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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.01 15:36:00 -
[31]
BTW those saying be carefull that the tier 3 doesnt replace the tier 2.
ATM a tempest is much more common then a typhoon. a megathron more common then a dominix a ravenmore common then the scorp gedden/apoc about even
it is likely that the tier 3 BS will be more used then the tier two. is this a bad thing? not really imo.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:06:00 -
[32]
its all about roles:
Amarr need a missle ship (khanid), caldari a gunship, gallente need a EWship and matari a constant DPS ship
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hylleX
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Nafri its all about roles:
Amarr need a missle ship (khanid),
Ha Ha spare us, sac was just changed cuz it was too khanid = very crappy. But lookin at the stats it doesnŠt look very khanid lets hope it stays that way. Unless they give crap ships to all races, gallente with projectile bonus and minnie with rail bonus, cuz thats what khanid is.
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Well kids you've tried your best and failed miserably, the lesson is: never try
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turnschuh
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:19:00 -
[34]
noooooooo
I want 8 Missile hardpoints on the tier3 minmatar ship
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:20:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino If the minmatar one has a split HP/split slot layout i will cry.
you forgot split hardpoints, a bonus to only half the weapons (one of wich is range :S ) and 10m/s faster and 10 sigradius to compensate...
it will be called the hurricane, have a toiletbowl as model and you will need it to get rid of your typhoon's in a sanitary way... --------------------------- My opinions are my own and not nessecarily those of my corp or alliance.
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K Shara
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:35:00 -
[36]
looking at the various cruisers and frigs and the obvious missing battleships....
the new BS doesnt need to be the best it needs to fill the holes...
Caldari Caldari is ht eonly one with differnt bonus's missile rof + missile velocity or ecm str + ecm range The obvious missing ship is a rail boat. Base it on teh MOA / EAGLE 10% optimal 5% Shield Res or 10% tracking
all the rest are difficult.
Amarr They have cap use + cap or cap use + rof I suppose cap use + tracking ? The obvious one is silly cap use + drone damage / hitpoints or even armour res + drone damage / hitpoints
Gallente They have damage + tracking or damage + range how about something interesting. Everyone seems to love Thoraxs, but we dont want an I win BS, so 5% reduced cap penalty for MWD's 5% armour res
Minmatar They have rof + damage or rof + range I think they need a EW ship, maybe ECM range + shield res
TBH I have no idea about the other ships as I dont fly them.
what do you guys think is missing.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:42:00 -
[37]
Hehe, Read the Minmatar control tower description. Says something like this:
"Instead of favouring tanking or firepower, minmatar go for speed"
I mean..
So with that in mind. Lets make that truly matter and go for a battleship with the speed of a cruiser. Because 10 m/s doesnt really cut it as a race's favoured tactic does it. -
- The fire burns..
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Gierling
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Posted - 2006.02.01 16:53:00 -
[38]
See the thing is that the tier ones are still (With the exception of the Typhoon and becuase of lag the dominix) very useful and have roles that they fill admirably.
IMHO I'm really pushing hard for the Cap penalty reduction and fallout bonus on the gallente boat. With 8 turrets it won't do significantly less damage then the mega, it will however hit significantly farther out and have a much easier time getting in range.
Imagine being able to hit out to 25k with Null ammo, whilst being able to MWD to that range without gimping yourself too badly. PLUS its still usefull in fleet operations. The mega is better at extreme long range and extreme short range, but the tier 3 would be easier to use, more effective as a blaster boat and subtly different while still capable and interesting.
All the ships should be like that. Be interesting, and encourage a slightly different take on the racial playstyles.
It would just be sad if we got the same bonuses tacked on a platform with more hitpoints, grid and turrets.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.02.01 17:03:00 -
[39]
Wouldnt a Caldari rail platform with 10% optimal be abit overpowered?
Rails already have very good optimal and falloff and giving a bonus like that would make all other sniper ships obsolete.
Or am i talking rubbish?
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Dreez
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Posted - 2006.02.01 17:12:00 -
[40]
1:st. The Tier.3 Battleships will probably not be t2, so we can forget about the 3:rd bonus. 2:nd. CCP have to release MULTIPLE BPOs, so we dont get these bloodsuckers demanding 500m/BS. 3:rd. Since they are tier 3 battleships, and obviosly all 4 races are trying to "overpower" the other races current ships, these new battlehips has to meet those expectations. 4:th. Dont mix up the diffrent areas which each race are "bound" to, meaning. Minmatar/Projs/Msl, Caldari/ECM/Msl, Gallente/blasters/Drones, Amarr/Capbeasts/Laserfreaks.
Current Location: In my Blasterthron chasing TomB with a blowtorch
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.02.01 17:15:00 -
[41]
Just give the minmatar a machariel-like look and I will be happy. Or, make it so horrible looking only a mother's love would make people want to fly it so it won't be so damned common.
Also, they should make BS lvl 5 a prerequesite. I know that won't happen but it should.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.02.01 17:17:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dreez
1:st. The Tier.3 Battleships will probably not be t2, so we can forget about the 3:rd bonus. 2:nd. CCP have to release MULTIPLE BPOs, so we dont get these bloodsuckers demanding 500m/BS. 3:rd. Since they are tier 3 battleships, and obviosly all 4 races are trying to "overpower" the other races current ships, these new battlehips has to meet those expectations. 4:th.
t1 ships m8, BPO's will prolly be on open market like all other t1 ships ;) Dont mix up the diffrent areas which each race are "bound" to, meaning. Minmatar/Projs/Msl, Caldari/ECM/Msl, Gallente/blasters/Drones, Amarr/Capbeasts/Laserfreaks.
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sarabando
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Posted - 2006.02.01 17:18:00 -
[43]
Edited by: sarabando on 01/02/2006 17:19:46 im looking forward to teir 3s and am glad that caldari get a rail boat. i hope min get a fast autocannon boat or a decent tank gal either a ew boat or support ship amarr a close range ship (smartbombs :) )
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Unuthiel
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Posted - 2006.02.01 18:00:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth Check near the bottom
What bothers me in those stats, if they are correct, is that the Caldari, Minmatar, and Gallente tier 3s appear to be based (looks and stats) on the respective tier 2s of those races, while the Amarr tier 3 appears to be based on the tier 1 Armageddon.
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.02.01 18:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Unuthiel
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth Check near the bottom
What bothers me in those stats, if they are correct, is that the Caldari, Minmatar, and Gallente tier 3s appear to be based (looks and stats) on the respective tier 2s of those races, while the Amarr tier 3 appears to be based on the tier 1 Armageddon.
There are only a few stats on each of those pages I'm willing to consider will remain the same. Those are the slot layouts and targetting info. This is because these are the only things that are radically different from the ships they are clearly based on. This is also why I think the Caldari BS will get an optimal bonus because it has the longest base lock range of all the Battleships (100km).
The only idea we can really draw from these are what CCPs intentions for each ships role is going to be.
Caldari is clearly going to be the ubersniper that has been sorely missing from the Caldari fleet (because Caldari are historically a Railgun/sniping focused race with missiles and EW as support).
Minmattar looks like a long range artillery sniper, Gallente actually looks more like a sniper than the Mega (it's touting a 92.5km lock range) and Amarr looks like yet another sniper.
Seriously the minmattar one has the worst lock range at only 82.5km (compare to the Phoon and Tempests ranges of ~60km) so I think this next Tier of BS will all be designed to snipe each other to death.
Which sucks really cos sniper-warfare is kinda dull and the Caldari will clearly win.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.02.01 18:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: The Major Which sucks really cos sniper-warfare is kinda dull and the Caldari will clearly win.
Maybe in a game where the fleets were mirrored each other race vs race. Since that game doesn't exist I would hardly say the Caldari will clearly win.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.02.01 19:21:00 -
[47]
I mean the Caldari win as in The Caldari BS wins.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.01 19:42:00 -
[48]
lets get them out, ballancing can be done later
id rather get 4 new unbalanced BS in 3months time and worked on to be balanced in 6months time. then to wait 6 months.
new BS FTW. finally ppl who love to fly BS get some love
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.02.01 19:59:00 -
[49]
I would ahte to see these rushed. If rushed they will be behemoths that make the rest of the BS pointless. We'll have the situation we have in cruisers atm, where theres no real reason to fly an omen rather than a maller, or a bellicose rather than a rupture. I don't want to see the top tier BS mothballing the previous ships. They need advantages yes, but something to make then less favorable in some circumstances.
I don't think Ewar ships will cut it for either Ammar or Minmatar, since they have the 25% useless tracking disruptors, and painters which aren't even ewar.
I can understand a dampner ship for gallente and a rail ship for caldari, but then they are pretty much already covered since a scorp can happily be fitted with dampners, and a thron will snipe nicely :)
In the end all the new BS will step on other races toes, and thats just life. I wouldn't be suprised if they went for hydridy ships between the power blocks, so maybe a drone carrier for minmatar, and a more missile based ammar ship (thats right not only the phoon gets to blow :P)
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Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.02.01 20:16:00 -
[50]
#1 I don't think Min need an Ewar ship. They don't do Ewar. Min need arty fixed and the Typhoon fixed. Once those problems are solved I would love to see a Min BS that actually is meaningful.
In all honesty I would like their tier 3 BS to be a smaller BS then the tempest but fast, lower sig radius, something that drones and autos would work nice on. Right now the Min don't really have a truly "fast" BS. I guess maybe I just want a giant stabber :).
#2 It has been said by the devs they are giving the Caldari an uber rail boat because the raven will be difficult to solo the new lvl 5 missions with.
#3 Blasters are completly broken, we don't need a new ship to use blasters there are many that have the powergrid. It is simple blasters DPS is way way way too low for the PG/CPU, the cap usage and range limits. A raven can do 2x the DPS of a blasterthron, with a better tank, etc.
They need to double the DPS of blasters (they do say they are the most damaging weapon in game so make them that!). Cut their CPU usage down by 5-10%. Then cut their cap usage down by a small amount.
#4 Yeah I think everyone agrees that a BS with an MWD bonus and damage bonus would be awesome for Gallente. If we could get a ship that could tank and fit neutrons (if they are every fixed) it might give Caldari something to fear.
#5 Despite my previous hopeful comments. It has already been said that Gal are getting a sensor damping BS. It has also become ovbious that the devs have no intentions of fixing Atry, Blasters, Typhoon, or any of the Gal/Min problems. So it is simple, Caldari once again just like in RMR will be the only ones getting anything nice. The rest of us just get shafted.
I mean seriously Lachesis or Rook? With how badly sensor damps were nerfed it ruined so many Gallente ships. I wish they would just change all their bonuses to something else... please for gods sake... warp scram range??? min has webber range... at least warp scram range would be useful!
on a final note GIVE ME MY DRONE DAMAGE MOD BACK!!! or at least update the patch notes with a reason for removing it!!!
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.02.01 20:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gronsak lets get them out, ballancing can be done later
id rather get 4 new unbalanced BS in 3months time and worked on to be balanced in 6months time. then to wait 6 months.
new BS FTW. finally ppl who love to fly BS get some love
As silly as that may sound I actually aggree. This is because it doesn't really matter how much CCP balances them in the labs they will be unbalanced anyway the very moment they hit the servers. Such is the way of all new ships in Eve. The sooner they are released the sooner the community can start whinging/provide constructive feedback and the sooner TomB will nerf Projectiles some more to spite us.
Whatever happens these ships will overshadow the old ones because they are NEW and all current Battleship pilots will be able to fly the new ship and who doesn't like new toys? This isn't a T2 or a Capital ship that only a small percentage of Eve will be able to use on day 1. This is a ship that most of us can use already and will be chomping at the bit to buy if only cos they are likely to be pretty to look at.
If all 4 are heavy snipers (which their preliminary stats suggest) then the sooner they hit TQ the sooner the evil process of rebalancing them to be in line with older Battleships will start.
The day CCP release ships that are balanced at launch the cluster will implode.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.01 20:26:00 -
[52]
blasters are gona be looked at already.
i dony want to see a SPECIFIC blaster galante boat. that makes the ship too specilised. having a mwd and a falloff bonous is gona mean its used for nothing but blaster boats. then your oponats know what u are fitted as, and also it can only be used for that one role.
and fyi if the stats on that website are correct the galante are NOT getting a blaster specific boat. since it has 200M^3 drone bay and i would expect a blaster specific ship to have 250M^3
another note, this could actually change a lot of stuff. they could for instance make art/rails/beams a lot harder to fit. so the new tier 3 become tomorrows snipers and the current tier 2 are molded into short range boats while the tier 1 are cheap versitile ships.
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Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.02.01 20:28:00 -
[53]
Just as a bloody question... why do so many Caldari people keep suggesting that a sensor damping boat is what Gallente need?
I mean seriously... the "I win" button not big enough for you already? I mean how many agent missions do you have to run before you become that blind?
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Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.02.01 20:50:00 -
[54]
Gronsak, yeah the devs said they were going to fix arty, blasters, phoon, etc in early-mid Jan.
Humm... the only thing they actually did in the early Jan patch was secretly remove the drone damage mod from the market that was added in RMR.
That was the ultimate statment of their intentions... they didn't even put it in the patch notes... the best module Gallente got in RMR and they just made it vanish without even feeling the need to document it.
Also they ovbiously aren't doing anything to fix those problems in early Jan or ever... the answers have already been spelled out very clearly by alot of people on the fourms. All the need to do is go and make those changes!
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.02.01 20:52:00 -
[55]
Min will get a bonus to hull resists and hull repairers. Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.02.01 20:55:00 -
[56]
Alright forget my previous comments in this post about the drone damage mod Tux just posted that it was removed cause it was bugged.
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.02.01 21:02:00 -
[57]
Ok now why do the caldari need a rail platform?and on top off that a sniper as it seems? Werent they the Missile/Ewar race? Minmatar Projectille/wathever? Galente Hybrids/drones Amarr Lasers /ermm armor like hell?
I hope CCP give's them some wicked bonus like minmatar BS3 10% do afterburner speed plus 5% to Rof make it fast paper thin..
To the Galente a mean hybrid monster with 8 turret slots and a bonus to MWD ,one of those ships that we cant /wont want up close to ya..
to the amarr and caldari i dont have any ideias ..
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.02.01 21:28:00 -
[58]
Only Devs said minmatars dont need EW. The playerbase uses Tempest as the BS EW plattform. I mean, which idiot tanks its Howiter Tempest? Just put 3 Jammers on it and you double your combat performance
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.02.01 21:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: hylleX
Originally by: Nafri its all about roles:
Amarr need a missle ship (khanid),
Ha Ha spare us, sac was just changed cuz it was too khanid = very crappy. But lookin at the stats it doesnŠt look very khanid lets hope it stays that way. Unless they give crap ships to all races, gallente with projectile bonus and minnie with rail bonus, cuz thats what khanid is.
ehh? wait, yeah, just get more then 15mio SP and you may use that ship
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.02.01 21:43:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Pesadel0 Ok now why do the caldari need a rail platform?and on top off that a sniper as it seems? Werent they the Missile/Ewar race? Minmatar Projectille/wathever? Galente Hybrids/drones Amarr Lasers /ermm armor like hell?
I hope CCP give's them some wicked bonus like minmatar BS3 10% do afterburner speed plus 5% to Rof make it fast paper thin..
To the Galente a mean hybrid monster with 8 turret slots and a bonus to MWD ,one of those ships that we cant /wont want up close to ya..
to the amarr and caldari i dont have any ideias ..
GRAGH! NO NEVER! EVER!
Can people PLEASE stop saying Caldari are the Missile/EW race? It is factualy incorrect both in fiction and in the game.
Caldari use missiles like the Gallente use Drones. They are in fact a support weapon that has a smattering of ships specialised towards their use. Back at launch NOBODY would dare use missiles as a primary weapon system except on the Raven (and when we all noticed you could fire Cruise missiles from Kestrels which made them the best ever suicide bombers).
The reasoning was simple: Missiles did cack damage, were bugged for the first six months and would get just about anybody using them in empire a hostile visit from CONCORD due to the ill-fated splash-damage.
Several years and many rebalances later and missiles finnally became a viable weapon system in their own right (the only exception to this was the Raven whose tank pretty much always made up for it's reliance on torpedos plus Torpedos would pop anything smaller than a BS at the time).
Every single class of ship in the Caldari line has the toughest ship with Rail related bonuses (ussually +10% optimal). Frigates you have the Merlin +10% optimal, The Cormorant gets a flat +50% bonus to optimal AND +10% optimal per level, Moa +10% optimal, Ferox +10% optimal. The ONLY point this stopped was with the Battleships where CCP saw fit to give us a Missile boat. We also have both Assault Frigates and The Eagle. All of which receive... That's right! +10% optimal! At the very LEAST.
So lets get this straight: Railguns are our Blasters, Missiles are our Drones. ECM are our sensor dampners.
Gallente do not own Hybrid turrets. GAH!
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