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Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.26 19:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
This module to me is overpowered and gives a huge bonus to both tracking and range of drones, i would like to see the module changed to something like a tracking computer with scripts and to be an active module. |
marVLs
477
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Posted - 2013.10.26 19:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
it's only OP to You, move on |
Karen Avioras
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.10.26 19:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
That sounds like a terrible idea. |
King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
364
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Posted - 2013.10.26 19:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nah, drones don't need to be nerfed. I admit the module is much more powerful than it's TC equivalent but it all seems to work out in the end. The Troll is trolling. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
77
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Posted - 2013.10.26 20:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
In which way is it OP, if I may ask? |
zbaaca
POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide.
56
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Posted - 2013.10.26 23:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
25% optimal+tracking for passive unscripted module not op ? it must be like tracking comp. consume cap and use scripts. to chose something one , not both. Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn
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Crania
Aplac Org.
6
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes omni tracking link is more powerfull but, are droneboats are OP with this?
(Its a different weapon system.) |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
349
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Drones need all the love they can get tbh in terms of damage application in most cases the only time this module is OP is when its used in conjunction to ships that already have (or had) over the top bonuses to the respective stats and they've already toned the domi down a bit. |
Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rail mega vs domi both with 3 x TC(unscripted)/omnidirection tracking link and 3 x damage mods
Garde II Tracking - 0.08606 Optimal - 71719m
425mm Rail II Tracking - 0.02451 Optimal - 42986m Falloff - 42335m |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
349
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
I've got a feeling you can't directly compare drone tracking numbers to turret tracking numbers.
EDIT: Might not be true with sentries not sure. |
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Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rroff wrote:I've got a feeling you can't directly compare drone tracking numbers to turret tracking numbers.
EDIT: Might not be true with sentries not sure.
Why not there basically 5 launchable turrets |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
349
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atleast with drones and fighters they don't apply damage anything like the equivalent turrets i.e. fighters have same sort of tracking and weapon sig as medium blasters but aren't even close to the same applied damage, heavies have better tracking and same weapon sig as medium blasters and likewise (a lot of this is due to their own motion though) not sure regarding sentries though - never really tested it to see either.
Even if sentries were OP with omni links nerfing them would hit the other drones pretty hard so it would have to be sentries that got tweaked really - most of the problems IMO is due to ships with drone optimal and tracking bonuses though. |
Lyra Gerie
Bareback Pornstars Carthage Empires
4
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Talvenan wrote:Rail mega vs domi both with 3 x TC(unscripted)/omnidirection tracking link and 3 x damage mods
Garde II Tracking - 0.08606 Optimal - 71719m
425mm Rail II Tracking - 0.02451 Optimal - 42986m Falloff - 42335m
You can't cherry pick stats. Show an entire fit and compare everything, then try and figure out 2 or 3 battle situations and how they would fair. You didn't even mention ammo on the rail fit and you didnt mention DPS either. Or the fact that the mega could if it wanted field 3 additional sentry drones of its own.
Also that it can move without worry of losing it's weapon system. Also if the domi moves it can't switch its drones which are its main source of damage making it less flexible if the ship needs to move.
Still, not quite sure why you would mention they have 3x damage mods and not mention their dps. |
Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 00:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
i edited my post
and why would i need to link an entire fit when all i need to compare are those modules |
Lair Osen
Unlawful Unit Initiative Mercenaries
67
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well with moving drones you have to consider what all that flying around does to their tracking, and with sentries you have to deal with the fact that you can't do any maneuvers to reduce the effects of enemy movement. |
Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lair Osen wrote:Well with moving drones you have to consider what all that flying around does to their tracking, and with sentries you have to deal with the fact that you can't do any maneuvers to reduce the effects of enemy movement.
for heavys you would script it with a tracking speed
when using sentry drones you could also change it to tracking and use a longer range drone like a rail mega would use longer range ammo and tracking scripts, but with the omnidirectional it gets both range and tracking. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3524
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Talvenan wrote:all with 3 x TC(unscripted)/omnidirection tracking link and 3 x damage mods
Dominix - Garde II Tracking - 0.08606 Optimal - 71719m DPS - 751
Megathron - 425mm Rail II (CN Antimatter) Tracking - 0.02451 Optimal - 42986m Falloff - 42335m DPS - 710
Apocalypse - Mega Pulse Laser II ( Navy Multi) Tracking - 0.0816 Optimal - 24627 Fall Off - 1411 DPS - 733 Okay... now...
try making some fits that are not all shield-gank lol-fits.
No proper Apoc, Mega, or Domi is going to fit 3 Tracking Enhancers (or Omni links) and 3 damage mods at the same time unless they are shooting a POS. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
obviously not but this is just to compare the stats and bonuses they give |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3526
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Talvenan wrote:obviously not but this is just to compare the stats and bonuses they give Which doesn't really mean anything as context and proper fitting is actually important. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
what difference would linking fits do the stats show that even if you fit 1 of each its still gonna give the drone boats more tracking and range |
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Lyra Gerie
Bareback Pornstars Carthage Empires
4
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Talvenan wrote:i edited my post
and why would i need to link an entire fit when all i need to compare are those modules
The edit is better (though you might want to use scorch on those pulse lasers) but the reason for an entire fit is because no ship is just that module. That module presents a purposeful part of the ship but it is the ship as a whole that is fighting not just one module type.
From what you've showed the mega has more DPS and greater range dictation then the sentry fit domi unless it's also using long range guns in which case the mega still has better range dictation as it can fight from 80-180km+ easily within 5 seconds. It can't lose it's damage during combat unless it's entirely destroyed either.
The domi itself needs to make a choice. With no main weapon system to fit in its high slots it has a lot of options. Most important of which is whether to keep it's flexibility with drones by sticking close enough to sentries to scoop them and redeploy or to abandon them and utilize a secondary (ewar, long/short range guns, nos/neuts) weapon system against the enemy. These are things the mega can not do and where the truth strength and potential weakness of the dominix lies.
Besides couldn't a blaster fit MJD mega be just as much if not more of a threat on grid then a sentry domi?
Just examining SOME of the possiblities of the domi vs other ships of its class show more then enough why the current ODTL is not OP for drone boats, especially if it is only seeing heavy use on said drone boats in the first place. |
Talvenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
From what i can see the only big difference between sentrys and other weapon systems is that they cannot move.
Both a mega and domi can be fit to hit 180km and the domi would still do it better because it gets both bonuses, only 1 of the ships even needs to target 180km and all drones controlled by 1 person.
A domi can fit 3 seperat sets of 5 sentrys in its drone bay so it isnt that limited to dictate range.
Another option would be to remove the dual bonus off ships like the domi to range and tracking and give it only 1 like other BS's
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Crania
Aplac Org.
6
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Still looking around for overpowerd omnitracking link fits. Sentry drones have similarities to turrets yes, but still not the same.
They are mobile as ..... nvm. They stay cold if you try to overheat them. They are indestructable.
Oh they dont need ammo (for some people they are ammo).
And i still see most players prefer turrets....
So the passive omni tracking link is one of the last reason to use a sentry droneboat? |
Lyra Gerie
Bareback Pornstars Carthage Empires
4
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Talvenan wrote:From what i can see the only big difference between sentrys and other weapon systems is that they cannot move.
You might have an argument if this detail wasn't one of the single largest things to account for in any fight. Further how can it dictate range with 3 sets of sentries. Long, Longer and sniper range? They're still boned the second a frig gets within 30km of them. Even in large fleet fights it would just take one proper warp in, a couple of smartbombs or a single bombing run to take out a fleets worth of sentries.
Sentries are NOT over powered with or without ODTL. You can't change their ammo to change ranges you have to change sentries which requires you to stay close. You can't overheat them for extra range/damage/ROF You can't boost their power unless you make them your main weapon system thus nerfing other weapons you could fit
For most other ships drones are extra damage and flexibility but the for the domi it IS it's damage. Take those away and it's hardly a match for other ships of it's class except as a brawler which makes it predictable. Besides this is one of the only ships to fit the drone sniper role, what else would/could you use?
Show an example of a fit and a scenario or two in which it is overpowered. Then show that this fit/scenario is a common thing in New Eden, THEN tell us it's OP. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
294
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Posted - 2013.10.27 02:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Talvenan wrote:From what i can see the only big difference between sentrys and other weapon systems is that they cannot move.
Both a mega and domi can be fit to hit 180km and the domi would still do it better because it gets both bonuses, only 1 of the ships even needs to target 180km and all drones controlled by 1 person.
A domi can fit 3 seperat sets of 5 sentrys in its drone bay so it isnt that limited to dictate range.
Another option would be to remove the dual bonus off ships like the domi to range and tracking and give it only 1 like other BS's
Because being able to fight aligned without risking losing your weapons is such a minor advantage that every other stat has to be same
Drone assist is broken, there isn't a drone pilot who will disagree with you on that. Everything else is fine.
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Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2013.10.27 03:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Posting in Talvenan's stealth nerf drone boats thread. |
zbaaca
POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide.
56
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Posted - 2013.10.27 03:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lyra Gerie wrote: Show an example of a fit and a scenario or two in which it is overpowered. Then show that this fit/scenario is a common thing in New Eden, THEN tell us it's OP.
drop sentrys ~70km from gate jump 100km away. assist to inter or something. align . btw full immune to ewar while assisted. Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn
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Lyra Gerie
Bareback Pornstars Carthage Empires
4
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Posted - 2013.10.27 07:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
zbaaca wrote:Lyra Gerie wrote: Show an example of a fit and a scenario or two in which it is overpowered. Then show that this fit/scenario is a common thing in New Eden, THEN tell us it's OP.
drop sentrys ~70km from gate jump 100km away. assist to inter or something. align . btw full immune to ewar while assisted.
Don't engage and just jump back? |
Stjaerna Ramundson
52
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Posted - 2013.10.28 01:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't get the part for "op" for the modul .. think this is only a trolling thread cO 1. Eigenen Beitrag mit sachliche Argumentationen, Problemschilderung, Erkl+ñrung, L+¦sungsans+ñtzen formulieren. 2. Beitrag enth+ñlt eine eigene Meinung im Fazit zum Thema. 3. Negative +äu+ƒerungen, Drohungen usw. gegen++ber Nutzern haben in der Meinung nichts zu suchen. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
289
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Posted - 2013.10.28 01:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
An additional note on range of sentry drones...
No matter how much lock range you have, or how much range the Drone itself has, it still won't engage anything outside your drone control range, and the drone itself has to also be within that range.
If you want to engage anything with a Sentry at better than 60k, you need to start filling highs with Drone Link Augmenters. You could technically fly out 59.9km, target something directly on the other side of you and have them shoot it from 120, but that's a lot of maneuvering in ship that wins no prizes on speed.
The only exception to this that I know if is if you move out of range while they are already engaged on a target they will keep fighting until it's destroyed, and then go Idle if nothing else is within your control range. |
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