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The laws of physics in EVE

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Doomed Predator	Posted - 2006.01.22 17:16:00 - [1] I've been laying eve for 6 months now.It's 1 of the best games ever.But there is 1 thingmission which i find very anoying.The lack physics.I mean when a powerful space telescope explodes there is a huge explosin.And thats it.Wouldn't the exposion push your ship away or even GASP damage it.So why not make these explosions do more than just make you droll when you first see it. 1)The first thing would be that the destroyed object would act like a XXXXXXXXL smartbomb.it would do X damage(X depending on the size and makeup of the object), and the explosion would have an Y radious(Y being the size and makeup of the object).So if you were to close to the explosion you would sustain X damage.The farther away the less damage.The damage type would depend on the objectem forcefields would do EM damage,structures Explosive and thermal,ships would cause 25% EM,25% EXP,25% KIN, 25% THERM) 2)The explosion wold move you a distance form the center of the explosion at a very high velocity.Even throwing you out of warp alinghment or warp if the explosion was in your path.This could cause a new form of travel.Using a special module that would deploy and detonate small bombs behind your ship and pushing it forwad at very high speed(1500% boost),but the explosion would dmg you.The would be 3 classes od this transport frig,cruise and bs.But if a frig would use a cruise version of this for of propulsion it would be destroyed in 3-4 explosion to prevent abuse. 3.When you would activate the self-destruct on your ship it would make your generator go critical and cause it to explode causing dmg ,frigs would do a lot of dmg to other frigs and almost to other ships,cruisers would insta pop frigs and cripple cruisers,battlesips would obliterate frigs,almost whipe out cruisers and cause heavy damage to other battleships. Note:if your ship would be destroyed in combat the generator would be inclosed in a containment field and would not go critical,it would only cause the dmg from the ships explosion
Macro Slasher	Posted - 2006.01.22 17:41:00 - [2] I've been myself wondering about this one too... It should happen. A good smartbomb should throw frigate some 50km away for instance if it didn't kill it
Cormeus Vanks	Posted - 2006.01.22 18:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Doomed Predator 3.When you would activate the self-destruct... it [would] explode causing dmg ,frigs would do a lot of dmg to other frigs and almost to other ships,cruisers would insta pop frigs and cripple cruisers,battlesips would obliterate frigs,almost whipe out cruisers and cause heavy damage to other battleships. And how exactly is your pod supposed to survive all this?
Siegfried vonRichthofen	Posted - 2006.01.22 18:50:00 - [4] The idea is nice, and for the POD: The dmg to a pod is calculated AFTER your ship was destroyed though that explosion. Means: Explosion pops the ship, not the POD.. if another explosion follow the the POD will be harmed. But that would be real a pain in the %º$"º when someone targets my container i left, with a smartbomb and then my POD got nuked away. (Would that even give him negative SS? Since he shot my conti and not my POD?)
Azzmet Shrapt	Posted - 2006.01.23 01:04:00 - [5] Although It would be interesting I'm not for it. I think your shields can easily withstand conventional explosions when nuclear weapons are considered primative weak and outdated. EVE Applets - Every little feature you've ever wanted..
Void Dragon	Posted - 2006.01.23 03:05:00 - [6] It cant be done because the serves cant handle it. Iknow this to be true because on the test server they tried real physics with missiles and it cased ultra lag so imagine if it was extended to everyting else.
ManOfHonor	Posted - 2006.01.23 03:37:00 - [7] Edited by: ManOfHonor on 23/01/2006 03:38:16 Originally by: Azzmet Shrapt Although It would be interesting I'm not for it. I think your shields can easily withstand conventional explosions when nuclear weapons are considered primative weak and outdated. The (EM)Thor Citadel Torpedo (Explo)Exterminator f.o.f. light missile (Explo)Eradicator f.o.f. heavy missile (Explo)Obliterator f.o.f. cruise missile (Explo)Piranha light missile (Explo)Bane torpedo (Explo)Phalanx rocket All use nuclear warheads, I hardly think this makes them outdated and weak, I also suspect the rest of the EMP missiles use nuclear warheads to generate their EM (note that the EM Citadel uses a nuke), and that the doom torpedo also uses a nuclear warhead (not stated in its description, but its the only explo missile that doesn't mention it using a nuclear warhead). Note, also that the Depleated Uranium proj ammo and the Nuclear proj ammo use nuclear material, and the EMP proj ammo might. Also, if a 'conventional' epxlosion shouldn't be causing damage, how exactly are all of those missiles doing damage, the explosions of other things seem much more intense than even torpedoes. (torps don't blank our your entire screen, now do they?) These kinds of physics would be grand.... But the servers just can't handle it... Though... Once the new servers are up... * smiles wistfully * _____________________________ NPC Asteroid Belt Bases Evil Is So Much Funner
Cormeus Vanks	Posted - 2006.01.23 07:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Siegfried vonRichthofen The idea is nice, and for the POD: The dmg to a pod is calculated AFTER your ship was destroyed though that explosion. Means: Explosion pops the ship, not the POD.. I thought this suggestion was being made in the name of realism. How can a pod be realistically expected to emerge unscathed from the middle of an explosion?
EXZODIER	Posted - 2006.01.23 11:03:00 - [9] there used to be something called splash damage wich would of used all this something exploding casuing damage (we even had space mines -hehe 10k mines laid in pf-346 only for GM to come and say we casued lag and take them all away) but there was a problem where when your ship blew up NPC and PC missiles would explode from blast range and cause u to get insta poded - HMMMMMMMM the end ? i think not
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.01.23 11:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Doomed Predator I've been laying eve for 6 months now. Does her dad know?

Yurameki Daishun	Posted - 2006.01.23 15:38:00 - [11] I would love to see that happen, plus I'd like some better collision detection, I hate my AI flying through the side of a starbase... but I think it would be greally great to see things explode and do damage, and push things, etc., would add a new element to combat, I think missile impacts and the like should also slow a ship down or change it's velocity depending on the point of impact, this is all taken into account by the mass of the ship, just like thrusters!!
Doomed Predator	Posted - 2006.01.23 17:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Cormeus Vanks Originally by: Siegfried vonRichthofen The idea is nice, and for the POD: The dmg to a pod is calculated AFTER your ship was destroyed though that explosion. Means: Explosion pops the ship, not the POD.. I thought this suggestion was being made in the name of realism. How can a pod be realistically expected to emerge unscathed from the middle of an explosion? One solution would be just milisecs before the explosion happened a super powerful shield that would last 1 or 2 seconds would be generated by the pod and so you would survive.
Cormeus Vanks	Posted - 2006.01.23 23:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Doomed Predator One solution would be just milisecs before the explosion happened a super powerful shield that would last 1 or 2 seconds would be generated by the pod and so you would survive. Ok, I'll buy that.
Azzmet Shrapt	Posted - 2006.01.23 23:28:00 - [14] Originally by: ManOfHonor Edited by: ManOfHonor on 23/01/2006 03:38:16 Originally by: Azzmet Shrapt Although It would be interesting I'm not for it. I think your shields can easily withstand conventional explosions when nuclear weapons are considered primative weak and outdated. The (EM)Thor Citadel Torpedo (Explo)Exterminator f.o.f. light missile (Explo)Eradicator f.o.f. heavy missile (Explo)Obliterator f.o.f. cruise missile (Explo)Piranha light missile (Explo)Bane torpedo (Explo)Phalanx rocket All use nuclear warheads, I hardly think this makes them outdated and weak, I also suspect the rest of the EMP missiles use nuclear warheads to generate their EM (note that the EM Citadel uses a nuke), and that the doom torpedo also uses a nuclear warhead (not stated in its description, but its the only explo missile that doesn't mention it using a nuclear warhead). Note, also that the Depleated Uranium proj ammo and the Nuclear proj ammo use nuclear material, and the EMP proj ammo might. Also, if a 'conventional' epxlosion shouldn't be causing damage, how exactly are all of those missiles doing damage, the explosions of other things seem much more intense than even torpedoes. (torps don't blank our your entire screen, now do they?) These kinds of physics would be grand.... But the servers just can't handle it... Though... Once the new servers are up... * smiles wistfully * Sorry, I must have misread something. I think I was looking at the description for nuclear projectile or hybrid ammo though, where it said nuclear weapons were out of use. Originally by: Nuclear Small Projectile Ammo Small Projectile Ammo. Nuclear weapons are considered by most races to be crude and primitive. However, the Minmatar still favor them over more sophisticated weapons due to the abundance of materials for plutonium production in Minmatar space. i think that means they are primitive. Also, a possible explanation of the size of the explosions could be that nuclear explosions are just more intense. It is one thing to have just heat and energy being released, but it's quite another to have very upset neutrons hurtling toward you at 1/10 the speed of light, not to mention alpha particles and high fluctuations in charge due to the electrons and positrons being emmitted. And if you survived all that, let's hope you have fun with the Gamma radiation. EVE Applets - Every little feature you've ever wanted..
theRaptor	Posted - 2006.01.24 02:22:00 - [15] EVE doesn't have newtonian physics, get over it. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Kisaku	Posted - 2006.01.24 03:37:00 - [16] The number one problem with this idea is for drone users. Drones get in real close to their targets, thus any explosion type function would total my drones. Plus anyone who actively uses drones knows that if you don't pay attention they're liable to go off and attack a structure, no matter how many enemys surround you. I'd really hate to forget to tell my drones to attack a target, and they start eating away at some humongus structure right next to me. XD
NattyDreadlock	Posted - 2006.01.24 10:36:00 - [17] I no sure if you knew or not, but Depleted Uraniumn rounds dont use fission or fusion to create a Nuclear explosion or release. Its just highly dense material for armor penetration...its an armor piercing round, all kinetic/impact based. Not an insult, just keeping you informed, if didnt know, now you know... _____________________________ You hit "insert pirate" with a frozen turd right in the eye from your 150mm railgun for 0.0 damage.
djenghis jan	Posted - 2006.01.24 11:03:00 - [18] Pushing a ship away is not possible in reality, it would simply break apart. Structures as large as battleships can't be made stiff enough to handle stress levels of that magnetude. Imagine a naval ship like a cruiser struck by a mine, it just breaks apart rather than lift in the air and fall down again intact. I sometimes wonder why the destructive power of ships in eve scales with ship size. I think that this is not as logical as it may seem. In any case, it just feels wrong.
theRaptor	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:04:00 - [19] Originally by: djenghis jan Pushing a ship away is not possible in reality, it would simply break apart. Structures as large as battleships can't be made stiff enough to handle stress levels of that magnetude. Imagine a naval ship like a cruiser struck by a mine, it just breaks apart rather than lift in the air and fall down again intact. I sometimes wonder why the destructive power of ships in eve scales with ship size. I think that this is not as logical as it may seem. In any case, it just feels wrong. Rubbish. A mine will either punch a hole in the hull, or if it is really big it will drive the ship our of the water and ***** its back (this is how modern torpedoes work btw). Oh and warp and jump drive are not possible (or as possible as donded super dense armour), nor are rail guns that instantly hit at 100km's. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
theRaptor	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Azzmet Shrapt Also, a possible explanation of the size of the explosions could be that nuclear explosions are just more intense. It is one thing to have just heat and energy being released, but it's quite another to have very upset neutrons hurtling toward you at 1/10 the speed of light, not to mention alpha particles and high fluctuations in charge due to the electrons and positrons being emmitted. And if you survived all that, let's hope you have fun with the Gamma radiation. 1) EM radiation is what causes of the heat blast from a nuclear explosion. But with no atmosphere to turn it into a blast wave, and ships armour that can repel weapons grade particle accelerators, it is not much of a threat. 2) What is your definition of "energy"? Infrared radiation and gamma rays are energy. 3) Heavy armour will shrug off near miss nuclear explosions in space, due to the fact that there is virtually no blast effect (no atmosphere to convert radiation into kinetic forece). Nuclear bombs where dropped extremely close to battleships during testing at Bikini Atoll and they only suffered minor exterior damage (antennas/port holes etc). In space with no atmosphere to cause blast effects the damage would be even less severe. 4) There is a lot of high energy radiation in space because there is no atmosphere to stop it, so space ships will need to be heavily shielded for prolonged operations. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.

djenghis jan	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:21:00 - [21] That's my point exactly, it would brake apart. On the subject of warp drive. I gues its supposed to be a worm hole or something like that. Funny here is that you can end up within 15 km of the intended target but not on top of it. This is strange because you can opt to end up exactly 15 km from the 15 km mark by selecting 30 km to gate. So its not a question of accuracy. I think it would be a good idea to incorporate a random function on your terminus. So that if you warp to a target you can overshoot or undershoot. Accuracy could be made a function of warp distance.
Zarch AlDain	Posted - 2006.01.25 13:20:00 - [22] You are worried about explosions pushing you around but not about ships in space having a maximum speed? Speaking as a physisist that's the bit that bugged me - in space you actually get very little in the way of a blast wave as there is nothing for the wave to travel through. That and they incredibly bad collision detection! Having said that being thrown around by explosions would be fun - no need for it to do any damage though.
Yurameki Daishun	Posted - 2006.01.25 22:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Kisaku The number one problem with this idea is for drone users. Drones get in real close to their targets, thus any explosion type function would total my drones. Plus anyone who actively uses drones knows that if you don't pay attention they're liable to go off and attack a structure, no matter how many enemys surround you. I'd really hate to forget to tell my drones to attack a target, and they start eating away at some humongus structure right next to me. XD well that just makes tactics more important, and means they need to setup drones so you can pick different attack profile types, like close, far, harass, missile defense, etc. etc.
Drizit	Posted - 2006.01.25 23:17:00 - [24] Drones seem to be subjected to damage. If I start throwing missiles at a NPC pirate while my drones are around it, they catch the blast as well and often come back with damage. If I refrain from using missiles, they don't come back with any damage. If it can be done for drones, surely ships can feel the effect as well. -- My idea of an OS is one that Operates the System, not a complete package of every piece of software ever written. Computers created "The Paperless Office". But some stupid fool invented a printer
Kittamaru	Posted - 2006.01.25 23:38:00 - [25] Valve did it on a smaller scale (HL2 Deathmatch for 64 players) that lags a bit, but not too badly (get a good host, no lag) but... to do that for 20k players... feels slightly queezy
Azzmet Shrapt	Posted - 2006.01.26 01:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Azzmet Shrapt on 26/01/2006 01:18:50 Originally by: theRaptor 1) EM radiation is what causes of the heat blast from a nuclear explosion. But with no atmosphere to turn it into a blast wave, and ships armour that can repel weapons grade particle accelerators, it is not much of a threat. 2) What is your definition of "energy"? Infrared radiation and gamma rays are energy. 3) Heavy armour will shrug off near miss nuclear explosions in space, due to the fact that there is virtually no blast effect (no atmosphere to convert radiation into kinetic forece). Nuclear bombs where dropped extremely close to battleships during testing at Bikini Atoll and they only suffered minor exterior damage (antennas/port holes etc). In space with no atmosphere to cause blast effects the damage would be even less severe. 4) There is a lot of high energy radiation in space because there is no atmosphere to stop it, so space ships will need to be heavily shielded for prolonged operations. Well, I'm not a nuclear chemist or anything, but I just enjoy these kinds of topics. Energy would be the rapid repulsion of particles due to the massive increase in volume from the explosion. I was just referring to the general defenition of energy as heat and light, not the textbook defenition of EM waves/particles. It is proven that a nuclear explostion will do more damage than a conventional explosion. Also, the alpha particles will do more damage than the particle accelerators because they are quadruple the size and will do much more damage to the surface of a ship. Also I believe the atmosphere would just be slowing down the particles by exerting pressure on them. Also in space, there is some constant radiation going on, but the radiation levels from a nuclear detonation will be extremely more condensed than any natural phenomena occuring in space. I think we'll only know once we can convince NASA to drop nukes out in space what the reaction will be. I'm just glad there's someone else out here who knows what they're talking about. It was just a theory anyway. EVE Applets - Every little feature you've ever wanted..


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