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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1693
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:09:00 -
[1711] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Harvey James wrote:mm... yes all drone ships have -1 slot so these should also lose a slot But the cruiser isn't a drone ship, so it should lose (a lot) of it's drone bay instead. The cruiser is a drone ship, 125mbps of bandwidth, 500m3 drone bay, 10% drone damage and HP per level of gallente cruiser. These things make it a drone ship, a 50% reduction (which most amarr players hardly call a bonus) does not make a laser ship. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:15:00 -
[1712] - Quote
Actually, it is suppose to be an exploration ship. Drones happen to be a primary weapons system. Also the premise of the ship is to be far from home for along time thus the ability to carry replacement drones.
It is meant to be an exploration ship. A pirate faction exploration ship. |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:25:00 -
[1713] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:Harvey James wrote:mm... yes all drone ships have -1 slot so these should also lose a slot But the cruiser isn't a drone ship, so it should lose (a lot) of it's drone bay instead. The cruiser is a drone ship, 125mbps of bandwidth, 500m3 drone bay, 10% drone damage and HP per level of gallente cruiser. These things make it a drone ship, a 50% reduction (which most amarr players hardly call a bonus) does not make a laser ship.
Logically, if you reduce all this, it stops being a drone ship. Also, like the poster right above said, it's an exploration ship. Not a "drone ship". There already enough of those. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
398
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:34:00 -
[1714] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:Harvey James wrote:mm... yes all drone ships have -1 slot so these should also lose a slot But the cruiser isn't a drone ship, so it should lose (a lot) of it's drone bay instead. The cruiser is a drone ship, 125mbps of bandwidth, 500m3 drone bay, 10% drone damage and HP per level of gallente cruiser. These things make it a drone ship, a 50% reduction (which most amarr players hardly call a bonus) does not make a laser ship. Logically, if you reduce all this, it stops being a drone ship. Also, like the poster right above said, it's an exploration ship. Not a "drone ship". There already enough of those. That doesn't make any sense...
The ship primarily use drones, it's a drone ship, full stop.
There is an exception though : pirate drone ships don't have one less slot. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
779
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:14:00 -
[1715] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:Harvey James wrote:mm... yes all drone ships have -1 slot so these should also lose a slot But the cruiser isn't a drone ship, so it should lose (a lot) of it's drone bay instead. The cruiser is a drone ship, 125mbps of bandwidth, 500m3 drone bay, 10% drone damage and HP per level of gallente cruiser. These things make it a drone ship, a 50% reduction (which most amarr players hardly call a bonus) does not make a laser ship. Logically, if you reduce all this, it stops being a drone ship. Also, like the poster right above said, it's an exploration ship. Not a "drone ship". There already enough of those. There are no more drone ships than there are ships focused to any type of weapon, so if there are enough of drone ships there are enough of all of them thus having "enough" is a meaningless criteria. Aside from stating that if they changed it to be something other than a drone ship offensively it wouldn't be a drone ship you have not put forth a compelling reason for actually doing so. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
20
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Posted - 2013.10.15 23:51:00 -
[1716] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:The cruiser missing the Cloak CPU bonus is intentional, the CPU is set with that in mind.
If you guys can show me fits that you feel SHOULD work with the cloak and don't because of missing the bonus please let me know, but we were able to run 6/10s with it set like this and it gives it some interesting tradeoffs when deciding what to do with it.
It's built like it is because it's supposed to eb a lows sec exploration ship. It needs the current drone stats to do 6/10s and the cloak to survive/move through low sec. the ship is designed this way for a reason. |
epicurus ataraxia
Black Ice Klan
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 01:08:00 -
[1717] - Quote
The more i consider these ships, the more i come to the conclusion, i was wrong to suggest compromises to help make them more acceptable to others. Some people assume they know what the developers have decided, unless they are in secret developers, they have no right to tell us they are only designed for hi sec or low sec.
I believe yes, in my opinion, and I am NOT A DEVELOPER,
That these ships are designed as true explorers,everywhere.
I would be happier to see them with a larger cargo hold, I would like to see them with full bonuses to scanning and relic and data, i want the best when i am far from home. Weapons are good enough,balance is fine for exploring. Extra high on asteros,I would like space for a salvager, some nice sleeper loot out there and salvage drones won't do it.
That is what I want on the explorers, as an explorer,
You might want something completely different,
But unless you are developer or CCP Representative , you have no right or special knowledge to tell us what we may or may not have, or what it has been designed for,
Ccp please continue and ,make these ships Full Fat Explorers. Asteros and Stratios are beautiful. CCP Please Make these ships Truly function as Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength possible with covert ops skill please. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 04:17:00 -
[1718] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Snip
But unless you are developer or CCP Representative , you have no right or special knowledge to tell us what we may or may not have, or what it has been designed for,
Ccp please continue and ,make these ships Full Fat Explorers.
You mean other than the bit where the rest of us read CCP's vision of these ships and that they were designing them around solo low sec exploration & PvP. Though obviously they can still function in other area's.
That said, it is still missing a couple of area's even for that. If this is intended to be a viable PvP scanner then it should have the extended probe launcher CPU bonus like a T3 does. And the concerns over the way the 125 drone bandwidth + cloak + drone assist can be used also seem valid, meaning dropping to 100 bandwidth and giving a laser DPS buff might be a good plan. And help with the character. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1696
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:01:00 -
[1719] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: dropping to 100 bandwidth and giving a laser DPS buff
The shield gank setup using 4 drones and an assumed 25% laser damage which is probably the amount of damage bonus you would be looking for.
Quote: Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Heat Sink Stabilizer II Heat Sink Stabilizer II
10MN Afterburner II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Needs a +4% CPU implant to fit.
Ogre II x4
This setup would still do 975 DPS, while down from the blaster ogre setup most would still say is way to high for a cloaky ship. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:08:00 -
[1720] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: This setup would still do 975 DPS, while down from the blaster ogre setup most would still say is way to high for a cloaky ship.
No web. Ogres don't apply DPS. No Probes. How did you find them in the first place. Though I agree it's still a paper high DPS. But by tying it into guns more, it means you can't do the bypasses on cloak targeting delays people were talking about. And also thematically ties it into lasers better. |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1696
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:10:00 -
[1721] - Quote
As is almost anyone (sorry Caldari pilots) can cross train into the Stratios with minimal SP investment as Minmatar ships have some armor tanks and a decent number have drone bays, Amarr is an armor race with a weapon of drones and Gallente is an armor race with a weapon system of drones, making all those races (relatively) quick to fly an armor drone pirate ship. Caldari being the only ones who are exclusively shield and operate with minimal drones would have a lot of SP to invest to pilot this ship.
If the ship becomes more laser focused it creates longer cross training times for non-Amarr pilots (and even longer for Caldari). Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
450
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:13:00 -
[1722] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:As is almost anyone (sorry Caldari pilots) can cross train into the Stratios with minimal SP investment as Minmatar ships have some armor tanks and a decent number have drone bays, Amarr is an armor race with a weapon of drones and Gallente is an armor race with a weapon system of drones, making all those races (relatively) quick to fly an armor drone pirate ship. Caldari being the only ones who are exclusively shield and operate with minimal drones would have a lot of SP to invest to pilot this ship.
If the ship becomes more laser focused it creates longer cross training times for non-Amarr pilots (and even longer for Caldari). Agreed. But the ship is meant to be laser focused as CCP announced their vision as well as drone focused. Yet currently you will most likely see non laser setups on it due to various reasons (Cap or DPS). If they want that laser focus on it, that's simply something people are going to have to accept. It's not like Amarr pilots can instantly fly Cynabals, or Gila's (Sounds like Gila's may become a missile boat made perfectly for Caldari missile skills after all) |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
769
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 06:20:00 -
[1723] - Quote
I must admit that I wouldn't mind seeing stronger laser bonuses on the Stratios.
The Astero simply doesn't have the highslots for fitting any turrets so it's not really an issue there. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
986
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 10:43:00 -
[1724] - Quote
Overpowered and broken ships, please do not release them without some proper balance. The Tears Must Flow |
Sukur
Shimai of New Eden
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 11:27:00 -
[1725] - Quote
Can this ships decloak and target, or do they have a delay? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1698
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:48:00 -
[1726] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I must admit that I wouldn't mind seeing stronger laser bonuses on the Stratios.
The Astero simply doesn't have the highslots for fitting any turrets so it's not really an issue there.
Go on and suggest a nerf to the bandwidth if it's coupled to stronger laser bonuses, but cut off your hands before you try to suggest nerfing drone bay or cargo hold. That wont actually change the paper DPS by much, it only shifts it from one weapon system to another and pushes the ship more to the Amarr side rather than being balanced between both races. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1698
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:50:00 -
[1727] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:As is almost anyone (sorry Caldari pilots) can cross train into the Stratios with minimal SP investment as Minmatar ships have some armor tanks and a decent number have drone bays, Amarr is an armor race with a weapon of drones and Gallente is an armor race with a weapon system of drones, making all those races (relatively) quick to fly an armor drone pirate ship. Caldari being the only ones who are exclusively shield and operate with minimal drones would have a lot of SP to invest to pilot this ship.
If the ship becomes more laser focused it creates longer cross training times for non-Amarr pilots (and even longer for Caldari). It's not like Amarr pilots can instantly fly Cynabals, or Gila's (Sounds like Gila's may become a missile boat made perfectly for Caldari missile skills after all) No they can't but a drones are a general weapon system that many ships use, pushing the ship towards lasers will off set the ease of access to all explorers. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1698
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 13:54:00 -
[1728] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: But by tying it into guns more, it means you can't do the bypasses on cloak targeting delays people were talking about. And also thematically ties it into lasers better.
This only works if you have a second person that has the target locked and tackled. At that point a Vexor Navy issue will work just as well or better than the Stratios, because it has a drone tracking bonus, for bypassing the targeting delay. You can put a cloaking device on the Vexor Navy Issue keeping it off of D-Scan until a target has been found, once found and tackled it no longer matters if they see you coming. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
48
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:35:00 -
[1729] - Quote
Hold up there folks.
I am a Caldari missile chucker with no SP in turrets. There are a lot of us out there and many of us are explorers. I envision using these ships for exploration. My primary weapon of choice will be drones. My high slots will be cloak, probe launcher, remote reps and possible a tractor/salvager/neut/vamp all depending on whether I think I will be ganked. hmmm, that said I'd probably put neuts and cycle them accordingly.
So, leave the drones bonuses alone and feel free to dump any turret weapon bonuses. Maybe keep/add a cap recharge bonus. Now I can run my neuts and you can still run your lasers. Now we all get something without penalizing one segment of the population with this exploration ship. |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors Insidious Empire
100
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:43:00 -
[1730] - Quote
Checked back into thread to see if people finally calmed down from being ******** and thinking paper dps is actual dps;
Leave disapointed.
Will wait till IQ rises above that of a potato. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
452
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:56:00 -
[1731] - Quote
Complaining that a pirate ship designed around Lasers & Drones (as officially announced by CCP) is too hard to train into for certain races.... Rubbish. Really, get some better arguments, exploration is not some magic thing that makes it different from any other ship. Nor is this the only ship capable of doing exploration. Every ship out there is harder to train into for someone.
I also fail to see how upping laser DPS to make it a 50/50 DPS split pushes it heavily into the Amarr camp The only Amarr thing it currently has going on is the armour resists from cruiser skill. Other than that you will not see Laser set ups on the present build. You will also not see Amarr drones except in very niche applications, you will see Gallente & Minmatar drones. So right now it is heavily on the Gallente side of things with some Minmatar influence for the projectile fits. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
779
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:02:00 -
[1732] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Complaining that a pirate ship designed around Lasers & Drones (as officially announced by CCP) is too hard to train into for certain races.... Rubbish. Really, get some better arguments, exploration is not some magic thing that makes it different from any other ship. Nor is this the only ship capable of doing exploration. Every ship out there is harder to train into for someone.
I also fail to see how upping laser DPS to make it a 50/50 DPS split pushes it heavily into the Amarr camp The only Amarr thing it currently has going on is the armour resists from cruiser skill. Other than that you will not see Laser set ups on the present build. You will also not see Amarr drones except in very niche applications, you will see Gallente & Minmatar drones. So right now it is heavily on the Gallente side of things with some Minmatar influence for the projectile fits. The closer it gets to the 50/50% area the more marginalized damage mods become, which may not necessarily be bad, but it also penalizes fitting it for actual exploration as now devoting highs to mods that support it's task, such as a probe launcher, or rr to increase drone survivability are more penalized than those simply gank fitting it. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1699
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:38:00 -
[1733] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: The only Amarr thing it currently has going on is the armour resists from cruiser skill. Other than that you will not see Laser set ups on the present build. You will also not see Amarr drones except in very niche applications, you will see Gallente & Minmatar drones. So right now it is heavily on the Gallente side of things with some Minmatar influence for the projectile fits. Did you forget that Amarr has a drone ships from destroyers on up now?
What makes the ship Gallente High Drone Bandwidth, Drone Damage Bonus, Armor Tank
What makes the Ship Amarr Large Drone Bay, Drone Damage Bonus, Armor Tank
Lasers seem to be chosed simply and only because of their charge size being 1m^3. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:05:00 -
[1734] - Quote
Yeah I see the eft warrior did not quit despite being proven wrong a thousand times.
Give the ship a laser bonus in line with its Amarrian heritage. "but armour!!!" yeah, yeah... check that to the Gallente side and stop whining,.
1. Add laser bonus to the hull 2. Don't touch anything else
Price and decloak delay make the paper thin eft fits from fairytale land USELESS in actual EVE gameplay. Ship is not overpowered, doesn't need a nerf. (Ice) Miner for life. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
779
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:11:00 -
[1735] - Quote
Eko Fromtv wrote:Yeah I see the eft warrior did not quit despite being proven wrong a thousand times.
Give the ship a laser bonus in line with its Amarrian heritage. "but armour!!!" yeah, yeah... check that to the Gallente side and stop whining I seem to be missing the large number of Gallente ships with resist bonuses. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1699
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:22:00 -
[1736] - Quote
Eko Fromtv wrote:Yeah I see the eft warrior did not quit despite being proven wrong a thousand times. As soon as these can be tested of Sisi the ETF will stop, but until then.....
Eko Fromtv wrote: Give the ship a laser bonus in line with its Amarrian heritage. "but armour!!!" yeah, yeah... check that to the Gallente side and stop whining,.
Amarr is armor too, and they are drones too so is gallente. Both races have contributed to the effectiveness of the ship. The laser's only contributiing factor to the ship is its small charge size, and nothing else there are other weapons that preform better overall without tracking, damage, and projection bonuses. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
455
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 02:43:00 -
[1737] - Quote
The point of a laser bonus is that CCP said they wanted these to be Laser/Drone ships.
Currently, they are not. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:55:00 -
[1738] - Quote
I'm imagining afk cloaking will become just slightly more scary with these new covops moderate to high dps drone ships, being much quicker to get into than recons. Now maybe some supposed afk'ers will reach out and actually badtouch you. |
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:16:00 -
[1739] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: Amarr is armor too, and they are drones too so is gallente. Both races have contributed to the effectiveness of the ship. The laser's only contributiing factor to the ship is its small charge size, and nothing else there are other weapons that preform better overall without tracking, damage, and projection bonuses.
Best way to honour the Amarrian heritage - lasers \o/
(Ice) Miner for life. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
989
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:24:00 -
[1740] - Quote
When you see so many themepark carebears happy with this ships, it's a indication that something is very wrong with them.
This ships are completely overpowered, the absence of power creep fenomenon is something that makes EvE a great sandbox mmo-rpg, please don't change that. The Tears Must Flow |
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