!!!" and into the forums come their thousands of members to parrot that.
So let's enjoy the future fittings, these "poor man's Tengus" while we can, before the camper crowd starting seeing less green on their killboards. We'll know what side of the toast is buttered by how fast the inties get nerfed. |
Trainwreck McGee
Aliastra Gallente Federation
245
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 17:56:00 -
[292] - Quote
NERF GATE CAMPS. gate camps make EVE boring. CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1024
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 17:59:00 -
[293] - Quote
20+ people sitting on a gate full of bubbles better not be expecting to kill everything that comes through.
adapt and enjoy
Don't use EMP damage against 99% EMP resists Don't use Explosive damage against 99% Explosive resists Don't use Kinetic damage against 99% Kinetic resists Don't use Thermal damage against 99% Thermal resists Don't use bubbles to catch bubble nullified ships
Feel free to wave if I fly through your camp. GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûÇGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ-á-á-á-á-á GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûêGûÇGûê GûêGûæGûê GûæGûêGûæ GûêGûÇGûä GûæGûêGûæ-á-á-á-á-á GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûä GûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇGûæGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
798
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 18:32:00 -
[294] - Quote
Scorpio Electra wrote:I agree with OP - interceptors are nuts at the moment.
I too can create new alts to agree with myself.....
But it's kind of boring.
CCP, trading shiny pictures for playability since 2003.. EvE, a cutting edge game. The only game to provide Matrix style gameplay for the masses! (trouble is, most people don't have 9 hours to waste on a one hour fight.) |
SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers Black Legion.
30
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 18:53:00 -
[295] - Quote
The new inties: They're Grrreat!!!!
Despite anyones arguments about them having interdictor immunity, I'm pretty sure in the short, and long term, CCP can see that these ships are now adequately filling their role.
A WHOLE LOTTA SHIPS ARE DYING to them, which is exactly what they want! More Boom!!!! |
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
110
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 02:33:00 -
[296] - Quote
@OP when I started playing eve, there were no bubbles, the game was actually a lot more fun.
Cry me a river, build a bridge or a boat and get over it.
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