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Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
4
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Posted - 2013.09.27 23:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am envisioning a possible misuse of the Personal Depot Stations. ASSUMPTIONS: These will be collidable objects; These will be able to decloak a ship within 2 km.
I can see alliances or blobs deploying a whole slew of these at Stargate entrances. When a player warps in, due to the volume of these depots, they are immediately decloaked at the gate. This is the same principle as cargo containers, but I'm sure they would be quite a bit larger. They are also 'stuck' and can't align to warp because of the sheer volume in space (similar to a miner getting stuck on asteroids). This would essentially allow blobs to take out ships without the need for bubbles at all, and even safeguard certain key systems. It could also allow general griefing in high traffic systems like Jita.
When implementing these objects, can we disallow anchoring within a certain distance from Stargates and other deployable objects?
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Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
284
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Posted - 2013.09.27 23:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's already an "exploit" to drop a lot of anything around a gate, why is this different? Or did you not know it is already considered an exploit? |
SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
44
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Posted - 2013.09.27 23:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Donbe Scurred wrote:It's already an "exploit" to drop a lot of anything around a gate, why is this different? Or did you not know it is already considered an exploit?
^^^^ This if someone starts doing it just report them holy butt tarts, I feel smart around some of you forum whiners.I can barely turn a pc on right and I know more about the rules of exploits in this game. I'm still learning eve too!!! Blue
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Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
621
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Posted - 2013.09.28 00:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
SpoonRECKLESS wrote:Donbe Scurred wrote:It's already an "exploit" to drop a lot of anything around a gate, why is this different? Or did you not know it is already considered an exploit? ^^^^ This if someone starts doing it just report them holy butt tarts, I feel smart around some of you forum whiners.I can barely turn a pc on right and I know more about the rules of exploits in this game. I'm still learning eve too!!!
You don't know as much as you think, young padawan.
It's perfectly legal to toss trash around a gate to decloak. It only becomes an issue if such actions are shown to cause lag or decrease node performance.
I use corpses. Folks rarely have corpses on overview, and they don't seem to cause much graphics load. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
4
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Posted - 2013.09.28 00:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Donbe Scurred wrote:It's already an "exploit" to drop a lot of anything around a gate, why is this different? Or did you not know it is already considered an exploit?
I wasn't aware that it was already considered an exploit. Thank you for explaining. :-) I still think the precautionary restriction on deployment is still sound however, since development is still going on. Might as well throw it in. |
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
286
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Posted - 2013.09.28 00:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
I should have elaborated, as Ms Fappington said, there has to be enough objects to cause lag for it to be an exploit.
My understanding of the way it works is someone reports you, then a GM logs in and goes to the system, if they determine there is enough objects to cause lag then it is considered an exploit.
So one object would not be considered an exploit, multiple objects may be considered an exploit and the exact number is at the discretion of the GM that happens to log in. |
Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
4
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Posted - 2013.09.28 00:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Donbe Scurred wrote:I should have elaborated, as Ms Fappington said, there has to be enough objects to cause lag for it to be an exploit.
My understanding of the way it works is someone reports you, then a GM logs in and goes to the system, if they determine there is enough objects to cause lag then it is considered an exploit.
So one object would not be considered an exploit, multiple objects may be considered an exploit and the exact number is at the discretion of the GM that happens to log in.
Then the speculation as to how many objects it would take to effectively 'mine' a Stargate in this manner is still up in the air since we don't know how big they will be. Since theoretically you can have hundreds of ships and wrecks without any kind of lag, I doubt the lag issue will occur until a ridiculously large number have been deployed. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
102
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Posted - 2013.09.28 01:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
sometimes you will get caught at a gate and your ship is destroyed. now u need to buy a new one. life goes on and no one cares. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1014
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Posted - 2013.09.28 02:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
It also depends entirely on how big these things are. If they are expected to be deployable by a battleship, then I highly doubt they will be able to easily cover a gate area any better than a can or corpses.
Still say that corpses are probably the best idea. Most people will still be scratching their heads trying to figure out how they got decloaked by the time they're dead. I admit it, I outright don't have corpses on my travel overview either. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4108
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Posted - 2013.09.28 02:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It also depends entirely on how big these things are. If they are expected to be deployable by a battleship, then I highly doubt they will be able to easily cover a gate area any better than a can or corpses.
There are a lot of things in EVE that don't make sense, such as 425mm Railguns that require 1500m3 of materials to manufacture but only take up 50m3 themselves.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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KnowUsByTheDead
Volition.
288
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Posted - 2013.09.28 02:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I use corpses. Folks rarely have corpses on overview, and they don't seem to cause much graphics load.
I find this extremely amusing. Thank you. Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
628
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Posted - 2013.09.28 03:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I use corpses. Folks rarely have corpses on overview, and they don't seem to cause much graphics load.
I find this extremely amusing. Thank you.
Best part of it, it becomes self-replenishing. The more podkills you make, the better your decloak trap works.
Contrary to popular belief, you really don't need many items. Mostly you just need to cover the distance between drag bubble and gate. People kind of panic when they hit a bubble, and try to beeline straight for the gate. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
27
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Posted - 2013.09.28 05:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, you really don't need many items. Mostly you just need to cover the distance between drag bubble and gate. People kind of panic when they hit a bubble, and try to beeline straight for the gate.
No sense panicking
covops cloaked- set OV to all, sort distance and wiggle out.
Got uncloaked?- go make a sammich and wake up back home refreshed, with a sammich. You can howl "EVE has consequences" without context or explanation at whoever you like. This will not make it true. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
301
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Posted - 2013.09.28 06:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, you really don't need many items. Mostly you just need to cover the distance between drag bubble and gate. People kind of panic when they hit a bubble, and try to beeline straight for the gate.
No sense panicking covops cloaked- set OV to all, sort distance and wiggle out. Got uncloaked?- go make a sammich and wake up back home refreshed, with a sammich.
True but the number of corpsicles that ended up that way due to "panic"? ... It happens a lot.
As for the issue mentioned - the OP should look up -- eve online can cloud exploit -- have fun with the reading.
This "concern" would be a far more expensive version of that issue.
Hint: It's not an exploit |
Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
4
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Posted - 2013.09.28 16:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:Quote: No sense panicking
covops cloaked- set OV to all, sort distance and wiggle out.
Got uncloaked?- go make a sammich and wake up back home refreshed, with a sammich.
True but the number of corpsicles that ended up that way due to "panic"? ... It happens a lot. As for the issue mentioned - the OP should look up -- eve online can cloud exploit -- have fun with the reading. This "concern" would be a far more expensive version of that issue. Hint: It's not an exploit
I'm less concerned about the uncloaking thing than I am about the possibility of getting 'stuck' on a bunch of collidable objects at the gate and not being able to warp out or even maneuver back to the gates. This in combination with their ability to decloak would pose an extremely hazardous and annoying combination. Since these deployable objects would most likely be able to be placed and forgotten (ex: an offline player would be able to assist in mining a Stargate by placing and logging out), then it makes for a very easy way to blockade a particular system with a bunch of annoying and dangerous collidable objects. I'm not saying it is an exploit, I'm trying to highlight this issue to CCP before it goes live. |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
84
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Posted - 2013.09.28 16:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tsunamicom wrote:.., but I'm sure they would be quite a bit larger.
So you are sure about something, no player has ever seen? Not even on the test server.
Anyway, POCO in low sec have ended up on the planet warpin quite often, resulting in epic bumpage. CCP don't care.
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Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
4
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Posted - 2013.09.28 18:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nam Dnilb wrote:Tsunamicom wrote:.., but I'm sure they would be quite a bit larger. So you are sure about something, no player has ever seen? Not even on the test server. Anyway, POCO in low sec have ended up on the planet warpin quite often, resulting in epic bumpage. CCP don't care.
Either way, the assumption is that they are collidable and thus subject to bumping. The POCO really isn't the same thing as they really don't disrupt the flow of traffic from system to system and you can only place one on grid.
Imagine this: A group of people place a large number of these deployable and collidable objects at each gate in Jita. Jita, being able to support much more in terms of server load, can handle the stress of these objects being in space. They are positioned in such a way that only cruisers can get through them, but many large ships are already bumping off eachother and essentially stuck. The only option to remove them is to attack them, flagging the attackers and even then CCP has indicated they will have a sort of Reinforced Mode anyway. A group of gankers have effectively blocked off large trade in Jita and anyone who tries to remove such devices is flagged and therefore ganked.
Remember that this issue is HYPOTHETICAL based on the above mentioned assumptions since these devices are still in development. The point of the post is to flag this as a possible issue to be reviewed before going live. |
Murk Paradox
Duty. The Cursed Few
536
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Posted - 2013.09.28 18:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tsunamicom wrote:I am envisioning a possible misuse of the Personal Depot Stations. ASSUMPTIONS: These will be collidable objects; These will be able to decloak a ship within 2 km.
I can see alliances or blobs deploying a whole slew of these at Stargate entrances. When a player warps in, due to the volume of these depots, they are immediately decloaked at the gate. This is the same principle as cargo containers, but I'm sure they would be quite a bit larger. They are also 'stuck' and can't align to warp because of the sheer volume in space (similar to a miner getting stuck on asteroids). This would essentially allow blobs to take out ships without the need for bubbles at all, and even safeguard certain key systems. It could also allow general griefing in high traffic systems like Jita.
When implementing these objects, can we disallow anchoring within a certain distance from Stargates and other deployable objects?
Think of the impact on freighters in highsec!
Weeeee. This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate. |
Murk Paradox
Duty. The Cursed Few
536
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 18:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Donbe Scurred wrote:It's already an "exploit" to drop a lot of anything around a gate, why is this different? Or did you not know it is already considered an exploit?
Actually I don't think they could call it an exploit. You as a pilot can only drop 1. There is nothing wrong with dropping 1 item anywhere in space afaik.
Only multiple things. This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate. |
Vicker Lahn'se
Stryker Industries Ocularis Inferno
171
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Posted - 2013.09.28 18:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
What if you're not allowed to deploy a depot on grid with a gate? |
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Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
6
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Posted - 2013.09.28 18:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vicker Lahn'se wrote:What if you're not allowed to deploy a depot on grid with a gate?
That's what I'm asking for. :) Agreed. |
Tsunamicom
KnightWolf Corporation
6
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Posted - 2013.11.21 19:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote: May not be deployed within 6km of another Mobile Depot, within 50km of Stargates or Stations, or within 40km of a Starbase. Automatically decays if abandoned for thirty days.
Thank you for listening CCP! (^_^) |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
7522
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Posted - 2013.11.21 19:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I use corpses. Folks rarely have corpses on overview, and they don't seem to cause much graphics load.
Confirming that a liberal sprinkling of corpses on a gate tends to make bad days for cloakies. That's why I always scoop corpses and spew them on gate. THey also don't disappear after 2 hours like cans... and theyre not on overviews or show up as brackets like drones.... Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
591
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Posted - 2013.11.21 19:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Donbe Scurred wrote:I should have elaborated, as Ms Fappington said, there has to be enough objects to cause lag for it to be an exploit.
My understanding of the way it works is someone reports you, then a GM logs in and goes to the system, if they determine there is enough objects to cause lag then it is considered an exploit.
So one object would not be considered an exploit, multiple objects may be considered an exploit and the exact number is at the discretion of the GM that happens to log in.
That's not how it works. You put up the decloak trap then petition it yourself to get a GM ruling to use against all the other GMs that come along after people send them tear petitions. A domi abandoning cheap drones around the gate is the best way I've found since it's fast and easy. A couple hundred is well within the rules and doesn't cause lag. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4862
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Posted - 2013.11.21 20:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Donbe Scurred wrote:I should have elaborated, as Ms Fappington said, there has to be enough objects to cause lag for it to be an exploit.
My understanding of the way it works is someone reports you, then a GM logs in and goes to the system, if they determine there is enough objects to cause lag then it is considered an exploit.
So one object would not be considered an exploit, multiple objects may be considered an exploit and the exact number is at the discretion of the GM that happens to log in. That's not how it works. You put up the decloak trap then petition it yourself to get a GM ruling to use against all the other GMs that come along after people send them tear petitions. A domi abandoning cheap drones around the gate is the best way I've found since it's fast and easy. A couple hundred is well within the rules and doesn't cause lag. Unless they have gotten extremely liberal lately, no. Usually they will allow several objects (abandoned drones, jet cans, etc.) per ship present, but a couple of hundred from one ship has always been (at least in the past) way over the top. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
591
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 21:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:Donbe Scurred wrote:I should have elaborated, as Ms Fappington said, there has to be enough objects to cause lag for it to be an exploit.
My understanding of the way it works is someone reports you, then a GM logs in and goes to the system, if they determine there is enough objects to cause lag then it is considered an exploit.
So one object would not be considered an exploit, multiple objects may be considered an exploit and the exact number is at the discretion of the GM that happens to log in. That's not how it works. You put up the decloak trap then petition it yourself to get a GM ruling to use against all the other GMs that come along after people send them tear petitions. A domi abandoning cheap drones around the gate is the best way I've found since it's fast and easy. A couple hundred is well within the rules and doesn't cause lag. Unless they have gotten extremely liberal lately, no. Usually they will allow several objects (abandoned drones, jet cans, etc.) per ship present, but a couple of hundred from one ship has always been (at least in the past) way over the top.
It's actually been a long time since I've done it but yeah it was well over 100. It sounds like a lot but it really isn't. There were other people there but I doubt that had anything to do with the actual number of things around. We had no lag so it was ok.
Now a few thousand?...yeah they'll probably get grumpy about that much. Hell, just keep making the cloud until TiDi starts to kick in then remove some. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
73
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Posted - 2013.11.21 22:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dammit!!
I knew stick this post would come handy in future endeavours.
CCP Explanation about Decloaking by debris
Enjoy. |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4636
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Posted - 2013.11.21 22:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
We haven't had a thread like this one in a while ... |
destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
275
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
most of the corpses i have are from the CFC |
Prokofy Neva
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.11.21 23:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Depots are small. Smaller than my ceptor... Go buy some from me in Dix!
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