I've answered this but I can clarify. It had to do with timing, our impression of their overall track record and capability, their niche, and habit of sponsoring events...to name a few. This mixed into a feeling that we should contact them and do stuff with them around EVE Vegas and upcoming tournaments. One thing we are doing more of and looking to do more of is E-sports and online tournaments and if you look at any team sport today you see a lot of betting sites doing sponsorship as that makes sense in sports...so it's just a relationship that we wanted to explore and which we will continue exploring. Doesn't take away from anything other people are doing that is totally different and brings a different kind of value to our universe.

This is absolutely RMT. You can split hairs however you like but you can't deny that somer's model is to give up 200m isk to gain real cash.

The worst part is not that ccp sanctioned this action publicly- but they encouraged it and labelled it as the most deserving(helpful) community service project. Disgusting.

Read the Icelandic legal position on this for yourself: http://eng.innanrikisraduneyti.is/laws-and-regulations/english/lotteries/

I found this to be an interesting read too, http://www.frixo.com/sbook/regions/iceland.asp especially these quotes:

-According to Articles 183 and 184 of the Criminal Code, in effect since 1998, GÇ£it is a punishable offense to engage in gambling and betting on a professional basis, to encourage others to participate in these activities and to derive direct or indirect income from having the activities take place on oneGÇÖs premises."

-For all gambling activities, proper licenses must be obtained from the Ministry of Justice. Revenues must go toward helping not-for-profit charitable causes, such as philanthropic activities and sports clubs. Raffles without the permission of a police commissioner are absolutely forbidden.

(see also the original articles http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/text.jsp?file_id=190914 )

Do CCP have a gambling license? Nope. Are they likely to get one? Nope. You sure? Yip. The 'encouraging others' part is also very relevant here and makes me wonder who at CCP authorised a link to Somer.

Seriously though, Guard already sorted out and aligned the previous matter to a point where discussion and suggestions can be made to determine the rewards given to community services and fansites.
The prizes still need to be settled and the guidelines that will qualify the entities to receive them still have to be written and publicly disclosed, but that matter is partially out of the way.

However the matter regarding Somer Blink's use of isk tokens to reward those who buy a GCT through their referral system still needs to be addressed by Guard and/or other CCP representatives.
We are aware that if CCP wants to they can turn a blind eye on this matter and interpret and/or change the game's EULA and specifically the rules of conduct about selling game currency/items for real money in a way that it won't make Somer Blink's actions illegitimate.
This will however further confirm their favoritism and support of Somer Blink's actions within the sandbox and the game, so the question about whether other players will be able to engage in similar conducts still stands and requires their pronunciation on it so that an agreement can be aligned in the same way that it was for the community services and fansite rewards issue.

Why does CCP act like this is such a difficult situation to analyse, like its really hard to balance up the rights and wrongs of it.

IT IS EASY. All I presonally want is the following:

1) CCP to implement an 'Above the Fray' rule. This means they will never take sides with in game entities again. They will only intervene in the game where the EULA is being broken.

2) CCP item spawning (AKA game meddling) to be immediately limited to:

• Valid reimbursment cases
• AT (and similar CCP run tournament) prizes
• Seasonal gifts (must be gifted to all)

the above list is comprehensive

3) All of SOMERblink's iScorps to be taken back and destroyed immediately

4) All promotion and support for SOMERblink to cease (in keeping with the Above the Fray principle). I also would like a sober and simply worded announcement that SOMERblink is able to scam, might be scamming, and can scam in the future.

5) SOMERblink to be ordered to cease its RMT business. I want each SOMERblink account to receive a 1 week suspension and a fine applied to the founder in isk, equal to half of the total isk paid out under the RMT scheme (this is very lenient, and fair as CCP is partly to blame for not apprehending SOMER earlier, he probably thought what he was doing was ok).

TOO GREEDY?

EDIT: I OWN AN EVE LOTTO SITE https://eve-games.net
-RMT-

I agree this is a grey area and the language could be clearer, BUT looking at the EULA... the current system I, and other sites, employ DOES seem to be within the rules. It would be nice to have some clearer language though...

We implemented our "Credit for GTC Purchase" program for a couple of reasons.
1) We had to, to be competitive with other sites.
2) There is really no other "thing" that we can offer as incentives to our users to purchase time codes from us.

We will continue to offer the credits for GTC purchases. Unless it becomes specifically forbidden by a change in language in the EULA, or we are asked to stop by the owners of the game.

Aknowledging the use of isk tokens to reward the GTC referrals in Somer Blink, EVE-GAMES.NET and other websites, CCP has apparently allowed everyone to set up their own GTC resale referral system+isk token reward.
Official confirmation from CCP on this would be nice before we proceed so that we not risk getting accounts banned for misunderstandings.

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER.

The one thing that is entirely predictable is that no matter what, CSM will get sh*t on. (potential future candidates, take note!)

WRT to the politician analogy made a few posts back, keep in mind that CCP isn't a politician, CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.

CSM gets to tell the King, "Your Majesty, we believe what you are doing is bad for the Kingdom."

Sorry if CCP's legal department is so incompetent that it takes them months to work out a problem that should have been considered years ago. But that doesn't mean I have to continue paying them while they find their collective asses. That's not rage, BTW, it's simple personal finance. If I'm unhappy with a product, I'm not going to continue to buy it for a yet to be determined number of months in the hope that it will improve. I'll stop buying it, and only buy it if it improves.

So again, that's one less dissenting opinion for your eventual, redundant survey.

Everyone else just calmly gives me their opinions, concerns, and votes.

The one thing that is entirely predictable is that no matter what, CSM will get sh*t on. (potential future candidates, take note!)

If they fail, then we can make sure our voice is heard. Until then - be patient.

I can't set my sites policies based on your interpretation of the EULA. I set policy from CCP's interpretation of the EULA.

I have yet to see an argument that convinces me that what I and other sites are doing is RMT, and so far....neither has CCP

I don't agree that un-subbing is the answer to getting what you want though, if you are not subbed then why would they care what you have to say on the topic?

1. Unsubbing is a legitimate form of protest, and one that in the past has been effective in getting CCP's attention.

In response to this terrible assumption that isk for clicking a link and buying a GTC is RMT...

So after 47 pages of ranting and thinly veiled insults, your ok with it now?

Seems a bit hypocritical to be upset when others do something you perceive as wrong, but if you can profit from it.... suddenly it becomes acceptable.

I am holding a raffle for the following 5 tournament reward ships:
Cambion
Vangel
Malice
Freki
Utu

To enter, you simply buy a 30 day gtc from me for $1000 USD and you will receive a bonus "shai ticket."...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287597&find=unread

Read this and substitute 6 billion ISK free with that gtc that costs $105...

edit: using some fake currency and fake raffle to avoid rmt entanglements of course...


edit: and check out the 'Tournament Prize Ships Raffle' thread too for your chance to buy, eh, I mean raffle unique ships!

OK, first do me a favour and read this to understand where I'm coming from. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3752651#post3752651.

he didn't lotto the character. he lotto'ed a chance to bid on the character.

You're hiding behind details. Details which CCP are more than free to ignore when the inputs and outputs boils down to this:

• Buy Lottery Tickets
• Receive chance of getting a character

Add as many steps & details in between as you like, but it breaks down the same. Must buy lottery ticket to get character.

No I'm not missing the point. I understand that. You are missing what I have been pointing out all along. Character transfers / sales have different rules to ships etc.

Show me where Somer Blink has held a lottery for a character.

17. Lottery style sales are not permitted. Auctions and buyouts are the appropriate method for selling a character.

Not sure I can do any more than that.

You're missing the point. Just like MMMitch told you before, he didn't directly raffle the character, he raffled a chance to get a Buyout on it. So he didn't sell it using a Lottery, he still sold it using an Auction and Buyout in the Character Bazaar forum section, just like the normal procedure endorsed by CCP for character exchange. The object of the raffle being a character buyout, plexes, ships or isk doesn't matter according to Somer Blink, Eve-Games.net and other unsanctioned in-game item raffling conducts, as long as they're all tranferred by the CCP designated trading mechanisms.

You're going round in circles. No point continuing. It's summarised thusly:

I suggest CCP can say that holding lottery that you must enter in order to be able to buy a character is flouting the no "lottery style" rule when buying characters.

You say, He's doing exactly the same as Somer (which he isn't because *character*) or it doesn't matter because there are additional steps between lottery and character buying.

The End.

Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine. Please note that this is my personal opinion and not official ruling.

Quoting the EVE Online Terms of Service:
___

10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.

___

Also note the following explanation:

___

2. Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP.
___


This means, if you try to sell in-game items, for example a 30 day PLEX, for real money, you violate the TOS.

If you want to become an authorized ETC reseller, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected].


Please note that RMT attempts can swiftly lead to permanent forum and permanent in-game bans.

Greetings,

Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter.

apparently he has to be an authorized wholesale reseller

it's almost like they are making this **** up as they go along

Will need to give CCP the benefit of the doubt on the thread locks as both mine and Shai's were ongoing while DNS's was over and there was no need to lock it.

He did the same as me and Shai and used an official reseller to get the buyer his GTC.

We all used the somer defence of raffle and made up currency.

Where we differed was that he never seemed to ask for a massive $2500 for his GTC's and someone just offered it, while I set an actual price for the GTC of $105 instead of $35 that people could accept for a 'free' plex pack and Shai had $1000 for a gtc for a ship raffle.

This could be the other reason why the threads were locked or not?

SOMER is not a reseller. They work with an authorized reseller.

All resellers I have seen have the price at $34.99. But why require all resellers to use the same price if you are going to allow them to compete against one another in the first place (by offering isk)?

RIOT COUNT ME IN

Lotteries for character sales are not permitted under the Character Bazaar Rules.

As such, this thread is locked.

he didn't lotto the character. he lotto'ed a chance to bid on the character.

You're missing the point. Just like MMMitch told you before, he didn't directly raffle the character, he raffled a chance to get a Buyout on it. So he didn't sell it using a Lottery, he still sold it using an Auction and Buyout in the Character Bazaar forum section, just like the normal procedure endorsed by CCP for character exchange. The object of the raffle being a character buyout, plexes, ships or isk doesn't matter according to Somer Blink, Eve-Games.net and other unsanctioned in-game item raffling conducts, as long as they're all tranferred by the CCP designated trading mechanisms.

You're still missing the point. They aren't "hiding behind details". They are using the same procedure used by Somer Blink and others that has not only been unsanctioned, but also supported and advertised by CCP.

Moving your thread is not endorsement, it's making sure that it's in the correct forum for the topic.

Discussion is still ongoing internally regarding this kind of practice.

Reference to any endorsement of this by CCP Staff have been removed until an decision is made regarding it rather than misinformation.

Don't put words in my mouth in future.

People are buying 'Merchandise' with real money, with which to gamble. Not much different than buying poker chips to gamble, except that you will lose 100% of the time unless you convert your winnings into plex to pay for your account.

So in this case the bank wins 100% of the time.

Hey raven666wings,
I knew I wasn't exactly up against any sort of mental might, but I just thought I'd point out how I was right and you were so very wrong. Love how you moaned on about me not getting the point when the point I was making turned out to be superbly accurate and your point wholly inaccurate. I guess life must be tough for you. Oh and just one more thing...

Even with me being proven correct, you're still pretending that's not how it is. Delusional isn't a sufficient word here. I'll not bother to reply anymore as at best, you're being thoroughly dishonest and at worst, you need to seek professional help to get you back in touch with reality. I hope you get better soon.

Delusional isn't a sufficient word here. I'll not bother to reply anymore as at best, you're being thoroughly dishonest and at worst, you need to seek professional help to get you back in touch with reality. I hope you get better soon.

...but it's a scary time for CCP. Getting ready to launch a third game while the second starves to death and this one wanes? Yikes. Their hesitation is understandable.

I mean... f*** everything else, we're talking about the future of the company and the livelihoods of a fair number of people. Put yourself in their shoes.

So yah this has been bulls***, yah it's SOMER doing 'legit' RMT, and yah we want a response... but the decisions they make from here on out are big, far reaching, and risky no matter what. With a game this complex you just can't tell what will happen no matter what. I for one am not surprised we haven't heard anything yet. They'll probably say something before too long... but getting dramatic about this... not going to do much. The answers are bigger than the players commenting here. Str8up.

damn right that's what i was thinking when i typed that. i do like the blade films even if blade 3 was a giant ipod advert.

Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine.

You should be receiving Ishukone Watch Scorpions any day now for your service to the community.

I Said You Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' ...

Long story short, I'm a CCP/Somer shill posting desperate damage control attempts. Next I'm gonna hire a youtube girl to make a video on it. I realised how far I have messed the game up beyond repair as all the the players are unsubbing and cashing out their isk before they leave.

I am locking this as trading any in-game goods in exchange for ISK, even through ETC reselling or the like.