Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Astecus
Astral Sanctuary - 4th Division
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I own a highsec Archon, and while pondering about the upcoming player owned customs offices (POCOs) in highsec, I started thinking that it would be fun if I could use my Archon to help destroy the initial NPC Interbus customs offices that needs to be destroyed before players can put up their own. I had until now been of the impression that highsec capitals should generally never be involved in PvP, but PvE is okay. I was familiar with the rules listed in the red box at wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capitals_in_Highsec, and I came to the conclusion that killing the NPC office faster would not really be much of an advantage, since other players could basically just sit and watch, and be ready to put up their own office as soon as the NPC one had been destroyed. Anyone can shoot the NPC office and they will likely be destroyed pretty quickly anyway, but I decided to open a support ticket and ask CCP to be on the safe side.
What followed got me a little surprised and confused. After a little back and forth, I asked for clarification about the first rule, specifically asking if this was refering to attacking NPC entities as well. I would have liked to just paste the reply here, but I think that might be against the rules. I will instead say that the first paragraph of the reply stated categorically that the rule was covering PvE as well. The second paragraph then said that killing belt rats is okay, refering to them as trivial.
It seemed like the reply was contradicting itself, so when even GMs are interpreting the rules confusingly, it might be time to update them.
The existing rules are as follows:
1. Capital ships may under no circumstances be used for aggression. 2. If at war, or with war declaration pending, you may not take your capital ship out of station. 3. You may not use your capital shipGÇÖs attributes to gain any sort of advantage over other players while in high security space. 4. You may not sell or put your capital up for sale while in high security space.
I am now suggesting updating them to something like this:
1. High security capitals may never be actively involved in PvP by doing hostile actions or remote assistance towards any other player owned entity. 2. High security capitals may only be involved in PvE if the activity in question can be done just as easily/good by a sub-capital ship. 3. High security capitals may not be put on the market, or otherwise sold/traded for any kind of gain.
I dropped the rule about wars because it seemed redundant, only covering the act of undocking - if you simply remained in space it would seem like no rules were broken. I also think that the new first rule covers any kind of PvP that the capital could be involved in during a war, and if one is concerned that the simple presence of a capital can affect a war, I would argue that it is really dumb to declare war while flying highsec capitals. It is much more logical to receive wardecs however, my Archon pilot actually received one yesterday, probably just because they wanted to shoot my Archon. Which is a good reason to let them undock, everybody wants to see capitals go boom, right?
These rules would also clearly state that "mock pvp fights with members of your own corp" is not allowed, clearing up any kind of doubt the author of the wiki page seems to have, as mentioned at the bottom of said page. I believe this to be reasonable, since socalled reverse awoxing seems to be common.
I believe these rules will also clearly show what kind of activity would be allowed. As long as an exhumer can mine just as good, you can use your capital for mining. As long as a battleship can kill rats just as easily, you can use your capital for this. But in relation to doing level 4 security misions, it would be obvious that the capital would have an far easier time tanking the rats than any battleship, so this would not be okay. My rattlesnake can tank level 3 security missions all day, so this would be okay again.
Highsec capitals will only become more and more rare as the years go by, which makes them more and more of an attraction. We don't want to lose them to silly confusion about rules.
And now back to the customs offices. Under the suggested rules, it would be okay to attack the NPC office with my Archon if a battleship could do the same just as good. Giving the nature of these offices, the only attribute on a ship that would matter would be the dps, no NPCs or players will be fighting back, so tank does not matter. An Archon with 15 fighters can do 1500 dps, but fighters get no bonus from Drone Damage Amplifier II, so by using 7 of those and 15x Garde II sentries, it can get a dps of 1653 according to EFT. I then tried fitting a Dominix Navy Issue and got myself a surprise. By fitting 6x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, 4x Drone Damage Amplifier II, 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II and 5x Garde II, it gets a dps of 1739 with Void ammo. Both fits are with max skills, no implants and no midslots or rig slots used.
So a Dominix Navy Issue can actually get a higher dps than my Archon. If my capital had been a dreadnaught or even a Thanatos, it would have been different. But my capital is an Archon, it will never leave Otela and its fighters have trouble hitting belt rats. We are some people here from different corps wanting to work together to set up POCOs with zero tax, and would love to see some fighters in action as we clear out the Interbus offices. Destroying these offices only happens once, so it could be called an event. Many highsec dwellers have never seen a carrier before, how many have seen one putting its fighters to good use?
I think this would be fair use of an Archon, what do you think?
(PS: My Archon pilot is Astesia and can be seen regularly in the Otela ice belt) |
iskflakes
701
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. - |
Betty Bly
State War Academy Caldari State
1241
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
No... "The dead know only one thing: It is better to be alive." |
Montevius Williams
The Scope Gallente Federation
642
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is the most detailed response I have ever seen in the history of the internet. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1512
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nope. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4944
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
skillless structure shooter There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Prince Golem
Yodasmaster Corp
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't see a problem with using your capital on interbus customs office since it's a one time deal. Those rules should be updated as well. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3505
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would think that shooting POCOs in order to allow yourself or others to set up a POCO would be considered PvP. It affects others by disrupting and changing income streams for better or worse. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Greenmachine Sale
Fyght Club SpaceMonkey's Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 02:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
lmao you're all jealous hahahahaha fags |
Cuddle Monster
Schwarzschild Casimir Collective STR8NGE BREW
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Let me preface by saying I don't know what the punishment is for breaking the hi sec capital rules as it isn't listed in that link.
If you feel so strongly about making this a historic thing and want to show off for the locals why don't you?
This is on the thought process that the consequences will likely be loss of your capital in hi sec, which is largely useless anyway. So why not let it go out with a great story to tell? |
|
Astecus
Astral Sanctuary - 4th Division
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cuddle Monster wrote:Let me preface by saying I don't know what the punishment is for breaking the hi sec capital rules as it isn't listed in that link.
5. Breach any of the above and receive 2 weeks ban and off to low sec with your capital. |
Cuddle Monster
Schwarzschild Casimir Collective STR8NGE BREW
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Astecus wrote:Cuddle Monster wrote:Let me preface by saying I don't know what the punishment is for breaking the hi sec capital rules as it isn't listed in that link. 5. Breach any of the above and receive 2 weeks ban and off to low sec with your capital.
Jeez big red box and I missed it. :) |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Nulli Secunda
565
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
I always thought the main rule was no offensive module may be fitted to a hisec capital. I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4944
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
good thing drones aren't a module.. ? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
537
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Astecus wrote:
what do you think?
I think you should have your archon moved to low sec just for this post. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
1756
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 03:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
I suggest the rules be amended so that the punishment is the relocation is to VFK. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
Cannibal Kane
My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse Cannibal Empire
2591
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 06:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:I suggest the rules be amended so that the punishment is the relocation is to VFK.
And then turned into a noob ship so Harry can shoot at it so we can hear more about his 1 vs 5000 people exploits. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Joffy Aulx-Gao
Stay Frosty.
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 06:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
When you engage an interbus customs office you will get a suspect timer so my question is what would you do if someone engaged and scrammed your Archon? |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15609
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 07:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Oxide Ammar
Equilibrium Tech Labs
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 07:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Everyone above farted "No" has never give reasonable counter arguments of why pve activity like this can't go through, as someone said they are jealous much |
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1727
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 08:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Your argument that the Archon would do less damage than a BS is fair enough, but attacking the NOCO will mean everyone will attack your Archon? I don't think CCP wants a highsec cap to be the focus of a fight |
admiral root
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
619
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 09:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you really want to shoot customs offices with a carrier take it to low / nullsec. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Astecus
Astral Sanctuary - 4th Division
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 11:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Joffy Aulx-Gao wrote:When you engage an interbus customs office you will get a suspect timer so my question is what would you do if someone engaged and scrammed your Archon?
The devblog at community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/player-owned-customs-offices-in-hi-sec does not mention anything at all about turning suspect, and if this was the case, lots of people would just gather around the offices and quickly vanquish anyone trying to shoot it, basically causing it to take potensially forever to remove it. I believe the offices have around 14.5 million HP, which takes a while to take down, even when you are left alone.
If attacking it would indeed flag people as suspects, I would never use my Archon for this, and probably not any battleship either. |
Baali Tekitsu
State Protectorate Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 11:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Astecus wrote:Joffy Aulx-Gao wrote:When you engage an interbus customs office you will get a suspect timer so my question is what would you do if someone engaged and scrammed your Archon? The devblog at community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/player-owned-customs-offices-in-hi-sec does not mention anything at all about turning suspect, and if this was the case, lots of people would just gather around the offices and quickly vanquish anyone trying to shoot it, basically causing it to take potensially forever to remove it. I believe the offices have around 14.5 million HP, which takes a while to take down, even when you are left alone. If attacking it would indeed flag people as suspects, I would never use my Archon for this, and probably not any battleship either.
If you attack an Interbus office you get a flag, if you attack a player owned one you need a wardec or get concorded. |
Astecus
Astral Sanctuary - 4th Division
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 13:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:If you attack an Interbus office you get a flag
Quote from forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3735448#post3735448:
CCP Paradox wrote:POCOs will flag you as Criminal in High-Sec. I am assuming you mean the InterBus CO (not POCO, thats player-owned.). An attack on these results in no consequence except PvE timer. CONCORD doesn't care about InterBus, neither do the faction navy/police.
You will get a PvE logoff timer, just like you get every time you shoot NPCs or they shoot you. This is not a suspect timer, even though they have similar colors in the top left corner. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
538
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 13:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Astecus wrote:
If attacking it would indeed flag people as suspects, I would never use my Archon for this, and probably not any battleship either.
This is the exact reason it SHOULD flag you as suspect just like low sec ones gave you GCC. Weed out the bads that will just be here crying about the war decs after their poop corp ninjas in a poco.
|
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
101
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 13:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Astecus wrote: The existing rules are as follows:
1. Capital ships may under no circumstances be used for aggression.
If you can't understand the very FIRST rule listed, perhaps you shouldn't be trusted to have one in hi sec in the first place.
inb4 tedious reality altering arguments of how blowing **** up is not considered aggression... |
Batelle
RisingSuns
242
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hahahahha no. Fighting is Magic |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
2245
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Everyone above farted "No" has never give reasonable counter arguments of why pve activity like this can't go through, as someone said they are jealous much
*fart*
This can't go through for two reasons:
One - A carrier is capable of more than double the DPS of the next leading droneboat Two - A carrier is capable of tanking far more than the next leading droneboat whilst dealing this DPS Three - It's cheaper than the next leading pimp droneboat.
I very much doubt anybody is jealous of your 1.2bil hull that's stuck in highsec and useless; if you fancy taking a jaunt down to null you'll see things with 100x the value being actively used in combat, or hop into wormhole space and see "leet" ships like yours being used in group PVE, rather than rotting in a station. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2304
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote: if you fancy taking a jaunt down to null you'll see things with 100x the value being actively used in combat and ratting, or hop into wormhole space and see "leet" ships like yours being used in group PVE and PvP, rather than rotting in a station.
Fixed it for you. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |