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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
sarkenna
RIVVEN Inc
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 01:08:00 -
[2071] - Quote
Keep the 125mb drone bandwith and get rid of turrets or even a high slot for the matter.
To be honest the energy turrets are totally useless to the explorer and only interesting for pvp gank fits. As this seems to be your concern, just take the turrets away.
Why are they useless to the explorer ? Different reasons:
As told already we need sustained, thus active tanks for our operations...buffer pvp fits that had been spinned around don''t really help. In those scenarios is no place for cap hungry guns anyway. So i am gladly giving them up. You can have them all and cut a highslot if you give me my drones back and give me another low slot.
To be honest this ship right now is nearly useless to the explorer crowd, as exactly those scenarios where you want those ships to be of use (deep in unknown or enemy territory) it now fails the sites you encounter there. So this can by no means be the intention. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1431
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 01:55:00 -
[2072] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:Quote:AFAIK thukker are a tech II company for the minmatar.
if we are going to upgrade a minor npc to full pirate faction then i would go for:
mordu's legion
the lore would be something along the lines that the angel cartel approached the mordu to become the cartel enforcement in the caldari regions (much like was done with serpentis) and deal with the growing threat of the guritas pirates as they are harassing the cartels assets. The caldari navy would be a silent broker as it suits thier interest to have a direct competitor to the hated guritas.
i would still go for an internal repair bonus as i picture these things be brawlers. and internal shield bonus adds to that think asb. its like a phoon and a mael had a baby.
not saying the velocity bonus is bad. i am just saying from what i would like to see it does not mesh with the design. The Thukkers are still not part of the Minmatar, read below. One of the seven tribes of the Minmatar, the Thukker declined to join the Republic in the wake of the Minmatar Rebellion, instead opting to retreat to the Great Wildlands and pursue a nomadic lifestyle there. While they still have ties to the Republic, these actions strained their relationship with the other Tribes, and some still do not trust them. So even if they help with some designs for the Republic they probably would still have their know type of ships and such in The Great Wilderness. I stand by Thukker, The Mordu usually fly Caldari ships, so if it was them, no new ship designs I honestly think with either the bonuses you say or the ones I say would work, I just wanna see them haha.
that was true but we have updates
CCP Falcon wrote:
The Thukker, for the best part, were all living out in the Great Wildlands aboard huge space faring trade caravans. After the Elder Fleet invasion of the Amarr Empire in YC110, quite a few of them returned to the Republic, and now they have full representation on the Tribal Council.
so perhaps but it seems that ccp falcon has ruled out thukker not being full members of the republic now.
so really that just leaves mordu... or we would have to invent some new entitiy all together. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1675
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:37:00 -
[2073] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Never said anything about wanting to blitz 6/10s not once.
Well then, since speed doesn't matter and you're cool with taking 4 minutes to kill the overseer, it seems we've both agreed that it can do 6/10s. Excellent.
Why do I get the sense that very few people in this thread have run a single 6/10, let alone a variety from different pirate factions?
Look, they're all actually quite different. This isn't 7/10s we're talking about, where if you've run one you've more or less run them all. And we're not talking about the old "grind down the overseer's structure" from 7/10s either.
There's a hierarchy to 6s for sure. In terms of difficulty, Guristas < Blood = Angels < Sansha < < < Serpentis. Before the bandwidth reduction a Stratios could break the Sansha overseer's tank with some choice overheating of guns. It wouldn't have a shot at the Serpentis 6. After the bandwidth reduction it's going to struggle in a Blood 6 but be able to finish with max skills. It won't have a shot at a Sansha 6 at all.
By the by, I'm kind of ok with this. Being able to warp cloaked and have the ability to run 5s with some careful piloting and low sec 4s -- which are kind of unused content right now -- is a niche. And if you're in Guristas space you might as well use one anyhow.
But there is a conflict here with the stated purpose. The Stratios cannot do 40% of the 6s out there and will struggle with another 40%. If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense.
Edit: Eh. Re-ran the numbers. Max-skilled Curators will eventually break Skomener Effotber but it's a close thing. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
877
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:44:00 -
[2074] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote: If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, this is a case of the intended purpose for the ship having to take a back seat to the unintended uses (and abuses) that will come up. |
Davos Jovakko
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:53:00 -
[2075] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote: If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, this is a case of the intended purpose for the ship having to take a back seat to the unintended uses (and abuses) that will come up.
But... now its mediocre at both the intended and unintended...?
Pretty much it will now be the new King of High-Sec Exploration, taking the place of the T3s in blitzing down 4/10s.
I guess a lot of people were calling for that? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1675
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:57:00 -
[2076] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote: If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, this is a case of the intended purpose for the ship having to take a back seat to the unintended uses (and abuses) that will come up.
Like I said, the bandwidth reduction doesn't actually bother me. They'll retain a niche. It just won't be the one they set out to fill. |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
58
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 05:23:00 -
[2077] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.
We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.
The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.
This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.
Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.
Thanks
These ships are not even seeded yet and you're already going to nerf them?
Drone bay changes, fine, less room for a **** ton of drones, but the bandwidth change is over the top. Now instead of a full flight of heavies were limited to 4 or a mixed bag? Im not gonna call it dead on arrival, but it certainly has been strangled in the womb and my interest in this cruiser is definitely now dead. You could have at least seeded the ships on sisi before caving. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2039
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 05:56:00 -
[2078] - Quote
My favorite part about this whole thread... with the new speed changes coming with this expansion- people are actually serious about using Ogres.
The Gallente Drone Cocktail wasn't a problem for the 7 years it was used (if for some reason you have some aversion to sentries, outside of you bads that think a rank 5 skill is the end of the world). From the brief time I tinkered with this ship in EFT it's quite capable of 6/10's without ridiculous fits, and also quite a terror in blitzkrieg styled covops warfare (even if blops bridging them is completely impractical).
Also- if you don't like it- don't fly it. The Phantasm has sucked for years, nobody is championing it's rebalance; people just don't buy them. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1035
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 06:09:00 -
[2079] - Quote
Seems strong as an agile, less tanky alternative to the Sin.
Why people are comparing it to the Ishtar is beyond me. Different ships, different roles. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. The difference between an enemy and a friend is that you stab your enemies in the front. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2039
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 06:18:00 -
[2080] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Seems strong as an agile, less tanky alternative to the Sin.
Why people are comparing it to the Ishtar is beyond me. Different ships, different roles.
Because people are asking for essentially an Ishtar (i.e. uncloaky drone bonused ship), this ship is very powerful in a number of situations- some people just don't realize it yet. |
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Alyssa Haginen
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:14:00 -
[2081] - Quote
Stratios.. Needs 125m3 of bandwith...take it from the bay but please don't ruin a good thing by limiting it to only four large drones.
125m3/375m3 bay is workable |
Kubiq
Dark-Rising
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:24:00 -
[2082] - Quote
Make it 125mb/s and 7.5% bonus as others stated, pls |
McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:27:00 -
[2083] - Quote
Fix amarr recons. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:28:00 -
[2084] - Quote
Nar Tha wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.
I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength. I think the concept is good. So T1 Scan Frigates will basically evolve into two different branches, one being Covert Ops Frigates which focus more on scanning itself, and the other one being SoE Faction Ships which focus more on exploration (as in the general PvE/Hacking content). Maybe you should consider even removing the virus bonus from Covert Ops Frigates completely and replace it with something like Scan Deviation or Time or both - to make the difference between both roles even more distinct.
I don't know how many times I have to post it, non-VS bonuses ships are not capable of exploration without V skills. You can't even reliably hack in low sec, and null sec is completely impossible. Firewalls and resto nodes are strength 80, 20/25 VS needs 4 attacks to kill. 30 does it in 3. 20/25 VS can't kill a single virus suppressor from full HP. 20 can't kill a single antivirus. Neither can kill a system core after a single firewall. Anything less than +10 makes exploring basically impossible without Arch/Hacking V. |
Nar Tha
Neural-Boost.com
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:32:00 -
[2085] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Nar Tha wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.
I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength. I think the concept is good. So T1 Scan Frigates will basically evolve into two different branches, one being Covert Ops Frigates which focus more on scanning itself, and the other one being SoE Faction Ships which focus more on exploration (as in the general PvE/Hacking content). Maybe you should consider even removing the virus bonus from Covert Ops Frigates completely and replace it with something like Scan Deviation or Time or both - to make the difference between both roles even more distinct. I don't know how many times I have to post it, non-VS bonuses ships are not capable of exploration without V skills. You can't even reliably hack in low sec, and null sec is completely impossible. Firewalls and resto nodes are strength 80, 20/25 VS needs 4 attacks to kill. 30 does it in 3. 20/25 VS can't kill a single virus suppressor from full HP. 20 can't kill a single antivirus. Neither can kill a system core after a single firewall. Anything less than +10 makes exploring basically impossible without Arch/Hacking V. I know. I hack in null, too. However the idea here is to move Cov Ops completely away from hacking and instead make them even more focused on scanning itself. Because, in my opinion we don't need two ship classes with hacking roles.
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Kubiq
Dark-Rising
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:36:00 -
[2086] - Quote
McBorsk wrote:Fix amarr recons.
What is wrong with them? |
Kibitt Kallinikov
Arma Purgatorium Templis Dragonaors
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:54:00 -
[2087] - Quote
While I understand that the Stratios is meant to have high cargo capacity, could you explain why the Cerberus has more cargo capacity at 650m3? I'm just saying that as far as having space goes, you can fit up a Cerberus with 100m3 of random ammo and still stay out a long time to do Combat Sites. I know this isn't exactly the place to talk about the Cerberus, but due to the concept nerf on the Stratios from 125mb/500m3 drones to 100mb/400m3, it seems more in line with a ratting Cerberus in the sense that fitting a probe on Cerb loses a launcher, just like the drones got nerfed on the concept.
Now, the Stratios isn't "inferior" to the Cerberus in this context - it has a bonus to probing and it can armor tank to fit modules to hack and whatnot, and SoE is a humanitarian group so it naturally is not meant to have the soul-crushing DPS of a Serpentis, Gurista, or Sansha's Nation vessel might have, but I'm just not sure how well it can complete combat sites.
It's nice that you're making SoE faction, but exploration (while just adjusted) does have a new issue - it had a higher entry bar before, but you've brought that crashing down without really expanding on the depth of activities that exploration provides past one single minigame. I dunno, it's just like I've suddenly got Bejeweled popping up in my space ship game (which is cool, variety is the spice of life) but then it gets to the point where I'm playing my space ship game... to play Bejeweled. Again, this isn't the place for that kind of talk, but if you could show me a different place to say these things, I'd gladly do it :p
As for any glaring parts on paper, I can't help but wonder why the Astero has low sig radius compared to the weapon system it fights, but the Stratios has 150, which is larger than its class of ship's gun signature resolution is (125?). Is that to try and prevent "orbit-tanking" on the hull or balance it out since it has a 5th mid? One thing to keep in mind is that agility usually matters more than speed when trying to orbit "sig tank" a turret boat. Either way, due to their high agility, in combat I can see them being used in similar style to the Pilgrim -minus strong neutralizers, plus better drones- with the agility bonus making up for the lack of a tracking disruption bonus. |
Baali Tekitsu
State Protectorate Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:01:00 -
[2088] - Quote
Kubiq wrote:McBorsk wrote:Fix amarr recons. What is wrong with them? Nothing nothing *goes brawl in a Pilgrim |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
603
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:11:00 -
[2089] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Kubiq wrote:McBorsk wrote:Fix amarr recons. What is wrong with them? Nothing nothing *goes brawl in a Pilgrim
Not 100$ true. I 've been doign it a bit. Altough certainly the pilgroim coudl use some extra help on the form of less mass so it can orbit better.
Also the huggin needs more love with its horrible layout and 3/3 weapon system. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kubiq
Dark-Rising
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:14:00 -
[2090] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:Kubiq wrote:McBorsk wrote:Fix amarr recons. What is wrong with them? Nothing nothing *goes brawl in a Pilgrim Not 100$ true. I 've been doign it a bit. Altough certainly the pilgroim coudl use some extra help on the form of less mass so it can orbit better. Also the huggin needs more love with its horrible layout and 3/3 weapon system.
I don't think you can compare huggin and pilgrim...combat recon/force recon. Recons are not brawlers, they are force multipliers. |
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Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Polarized.
101
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:15:00 -
[2091] - Quote
I hate split weapon ships. The stratios should have all it's turrets removed and the bandwidth should be put back up to 125mb/s.
Will not fly |
Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:41:00 -
[2092] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:The cruiser missing the Cloak CPU bonus is intentional, the CPU is set with that in mind.
If you guys can show me fits that you feel SHOULD work with the cloak and don't because of missing the bonus please let me know, but we were able to run 6/10s with it set like this and it gives it some interesting tradeoffs when deciding what to do with it. Could you let us know how it performs in 6/10s now or has the reduction in bandwidth removed the ability to run them, with any expectation of completing them in a reasonable time
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Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:57:00 -
[2093] - Quote
Nar Tha wrote: I know. I hack in null, too. While I currently do it with T1 frigs and T1 analyzer modules (because lack of skills) I do agree with you that a dedicated exploration ship should have a +10 bonus because with less (i.e. what I am using at the moment) at least ~20% of the L3/4 containers will pop. However the idea here is to move Cov Ops completely away from hacking and instead make them even more focused on scanning itself. Because, in my opinion we don't need two ship classes with hacking roles.
I'm interested as to what role you have in mind for cov-ops if not scanning out and running data & relic sites. What would "more focused on scanning itself" be as a role. what exactly do you see them doing? If there is a better way to use my buzzard and possibly Astero if I get 1 other than running into nul to scan out valuable data and relic sites, I'd be very interested to know.
** It isn't actually 2 ship classes with duplicate roles, it is Tech 1 and Tech 2 versions of the same ships. |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors Insidious Empire
103
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 09:38:00 -
[2094] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:I hate split weapon ships. The stratios should have all it's turrets removed and the bandwidth should be put back up to 125mb/s.
Will not fly
Qft.
And thus hilarity reigns as the whining, clueless masses win and it becomes another one of *those* ships, which no one will use thanks to vastly superior alternatives. Know I shouldn't pre emptively write it off but lets be realistic here, it's the way it's going to end up so lets all pack up and go home.
Good game, good game. |
Igor Nappi
Perkone Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 10:03:00 -
[2095] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:I hate split weapon ships. The stratios should have all it's turrets removed and the bandwidth should be put back up to 125mb/s.
Will not fly
Forums ate my post but this is in a nutshell what I think, too. Most people will probably stick to their Tengus and Ishtars. |
Nar Tha
Neural-Boost.com
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 10:04:00 -
[2096] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Nar Tha wrote: I know. I hack in null, too. While I currently do it with T1 frigs and T1 analyzer modules (because lack of skills) I do agree with you that a dedicated exploration ship should have a +10 bonus because with less (i.e. what I am using at the moment) at least ~20% of the L3/4 containers will pop. However the idea here is to move Cov Ops completely away from hacking and instead make them even more focused on scanning itself. Because, in my opinion we don't need two ship classes with hacking roles.
I'm interested as to what role you have in mind for cov-ops if not scanning out and running data & relic sites. What would "more focused on scanning itself" be as a role. what exactly do you see them doing? If there is a better way to use my buzzard and possibly Astero if I get 1 other than running into nul to scan out valuable data and relic sites, I'd be very interested to know. ** It isn't actually 2 ship classes with duplicate roles, it is Tech 1 and Tech 2 versions of the same ships. Well, Cov Ops would excel at scouting (enemy territory, daily check of signatures in wormhole, whatever). If they would get a scan time bonus instead of the virus strength they would also be extremely fast. However, it was just an idea. I understand that it's a bit illogical to the standard T1 -> T2 progression.
Quinn Corvez wrote:I hate split weapon ships. The stratios should have all it's turrets removed and the bandwidth should be put back up to 125mb/s.
Will not fly I'd also like it much more that way. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 10:23:00 -
[2097] - Quote
ConranAntoni wrote:Quinn Corvez wrote:I hate split weapon ships. The stratios should have all it's turrets removed and the bandwidth should be put back up to 125mb/s.
Will not fly Qft. And thus hilarity reigns as the whining, clueless masses win and it becomes another one of *those* ships, which no one will use thanks to vastly superior alternatives. Know I shouldn't pre emptively write it off but lets be realistic here, it's the way it's going to end up so lets all pack up and go home. Good game, good game.
Four neuts on a 125mbit ship is still very overpowered.
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Nar Tha
Neural-Boost.com
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 10:28:00 -
[2098] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:ConranAntoni wrote:Quinn Corvez wrote:I hate split weapon ships. The stratios should have all it's turrets removed and the bandwidth should be put back up to 125mb/s.
Will not fly Qft. And thus hilarity reigns as the whining, clueless masses win and it becomes another one of *those* ships, which no one will use thanks to vastly superior alternatives. Know I shouldn't pre emptively write it off but lets be realistic here, it's the way it's going to end up so lets all pack up and go home. Good game, good game. Four neuts on a 125mbit ship is still very overpowered. Make it only 2 high slots. One for Cloak, one for probe launcher. Adjust CPU/Powergrid accordingly. |
Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 10:35:00 -
[2099] - Quote
Nar Tha wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Nar Tha wrote: I know. I hack in null, too. While I currently do it with T1 frigs and T1 analyzer modules (because lack of skills) I do agree with you that a dedicated exploration ship should have a +10 bonus because with less (i.e. what I am using at the moment) at least ~20% of the L3/4 containers will pop. However the idea here is to move Cov Ops completely away from hacking and instead make them even more focused on scanning itself. Because, in my opinion we don't need two ship classes with hacking roles.
I'm interested as to what role you have in mind for cov-ops if not scanning out and running data & relic sites. What would "more focused on scanning itself" be as a role. what exactly do you see them doing? If there is a better way to use my buzzard and possibly Astero if I get 1 other than running into nul to scan out valuable data and relic sites, I'd be very interested to know. ** It isn't actually 2 ship classes with duplicate roles, it is Tech 1 and Tech 2 versions of the same ships. Well, Cov Ops would excel at scouting (enemy territory, wormhole life (daily check of signatures, looking for exit routes), or just basically in any situation you want to scan for signatures or PvP related stuff in a small, agile, fast, cov ops cloaked ship before bringing in your real ship/your fleet or before doing other stuff with the gathered information). If they would get a scan time bonus instead of the virus strength they would also be extremely fast. However, it was just an idea. I understand that it's a bit illogical to the standard T1 -> T2 progression. Quinn Corvez wrote:I hate split weapon ships. The stratios should have all it's turrets removed and the bandwidth should be put back up to 125mb/s.
Will not fly I'd also like it much more that way. Yes Cov-ops ships do excel at scouting as you suggested and with the correct rigs do it quite fast but there is as stated T1 to T2 progression and switching ship roles in that progression makes absolutely no sense. More than that though, if you don't live in nulsec but like to indulge in scanning out and running the data and relic sites a cov-ops is by far the best option. Who wants to spend a day or 2 in nulsec running sites only to lose everything you hacked to a gate camp on the way home?
I do understand a relative new comer being a little off course here, so for Nar Tha, keep training buddy. Get your cov-ops with 10% virus bonus and watch you income, survivability and overall fun grow. It is the same ship you are flying now, only MUCH better.
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Weird Earb
Raumpatrouille Roamers
0
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Posted - 2013.10.25 10:37:00 -
[2100] - Quote
why is there never ever a ship with CALDARI bonus :/
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