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Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
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Posted - 2013.10.29 17:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all,
I am looking to doing l4 missions in Amarr space and was wondering if the below fit would be optimal.
Open for suggestions, thanks in advance.
HIGH: 4 X TACH II DRONE AUG SALVAGER
MED: 1 XL SHIELD BOOSTER 2 RAT SPEC HARDENERS 1 INVULN 1 LMJD TC TRACKING SCRIPT SEBO TARGETTING
LOW 4 X HS II 1 DC II
RIGS OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
133
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Posted - 2013.10.29 17:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you want to snipe wouldn't you want a ship with a range bonus? I get the impression that the nightmare is usually loaded with INMF for face melting DPS up close with good tracking.
I have also heard that caps lock is cruise control for cool. |
Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
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Posted - 2013.10.29 17:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Range can occur from 20 -150 pending on crystals
Optimal range imo would be 90km and maintain that distance for optimal dps
Charges cost money, so i would rather Snipe until i need to run which btw is pretty decent time. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
134
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Posted - 2013.10.29 18:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
So you prefer to use low damage ammo then? Whatever floats you boat I guess. I am not sure what you mean by charges but cap booster charges are awfully cheap and faction crystals last for quite a while.
Personally if I was going to snipe Sansha rats I would use an MJD sentry Dominix or cruise missile CNR. |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
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Posted - 2013.10.29 19:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
woah woah woah, that wont work at all, I mean it can but it can be improved
try something like this I think it will work much better...
high slots
4 beams II and w/e floats your boat in other 2, people usually prefer to put vampires but doesnt really matter
mid slots should look something like this if you plan on doing the MJD tactic meaning you will need very little tank to handle the dps so it should look something like
2x mission specific hardeners x-large shield booster (can be a faction large shield booster since you will only be pulsing it anyways) MJD sebo 2xtracking computers
low slots
4 heat sinks and a tracking enhancer
for rigs you should use large energy discharge elutriation and other 2 can be some to help you with cap stability but if you have good cap skills you really shouldn't be encountering any cap problems...
As mentioned you really don't need that much tank as in a sniping MJD tactic fitted ship so this should be just fine. Now I have personally flown NM a lot but haven't used the MJD tactic because even with beams it pulls out 1k dps so anything really falls down so fast in short range that tank never did become a liability. However there I used x-large anci shield booster with faction shield boost amp and double c-type faction inv fields and never had to warp out of mission, especially not against bloods and sanshas who just melt under the heavy fire of your lazors...
Best Regards and fly safe
Eyana Starstruck |
Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
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Posted - 2013.10.29 20:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thats an awesome response thanks.
I like the jump drive fit because my Nightmare is afraid of getting dirty.
lol and the equation D/0 is impossible
nothing can be divided by ZERO :P |
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
57
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Posted - 2013.10.30 13:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Why would you ever use large beams when you can use tachyons? Some advice is terrible. |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
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Posted - 2013.10.30 15:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Mayhem wrote:Why would you ever use large beams when you can use tachyons? Some advice is terrible.
I think you are the only person that could possibly misunderstand this but to clarify what I meant was beams as in beam guns, aka long range laser guns... To which class, who would have guessed, tachyons belong... (Tachyon BEAM Laser II)
Edit
Nope I was wrong, you even got a like for that post, seems that another person didn't understand the simplicity... Or did you give it to yourself from another account? |
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
58
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Posted - 2013.10.30 15:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Eyana Starstruck wrote:Jack Mayhem wrote:Why would you ever use large beams when you can use tachyons? Some advice is terrible. I think you are the only person that could possibly misunderstand this but to clarify what I meant was beams as in beam guns, aka long range laser guns... To which class, who would have guessed, tachyons belong... (Tachyon BEAM Laser II) Edit Nope I was wrong, you even got a like for that post, seems that another person didn't understand the simplicity... Or did you give it to yourself from another account?
Don't reinvent the wheel. Tachyons are shortened as tachs, not beams. It's common eve dictionary.
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1524
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 16:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
aside from the tach sperg, there is no reason to turn the nightmare into a 'sniper' boat for lvl4s, as it can easily tank all of them. and even if you insisted on using it to snipe for some inexplicable reason, you should start with three tracking computers, not one.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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Arcosian
Arco's Advanced Industries
127
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Like the above poster said you don't want to sniper fit a nightmare for missions simply because it will melt anything before it even gets in range to really test the tank. I use this fit and have had no problems what so ever with missions.
[Nightmare, Nightmare T2 Beams mission fit] Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster EM Ward Field II EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Put some 5% hardwires in your head and with decent skills it will dish out 1057 DPS guns only and have a 850+ DPS tank for sansha/bloods. If you have cap issues you can always switch to faction tachs or drop the metastasis rig for a cap one. |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 16:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack Mayhem wrote: Don't reinvent the wheel. Tachyons are shortened as tachs, not beams. It's common eve dictionary.
OK so let me ask you this, does Tachyon Beam Laser II module belong to a group of laser turrets, subclass beam turrets? I presume the answer after short investigation will be: "yes it does"... So I shall repeat myself, I wrote beams referring to type of laser turret since there are beam laser and pulse laser turrets. One has longer range but poorer dps and tracking, the other one has shorter range but better tracking and dps... Hence my suggestion to use beams and not pulses in high slots for his MJD usage tactic with his NM... It was never the intent to quote the actual module and people with proper logic and thinking system should have understood this.
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Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
seriously this forum bugs sometimes |
Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thanks for the responses,
I have just finally gotten into a NM from my previous l4 ship the Abaddon. So it feels really different in terms of killing things quickly with the NM. Where the Abby takes her sweet time, and can tank forever at the expense of lower damage
Abbadon
8 MPII
4 Cap rechargers
3 CCC's
2 LAR II 1 E Adapt Harden 2 Rat Spec Hardeners 1 Cap relay 1 DCII
Now the NM is polar opposite to that as I am used to armour tanking and doing lower damage,
but i will try out Arcosian fit as it seems like it can tank and output dps well
Thanks for the posts. |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Locutus Mind wrote:Thanks for the responses,
I have just finally gotten into a NM from my previous l4 ship the Abaddon. So it feels really different in terms of killing things quickly with the NM. Where the Abby takes her sweet time, and can tank forever at the expense of lower damage
Abbadon
8 MPII
4 Cap rechargers
3 CCC's
2 LAR II 1 E Adapt Harden 2 Rat Spec Hardeners 1 Cap relay 1 DCII
Now the NM is polar opposite to that as I am used to armour tanking and doing lower damage,
but i will try out Arcosian fit as it seems like it can tank and output dps well
Thanks for the posts.
Yes. The differences of NM and abaddon are quite big. To start of one is a shield and the other one is an armor tank. The reason why it took your sweet time to kill stuff with your abbadon was cause it was built as a brick, it could tank forever but at the expense of your dps. That fit is ok for starting pilots that are still learning the ropes of mission running, spawn triggers and what targets to take out first and so on... But later on people change their fit for more dps to shorten time they spend in missions cause they learn all the already mentioned things and know they are overtanked. An abbadon is quite comfortable tanking with 3 mission specific hardeners, 1 large armor rep and 3 heat sinks. Mid slots usually have 1-2 tracking computers and in rigs you have discharge elutration rig cause they save you so much cap especially on a ship that uses 8 laser turrets. |
Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
lol nice,
Im thinking of using that fir and changinthe LAR II to a dead space mod.
Just for giggles. |
Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
How about a beam abby :P
im kidding now. |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well it is totally possible but you need to fit a single reactor control unit and large ancillary current router but it is quite cap starving so I would fit a cap booster just in case... |
Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
im alergic to scram frigs... |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
That's what drones are for... :D |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
229
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Okay I'm going to put my 2 cents and you can take it for what it's worth.
Using a Nightmare for a sniper boat is a bad idea because it has no range bonus... Ships used for sniping generally have a range bonus. Yes you can use long range crystals but this means very poor DPS.... I don't know about you but if I'm going to spend a billion plus for a ship it shouldn't suck.
Consider the Paladin after Rubicon. Yes it's not for 20 days but that's not forever. The Paladin will fit 4 tachs, have a hell of a tank, have a MJD bonus, and a range bonus! |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
229
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Locutus Mind wrote:Thanks for the responses,
I have just finally gotten into a NM from my previous l4 ship the Abaddon. So it feels really different in terms of killing things quickly with the NM. Where the Abby takes her sweet time, and can tank forever at the expense of lower damage
Abbadon
8 MPII
4 Cap rechargers
3 CCC's
2 LAR II 1 E Adapt Harden 2 Rat Spec Hardeners 1 Cap relay 1 DCII
Now the NM is polar opposite to that as I am used to armour tanking and doing lower damage,
but i will try out Arcosian fit as it seems like it can tank and output dps well
Thanks for the posts.
Your Abaddon takes her sweet time because you don't have any heat sinks in the lows or tracking computers in the mids. Without the heat sinks you lose about 300 DPS and about 15 km less optimal range without scripted tracking computers.
The nano pump helps the one LAR work better and if you want more tank go for a Ammatar Navy LAR. They're about 110 mil in Jita but it's worth it.
730 gun DPS at 58 km optimal range with Scorch
[Abaddon, Missions] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Large Armor Repairer II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Cap Recharger II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Okay I'm going to put my 2 cents and you can take it for what it's worth.
Using a Nightmare for a sniper boat is a bad idea because it has no range bonus... Ships used for sniping generally have a range bonus. Yes you can use long range crystals but this means very poor DPS.... I don't know about you but if I'm going to spend a billion plus for a ship it shouldn't suck.
Consider the Paladin after Rubicon. Yes it's not for 20 days but that's not forever. The Paladin will fit 4 tachs, have a hell of a tank, have a MJD bonus, and a range bonus!
Hm so are you really saying that all the pilots commanding NM's and fc's wanting NM's for sniper roles got it wrong and that there are better ships that they havent thought of?
A sniping NM has 718 gun dps at 100km range, I wouldnt call that bad at all...
Of course paladin will be a better choice when Rubicon comes but it also means he needs to probably spend like 40 days on training time to be able to fly one, rarely people have battleship skill at level 5 cause it takes 30d+ to get. |
Locutus Mind
Happy Fun times corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
lol dumb question is it possible for a NM to crash a frig under 10k?
Probably would need great tracking, and luck |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
357
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Mayhem wrote:Eyana Starstruck wrote:Jack Mayhem wrote:Why would you ever use large beams when you can use tachyons? Some advice is terrible. I think you are the only person that could possibly misunderstand this but to clarify what I meant was beams as in beam guns, aka long range laser guns... To which class, who would have guessed, tachyons belong... (Tachyon BEAM Laser II) Edit Nope I was wrong, you even got a like for that post, seems that another person didn't understand the simplicity... Or did you give it to yourself from another account? Don't reinvent the wheel. Tachyons are shortened as tachs, not beams. It's common eve dictionary.
Doesn't change the fact that tachs are beam lasers. |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Locutus Mind wrote:lol dumb question is it possible for a NM to crash a frig under 10k?
Probably would need great tracking, and luck
..... What a pulse mare :S
Hardly anything bs gun size can crash a frig under 10km, maybe a double web vindicator with a close to 0 transversal... :D |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
229
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eyana Starstruck wrote:IIshira wrote:Okay I'm going to put my 2 cents and you can take it for what it's worth.
Using a Nightmare for a sniper boat is a bad idea because it has no range bonus... Ships used for sniping generally have a range bonus. Yes you can use long range crystals but this means very poor DPS.... I don't know about you but if I'm going to spend a billion plus for a ship it shouldn't suck.
Consider the Paladin after Rubicon. Yes it's not for 20 days but that's not forever. The Paladin will fit 4 tachs, have a hell of a tank, have a MJD bonus, and a range bonus! Hm so are you really saying that all the pilots commanding NM's and fc's wanting NM's for sniper roles got it wrong and that there are better ships that they havent thought of? A sniping NM has 718 gun dps at 100km range, I wouldnt call that bad at all... Of course paladin will be a better choice when Rubicon comes but it also means he needs to probably spend like 40 days on training time to be able to fly one, rarely people have battleship skill at level 5 cause it takes 30d+ to get.
Are we talking about PVP or missions? PVP has many more considerations than just max DPS so just because it's a fleet doctrine doesn't mean it's good for missions.
A Nightmare that does 718 gun dps at 100km... Please post the fit.
It takes 26-34 days for BS 4-5 depending on your attributes. If you're flying a Nightmare I would hope you would have it at 5 or working to it since it gives you a 7.5% bonus to tracking. It's well worth it IMO if you want to max your mission completion times and Rubicon is 20 days away so |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 00:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sorry but why would you max out tracking over damage for a sniping fit?
A standard faction heat sinked NM with a maxed out pilot with 5% implants does that much dps at 100km range with imp navy standard ammo...
Uhm you forget the time to get marauder skill up as well to level 5 to get the same damage as NM at bs 5... |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
229
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 03:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Eyana Starstruck wrote:Sorry but why would you max out tracking over damage for a sniping fit?
A standard faction heat sinked NM with a maxed out pilot with 5% implants does that much dps at 100km range with imp navy standard ammo...
Uhm you forget the time to get marauder skill up as well to level 5 to get the same damage as NM at bs 5...
I wasn't referring to maxing out tracking. You said "Hm so are you really saying that all the pilots commanding NM's...." and I just asked if you were referring to doctrine PVP fleets or mission ships because what could work awesome for a PVP battle might not in a mission.
Fair enough with two +5 implants it does 718 DPS at 96 km optimal . I totally forgot about implants in EFT but I do have them in my Amarr clone. Also fair enough with the Marauder skill to 5 for max damage. It's worth it for the damage and repair amount bonus IMO.
I went on the test server to check out the Paladin. I'm getting 891 DPS at 96 km with Xray and 980 DPS at 80 km with Gamma.
I can't test the Bastion module for almost five days but if it takes that 80 km to 96 km that means the Paladin will do 262 DPS more than the Nightmare at this range. Even without Bastion it does 173 DPS more. I didn't have a 4th faction heat sink on the test server so I used three faction and one T2. I'm guessing it's probably only a few DPS less due to stacking penalties.
The Paladin may require a bit more time invested but the bottom line is it will do more DPS at range. The Nightmare may still beat it close in due to the tracking bonus. An additional 173-262 DPS might not sound like much but it could mean having to fire an extra volley at targets.
Also it has a 70% reduction to MJD reactivation delay.
Don't get me wrong I love the Nightmare but with the Rubicon Marauder buffs the Paladin will be the better choice for range.
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Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
22
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Posted - 2013.10.31 09:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
I agree that marauders will be better when using MJD sniping tactic with bastion mode on. I am just saying that until then he might as well have fun with NM, people can always trade it back in or use it for incursions or something when and if they want to switch to a marauder... |
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