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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
151
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Posted - 2013.10.30 13:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
As for the OP, your ticket is still open you can still exercise your right to have the matter reviewed by a senior member of the GM department if you believe things to be amiss and it will be investigated.
Capital ships in high security space have been a regular discussion topic in the GM department ever since the events which resulted in the current rules for high-sec capitals.
To clarify the rules as they currently stand. If you use your high-sec capital for anything but mining or showing off, we will have to act on it. This includes attacking or defending from belt rats, and will also include the new player owned customs offices in high sec that are coming. They are for showing off or hangar decoration only and should not impact upon the game play of any other player in that system in any way (with mining being the only exception). High-sec capitals may not be sold, traded, or change hands through any means whatsoever.
We will be happy to review and reconsider said rules if that is what our community believes is something that needs to be done. Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
151
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Posted - 2013.10.30 13:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alt Two wrote:GM Spiral wrote:As for the OP, your ticket is still open you can still exercise your right to have the matter reviewed by a senior member of the GM department if you believe things to be amiss and it will be investigated.
Capital ships in high security space have been a regular discussion topic in the GM department ever since the events which resulted in the current rules for high-sec capitals.
To clarify the rules as they currently stand. If you use your high-sec capital for anything but mining or showing off, we will have to act on it. This includes attacking or defending from belt rats, and will also include the new player owned customs offices in high sec that are coming. They are for showing off or hangar decoration only and should not impact upon the game play of any other player in that system in any way (with mining being the only exception). High-sec capitals may not be sold, traded, or change hands through any means whatsoever.
We will be happy to review and reconsider said rules if that is what our community believes is something that needs to be done. Does using hardeners or other non-offensive tank modules to tank belt rats while mining count as "defending from belt rats"?
If he is not aggressing the NPCs, we are not going to consider it a violation. On the flip side, that carrier is not preventing others from killing these NPCs and profiting from it as it would if it killed them. Very minor profit, granted but we have to draw a line somewhere. Besides, we doubt that high sec belt rats could even kill an untanked carrier going from downtime to downtime so it hardly matters.
If someone now goes and loses a high sec carrier to NPCs in a belt based off my previous statement: No, you are not getting it back. :P Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
151
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Posted - 2013.10.30 13:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nicen Jehr wrote:GM Spiral wrote:...To clarify the rules as they currently stand. If you use your high-sec capital for anything but mining or showing off, we will have to act on it. This includes attacking or defending from belt rats, and will also include the new player owned customs offices in high sec that are coming. They are for showing off or hangar decoration only and should not impact upon the game play of any other player in that system in any way (with mining being the only exception)... can you explicitly state whether OP can shoot Interbus customs offices? (as opposed to player owned customs offices)? if I was in charge, I would let him... but I would also make shooting NOCO grant suspect flag alongside pve :)
"A player may not activate any hostile or assisting module, nor make use of any kind of drone or fighter drone, against any kind of structure (player or NPC owned), ship (player or NPC owned), or other asset (player or NPC owned) in high-security space with a capital ship normally restricted (under normal game mechanics) to 0.4 space or lower. "
Is this clear enough? :)
Whether or not our erstwhile allies in Game Design decide to have it cause some sort of flag within the Crimewatch system or not simply has no bearing on this. Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
152
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Posted - 2013.10.30 14:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Angel-agl Katelo wrote:CCP: you have lost my respect.
I understand not letting a capital shoot people in high sec, I understand not letting capitals be used in high sec wars. But a drone control mod? CCP is crying over a drone control mod?
Its a CARRIER it would be STUPID to not have a drone control mod on a ship that is designed specifically for that!
Congratulations CCP, you just removed another capital from high sec.
Please be aware that the ship in question is also explicitly designed not to have access to high security space. For historical reasons capitals ships that were produced in high security space are permitted to remain there, but that also means that we needed to construct some rules about how they could and could not be used there.
I will not comment on the OP's specific case here but we will remain in communication with them through the support ticket system should they wish to continue their correspondence with us.
As we have stated we are fully open to suggestions and ideas on how we should handle these exceptions, or even if we should have these exceptions at all. If you feel strongly about this then please lend your opinion to the discussion. Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
152
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Posted - 2013.10.30 14:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
The rules clarification written in this thread were written in response to this thread and are not currently on the Evelopedia. We'll make sure it is clear enough and then update the page. If you have any further feedback on this, it is welcome.
Capitals in high-sec are a legacy issue from way back when for a brief time certain types of capitals could be produced in high security space. Community feedback at the time resulted in the current incarnation of the rules and the permission for those capitals already built in high-sec to remain there. The discussion to change or remove these rules and special permissions has come up a few times in the past decade, but has been inconclusive.
The rules could be interpreted as an incentive for a high-sec capital pilot to contact us and request relocation to a low-sec system on their own accord. Ultimately it is an exception to intended and established game mechanics and will have to be continued being treated in that way.
And always remember: You can always defer a decision to a senior game master for a review. Our game masters are all human and have been known to err occasionally. We are usually more than happy to discuss and amend as required. :) Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
162
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hello again.
As promised we looked over the existing rules and clarified them as well as we could.
Capitals in Highsec on the Evelopedia
Hopefully what you may and may not do with these ships currently should be very clear.
Of note:
- "Two week ban" for breach against the rules has been removed. The only action will be removing the ship in question to low sec. Exception being if the ship changed ownership then that transaction will be reversed and the original owner warned (multiple/repeat warnings of any kind may result in a ban). The ban was not something we were enforcing and therefore should not belong in the rules any more.
- Addressed changes to the war mechanics not reflected in the old rules.
- Addressed changes in the crimewatch system not properly reflected in the old rules.
- Expanded the history section a bit. Still digging through the old site and might update with proper links and references when we find them.
Comments and suggestions are welcome. We also thank you for all the feedback already given in this thread. We'll continue to keep an eye on the discussion here. :) Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
164
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Posted - 2013.10.31 16:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:So since a player with a HS capital can never acquire an aggression flag with a cap and they cannot undock one during a war, the rest of us are denied the opportunity of destroying their HS capital ship. In eve destroying rare ships is an achievement - for confirmation just look at the destruction of the rev by "bl." Now we have a class of ships that cant be destroyed because of the "rules." Seems very short sighted, anti-sandbox and very un-eve like to me.
That is a valid point to an extent. That they are permitted to remain in high security space at all given the current game mechanics of capitals ships in EVE, they are already an anomaly. But historical reasons (see the events in 2008 quoted on the Evelopedia site) set the ball rolling in this direction. Ideas to revisit the option of moving them to low sec have been considered since them, but left alone for those same reasons.
These ships are showpieces and are simply not intended to take part in high sec game play in any way, and the current rules are aimed at keeping it that way. But the idea of simply abolishing the rules and letting what may come has been entertained, as have ideas of replacing them with de-militarised versions, or simply relocating them and have this episode closed. A viable solution that satisfies all (or most) parties simply has not been found and these ships are currently causing so little trouble as to negligible.
But rest assured, there will be no drastic changes to the current state of affairs without ample prior discussion with the community. The Veldnought scare of 2008 (as GM Grimmi put it) is still remembered.
Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
164
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Posted - 2013.10.31 17:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:What about a high-sec gank... It'll just take a lot of work. The rules do not forbid others to attempt a suicide gank. The capital pilot has the onus of not initiating any actions or take any actions to persist flagging.
Lucas Kell wrote:I have a question. Since this has all escalated from Astecus having a rage fit over his carrier, and he's now had it restored, it makes me wonder how he got away with receiving it in the first place? Since capitals in high sec can never be traded within the rules, how did he receive the carrier in trade in September? And surely the act of receiving the carrier is in violation of the rules anyway? So why was it reimbursed?
The original phrasing of the rules as they were on the Evelopedia prior to us editing it (can view edit history to confirm this): "4. You may not sell or put your capital up for sale while in high security space."
Previously the act of selling the ship was a violation, this is now expanded to include all ownership change. The previous phrasing was simply inadequate. Assuming that your statement in regard to his trade is true, we would in all likelihood leave it be unless ISK or other assets were involved in the trade (thus falling under the old phrasing).
If you feel this is cause for concern then we invite you to contact us with a support ticket and the matter will be reviewed, and we will attempt to address your concerns. Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
168
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Posted - 2013.11.01 16:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Julius Priscus wrote:so what you are saying is...if I own a high sec cap ship and I decide to lave to game.. then sell my character on the bazaa.. what does one do with a cap ship you cannot trade owners??? personally I could careless if it is traded in high sec... the no pvp rule would still apply. If you are leaving the game, why are you selling your character? That scenario aside, if you wanted to sell a character that actually included a high sec capital then we would appreciate if you would contact us beforehand and we'd consider options available.
Abdiel Kavash wrote:What is the CCP stance towards capitals and supercapitals that have been moved to highsec either due to a GM petition resolution, or after an user was unsubscribed for 6 months? Both of these events semi-regularly result in new highsec caps and supercaps, but neither is mentioned in the Evelopedia article. If caught within a reasonable time frame (lovely concept), we will simply apologize to the pilot and move the ship to a legitimate location. If a longer time has lapsed then we will generally leave it be as long as the pilot in question observes the rules already established (most got caught trying to sell them). The original loophole which permitted such ships to enter high sec completely without GM intervention was closed a long time ago and it is currently very rare for such ships to accidentally find their way to high sec nowadays.
BoBoZoBo wrote:Yay - more overly complicated solutions to already solved problems. I know, right?
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Since a GM is floating around...
Might I ask, why is there a ban on the buying and selling of such things?
I'd jump at the chance to get one in highsec... They are not supposed to provide any game play in high sec. We deemed this included possibly profiting from one by selling it. They are just for show, you can not profit or otherwise benefit from them. That is all.
Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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