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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
110
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Posted - 2013.10.28 17:50:00 -
[451] - Quote
kogelbiefstuk wrote:Why is it that the sabre gets rockin resist increases on its tank over the rest ? its usually fit shield. but the flycatcher is a t2 ship with 0 resists to em on its shields? when are you gonna quit being so hatfull on the t2/t3 caldari em hole? come on! they are t2 they should have some resists on the tank they fit for.
It's an artifact of how the T2 resists work. Every T2 ship gets T2 resists that work against that ship's race's lore enemy. So, for Caldari, the T2 resists bump kinetic/thermal resists to hilarious levels, since Gallente shoot that type of damage.
In the case of Minmatar, its lore enemy, Amarr, shoots EM/Thermal, so it gets extra resists for those types. However, the default profile of shields has an EM hole, so their T2 resists just fit naturally in the hole, which is why T2 minmatar ships are so beastly. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
198
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Posted - 2013.10.28 17:50:00 -
[452] - Quote
Well I get the heretic changes. It's forcing the amarr ship to fit an armor tank, same with the Eris.
Sabre's still the baseline, flycatcher's your shieldboat.
Thank you for turning the Eris back into a hybrid weapons ship. It should have some more potential of being a mobile sniping boat, especially with the tracking bonuses (it now has some method of applying damage, even it's its minimal), and be able to get out of its own bubble to do it). Eris looks like it could be a decent small gang ship. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Doed
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
53
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Posted - 2013.10.28 17:53:00 -
[453] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Querns wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Magazine terminology corrected. :) You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry. In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more. One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated. It can't reload while cloaked. This is probably the part of the change that will have the most disruptive effect on current dictor tactics. However with the new resists and bonus pilots may choose to keep shooting while reloading and warping away and back is also always an option.
This is a good change, allows me to stay on the field to do some dps due to boosted survivability of my 12 dps flycatcher with 1 low! thankyou Fozzie! |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
664
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Posted - 2013.10.28 17:58:00 -
[454] - Quote
Nice v2 !
Count me in ! G££ <= Me |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
133
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:03:00 -
[455] - Quote
My flycatcher accepts these changes with joy. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1136
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:14:00 -
[456] - Quote
not exactly sure if this is a warp speed issue or if it belongs here
people have been talking about dictors instantly arriving on grid, therefore not giving ships already on grid a warning
is this a bug or a feature ? We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
160
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:17:00 -
[457] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch? With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway
With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially.
Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely.
For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out. |
Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:20:00 -
[458] - Quote
Querns wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Querns wrote:Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!
The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way. Go back to ratting you clueless noob, there's a reason every single dictor fits 2x interdiction sphere launchers. If you haven't figured out why that means you've never flown an Interdictor. In which case, why are you posting? Well, O Master of PvP, please explain to me how two single bubble launchers on a ship is better than one that can fire not twice, but three times under the same reload period. e: Feel free to check eve-kill for some examples of me flying a sabre. I tend to prefer daredevils, though. That link is only for a single month, though -- all-time lists appear to be broken and I cannot be arsed to find all the times I ever flew a sabre.
I'm not sure this veritable demi-goddess of PVP realizes that the reactivation timer was a minute with dictors trained to V. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
111
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:31:00 -
[459] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch? With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially. Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely. For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out. This is a well-reasoned explanation that even a simple person can follow. Thanks! This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
738
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:32:00 -
[460] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Roll back the changes. V1 was okay
Marian Devers wrote:And please stop listening to people that have never flown the ship.
Am I the only one who finds this post confusing?
Good job, Foz-man! These dictors look pretty good to me: a hell of an improvement over version 1 and something I would definitely send to TQ for a few months of observation before contemplating whether more changes are necessary.
The only comment I really have at this point is that I'm not sure how I feel about the warp speed: I think if it were me I'd peg dictors at 8au/s, AFs at 9, and both flavors of inty at 13.5. Still, its not like dictors are going to get outrun by many targets even at 6au/s. I'll be curious to see how this plays out on TQ with warp speed mechanics just being so different in general. I suspect 6 au/s will be adequate, but I'll keep an eye on it.
I'm really glad you guys cooked up a real proposal! This just looks so much better than V1... I'm really relieved! Finally the months of "can't fight anything with my Sabre" look to be coming to an end! |
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Major Killz
La Fraternite
264
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:34:00 -
[461] - Quote
Take 1 mid from Flycatcher and move to low slot. Thank you. - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
133
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Posted - 2013.10.28 19:52:00 -
[462] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Take 1 mid from Flycatcher and move to low slot. Thank you.
If the flycatcher is to have a second low, this would be my preferred change. Having said that, I have learned to live with the single low. It's just the way she is. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |
Gallastian Khanid
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
36
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:04:00 -
[463] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:OP now updated with version 2. We've incorporated the one bubble launcher per ship idea, added a new MWD sig penalty reduction and increased the resists (now EAF level T2 resists) and HP of all the dictors. We've also updated the Eris to the latest version of the Roden philosophy, giving it pure hybrid bonuses to Optimal, Tracking and Damage.
To compensate for the survivability changes we're dropping the warp speed a touch to 6.75au/s. We've also moderated the changes to the agility of the Heretic and Sabre.
As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round magazine, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship.
<3 |
Maximillian Dragonard
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
266
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:07:00 -
[464] - Quote
I actually like the saber changes. Allows for 5 guns, bubble, and expanded probe launcher (and maybe cloak), while still fitting a bit of a buffer tank. With the warp changes, this should be fun! Wut?! |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
53
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:12:00 -
[465] - Quote
I like the new changes, but can you give the flycatcher the 5% resist per level instead of the damage bonus so that is fills a shield fleet tackle role like how the Heretic now fulls a armor fleet tackle role? |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
25
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:18:00 -
[466] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Take 1 mid from Flycatcher and move to low slot. Thank you.
I was going to post this, but I see I've been beaten to it. One low slot is as awkward on the Flycatcher as it was on the Cormorant.
If the goal is to make the Flycatcher significantly tankier than the Sabre, you could also swap the application bonus for a resist bonus like happened to the Heretic. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
220
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:21:00 -
[467] - Quote
Version 2 is a much better iteration than version 1. Thank you for listening to community feedback! |
Khira Kitamatsu
723
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:26:00 -
[468] - Quote
Loving these new changes. You've almost hit the sweet spot. My concern is the Sig Radius is still a little big. Could you drop them down at least 5 more. We're just advanced dessies - not a hybrid between a cruiser and dessie. Second, though I am no fan of the Flycatcher - it needs the same treatment as the others. Give it another launcher slot. It should be 7+1. And drop one of the mid slots to a low slot. Of all the dictors the Flycatcher in this iteration is the worst. Just needs some love to bring it up to par with the others.
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Aegis Stormborn
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
88
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:41:00 -
[469] - Quote
Kane Fenris wrote:Aegis Stormborn wrote:As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs. the question is weather this is a bad thing or not i think it will separate good pilots from bad pilots and thats a good thing
Not really. I dig all the ship changes, Sabre is my go to ship. It's the bubble launcher changes, the 60 second reload and small charge quantity will mean that you are apt to miss some people during the reload. That particular change is more geared towards large fleet engagements so I guess take the bad with the good. I'll look forward to dog fighting in my new OP Sabre :) |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
131
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:45:00 -
[470] - Quote
Why do people keep asking for another launcher on the Flycatcher? With max skills it already has more effective weapons than any of the other interdictors (9 vs 8.75) and with an application bonus to boot. |
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Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
37
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:50:00 -
[471] - Quote
I love these changes. You had me at Sabre with t2 resists and 10% mwd sig reduction /lvl.
My only issue is the new mechanic for interdiction launchers. 5 second refire is a bit slow, makes dropping 2nd bubble rapidly as you burn to decloak a covert ops a strictly 2 dictor job. That reload time is a lifetime.. Especially with the new gate to gate warp speeds.
5 seconds and a covert ops cloaker is easily out of 1st bubble and in warp.
I'd rather have a 1 second delay and a 2 bubble mag with 30 second reload.
3 bubbles is nice for covering a regional gate/ station but that's about it. Larger mag size could be something maybe a future T2 interdiction launcher could do for a higher cost / fitting?
I completely agree with the following.
Maximus Andendare wrote: The 7th hardpoint on the heretic is weird and unnecessary, and I think they should just drop a highslot for a low on that one and the flycatcher if they want to improve fitting. They'd have to use full t2 resists on them all, but give the flycatcher and heretic an extra low from a high. That and the heretic and flycatcher getting respective resist bonuses would be perfect, turning them into the 'combat' interdictors and the eris and sabre the 'attack' variants.
-Eris and Sabre for speed agility and damage.
-Heretic and Flycatcher for a bit more durability and fitting options and less damage.
I could see myself having one of each of these depending on the situation!
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Marwen DeGaulle
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
12
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:56:00 -
[472] - Quote
How about an aggression timer for when someone tries to initiate warp inside the bubble? |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
310
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Posted - 2013.10.28 21:03:00 -
[473] - Quote
I'm liking these changes... nice.
Now if you would just stop trying to make the Eos fit onto a Myrmidon hull, that would be great. Glory |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
163
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Posted - 2013.10.28 21:22:00 -
[474] - Quote
Xorth Adimus wrote:Larger mag size could be something maybe a future T2 interdiction launcher could do for a higher cost / fitting?
T2 could also go in the 2-3 seconds activation and/or 30-45 seconds reload direction.
Just thinking about the fact that I'm here discussing actual options that a T2 bubble launcher could have blows my mind, considering how little impact any module changes would have on the current module+ship combination (apart from lower fittings of course). |
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2013.10.28 21:25:00 -
[475] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:ERIS - Eris is the next in the new new Roden designs. Switching away from the split weapons and giving Roden a focus on hybrid turret optimal and tracking, which lends itself especially well to railguns but also works well with blasters. However for most normal uses the big Eris changes are the huge amount of mass it lost (leading to much much improved speed and agility) and the extra fittings.
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range per level (was falloff) 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage) 10% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level (was bubble launcher delay reduction)
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 8H, 2M, 4L; 7(+1) turrets, 1(-3) launchers Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(-1) / 700 / 800(+49) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 40(+20) / 70(+20) / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 51.25(+16.25) / 67.5(+22.5) / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0(-5) / 0(-5) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 85(-1) This... may not be what I was expecting, entirely, but it's a welcome change from split weapons and I'm quite pleased to see it.
Please continue, oh mighty Fozz. |
Sushi Nardieu
0utbreak Outbreak.
164
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Posted - 2013.10.28 21:31:00 -
[476] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:xttz wrote:That's much better Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload? It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger magazines rather than faster reload, but both are possible.
How about decreased fire rate and possibly a lower magazine in favour of removing the sphere launcher fitting limit? This would allow the interdictor skill be meaningful in terms of bubbles because it could increase fire rate.
People can be creative with their dictors and trade-off certain aspects for a specific role. Then small-fleet sabres get some contrast in fit from the blob level dictors.
You're giving a lot of new bonuses for survivability. Allow people to multiply that survivability with heavier fits while trading off for lesser bubble ability. One launcher per dictor would inhibit this fitting meta somewhat no?
Just want to throw it out there for people to mull over.
On the other hand, the T2 launcher sounds interesting too. The Guns of Knowledge-á |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
58
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Posted - 2013.10.28 21:38:00 -
[477] - Quote
<3 the changes on Eris and Ares alike, everytime you fit a missile launcher to Gallente boat you kill a kitten |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2541
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Posted - 2013.10.28 22:00:00 -
[478] - Quote
The Roden changes make me very interested in what we can expect for the Lachesis.
That aside, this version of the dictor revamp is much more promising than the 1st draft. Bubble buffs and decent T2 resists go a long way towards fixing this class. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
BORG QUEEN Assimilator
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2013.10.28 22:22:00 -
[479] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.
But, if they are imune, only, to the buble they lunch, and keep not imune to the bubles from others?
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1442
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Posted - 2013.10.28 22:40:00 -
[480] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The Roden changes make me very interested in what we can expect for the Lachesis.
That aside, this version of the dictor revamp is much more promising than the 1st draft. Bubble buffs and decent T2 resists go a long way towards fixing this class.
I would presume the missile rate of fire bonus would be switched for an optimal range bonus.
I would drop a high slot for a low and increase to 4 turrets.
Then change the damage bonus with rate of fire.
Maybe add more base armor hp and give it full tech ii resists There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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