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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1289
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Posted - 2013.10.04 05:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
When this thing goes live on Monday, given you have completely flip-flopped, how many people do you think will have been on Sisi to get those skills learned. (...waiting for obligatory fanboi response about how everyone had time to learn them).
And then, you plan on doing a skill mirror sometime in the next week, or week after, so if someone has not learned the skills on TQ by then, they will be shut out of the module again, until they retrain them.
And no, why would I learn the 2 skills on TQ, in the hopes that CCP decides that the module will stay, and the skills will be needed (and fanboi's, read CCP's own disclaimer about how the skills could change, train at your own risk).
So how about exhibiting some common sense, and give everyone on Sisi the skills to support the module, or enough SP to train them, or turn down the pre-req's to level 1.
Given the ridiculously short testing window we have, it would behoove you to get as many people testing the module as quickly as possible. Unless, of course, you are just paying lip service to the testers, as you did with the drone debacle. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Flashbang Thereal
S0utherN Comfort Against ALL Authorities
4
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Posted - 2013.10.04 09:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
U mad bro??:)
I suspect u dont join masstests. Becouse if u did, you would already have enough free skillpoints that you could use on getting the skill for bastion module without bugging ccp about it. Joining masstest = 2000000free skillpoint on sisi. And there will be more than enough masstests for u to join. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1290
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Flashbang Thereal wrote:U mad bro??:)
I suspect u dont join masstests. Becouse if u did, you would already have enough free skillpoints that you could use on getting the skill for bastion module without bugging ccp about it. Joining masstest = 2000000free skillpoint on sisi. And there will be more than enough masstests for u to join.
I doubt the fisrt masstest will be on Monday, or even in the first few days on the new iteration being on Sisi. And given the pre-req's, people would have to wait 3-6 days before their training was complete. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Tilly Delnero
Licorne Ventures Ltd.
46
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
There's supposed to be a new mirror at some point in the next fortnight, so people will be up to date soon enough. I imagine there might be a few masstests leading up Winter, so skill points shouldn't be too much of an issue if people are able participate. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1290
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tilly Delnero wrote:There's supposed to be a new mirror at some point in the next fortnight, so people will be up to date soon enough. I imagine there might be a few masstests leading up Winter, so skill points shouldn't be too much of an issue if people are able participate.
The point is the timeline.
It is now Oct 4th. These guys will likely have to lock down code a week before Nov 19th, so we are looking at roughly a 5 week window by the time the new iteration is on Sisi, to when the changes are finalized. These guys have shown with their flip-flops and their own words in the 230 page Marauder thread, that they have zero clue what to do with Marauders and are looking for a lot of feedback to get them right.
How are they going to get that feedback if people are waiting a week to get the skills to use the Bastion module? The window gets extremely tight.
And then with the new mirror a week or 2 after this mess goes on Sisi, they have to relearn the skills. And remember, CCP has flatly stated the skill pre-req's might change, so learning the skills on TQ in anticipation of the mirror is just plain dumb.
If CCP just turned down the pre-req's to 1, or gave everyone SP to learn the skills immediately, without waiting for any masstests, that would be the reasonable approach. Further, I am looking to get about 10 or 12 people together to actually test Incursions with Paladins. Now I have to co-ordinate ALL off them, across many TZ's, to be online for a masstest, to get the SP to learn the skills, BEFORE we can test Incursions?????
The Bastion skill must be easily learned on Sisi. CCP wants to make the pre-req's more challenging on TQ, no problem. But for testing, it has to be immediate. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Veyer Erastus
Red-dormice
27
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Tilly Delnero wrote:There's supposed to be a new mirror at some point in the next fortnight, so people will be up to date soon enough. I imagine there might be a few masstests leading up Winter, so skill points shouldn't be too much of an issue if people are able participate. The point is the timeline. It is now Oct 4th. These guys will likely have to lock down code a week before Nov 19th, so we are looking at roughly a 5 week window by the time the new iteration is on Sisi, to when the changes are finalized. These guys have shown with their flip-flops and their own words in the 230 page Marauder thread, that they have zero clue what to do with Marauders and are looking for a lot of feedback to get them right. How are they going to get that feedback if people are waiting a week to get the skills to use the Bastion module? The window gets extremely tight. And then with the new mirror a week or 2 after this mess goes on Sisi, they have to relearn the skills. And remember, CCP has flatly stated the skill pre-req's might change, so learning the skills on TQ in anticipation of the mirror is just plain dumb. If CCP just turned down the pre-req's to 1, or gave everyone SP to learn the skills immediately, without waiting for any masstests, that would be the reasonable approach. Further, I am looking to get about 10 or 12 people together to actually test Incursions with Paladins. Now I have to co-ordinate ALL off them, across many TZ's, to be online for a masstest, to get the SP to learn the skills, BEFORE we can test Incursions????? The Bastion skill must be easily learned on Sisi. CCP wants to make the pre-req's more challenging on TQ, no problem. But for testing, it has to be immediate.
You could, you know, test something else? It's not like marauders are the only change here.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11967
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Posted - 2013.10.04 23:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Veyer Erastus wrote: You could, you know, test something else? It's not like marauders are the only change here.
What if Marauders are what he's really interested in.
Since Dinsdale has made an unequivocably useful and helpful suggestion, I will support it. There's literally no downside to doing something like giving SiSi characters a few million temporarily allocatable SP so that a significant new feature can be properly tested. The extra SP can be wiped out on the next mirror update if the idea gets anyones jimmies in a twist. The Test Server is supposed to be there to test things.
1 Kings 12:11
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
319
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Posted - 2013.10.05 01:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
it's not out there yet and I'm sure they've thought at least a little bit about this module and its testing. How it works, it doesn't look like it will need a huge amount of testing for people to get a feel for it. Deploy and see how it operates.
First mass test and some can dump 2 mill SP into the skill in question too.
iirc - they have stubbed required skills on items for testing before. All they'd need to do for immediate testing is stub any pre-req on the item to let folks start using it (no bonuses) while letting any bonus effects work as folks train up. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1291
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Posted - 2013.10.05 01:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mocam wrote:it's not out there yet and I'm sure they've thought at least a little bit about this module and its testing. How it works, it doesn't look like it will need a huge amount of testing for people to get a feel for it. Deploy and see how it operates. First mass test and some can dump 2 mill SP into the skill in question too. iirc - they have stubbed required skills on items for testing before. All they'd need to do for immediate testing is stub any pre-req on the item to let folks start using it (no bonuses) while letting any bonus effects work as folks train up.
Mocam, there is now a 240 page thread on Marauder changes. The devs' came up with a redesign, were thrown on a huge bonfire by the players, did a complete redesign, thrown on a bigger bonfire, and now have reverted back to 1st redesign, and have stated they want feedback.
Does that sound like they have settled on the next specs? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Montevius Williams
The Scope Gallente Federation
581
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 03:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Veyer Erastus wrote: You could, you know, test something else? It's not like marauders are the only change here.
What if Marauders are what he's really interested in. Since Dinsdale has made an unequivocably useful and helpful suggestion, I will support it. There's literally no downside to doing something like giving SiSi characters a few million temporarily allocatable SP so that a significant new feature can be properly tested. The extra SP can be wiped out on the next mirror update if the idea gets anyones jimmies in a twist. The Test Server is supposed to be there to test things.
I agree with this 1000%..
LOL at people getting worked up over free test points on the TEST SERVER hahahaha... "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
319
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Posted - 2013.10.05 04:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ok... bastion mode - it'll need testing a bit but the hull needs looking at first.
I still think it can simply have the pre-req removed vs "all 5s". As you train up, you can use it better. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
405
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Posted - 2013.10.05 17:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Don't bog down people's clones with skills pertaining to modules that can only be fit on ships nobody will use due to being too underwhelming to consider as an option for literally anything. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1291
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Posted - 2013.10.05 17:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Don't bog down people's clones with skills pertaining to modules that can only be fit on ships nobody will use due to being too underwhelming to consider as an option for literally anything.
It is the test server. Are you concerned about your clone cost on the test server???? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Tilly Delnero
Licorne Ventures Ltd.
47
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Posted - 2013.10.06 12:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Aglais wrote:Don't bog down people's clones with skills pertaining to modules that can only be fit on ships nobody will use due to being too underwhelming to consider as an option for literally anything. It is the test server. Are you concerned about your clone cost on the test server???? I hear insurance fraud is hard for some people. |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
96
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Posted - 2013.10.06 12:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
i was under the impression they save testing of new features for tranquility The Wormhole Kid |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1725
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
If the team that owns the changes wants this to happen we will try and work something out. I'm, as I have said before, very anti giving out excess sp on the test server as it is one of the only ways we have to incentivize mass tests right now. If it were to happen, it would be more likely we give them the skills they need directly rather than blanket skill points. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1294
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Posted - 2013.10.07 02:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:If the team that owns the changes wants this to happen we will try and work something out. I'm, as I have said before, very anti giving out excess sp on the test server as it is one of the only ways we have to incentivize mass tests right now. If it were to happen, it would be more likely we give them the skills they need directly rather than blanket skill points.
Fine, don't give out the skills. Just change the pre-req's to level 1, at least for the 1st few weeks.
You want people to test stuff, then don't burden them with 4 plus day skill trains, before they can even think of testing, then force them to retrain the same skills when you do a mirror from TQ a couple weeks from now. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Rikimaru Ichikawa
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2013.10.07 03:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:If the team that owns the changes wants this to happen we will try and work something out. I'm, as I have said before, very anti giving out excess sp on the test server as it is one of the only ways we have to incentivize mass tests right now. If it were to happen, it would be more likely we give them the skills they need directly rather than blanket skill points.
this would be quite good. Then you could take away the points in the skill once it goes live or no longer needs testing. Seems like it would serve the purpose of the heavy testing required for Marauders - especially before they go live. As you know, every day of coding counts. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1748
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 04:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:If the team that owns the changes wants this to happen we will try and work something out. I'm, as I have said before, very anti giving out excess sp on the test server as it is one of the only ways we have to incentivize mass tests right now. If it were to happen, it would be more likely we give them the skills they need directly rather than blanket skill points. I don't generally agree with Dinsdale on anything. In this case, I have to. Is it completely outside the realm of possibility that these ships be tied solely to something like 'Marauder Test Skill' for the first couple weeks before the mirror, and be fully bonused at level 1? Just dump the book in the redeeming system on SiSi and let people test.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
1728
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Posted - 2013.10.07 06:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:If the team that owns the changes wants this to happen we will try and work something out. I'm, as I have said before, very anti giving out excess sp on the test server as it is one of the only ways we have to incentivize mass tests right now. If it were to happen, it would be more likely we give them the skills they need directly rather than blanket skill points. I don't generally agree with Dinsdale on anything. In this case, I have to. Is it completely outside the realm of possibility that these ships be tied solely to something like 'Marauder Test Skill' for the first couple weeks before the mirror, and be fully bonused at level 1? Just dump the book in the redeeming system on SiSi and let people test.
Both this and Dinsdales reply to me above are more work than creating and running a script that gives everyone a certain skill at a certain level, I think. That would also be automatically cleaned up the next time we mirror, which is convenient as it doesn't require further follow up. As I say, will see what the team is saying. CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12008
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Posted - 2013.10.07 12:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:If the team that owns the changes wants this to happen we will try and work something out. I'm, as I have said before, very anti giving out excess sp on the test server as it is one of the only ways we have to incentivize mass tests right now. If it were to happen, it would be more likely we give them the skills they need directly rather than blanket skill points. I don't generally agree with Dinsdale on anything. In this case, I have to. Is it completely outside the realm of possibility that these ships be tied solely to something like 'Marauder Test Skill' for the first couple weeks before the mirror, and be fully bonused at level 1? Just dump the book in the redeeming system on SiSi and let people test. Both this and Dinsdales reply to me above are more work than creating and running a script that gives everyone a certain skill at a certain level, I think. That would also be automatically cleaned up the next time we mirror, which is convenient as it doesn't require further follow up. As I say, will see what the team is saying.
The exact mechanism doesn't really matter as long as the effect is the same. Thanks for looking at this.
1 Kings 12:11
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1912
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Posted - 2013.10.07 14:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd say "this is a good idea" but as a member, nay, key figure in the nullsec cartel, that may poison the idea in the OP's mind. Therefore, I am absolutely against this in the strongest possible terms Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
740
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Posted - 2013.10.07 15:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Oh hello!
We found a slightly different solution to this problem: We modified our moveme script a bit to enable giving out needed skills for operating Marauders and the Bastion module. Please join the channel "moveme" and write "Bastion" into the channel. This will work only when my character CCP Habakuk3 is present in the channel. Please reply here if you find any problems with the script (I have to admit, that it is not 100% tested).
Enjoy!
CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock-á Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1304
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Posted - 2013.10.07 15:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Oh hello!
We found a slightly different solution to this problem: We modified our moveme script a bit to enable giving out needed skills for operating Marauders and the Bastion module. Please join the channel "moveme" and write "Bastion" into the channel. This will work only when my character CCP Habakuk3 is present in the channel. Please reply here if you find any problems with the script (I have to admit, that it is not 100% tested).
Enjoy!
Once we get you to run this script, how long is it good for? The session that the player is on Sisi for, or quasi-permanent = next mirror, or some other period? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
740
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Posted - 2013.10.07 15:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:Oh hello!
We found a slightly different solution to this problem: We modified our moveme script a bit to enable giving out needed skills for operating Marauders and the Bastion module. Please join the channel "moveme" and write "Bastion" into the channel. This will work only when my character CCP Habakuk3 is present in the channel. Please reply here if you find any problems with the script (I have to admit, that it is not 100% tested).
Enjoy!
Once we get you to run this script, how long is it good for? The session that the player is on Sisi for, or quasi-permanent = next mirror, or some other period?
For this mirror. The next mirror will reset it. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock-á Bug reporting | Mass Testing |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1304
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Posted - 2013.10.07 15:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Habakuk wrote:Oh hello!
We found a slightly different solution to this problem: We modified our moveme script a bit to enable giving out needed skills for operating Marauders and the Bastion module. Please join the channel "moveme" and write "Bastion" into the channel. This will work only when my character CCP Habakuk3 is present in the channel. Please reply here if you find any problems with the script (I have to admit, that it is not 100% tested).
Enjoy!
Once we get you to run this script, how long is it good for? The session that the player is on Sisi for, or quasi-permanent = next mirror, or some other period? For this mirror. The next mirror will reset it.
OK, thanks. I will direct my Marauder Incursion friends to this link. I am really hoping to organize a group Marauder testing this week. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
stoicfaux
3209
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Posted - 2013.10.07 15:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Oh hello!
We found a slightly different solution to this problem: We modified our moveme script a bit to enable giving out needed skills for operating Marauders and the Bastion module. Please join the channel "moveme" and write "Bastion" into the channel. This will work only when my character CCP Habakuk3 is present in the channel. Please reply here if you find any problems with the script (I have to admit, that it is not 100% tested).
Enjoy!
Awesome! TY and it worked.
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1748
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Posted - 2013.10.07 15:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Oh hello!
We found a slightly different solution to this problem: We modified our moveme script a bit to enable giving out needed skills for operating Marauders and the Bastion module. Please join the channel "moveme" and write "Bastion" into the channel. This will work only when my character CCP Habakuk3 is present in the channel. Please reply here if you find any problems with the script (I have to admit, that it is not 100% tested).
Enjoy!
Thanks for enabling this functionality for the time being, folks. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Barry Kring
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.10.07 16:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
We also need sov, and deadspace modules, not to mention MJD skills. Or you are not going to get proper feedback. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1304
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Posted - 2013.10.07 16:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Barry Kring wrote:We also need sov, and deadspace modules, not to mention MJD skills. Or you are not going to get proper feedback.
Yeah, I had forgotten about the MJD skills needed. Never needed them before, but for testing Marauders, with the Bastion module, they are pretty much mandatory. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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