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Jaseac
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.10.16 19:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
A way to keep more people in the game, my idea here is mostly for miners, is to have a way to hire npc security for a set amount and time while in station. They would stay with you while your mining. Alot of people may say that's what drones are for, but if you can hire the npc's that gives you a few extra drones to have mining instead of guarding. It could also be expanded to be hiring an player to be your security while you mine. I am sure there will be many viewpoints on this such as if you hire a player as your security and they betray you kill your ship and take your gear. Would all be part of the risk with hiring a player. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6284
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Posted - 2013.10.16 20:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jaseac wrote:A way to keep more people in the game, my idea here is mostly for miners, is to have a way to hire npc security for a set amount and time while in station......
Stopped reading right there.
Because the docked in station experience is far too dangerous.
Also, No. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Alundil
The Unnamed. The NME Alliance
329
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Posted - 2013.10.16 20:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Jaseac wrote:A way to keep more people in the game, my idea here is mostly for miners, is to have a way to hire npc security for a set amount and time while in station...... Stopped reading right there. Because the docked in station experience is far too dangerous. Also, No.
You probably should've kept reading as it's not a terrible idea. Also, being passive/aggressive on the forums while taking someone's point out of context (and getting it wrong to boot due to failure to read) is pretty bad.
I'd say to OP that hiring NPCs would be a non-starter as they, likely, wouldn't protect you well enough to matter unless they were "concord" like setup (instalock/jamscram/etc) at which point they are overpowered and unbalanced.
I think the idea of opening it up to actual player to player contracts through some in station interface (I believe that this is where you were aiming in the first place) would be an interesting dynamic allowing for beneficial or surprising outcomes for both the hiring player and/or the pirates (the merc could double-cross or renege on the contract and kill/loot the miner incurring a loss of collateral or something or the mercs could lie in wait, hidden, for the possible appearance of the pirates and would see them as allowable targets if they aggressed the miner).
In either scenario - it wouldn't prove to be an overwhelming or insurmountable advantage to either side baring pilot stupidity. It also furthers the in-game player economy, fosters player to player interactions and through those creates a higher likelihood of something exploding, thus completing the circle.
Not a bad initial idea. Just needs work. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
776
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Posted - 2013.10.16 20:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
OP wants to hire security in part so he can use his drone bay for mining drones.
What is with the miners? Use the weakest ship because it has the best yield. No tank/weak tank because it reduces yield. Now they don't even want to carry combat drones because they reduce yield.
Please keep mining that Veldspar in your no-EHP, no-tank exhumers and barges. I'll keep making Catalysts out of it and selling them to miner-gankers who will keep exploiting your money-first mindset in order to kill your ships.
Maybe one day you'll start to understand something other than maximum yield.
...Actually, you probably won't.
Miners remain at the bottom of the food chain because they keep themselves there. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3445
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Posted - 2013.10.16 21:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
"No" simply on principle.
If you want help, get players to help you. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
546
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Posted - 2013.10.16 21:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:OP wants to hire security in part so he can use his drone bay for mining drones. Yeah, and field them only to pay those additional ISK to NPCs.
Find some newb, hire him to shoot rats. Or something. EVE changes, but I can't imagine it going in the direction of "less people/alts, more NPCs".... Hopefully. |
Alundil
The Unnamed. The NME Alliance
329
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Posted - 2013.10.16 21:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:OP wants to hire security in part so he can use his drone bay for mining drones.
What is with the miners? Use the weakest ship because it has the best yield. No tank/weak tank because it reduces yield. Now they don't even want to carry combat drones because they reduce yield.
Please keep mining that Veldspar in your no-EHP, no-tank exhumers and barges. I'll keep making Catalysts out of it and selling them to miner-gankers who will keep exploiting your money-first mindset in order to kill your ships.
Maybe one day you'll start to understand something other than maximum yield.
...Actually, you probably won't.
Miners remain at the bottom of the food chain because they keep themselves there. I don't even mine but the hostility towards an idea that might increase the amount of combat related explosions (regardless of who is exploding) is a bit suspect coming from what I assume is a 'PvP' guy.
Instead of choosing, as you have, to view this in a completely negative manner that places the miner as the object of scorn and derision (whether that's where you see them or not is irrelevant to point) look at it for the potential to benefit you, the assumed ganker. More targets is better correct? This idea sounds like it might increase the potential number targets. Either through an increased (though false) sense of security it provides to said miners and their "security details" or through a larger number of targets and tactical situations (miners + aforementioned security detail). Seems like a win for you the ganker (or supplier of gankers) either way. Quitcherbitchin. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
322
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Posted - 2013.10.16 21:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jaseac wrote:A way to keep more people in the game, my idea here is mostly for miners, is to have a way to hire npc security for a set amount and time while in station. They would stay with you while your mining. Alot of people may say that's what drones are for, but if you can hire the npc's that gives you a few extra drones to have mining instead of guarding. It could also be expanded to be hiring an player to be your security while you mine. I am sure there will be many viewpoints on this such as if you hire a player as your security and they betray you kill your ship and take your gear. Would all be part of the risk with hiring a player.
I have a different proposal. You could make it so that you can form some sort of gang with other people, where agression between ships would be illegal. These other ships would need new modules introduced, I imagine something like a "Remote Shield/Armor Supplier" that gives the target ship some amount of shield/armor HP. So when you get attacked, these space-priests could heal your shield and you do not explode. Another, more crazy solution, is to have maybe some people with some sort of target jamming module with you to jam out the attackers. But, of course, these options are bad for Eve - A single player mining simulator IN SPACE - they would be better suited for a MMO. I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42 |
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
105
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Posted - 2013.10.16 21:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jaseac wrote:A way to keep more people in the game, my idea here is mostly for miners, is to have a way to hire npc security for a set amount and time while in station. They would stay with you while your mining. Alot of people may say that's what drones are for, but if you can hire the npc's that gives you a few extra drones to have mining instead of guarding. It could also be expanded to be hiring an player to be your security while you mine. I am sure there will be many viewpoints on this such as if you hire a player as your security and they betray you kill your ship and take your gear. Would all be part of the risk with hiring a player.
I agree with Fluffers here, hire players, but as a side note, if you mine in a proc or a skiff, and your skills with shields get good enough, you can bascially just ignore the rats as they shoot you, and whats funnier, is that if any pirate/ganker attacks you and uses a scram on you, the rats will instantly jump the ganker, also, if you are in a proc/skiff, and are tanked, chanse is youll be left alone, your pretty much to fast to be bumped, and it cost them more to try gank you in high then it cost you, my usual skiff setup is one T2 warrior/goblin, 5ecm drones, one salvage drone, and three T2 mining drones, that one T2 drone have no problem killing the rats in high, if i choose to, mostly i just ignore the rats |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
40
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Posted - 2013.10.17 03:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:"No" simply on principle.
If you want help, get players to help you.
Q: how much do you think I would have to pay someone to actually be at the ready and watch me mine for 3 hours?
Trick question, no one will do this. Literally no one. Nice try though.
Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1820
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Posted - 2013.10.17 04:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:"No" simply on principle.
If you want help, get players to help you. Q: how much do you think I would have to pay someone to actually be at the ready and watch me mine for 3 hours? Trick question, no one will do this. Literally no one. Nice try though. You should find a less dangerous occupation than mining. Low sec piracy might be right up your alley, since there's little need to pay for someone to defend you. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Gigan Amilupar
Legion of Darkwind
31
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Posted - 2013.10.17 05:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:"No" simply on principle.
If you want help, get players to help you. Q: how much do you think I would have to pay someone to actually be at the ready and watch me mine for 3 hours? Trick question, no one will do this. Literally no one. Nice try though.
There are tons of corps that do mining ops, join one and you don't have to fly alone.
As for this idea, no. We should never substitute player interaction for player-npc interaction in this game. Fly with friends or if your doing something solo be careful how you do it. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
869
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Posted - 2013.10.17 08:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gigan Amilupar wrote:Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:"No" simply on principle.
If you want help, get players to help you. Q: how much do you think I would have to pay someone to actually be at the ready and watch me mine for 3 hours? Trick question, no one will do this. Literally no one. Nice try though. There are tons of corps that do mining ops, join one and you don't have to fly alone. As for this idea, no. We should never substitute player interaction for player-npc interaction in this game. Fly with friends or if your doing something solo be careful how you do it.
Exactly this.
When I first started playing I joined an industrial corp. We performed weekly mining ops and as mining goes, they were good fun. Massively more fun that you are going to have mining solo with a few NPCs watching you.
Oh and MMO!
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Vesan Terakol
Sad Face Enterprises
19
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Posted - 2013.10.17 09:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
The part from this proposal that i really like is the idea to introduce a station interface for hiring mercenaries, as communication in EVE outside of corp/intel channels is rather limited. I'm pretty sure that "hire people for that" channels exist (used to be in an alliance, where they had a salvage specific corporation) but those are rarely promoted or people will just ignore them as "spam in local" or something. An interface for hiring people for any activity, be it security, salvaging, mining would definitely help in alleviating the "lone wolf in a sandbox" syndrome. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1715
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:"No" simply on principle.
If you want help, get players to help you. Q: how much do you think I would have to pay someone to actually be at the ready and watch me mine for 3 hours? Trick question, no one will do this. Literally no one. Nice try though.
funny, I would do it for my corpies*.
Just so long as they keep me stocked with ships, ammo, and modules.
*yeah, I know I'm in a 1-man corp ... looking for a new home and NPC corp is rubbish. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6321
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alundil wrote:... passive/aggressive ....
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Vrenth
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
76
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Posted - 2013.10.17 16:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jaseac wrote:A way to keep more people in the game, my idea here is mostly for miners, is to have a way to hire npc security for a set amount and time while in station. They would stay with you while your mining. Alot of people may say that's what drones are for, but if you can hire the npc's that gives you a few extra drones to have mining instead of guarding. It could also be expanded to be hiring an player to be your security while you mine. I am sure there will be many viewpoints on this such as if you hire a player as your security and they betray you kill your ship and take your gear. Would all be part of the risk with hiring a player.
Or... hire PC security ships.... |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
242
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
why would ccp put in single player features in an MMO?
why is a player in an mmo going you know I need npc's when there are several corps, mining no less out there?
why are these subs ccp would bend over to keep? The4se are players who single player games or even WOW would be more their speed. And even WOW has the MMO aspect in the deepest heart of the carebeariesr server.....you need other people to raid. |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
201
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
I will give a more detailed reason other than the simplistic nos that people are giving. CCP Seagull has stated that eve has a new vision in mind for the second decade, this vision involves putting more control into the players hands. There are purposes for NPCs that players should never fill; however, in this instance, I believe its more beneficial to leave NPCs out of the equation and just rely on hiring players to defend you. |
rothmal
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
17
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Step 1. hire 10,000+ npc ships Step 2. attack all alliances Step 3. become null sec King |
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Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
11
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Posted - 2013.10.18 00:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Only if i can hire Incursion rats or CONCORD. |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
42
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Posted - 2013.10.18 00:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Protecting people needs to be made a viable option for players or it needs to be done by NPC's, for the former to happen mechanics would need to be changed.
Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy Zero Hour Alliance
177
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Posted - 2013.10.18 01:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Why not create protection contracts with agreed payouts if ships get lost.
Hell just do player run insurance market while your at it for anyone by using logs to determine risk.
Could finally make the corporation shares worth while, need to start thinking about pension fund for my immortal body... o.0 |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3456
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Posted - 2013.10.18 01:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:"No" simply on principle.
If you want help, get players to help you. Q: how much do you think I would have to pay someone to actually be at the ready and watch me mine for 3 hours? Trick question, no one will do this. Literally no one. Nice try though. Not exactly. I mine in a Procurer in low-sec from time to time (an active FW war zone no less). I often have no difficulties doing so because...
1. I stay close to where friendlies are (within 1 system). 2. I fit my mining barge for PvP so I can "buy time" for friendlies to come and help me. 3. I don't pay my corpmates per se... I offer them the opportunity for kills (by being "bait")... which is all they really desire. However they do appreciate all the extra ISK in the corp wallet for POS fuel. 4. I don't rely on them for every combat related issue that comes up. I understand what I can take, what I can hold out against, and what I must run from.
Mind you... this means that I will never be able to fit for maximum mining efficiency... but there is a tradeoff for everything you do. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Alundil
The Unnamed. The NME Alliance
331
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Posted - 2013.10.18 02:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Alundil wrote:... passive/aggressive .... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Hmmmm......."indirect expression of hostility...."
Nope, I think I nailed it. And your hair definitely doesn't flow well enough to pull that quote off either.
Have another go at it sometime though. Your rate of success can only improve through further attempts. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
42
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Posted - 2013.10.18 03:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Not exactly. I mine in a Procurer in low-sec from time to time (an active FW war zone no less). I often have no difficulties doing so because... 1. I stay close to where friendlies are (within 1 system). 2. I fit my mining barge for PvP so I can "buy time" for friendlies to come and help me. 3. I don't pay my corpmates per se... I offer them the opportunity for kills (by being "bait")... which is all they really desire. However they do appreciate all the extra ISK in the corp wallet for POS fuel. 4. I don't rely on them for every combat related issue that comes up. I understand what I can take, what I can hold out against, and what I must run from. Mind you... this means that I will never be able to fit for maximum mining efficiency... but there is a tradeoff for everything you do.
Seems to me you have a good system, the skills and allies to do this are not easy to come by.
I never really understood the argument that lowsec was safer than highsec until i started mining. Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3460
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Seems to me you have a good system, the skills and allies to do this are not easy to come by. I pin a lot of my successes on the fact that I focused on PvP very early on in the game and remained very patient with the people I know.
I learned how to hunt people down, what the strengths and weaknesses of various ships were, what tactics are most effective for which situation... and then used that same knowledge to safeguard my more "carebearish" activities. It took awhile (5 years). I suffered many setbacks and still put up with more than few glaring personality flaws in the people I know... but I respected the "process" that the game puts you though.
I don't expect people to exactly replicate my journey or my results... but I do expect them learn how to use what they have to the best that they can use it... and to keep getting better. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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