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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
MEZZA Creire-Geng
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
16
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
this company is becoming a joke flying CCP fleets where powerbloc regularly roam to drop rare items, gifting somer blink with ships, the 4.98 amazon thing not to mention the amazon offer from before that was only available for the US customers. |
Alt Two
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Carrey Winter wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Don't be daft, everyone can buy from amazon.com as long as you have a credit card. It's totally possible for non-US residents to buy on amazon.com. To buy digital items on amazon.com you need a US postal address. Nowhere does it say it has to be a valid address though ;) The above also applies to amazon.de, which had the same 6 plex deal. |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:"primary purpose". This is the bit I disagree with above. How do you know what blinks primary purpose is? That's up to them.
By allowing you to participate in Blink entirely with in-game ISK and never making GTC purchases anything but optional, Blink has the freedom to argue that RMT is not their primary purpose. No one actually cares what Blink's TRUE motive is; it's irrelevant. What matters is, can Blink make an argument that they are not RMT/TOS-violating? Yes, they can, because anyone can play Blink with in-game ISK and buying GTC's is optional. Unless the OP's Nyx lottery replicates this aspect, they are not actually doing anything useful in trying to point out a double-standard. |
Prince Kobol
1058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Carrey Winter wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Don't be daft, everyone can buy from amazon.com as long as you have a credit card. It's totally possible for non-US residents to buy on amazon.com.
Only on certain items.
I have tried to purchase plex before on amazon.com before and it would not let me as I was not a US Resident.
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David Kir
Statement of Intent
301
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer?
wait wait goon pets have voices? |
Prince Kobol
1058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Alt Two wrote:Carrey Winter wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:I spoke with amazon.ca and they informed me that .com, .ca, and .uk etc. are different entities. When CCP did the 6-PLEX sale, they consulted exclusively with amazon.com, deliberately, or else incompetently, leaving out the rest of the world.
Don't be daft, everyone can buy from amazon.com as long as you have a credit card. It's totally possible for non-US residents to buy on amazon.com. To buy digital items on amazon.com you need a US postal address. Nowhere does it say it has to be a valid address though ;) The above also applies to amazon.de, which had the same 6 plex deal.
Ohh just noticed this post.. will have to try that sometime :) |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1437
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:"primary purpose". This is the bit I disagree with above. How do you know what blinks primary purpose is? That's up to them. By allowing you to participate in Blink entirely with in-game ISK and never making GTC purchases anything but optional, Blink has the freedom to argue that RMT is not their primary purpose. No one actually cares what Blink's TRUE motive is; it's irrelevant. What matters is, can Blink make an argument that they are not RMT/TOS-violating? Yes, they can, because anyone can play Blink with in-game ISK and buying GTC's is optional. Unless the OP's Nyx lottery replicates this aspect, they are not actually doing anything useful in trying to point out a double standard. But Carrey could easily claim that his primary purpose is the distribution of a Nyx to the community. If you're free to give any reason you want, then everyone could say whatever they want to. The "primary purpose" is entirely beside the point. The effect is that ISK gets turned into cash, in both circumstances. I would then further argue that Somer run their account for distribution and collection of the goods on their site. Being that their site is a business, that again, against the EULA as accounts may only be for personal use. And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
211
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
To be honest, after reading several articals by other eve players, i stopped careing about the whole somer this somer that, threads,
It's sortta depressing to read all these threads about players whineing over who gets what and who gets nothing, its like being in kindergarden all over again.
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1437
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer? wait wait goon pets have voices? Oh so people still call coalition members pets? I thought that was last years fad. And if you haven't noticed I'm pretty vocal until now, you clearly don't read the forums enough. Go back under your bridge until you've got something relevant to add to the discussion. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
263
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 15:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
If they were to do something about it (they should) then it would mean they were wrong all along. So Somer will continue to be a special snowflake that gets handled differently than any other ingame organization. |
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Prince Kobol
1058
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
destiny2 wrote:To be honest, after reading several articals by other eve players, i stopped careing about the whole somer this somer that, threads,
It's sortta depressing to read all these threads about players whineing over who gets what and who gets nothing, its like being in kindergarden all over again.
You see, I kind of said something similar in that people should stop moaning, get off their backsides if it upsets them so much and join them as it is very easy to do.
Now some people have started which is great but CCP are saying they are breaking the TOS.
The whole tickets for a Nyx Lottery if you use the referral is a good idea, but why does it break the TOS and Somer doesn't?
There are also a couple of people doing similar things yet so far it appears they are okay.
The problem is that it is now looking like favouritism, i.e its fine for them but not for you.
I have no issues what anybody does so long as it is open to all players.
Just citing the TOS is a cop out.
I would like to see a proper explanation and how that ties into the TOS and why other people doing similar things do not for foul of the TOS.
If anything it will make things much more clear for others if they choose to do something similar. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
"Anyone can buy from amazon.com just provide a (fake) US address"
I am not commonly in the habit of perpetrating fraud for a discount on ingame currency. Guess that's my own silly fault, then :roll eyes: Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different?
Yes... this is, in fact, the CRITICAL difference. If you can't participate entirely via in-game means, it's not a replication of what Blink is doing. Do I agree that it's little more than a technicality? Sure, maybe. But space-lawerying is ALL ABOUT technicalities. To copy exactly what Blink is doing, the OP's Nyx lottery MUST allow for pure in-game participation in the lottery, which means awarding tickets for ISK or some other purely legal in-game reward/mechanism (but ISK is the simplest and easiest choice). Only then would any CCP response, whatever it is, be arguably applicable to Blink as well.
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Prince Kobol
1059
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different? Yes... this is, in fact, the CRITICAL difference. If you can't participate entirely via in-game means, it's not a replication of what Blink is doing. Do I agree that it's little more than a technicality? Sure, maybe. But space-lawerying is ALL ABOUT technicalities. To copy exactly what Blink is doing, the OP's Nyx lottery MUST allow for pure in-game participation in the lottery, which means awarding tickets for ISK or some other purely legal in-game reward/mechanism (but ISK is the simplest and easiest choice). Only then would any CCP response, whatever it is, be arguably applicable to Blink as well.
Whilst that maybe the reason, we are still just guessing.
This si why CCP need to stop just copying and pasting the TOS and EULA and actually explain with words why they have decided that one has broken the TOS and another hasn't. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1440
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:"Anyone can buy from amazon.com just provide a (fake) US address"
I am not commonly in the habit of perpetrating fraud for a discount on ingame currency. Guess that's my own silly fault, then :roll eyes: You don;t need to provide a fake address. There are sites that can provide you with correspondence addresses. You can also provide the address of anyone you know from the US.
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And had Carrey said you could buy tickets at say 1.2b/ticket (the same as a GTC would get you in isk) would things really be any different? Yes... this is, in fact, the CRITICAL difference. If you can't participate entirely via in-game means, it's not a replication of what Blink is doing. Do I agree that it's little more than a technicality? Sure, maybe. But space-lawerying is ALL ABOUT technicalities. To copy exactly what Blink is doing, the OP's Nyx lottery MUST allow for pure in-game participation in the lottery, which means awarding tickets for ISK or some other purely legal in-game reward/mechanism (but ISK is the simplest and easiest choice). Only then would any CCP response, whatever it is, be arguably applicable to Blink as well. Bull, the thread was not closed because it was only offering an out of game method, it was closed because it was converting ISK to cash, exactly the same thing Somer does every single day.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
550
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP > DAMN YOU GENIE GET BACK IN THE BOTTLE!!!! |
Lord Ryan
True Xero True Zombies
864
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:Honestly it seems as if CCP has lost it's internal structure or culture. There do not seem to be many limits or guidelines placed on what is proper and what is not. One GM/dev will say one thing is allowed while the other will go around and contradict it. CCP as a company seems to lack the structure it needs to be what it once was. Remember right after they reconstructed a few years ago and fired off so many plebeians that we got some AMAZING and FULL expansions? They were working with LESS and still got amazing stuff done. They only recently started hiring again at CCP, and it already appears they need another purge and restructuring.
You mean what gets one person banned, get another a golden ship?
Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
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Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Bull, the thread was not closed because it was only offering an out of game method, it was closed because it was converting ISK to cash, exactly the same thing Somer does every single day.
Can you prove that? If CCP bothers to clarify at all, what happens when their clarification is "Closed for TOS violation because there was no in-game method of participating in the lottery"?
Whatever you BELIEVE the reason it was closed is irrelevant; until someone replicates Blink PRECISELY (and a purely in-game method of participation is a pretty huge part of that), there is absolutely no "scientific" value in these attempts to call out the double standard. |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP has no credibility at all and is just trolling the entire customer base with this nonsense.
Given CCP's past history of gifting favorite in game groups, this is nothing more than them coming out about it in the open. It is not like people have not known for a fact that FOR YEARS CCP has financially benefited and partnered with RMT sellers across the globe.
Hey, CCP "I" see you and have for the years since I reported that site that was selling EVERYTHING from the in game market for RL money and you did NOTHING to stop them.
I get it, why stop them when "them" is actually YOU.
Well played CCP...well played.
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1448
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Bull, the thread was not closed because it was only offering an out of game method, it was closed because it was converting ISK to cash, exactly the same thing Somer does every single day. Can you prove that? If CCP bothers to clarify at all, what happens when their clarification is "Closed for TOS violation because there was no in-game method of participating in the lottery"? Whatever you BELIEVE the reason it was closed is irrelevant; until someone replicates Blink PRECISELY (and a purely in-game method of participation is a pretty huge part of that), there is absolutely no "scientific" value in these attempts to call out the double standard. If that happens, I start up a website offering in game methods as well as an out of game method through affiliation, and am happily able to convert isk to cash with full permission of CCP. If they really want to come back and clarify that the lack of an in-game payment method was the only reason they closed it, that's totally fine.
But lets face it, they aren't going to come back and open the floodgates to legal RMT are they? You can nitpick every detail of all of the threads being opened to copy Somer which get closed "for RMTing", but at the end of the day we all know why they are closing it. We don't even disagree with why they are closing it (You realise we don;t actually want RMT legalised right?). We just want them to force Somer to play by the same rules and they refuse to engage us in any form of dialog, or give us any announcements on the subject. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
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March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
834
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
posting in thread where people complain about company works "inside CCP system" because no one really understands what does it mean |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You can nitpick every detail of all of the threads being opened to copy Somer which get closed "for RMTing", but at the end of the day we all know why they are closing it. We don't even disagree with why they are closing it (You realise we don;t actually want RMT legalised right?). We just want them to force Somer to play by the same rules and they refuse to engage us in any form of dialog, or give us any announcements on the subject.
Edited my post you were quoting to clarify, but yes, we do need to nitpick every post until someone actually gets the technicalities correct. ONLY THEN will CCP be backed into a corner of being forced to admit that either 1) the method Blink uses for RMT is acceptable under the TOS or 2) that there is a double-standard and Blink is allowed to do it where others are not. If the goal is to force CCP into commenting on this issue, nitpicking the details is the only thing relevant to putting them in a position where they can no longer squirm their way out of admitting one or the other.
The "we all know why" argument is useless and won't accomplish anything but let CCP laugh at these threads and cause everyone else on GD to wonder where your tinfoil hat is. |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Seems like the falcon jams hit really hard. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1448
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You can nitpick every detail of all of the threads being opened to copy Somer which get closed "for RMTing", but at the end of the day we all know why they are closing it. We don't even disagree with why they are closing it (You realise we don;t actually want RMT legalised right?). We just want them to force Somer to play by the same rules and they refuse to engage us in any form of dialog, or give us any announcements on the subject. Edited my post you were quoting to clarify, but yes, we do need to nitpick every post until someone actually gets the technicalities correct. ONLY THEN will CCP be backed into a corner of being forced to admit that either 1) the method Blink uses for RMT is acceptable under the TOS or 2) that there is a double-standard and Blink is allowed to do it where others are not. If the goal is to force CCP into commenting on this issue, nitpicking the details is the only thing relevant to putting them in a position where they can no longer squirm their way out of admitting one or the other. The "we all know why" argument is useless and won't accomplish anything but let CCP laugh at these threads and cause everyone else on GD to wonder where your tinfoil hat is. But they don't need to be backed into a corner. What you are saying is they can hand wave this with "oh they offer an in game method". Well that's fine, that will still be them telling us RMT is fine as long as we have an in game method to play. The point being they can't say that without repercussions. Really. Think about what they would be allowing if they stated that the reason Somer is allowed is because it's an in game lottery too. For starters, evalopolous, BIG, eohpoker, myevelotto, etc. All would be able to immediately start the same level of RMT. I'm a programmer. I could get a working lottery site up in under a day with the ability to accept in game or injected currency. And I'm certainly not the only one that could. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:David Kir wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Hi CCP Recently a lot of people have been pointing out what is blatant RMTing, requesting Somer be forced to stop their RMT trade. Until recently you have not made your stance clear on whether this is RMT, but now CCP Falcon has thankfully cleared this all up. If you see the post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784And you see why it was closed (for RMT) then if you read the OP, and compare it to here: http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc you will see that this was closed for exactly the same thing that Somer is doing. That is, giving out tickets to in game items for purchasing GTC through a set authorised reseller. So what is the ETA for the shutdown of Somer? wait wait goon pets have voices? Oh so people still call coalition members pets? I thought that was last years fad. And if you haven't noticed I'm pretty vocal until now, you clearly don't read the forums enough. Go back under your bridge until you've got something relevant to add to the discussion.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784
"If you want to become an authorized ETC reseller, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected].
If you want to sponsor a tournament with real life money or prizes, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected] first, otherwise please refrain from such sponsorship."
So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen? |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But they don't need to be backed into a corner. What you are saying is they can hand wave this with "oh they offer an in game method". Well that's fine, that will still be them telling us RMT is fine as long as we have an in game method to play. The point being they can't say that without repercussions. Really. Think about what they would be allowing if they stated that the reason Somer is allowed is because it's an in game lottery too. For starters, evalopolous, BIG, eohpoker, myevelotto, etc. All would be able to immediately start the same level of RMT. I'm a programmer. I could get a working lottery site up in under a day with the ability to accept in game or injected currency. And I'm certainly not the only one that could.
In none of my previous posts was I trying to argue whether they do or don't need to be backed into a corner. I'm informing the people that ARE trying to back them into a corner (with their lottery knock-off schemes designed for exactly that purpose) that they are doing a poor job of it.
That said, my personal opinion is that they DO need to be backed into a corner because the issue has reached the level of volatility where they simply cannot keep pretending it isn't something the community is going to force. But I'm also perfectly fine with the answer being the second option -- there is a double standard, Blink is allowed to do it, no one else is, deal with it. I have no problem with that being the final word on it, honestly. But I do think there needs to BE a final word. |
Na Und
Galactronics
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Yeah I know, but if CCP don't have the decency to give us an answer then I don't see why I should stop re-posting threads that have already been posted. At the end of the day I'm going to continue until either they ban me, or they decide that perhaps addressing the concerns of their community is a good idea. Honestly, it's been going on long enough that I don't really care which anymore. I've got GTA V to play, and by the end of the year 2 shiny new consoles. I'm certainly not going to sit in silence while they discriminate against the rest of the community however.
You could've shortened your post simply by typing, "waah." |
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
David Kir wrote:So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen?
Except as far as I'm aware, that isn't true. Markee Dragon is an authorized ETC reseller and Blink has a private agreement with Markee Dragon for referral links. There is no agreement between Blink and CCP with regard to ETC sales at all; certainly no more than anyone else, and no different than the Nyx lottery's private affiliate link agreement with Shattered Crystal (also an authorized ETC reseller).
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Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
176
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
David Kir wrote:
So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP.
How's that, second rate goonion citizen?
Actually Somer isn't on that list, if you bother to look, so "that" is pretty bad, and you're wrong.
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1448
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
David Kir wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792784#post3792784 "If you want to become an authorized ETC reseller, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected]. If you want to sponsor a tournament with real life money or prizes, please contact the CCP Customer Support via [email protected] first, otherwise please refrain from such sponsorship." So there you go, Somer is an authorized ETC reseller andthere's a private agreement between them and CCP. How's that, second rate goonion citizen? lol, you are truly an epic genius. Somer are NOT an ETC reseller. Markee Dragon is an ETC reseller, of which Somer is an affiliate (so Some just links people to Markee and gets paid to do so). Now, If you read the thread that you and I have both linked, you'll read about "Shattered Crystal". They are also a registered ETC reseller. The OP of the other thread would be an affiliate of them, the same way Some is to markee.
So in short, what you posted was utter nonsense, written without taking the 60 seconds it would take to read and understand the relevant posts.
Try again. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
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