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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
125
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Posted - 2013.10.31 13:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
You know we are only talking about carriers and dreads here. These are not supercarriers that can only be destroyed by other supercarriers. Carriers and dreads can both be destroyed by subcapital fleets. Further the hs capitals are limited in their movements because they cannot cyno around hs. Hence, its not likely that you are going to see multiple capitals assisting each other. In view of the above, I say remove the combat restrictions from the few remaining carriers and dreads in hs. Destroying such a ship would clearly be both fun and an achievement. Let those who own such ships take them out to use in whatever system they are docked in if they dare. They will produce content for eve's players and slowly but surely attrition will solve the hs capital "problem." I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
191
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:15:00 -
[122] - Quote
The object of the Highsec Capitals rules are to allow those Capital ships which were built in Highsec and which never left and which therefore represent a piece of grandfathered history to persist while ensuring that they have no impact on the game at all other than as tourist attractions.
The first question therefore is whether this Archon is a true highsec capital. If it is then you're running into the issue of aggression; by agressing the Customs Office you're breaking the first rule... so don't. If it isn't a true highsec capital then aggressing the customs office would amount to an exploit and (probable) ban... so don't; just move it back to where you need it and avoid the attentions of the GMs.
In short... No, I would not support a change to the rules on Highsec Capitals.
The only exception I would make would be to have a CCP managed and updated register of highsec capital holders* and to allow the trading again.
*Alternative, give each current and bona fide highsec capital a "certificate" of authenticity; any capital in highsec which does not have a "certificate" in its cargohold will be moved to lowsec...
For "certificate" read "Specialist Exotic Dancer entitled The 'You won EVE dance'". |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
221
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:32:00 -
[123] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Read. Between. The. Damn. Lines. People.
The. GMs. Are. Willing. To. Fix. This. Problem. And. Are. Also. Using. It. As. An. Excuse. To. Clarify. The. Rules.
Sheesh, the GM didn't flat out say "escalate the petition and we'll restore your highsec carrier" but he repeatedly said everything but. . .
Called it. Two hours before it happened.
Because I know how to read. Sometimes these forums just make me sad :( I am not an alt of Chribba. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
162
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:33:00 -
[124] - Quote
Hello again.
As promised we looked over the existing rules and clarified them as well as we could.
Capitals in Highsec on the Evelopedia
Hopefully what you may and may not do with these ships currently should be very clear.
Of note:
- "Two week ban" for breach against the rules has been removed. The only action will be removing the ship in question to low sec. Exception being if the ship changed ownership then that transaction will be reversed and the original owner warned (multiple/repeat warnings of any kind may result in a ban). The ban was not something we were enforcing and therefore should not belong in the rules any more.
- Addressed changes to the war mechanics not reflected in the old rules.
- Addressed changes in the crimewatch system not properly reflected in the old rules.
- Expanded the history section a bit. Still digging through the old site and might update with proper links and references when we find them.
Comments and suggestions are welcome. We also thank you for all the feedback already given in this thread. We'll continue to keep an eye on the discussion here. :) Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
163
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Posted - 2013.10.31 16:04:00 -
[125] - Quote
Looks like my old Evelopedia article has finally grown up. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
126
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Posted - 2013.10.31 16:29:00 -
[126] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:Hello again. As promised we looked over the existing rules and clarified them as well as we could. Capitals in Highsec on the Evelopedia Hopefully what you may and may not do with these ships currently should be very clear. Of note:
- "Two week ban" for breach against the rules has been removed. The only action will be removing the ship in question to low sec. Exception being if the ship changed ownership then that transaction will be reversed and the original owner warned (multiple/repeat warnings of any kind may result in a ban). The ban was not something we were enforcing and therefore should not belong in the rules any more.
- Addressed changes to the war mechanics not reflected in the old rules.
- Addressed changes in the crimewatch system not properly reflected in the old rules.
- Expanded the history section a bit. Still digging through the old site and might update with proper links and references when we find them.
Comments and suggestions are welcome. We also thank you for all the feedback already given in this thread. We'll continue to keep an eye on the discussion here. :)
So since a player with a HS capital can never acquire an aggression flag with a cap and they cannot undock one during a war, the rest of us are denied the opportunity of destroying their HS capital ship. In eve destroying rare ships is an achievement - for confirmation just look at the destruction of the rev by "bl." Now we have a class of ships that cant be destroyed because of the "rules." Seems very short sighted, anti-sandbox and very un-eve like to me.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
225
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Posted - 2013.10.31 16:43:00 -
[127] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:GM Spiral wrote:Hello again. As promised we looked over the existing rules and clarified them as well as we could. Capitals in Highsec on the Evelopedia Hopefully what you may and may not do with these ships currently should be very clear. Of note:
- "Two week ban" for breach against the rules has been removed. The only action will be removing the ship in question to low sec. Exception being if the ship changed ownership then that transaction will be reversed and the original owner warned (multiple/repeat warnings of any kind may result in a ban). The ban was not something we were enforcing and therefore should not belong in the rules any more.
- Addressed changes to the war mechanics not reflected in the old rules.
- Addressed changes in the crimewatch system not properly reflected in the old rules.
- Expanded the history section a bit. Still digging through the old site and might update with proper links and references when we find them.
Comments and suggestions are welcome. We also thank you for all the feedback already given in this thread. We'll continue to keep an eye on the discussion here. :) So since a player with a HS capital can never acquire an aggression flag with a cap and they cannot undock one during a war, the rest of us are denied the opportunity of destroying their HS capital ship. In eve destroying rare ships is an achievement - for confirmation just look at the destruction of the rev by "bl." Now we have a class of ships that cant be destroyed because of the "rules." Seems very short sighted, anti-sandbox and very un-eve like to me.
What about a high-sec gank... It'll just take a lot of work. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1492
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Posted - 2013.10.31 16:54:00 -
[128] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:Hello again. As promised we looked over the existing rules and clarified them as well as we could. Capitals in Highsec on the Evelopedia Hopefully what you may and may not do with these ships currently should be very clear. Of note:
- "Two week ban" for breach against the rules has been removed. The only action will be removing the ship in question to low sec. Exception being if the ship changed ownership then that transaction will be reversed and the original owner warned (multiple/repeat warnings of any kind may result in a ban). The ban was not something we were enforcing and therefore should not belong in the rules any more.
- Addressed changes to the war mechanics not reflected in the old rules.
- Addressed changes in the crimewatch system not properly reflected in the old rules.
- Expanded the history section a bit. Still digging through the old site and might update with proper links and references when we find them.
Comments and suggestions are welcome. We also thank you for all the feedback already given in this thread. We'll continue to keep an eye on the discussion here. :) I have a question. Since this has all escalated from Astecus having a rage fit over his carrier, and he's now had it restored, it makes me wonder how he got away with receiving it in the first place? Since capitals in high sec can never be traded within the rules, how did he receive the carrier in trade in September? And surely the act of receiving the carrier is in violation of the rules anyway? So why was it reimbursed? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
164
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Posted - 2013.10.31 16:56:00 -
[129] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:So since a player with a HS capital can never acquire an aggression flag with a cap and they cannot undock one during a war, the rest of us are denied the opportunity of destroying their HS capital ship. In eve destroying rare ships is an achievement - for confirmation just look at the destruction of the rev by "bl." Now we have a class of ships that cant be destroyed because of the "rules." Seems very short sighted, anti-sandbox and very un-eve like to me.
That is a valid point to an extent. That they are permitted to remain in high security space at all given the current game mechanics of capitals ships in EVE, they are already an anomaly. But historical reasons (see the events in 2008 quoted on the Evelopedia site) set the ball rolling in this direction. Ideas to revisit the option of moving them to low sec have been considered since them, but left alone for those same reasons.
These ships are showpieces and are simply not intended to take part in high sec game play in any way, and the current rules are aimed at keeping it that way. But the idea of simply abolishing the rules and letting what may come has been entertained, as have ideas of replacing them with de-militarised versions, or simply relocating them and have this episode closed. A viable solution that satisfies all (or most) parties simply has not been found and these ships are currently causing so little trouble as to negligible.
But rest assured, there will be no drastic changes to the current state of affairs without ample prior discussion with the community. The Veldnought scare of 2008 (as GM Grimmi put it) is still remembered.
Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
164
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Posted - 2013.10.31 17:32:00 -
[130] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:What about a high-sec gank... It'll just take a lot of work. The rules do not forbid others to attempt a suicide gank. The capital pilot has the onus of not initiating any actions or take any actions to persist flagging.
Lucas Kell wrote:I have a question. Since this has all escalated from Astecus having a rage fit over his carrier, and he's now had it restored, it makes me wonder how he got away with receiving it in the first place? Since capitals in high sec can never be traded within the rules, how did he receive the carrier in trade in September? And surely the act of receiving the carrier is in violation of the rules anyway? So why was it reimbursed?
The original phrasing of the rules as they were on the Evelopedia prior to us editing it (can view edit history to confirm this): "4. You may not sell or put your capital up for sale while in high security space."
Previously the act of selling the ship was a violation, this is now expanded to include all ownership change. The previous phrasing was simply inadequate. Assuming that your statement in regard to his trade is true, we would in all likelihood leave it be unless ISK or other assets were involved in the trade (thus falling under the old phrasing).
If you feel this is cause for concern then we invite you to contact us with a support ticket and the matter will be reviewed, and we will attempt to address your concerns. Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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Julius Priscus
168
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Posted - 2013.10.31 18:19:00 -
[131] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote: They are for showing off or hangar decoration only and should not impact upon the game play of any other player in that system in any way (with mining being the only exception). High-sec capitals may not be sold, traded, or change hands through any means whatsoever.
We will be happy to review and reconsider said rules if that is what our community believes is something that needs to be done.
so what you are saying is...if I own a high sec cap ship and I decide to lave to game.. then sell my character on the bazaa.. what does one do with a cap ship you cannot trade owners??? personally I could careless if it is traded in high sec... the no pvp rule would still apply. -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Astecus
Astral Sanctuary - 4th Division
46
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Posted - 2013.10.31 20:14:00 -
[132] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:Previously the act of selling the ship was a violation, this is now expanded to include all ownership change. The previous phrasing was simply inadequate. Assuming that your statement in regard to his trade is true, we would in all likelihood leave it be unless ISK or other assets were involved in the trade (thus falling under the old phrasing). As mentioned in the themittani.com article, the Archon was indeed given to me for free. Since I got it fully fitted, and have since changed the fit, I have refrained from giving the old unused fitting back to the previous owner, solely because of the rule against selling these ships.
Julius Priscus wrote:so what you are saying is...if I own a high sec cap ship and I decide to lave to game.. then sell my character on the bazaa.. what does one do with a cap ship you cannot trade owners??? personally I could careless if it is traded in high sec... the no pvp rule would still apply. This is a good question. To be honest, I don't really see why they could not be traded freely, just like every other unique/limited ship. In what situation would this become a problem? |
Gatran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.11.01 00:55:00 -
[133] - Quote
Quote:I challenge you to find me a ratting titan. No, seriously.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYgD52u2ts
lol |
Sirinda
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
241
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:33:00 -
[134] - Quote
Mother of God.jpg
Also, has this abomination been put to rest yet? |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1603
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:47:00 -
[135] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:Hello again. As promised we looked over the existing rules and clarified them as well as we could. Capitals in Highsec on the Evelopedia Comments and suggestions are welcome. We also thank you for all the feedback already given in this thread. We'll continue to keep an eye on the discussion here. :) What is the CCP stance towards capitals and supercapitals that have been moved to highsec either due to a GM petition resolution, or after an user was unsubscribed for 6 months? Both of these events semi-regularly result in new highsec caps and supercaps, but neither is mentioned in the Evelopedia article. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2779
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:51:00 -
[136] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:GM Spiral wrote:Hello again. As promised we looked over the existing rules and clarified them as well as we could. Capitals in Highsec on the Evelopedia Comments and suggestions are welcome. We also thank you for all the feedback already given in this thread. We'll continue to keep an eye on the discussion here. :) What is the CCP stance towards capitals and supercapitals that have been moved to highsec either due to a GM petition resolution, or after an user was unsubscribed for 6 months? Both of these events semi-regularly result in new highsec caps and supercaps, but neither is mentioned in the Evelopedia article. Shhh! Stop spitting on my cupcake man!
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Kirryan
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
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Posted - 2013.11.01 12:51:00 -
[137] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:TharOkha wrote:Jennifer Maxwell wrote:I don't see the opposition to highsec capitals when they're not negatively impacting the game in any way.
I'd absolutely love to have one. So buy one in lowsec for f sake. I remember the old days when i brought my first carrier and delivered it toi empty lowsec. I was playing with that toy all day long doing that "brrrrrm" sound and i enjoyed it. You could do it too. Going "brrrrrrm" around lowsec isn't the point; going "brrrrrrm" around highsec is. Sure it's a matter of having something other people can't easily get, of course there's a desire to show off my awesome super special ship. But it's more than that. It's also knowing that I could be inspiring some new player. I could be showing them something they probably won't be seeing for quite some time. Call it what you will, but the first time I saw a capital ship, just a month ago, it was kinda awe inspiring. Sure I looked at them in the ship viewer. But that's not really comparable to flying next to one. You can go on and on about how easy it is to go find one: "just jump into Nullsec, there are shittons there". But the vast majority of new players won't make it to Null for a good while. I mean, what is there really in highsec that's awe inspiring? You've got stations, those are big. And planets. Moons. POSes, if you're desperate. I guess you could say those industrial ships are "big", but it's an industrial ship; a glorified tanker. It's not really the same as seeing a Carrier or Dreadnaught in highsec. Especially when you know those ships are so rare. I'd gladly give up offensive modules on it to be able to fly it around highsec.
You know, you can't 'fly it around highsec' right?
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Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
67
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Posted - 2013.11.01 15:57:00 -
[138] - Quote
... post ate, re-editing |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
350
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Posted - 2013.11.01 16:37:00 -
[139] - Quote
Yay - more overly complicated solutions to already solved problems. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle
1341
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Posted - 2013.11.01 16:45:00 -
[140] - Quote
Since a GM is floating around...
Might I ask, why is there a ban on the buying and selling of such things?
I'd jump at the chance to get one in highsec... Support my (possibly dumb) Ideas!! Worm Rebalance!!! |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
168
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Posted - 2013.11.01 16:59:00 -
[141] - Quote
Julius Priscus wrote:so what you are saying is...if I own a high sec cap ship and I decide to lave to game.. then sell my character on the bazaa.. what does one do with a cap ship you cannot trade owners??? personally I could careless if it is traded in high sec... the no pvp rule would still apply. If you are leaving the game, why are you selling your character? That scenario aside, if you wanted to sell a character that actually included a high sec capital then we would appreciate if you would contact us beforehand and we'd consider options available.
Abdiel Kavash wrote:What is the CCP stance towards capitals and supercapitals that have been moved to highsec either due to a GM petition resolution, or after an user was unsubscribed for 6 months? Both of these events semi-regularly result in new highsec caps and supercaps, but neither is mentioned in the Evelopedia article. If caught within a reasonable time frame (lovely concept), we will simply apologize to the pilot and move the ship to a legitimate location. If a longer time has lapsed then we will generally leave it be as long as the pilot in question observes the rules already established (most got caught trying to sell them). The original loophole which permitted such ships to enter high sec completely without GM intervention was closed a long time ago and it is currently very rare for such ships to accidentally find their way to high sec nowadays.
BoBoZoBo wrote:Yay - more overly complicated solutions to already solved problems. I know, right?
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Since a GM is floating around...
Might I ask, why is there a ban on the buying and selling of such things?
I'd jump at the chance to get one in highsec... They are not supposed to provide any game play in high sec. We deemed this included possibly profiting from one by selling it. They are just for show, you can not profit or otherwise benefit from them. That is all.
Senior Game Master | CCP Games Customer Support Team
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle
1341
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Posted - 2013.11.01 17:38:00 -
[142] - Quote
So, one could be sold for market average price. As it won't cost more then one in lowsec/nullsec. Even if the reason of buying one is to do laps around stations for exercise.
I'd understand if someone was selling a Chimera for 10 Billion being an advantage. But what if someone wanted to sell one for 10-15 Mil cheaper then market price? Nothing would be broken nor any advantage would be given. Support my (possibly dumb) Ideas!! Worm Rebalance!!! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2239
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Posted - 2013.11.01 17:40:00 -
[143] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:Julius Priscus wrote:so what you are saying is...if I own a high sec cap ship and I decide to lave to game.. then sell my character on the bazaa.. what does one do with a cap ship you cannot trade owners??? personally I could careless if it is traded in high sec... the no pvp rule would still apply. If you are leaving the game, why are you selling your character? That scenario aside, if you wanted to sell a character that actually included a high sec capital then we would appreciate if you would contact us beforehand and we'd consider options available. An answer could be : " I have a friend who wants to keep playing and likes my character. So I plan on transferring him all my assets, selling him my character for 1 ISK, and leaving". From your reply above I guess such a player should contact the GMs to see if arrangements can be made. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1522
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Posted - 2013.11.01 18:07:00 -
[144] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:We will be happy to review and reconsider said rules if that is what our community believes is something that needs to be done.
How about just move them all into low or null, irrespective of what they are used for? Problem solved. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
167
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Posted - 2013.11.01 19:34:00 -
[145] - Quote
Eve is a persistent universe. If things change, artifacts stay behind. Adapting everything to the NWO is the opposite of persistent.
On the other hand, that move could conceivably have happened in 2006 when the manufacturing lines have changed. In 2013/2014? Not so much. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1614
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Posted - 2013.11.01 19:42:00 -
[146] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:GM Spiral wrote:We will be happy to review and reconsider said rules if that is what our community believes is something that needs to be done. How about just move them all into low or null, irrespective of what they are used for? Problem solved. Because of Veldnaught. |
Verite Rendition
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
136
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Posted - 2013.11.02 04:18:00 -
[147] - Quote
I don't mind the new rules against ratting, but coupled with what you guys have done to the Phoenix over the last year it's kind of a downer. As the only real activity we're allowed to engage in, it's rather difficult to go mining in a ship that doesn't have drones and doesn't have a turret hardpoint. |
destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
216
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Posted - 2013.11.02 04:54:00 -
[148] - Quote
im confused what if a said carrier in hs is mining and suicide gankers come in and try and gank him. can he shoot back or just die horrible. then again that would take alot of tornado's |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1625
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Posted - 2013.11.02 21:36:00 -
[149] - Quote
If you are mining in a dreadnaught, does activating a siege mod to prevent being bumped count as an unfair advantage? |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
221
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Posted - 2013.11.06 21:19:00 -
[150] - Quote
Astecus wrote:This is a good question. To be honest, I don't really see why they could not be traded freely, just like every other unique/limited ship. In what situation would this become a problem?
Probably because it ensures that only people who know the rules, and know them well, have these highsec capitals.
Just more headaches for GMs if one of these gets traded to someone who doesn't understand the very specific, highly technical, and honestly hard-to-find "rules" that govern their use.
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