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San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Upon returning to the game, I've created this new character and now face the tedium of slowly skilling him up over multiple years of RL time just to fly all the ships I used to be able to.
Fine. But this is an Amarr combat pilot and the only skills I will be training on him will be Amarr combat skills. But sticking out of my character screen like two sore thumbs are the skills Industry and Mining.
Now my (in the future) awesome pvp pilot will have the filthy taint of mining and industry forever associated with him, and I had no control over this.
Please can we have the option to either start a character from scratch with all skills at zero, go back to having a small pool of starting SP to spend, or add the ability to remove all SP from a chosen skill at any time?
Thanks |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
218
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
This could be an interesting experiment. i don't know how much SP you have or time to waste but i think if you run at enough gate camps in your pod you will eventually get zero'd. freelance space bum |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
56926
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nope.
You must suffer for your poor choices made back in the deep dark past. We are all foolish when younger. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:This could be an interesting experiment. i don't know how much SP you have or time to waste but i think if you run at enough gate camps in your pod you will eventually get zero'd.
I can't see that working as the minimum clone you can have (alpha) protects up to 900k of SP. |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Nope.
You must suffer for your poor choices made back in the deep dark past. We are all foolish when younger.
What choices? When you create the character you have mining at 2 and industry 1 from the get go. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
695
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
No, the alpha grade clone keeps some skill points, 900ki believe. So you could never "zero" out. |
illirdor
Justified Chaos
58
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Nope.
You must suffer for your poor choices made back in the deep dark past. We are all foolish when younger.
Well good thing you didnt train reading up...
Soooo this is my sig....-á |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
322
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or skill books. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or skill books.
Signed
I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
3073
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Over the years CCP has been all over the place with starting SP/skills. Anywhere from three to over a half dozens skills to start and anywhere from 800k+ to less than 100kSP.
Yet, as far as I can recall, there has never been an option to simply start from no skills and no SP. I have to ask myself why that is in a game of specialized alts and a booming character trade.
Makes no sense.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
723
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote: Now my (in the future) awesome pvp pilot will have the filthy taint
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
56929
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Nope.
You must suffer for your poor choices made back in the deep dark past. We are all foolish when younger. What choices? When you create the character you have mining at 2 and industry 1 from the get go.
It was a f**king joke. NVM then. "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
56929
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or skill books. Signed I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this.
I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup). "Who thinks it's normal to kneel down to a naked man who's nailed to a cross? It's like a bad leather bar." -- John Waters |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:San La Muerte wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or skill books. Signed I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this. I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup).
Can you? Name three.
No, I am serious. I want the option to train the skills I choose to. Out of the two of us, you're the one who doesn't seem to be adding anything to the conversation.
|
Kate stark
624
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
sell your character, and buy a new one. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
323
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:San La Muerte wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or skill books. Signed I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this. I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup).
I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote: Upon returning to the game, I've created this new character and now face the tedium of slowly skilling him up over multiple years of RL time just to fly all the ships I used to be able to.
Fine. But this is an Amarr combat pilot and the only skills I will be training on him will be Amarr combat skills. But sticking out of my character screen like two sore thumbs are the skills Industry and Mining.
Now my (in the future) awesome pvp pilot will have the filthy taint of mining and industry forever associated with him, and I had no control over this.
Please can we have the option to either start a character from scratch with all skills at zero, go back to having a small pool of starting SP to spend, or add the ability to remove all SP from a chosen skill at any time?
Thanks
My, but don't we live in a privileged age? |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:My, but don't we live in a privileged age?
Is that your generic response to any request to improve the game/gameplay experience.
|
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'd say send and Eve mail to your friendly CSM representative and explain this outrage to them.
That should get them fired up.
|
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
185
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote: Upon returning to the game, I've created this new character and now face the tedium of slowly skilling him up over multiple years of RL time just to fly all the ships I used to be able to.
Fine. But this is an Amarr combat pilot and the only skills I will be training on him will be Amarr combat skills. But sticking out of my character screen like two sore thumbs are the skills Industry and Mining.
Now my (in the future) awesome pvp pilot will have the filthy taint of mining and industry forever associated with him, and I had no control over this.
Please can we have the option to either start a character from scratch with all skills at zero, go back to having a small pool of starting SP to spend, or add the ability to remove all SP from a chosen skill at any time?
Thanks
Those dirty industrial hauling ships and their dirty ew fitting mid slots.
|
|
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
218
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:This could be an interesting experiment. i don't know how much SP you have or time to waste but i think if you run at enough gate camps in your pod you will eventually get zero'd. I can't see that working as the minimum clone you can have (alpha) protects up to 900k of SP.
dang it you are right. freelance space bum |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
117
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote: Upon returning to the game, I've created this new character and now face the tedium of slowly skilling him up over multiple years of RL time just to fly all the ships I used to be able to.
Fine. But this is an Amarr combat pilot and the only skills I will be training on him will be Amarr combat skills. But sticking out of my character screen like two sore thumbs are the skills Industry and Mining.
Now my (in the future) awesome pvp pilot will have the filthy taint of mining and industry forever associated with him, and I had no control over this.
Please can we have the option to either start a character from scratch with all skills at zero, go back to having a small pool of starting SP to spend, or add the ability to remove all SP from a chosen skill at any time?
Thanks
OCD untreated....bad, Meds for OCD....good. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
723
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
What if they just made Mining 2 a requirement for some random PVP thing? If that works for you, what if you just pretended such a requirement exists? Alternately, talk to your doctor about drugs.
|
jackncoke
Aliastra Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
I can see your point ...
Those 30-45 min of RL time to trian those skills have really hurt you.
We should ponder deeper on this in garden of Zen.
I shall meditate and to see if you are a troll or simply amazingly simple Jack person. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation The Cursed Few
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted Skills
You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or skill books.
If people want to spend money to actually set them back in a game then... sure! Why not. Just don't let EA hear about this...
Personally I think it's a ******** thing to want to do. It's not hurting you or anything. Not unless you have a severe case of OCD which gives you a seizure each time you see those skills. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoavH8xbrPE |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
334
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have long been an advocate of SP remaps, and PLEXing to regain "lost" SP from temporary de-sub periods. But I also realize that this is about as good an idea as hull tanking (ie: NOT a good idea, at all). "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2164
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:But this is an Amarr combat pilot and the only skills I will be training on him will be Amarr combat skills. But sticking out of my character screen like two sore thumbs are the skills Industry and Mining. My alt has Gunnery and no missile skills at all. It bugs my OCD too, as he's a drone-only user. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17004
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:[I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup). I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this. Most of them revolve around massively slimming down a deep-specialist character to the point where you hardly even have to pay clone costs for it.
Since you only ever need the outer layer of prerequisites, it's not hard to imagine a max-skilled capship pilot tootling around in a 8M SP clone, making it completely throw-away when having those level skills (and that skill depth) is actually supposed to come with a sizeable cost.
Granted, that particular problem could be patched by just having the rule that you can't delete a skill if you have any other skills on your sheet that use that particular skill as a prerequisite. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
jackncoke wrote:I can see your point ...
Those 30-45 min of RL time to trian those skills have really hurt you.
We should ponder deeper on this in garden of Zen.
I shall meditate and to see if you are a troll or simply amazingly simple Jack person.
None too bright are you? |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
334
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:[I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup). I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this. Most of them revolve around massively slimming down a deep-specialist character to the point where you hardly even have to pay clone costs for it. Since you only ever need the outer layer of prerequisites, it's not hard to imagine a max-skilled capship pilot tootling around in a 8M SP clone, making it completely throw-away when having those level skills (and that skill depth) is actually supposed to come with a sizeable cost.
Min/Maxing is the devil.... "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
|
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:[I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup). I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this. Most of them revolve around massively slimming down a deep-specialist character to the point where you hardly even have to pay clone costs for it. Since you only ever need the outer layer of prerequisites, it's not hard to imagine a max-skilled capship pilot tootling around in a 8M SP clone, making it completely throw-away when having those level skills (and that skill depth) is actually supposed to come with a sizeable cost.
Sure, so you just make it that you cannot ever delete the points in a skill that is a pre-requisite for another.
We already have skill loss in the game in the form of being podded without an updated clone or losing a T3. Where's the problem in what I am suggesting? Personally, I'd prefer it if we all started with zero - it would make more sense too. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17005
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:We already have skill loss in the game in the form of being podded without an updated clone or losing a T3. Where's the problem in what I am suggesting? Where I described it, which differs substantially from being podded in that you can pick and choose what you lose, including picking skills that can never be lost through the SP loss mechanic.
You're altering the long-term economy of SP accumulation for purely aesthetic reasons. That's not really a compelling or sensible way to balance things. Restricting it means you're introducing a fairly complex system for a ridiculously limited and minute use case, making it a questionable investment of dev time and effort. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
323
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:[I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup). I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this. Most of them revolve around massively slimming down a deep-specialist character to the point where you hardly even have to pay clone costs for it. Since you only ever need the outer layer of prerequisites, it's not hard to imagine a max-skilled capship pilot tootling around in a 8M SP clone, making it completely throw-away when having those level skills (and that skill depth) is actually supposed to come with a sizeable cost. Granted, that particular problem could be patched by just having the rule that you can't delete a skill if you have any other skills on your sheet that use that particular skill as a prerequisite.
First, About clone costs. CCP reduced them by 30% & have stated that they want to remove them from the game. Also you are paying a PLEX to do this which at the moment is 600 mil, that is a lot of clone upgrades.
Second, CCP already has a check in the skill system, you cannot install a skill without the prerequisite. So they just reverse that check system. You will not be able to delete a skill that is required for another skill you have plugged in. Easy coding.
Third, this is a vanity addition, just like PLEX for Re-Sculpt. Yes, I am OCD about my skill sheet.
But even that said, what I do not like about this game is that to try something out you have to inject skills like I did for PI (5 of them). I decided I did not want to do PI any more or EVER again on this character. I want those skills removed. It should be my choice. I do not deserve the skill points back or reimbursed for the skill books. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:San La Muerte wrote:We already have skill loss in the game in the form of being podded without an updated clone or losing a T3. Where's the problem in what I am suggesting? Where I described it, which differs substantially from being podded in that you can pick and choose what you lose, including picking skills that can never be lost through the SP loss mechanic. You're altering the long-term economy of SP accumulation for purely aesthetic reasons. That's not really a compelling or sensible way to balance things. Restricting it means you're introducing a fairly complex system for a ridiculously limited and minute use case, making it a questionable investment of dev time and effort.
I really don't think much dev time would need to be spent on it. I do agree that, as players are never allowed to undo past decisions in any aspect of the game (name, corp history, skills, etc) that choosing to delete skills may be incongruous and start a bad trend.
I still think we should start with 0 SP though and choose our paths entirely. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2682
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tippia wrote:San La Muerte wrote:We already have skill loss in the game in the form of being podded without an updated clone or losing a T3. Where's the problem in what I am suggesting? Where I described it, which differs substantially from being podded in that you can pick and choose what you lose, including picking skills that can never be lost through the SP loss mechanic. You're altering the long-term economy of SP accumulation for purely aesthetic reasons. That's not really a compelling or sensible way to balance things. Restricting it means you're introducing a fairly complex system for a ridiculously limited and minute use case, making it a questionable investment of dev time and effort.
Pretty much all of this. What you want doesn't actually do anything functional to benefit the game. Just your OCD. The devs are better off spending time figuring out how to log off to character select and rigging the launcher to Multi account support. The Drake is a Lie |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
323
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:making it a questionable investment of dev time and effort.
I bet you a PLEX it would get more use than the PLEX for Re-Scuplt that CCP dev wasted time on.
And when has CCP never had questionable investment of dev time on something. This made me laugh, thanks R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2682
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:
I still think we should start with 0 SP though and choose our paths entirely.
They already figured out that this was a bad idea because newbs knew fuckall about what they picked. Also in what universe do you start with industry? Every damn time anyone runs the industry career agent they have to buy the damn skill in order to build the civilian afterburners.
D: The Drake is a Lie |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6255
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think its bull **** that I have to train Mining Frigate 1 just to go PvP in a Venture. This is an outrage, and frankly I will unsub all the things unless (stuff) because (reasons) and (words).
Also, Why do I get a civy blaster and a civy mining laser on my Noobship? Why cant I get 2 civy blasters?!?!? This is also a foot stompy outrage and I plan on AFK shooting a statue with a noobship until I get my way. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
3075
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 19:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:[I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup). I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this. Most of them revolve around massively slimming down a deep-specialist character to the point where you hardly even have to pay clone costs for it. Since you only ever need the outer layer of prerequisites, it's not hard to imagine a max-skilled capship pilot tootling around in a 8M SP clone, making it completely throw-away when having those level skills (and that skill depth) is actually supposed to come with a sizeable cost.Granted, that particular problem could be patched by just having the rule that you can't delete a skill if you have any other skills on your sheet that use that particular skill as a prerequisite.
Answer to the underlined above.
You don't think the two year investment is a big enough cost? And you don't think the PLEX investment won't more than balance out any clone cost savings?
I roll my eyes in your general direction, woman.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:I think its bull **** that I have to train Mining Frigate 1 just to go PvP in a Venture. This is an outrage, and frankly I will unsub all the things unless (stuff) because (reasons) and (words).
Also, Why do I get a civy blaster and a civy mining laser on my Noobship? Why cant I get 2 civy blasters?!?!? This is also a foot stompy outrage and I plan on AFK shooting a statue with a noobship until I get my way.
I realise that you've probably just learnt about sarcasm and believe it's the most incredible thing in the world but it doesn't change the fact that nobody is outraged or threatening to unsub, merely making an observation and suggestion. Sorry if this interferes with your agenda of getting even with whoever upset you. |
|
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:San La Muerte wrote:
I still think we should start with 0 SP though and choose our paths entirely.
They already figured out that this was a bad idea because newbs knew fuckall about what they picked. Also in what universe do you start with industry? Every damn time anyone runs the industry career agent they have to buy the damn skill in order to build the civilian afterburners. D:
Understood - but do you really think having Mining and Industry trained to lvl 1 solves this? New players are always going to be bamboozled and it's the tutorials job to clarify things for them. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
725
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
Look, just ~roleplay~ it. You have Mining 2 because you were in prison. For being a badass. |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Look, just ~roleplay~ it. You have Mining 2 because you were in prison. For being a badass.
Ok but nothing happened in prison did it? Nothing, you know, bad? |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
404
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
I would say 20 PLEX would be an appropriated price. Because this disorder is rare and one PLEX per affected will never cover the implementation of this useless feature. |
Aurilen Baxtab
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Go get yourself podded without a clone. Then you'll not have any more stinky smelly mining skills. Icky! |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2686
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:Johnny Marzetti wrote:Look, just ~roleplay~ it. You have Mining 2 because you were in prison. For being a badass. Ok but nothing happened in prison did it? Nothing, you know, bad?
Only badass.
And yes while it's the tutorial's job to teach the newbies about these things it's also the reason that the current skill system is where it's at now.
When I started we picked a career and started out with something like 800k SP right out of the chute. But now you start with bare minimum skills so that the tutorial can step you through on what they mean and which ones you might want more than others.
That said, they NEED basic industry if you wanna to give them a fluid experience of trying the industry agent without them having to sit and wait 10 minutes before continuing anything in the tutorial. That sudden halt and being forced to wait will leave a bad taste in the mouths of the newbs.
We either need to give them industry or give them a civilian BPC that doesn't need industry to be built.
Likewise everything that's given to the players should be civilian, webs, ABs, reppers, hardeners, etc so that they never have any modules they can't already use.
And THAT, my friend, is where I think dev time is worth being spent regardless of your issue. I would accept them removing things like the racial weapon system and the mining and industry skills from a fresh character assuming that they have enough civvy stuff given to them that they can keep moving without stopping. Maybe even remove the racial ship skill and let them fly to another system to start off as another faction. The Drake is a Lie |
Anomaly One
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
It's like free money from idiots why shouldn't CCP implement this everyone will be happy since you're now less competitive with everything you detrain? (like that guy who said he has lvl 5 in all PI and wants to remove LOL) makes other PIs happy makes you regret later on and cry on the forums to get it back (more tears) and makes CCP money
Imagine if someone has lvl 5 in all missiles and plexes to get rid of it since missiles are useless in this fictional situation, now a couple months later and missiles get buffed and are favored over turrets, then the crying ensues saying it's not fair and whatnot, it's a win win for everyone! |
San La Muerte
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.10.15 20:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:San La Muerte wrote:Johnny Marzetti wrote:Look, just ~roleplay~ it. You have Mining 2 because you were in prison. For being a badass. Ok but nothing happened in prison did it? Nothing, you know, bad? Only badass. And yes while it's the tutorial's job to teach the newbies about these things it's also the reason that the current skill system is where it's at now. When I started we picked a career and started out with something like 800k SP right out of the chute. But now you start with bare minimum skills so that the tutorial can step you through on what they mean and which ones you might want more than others. That said, they NEED basic industry if you wanna to give them a fluid experience of trying the industry agent without them having to sit and wait 10 minutes before continuing anything in the tutorial. That sudden halt and being forced to wait will leave a bad taste in the mouths of the newbs. We either need to give them industry or give them a civilian BPC that doesn't need industry to be built. Likewise everything that's given to the players should be civilian, webs, ABs, reppers, hardeners, etc so that they never have any modules they can't already use. And THAT, my friend, is where I think dev time is worth being spent regardless of your issue. I would accept them removing things like the racial weapon system and the mining and industry skills from a fresh character assuming that they have enough civvy stuff given to them that they can keep moving without stopping. Maybe even remove the racial ship skill and let them fly to another system to start off as another faction.
That's a good point actually yes. The necessity of having a skill to actually complete the tutorial.
Yes, I remember the days. It was 680k SP iirc. And we all remember learning skills. Hell, when I started the races actually meant something, you'd get a completely different set of attributes depending on who you rolled. Just goes to show that they can make such changes though if they really want to.
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Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
What's this mental condition called again ? I know it is one, but i can't put my finger on it and don't know how to search for it... |
Anomaly One
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:What's this mental condition called again ? I know it is one, but i can't put my finger on it and don't know how to search for it...
Stupidity |
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Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:Solstice Project's Alt wrote:What's this mental condition called again ? I know it is one, but i can't put my finger on it and don't know how to search for it... Stupidity No, seriously, it *is* considered a mental condition ...
Maybe somebody knows. |
Frank Millar
252
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:Anomaly One wrote:Solstice Project's Alt wrote:What's this mental condition called again ? I know it is one, but i can't put my finger on it and don't know how to search for it... Stupidity No, seriously, it *is* considered a mental condition ... Maybe somebody knows. OCD? Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. If that's what you mean. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
726
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 21:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
It's practically impossible to post in these forums without getting a diagnosis from some internet psychologist. And I say this having both given and gotten a few myself. |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
239
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:It's practically impossible to post in these forums without getting a diagnosis from some internet psychologist. And I say this having both given and gotten a few myself.
I'm sorry, sir, but it appears that you have come down with Goon Syndrome. There is currently no known cure. Symptoms include forum trolling, an urge to fly in a fleet with a thousand Rifters, and an unhealthy love of mittens. Current treatment includes cat GIFs, taking over New Eden, and being around others with Goon Syndrome.
That will be 200 ISK. |
Ryhss
Dry Atomic Fusion Gatekeepers Universe
120
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
I liked the old system where you chose your starting skills. I have been known to spam trade windows with spammers of Jita. It is quite satisfying when they convo you screaming about reporting me for it. It normally provokes me to open another trade window with them. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
463
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
I have also removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 15:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
San La Muerte wrote:Smohq Anmirorz wrote:My, but don't we live in a privileged age? Is that your generic response to any request to improve the game/gameplay experience.
No, I don't do 'generic response'. I was just responding to what sounded like a sense of entitlement. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
324
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 17:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:Tippia wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:[I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup). I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this. Most of them revolve around massively slimming down a deep-specialist character to the point where you hardly even have to pay clone costs for it. Since you only ever need the outer layer of prerequisites, it's not hard to imagine a max-skilled capship pilot tootling around in a 8M SP clone, making it completely throw-away when having those level skills (and that skill depth) is actually supposed to come with a sizeable cost. Granted, that particular problem could be patched by just having the rule that you can't delete a skill if you have any other skills on your sheet that use that particular skill as a prerequisite. First, About clone costs. CCP reduced them by 30% & have stated that they want to remove them from the game. Also you are paying a PLEX to do this which at the moment is 600 mil, that is a lot of clone upgrades. Second, CCP already has a check in the skill system, you cannot install a skill without the prerequisite. So they just reverse that check system. You will not be able to delete a skill that is required for another skill you have plugged in. Easy coding. Third, this is a vanity addition, just like PLEX for Re-Sculpt. Yes, I am OCD about my skill sheet. But even that said, what I do not like about this game is that to try something out you have to inject skills like I did for PI (5 of them). I decided I did not want to do PI any more or EVER again on this character. I want those skills removed. It should be my choice. I do not deserve the skill points back or reimbursed for the skill books.
I somewhat agree with this. The "they want to remove them..." means little if it's still there.
The vanity reworking part is valid. It would be a cost to returns ratio on this.
A rough guestimate would be 350-500 of these would need to be sold to recoup dev costs. It shouldn't take more than a couple weeks for them to figure it out and hook it together and such.
CCP has invested a hell of a lot more effort into things that never saw more than a peak at a potential future while this one would sell to at least some people. They probably already have chunks of code for a lot of this (I do recall them talking about PLEX for remaps and such so the hooks are probably already in place for something along these lines.)
Personally I have no problems with someone paying to vanity strip skills. Just as long as Tipia's "remove prerequisites" isn't hit. Why the hell not let someone toss money at CCP? |
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