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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2777
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 01:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Most well-informed EvE players are familiar with the MJD-Cloak to warp trick. It is used to avoid being tackled by a hostile as you enter a system. The crux of the trick is you enter system, align to your warp destination, cloak (must be t2 cloak), and activate the MWD. At the end of the MWD cycle, you decloak and spam warp. When performed properly, it is very difficult to catch you, as you can cloak before they target you, and you enter warp before they can target you.
With the release of MJD's, this trick got a new module to help with nullsec travel. Employing a similar tactic as above, the MJD provided two major benefits over the MWD.
1.) You never had to decloak. The MJD would auto-decloak you at the end of its cycle, shoot you forward 100 km's while maintaining alignment, and allow you then instantly warp to your destination. Decloaking too early or too late is one of the most common ways to lose your ship when attempting the MWD-cloak trick, so not having to worry about this timing is a pretty major boon.
2.) The MJD was bubble proof. Bubbles don't prevent the MJD from shooting your ship forward 100 km's, thereby allowing you to zoom out of hictor and dictor bubbles, which are generally responsible for the death of most MWD-cloak travel in nullsec.
What is the stealth change? MJD's now decloak you when activated, and prevent you from re-cloaking. Since I've personally recommended the MJD-cloak trick to nullsec battleship pilots, I figured its appropriate to announce this technique no longer works.
That is all. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1599
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 01:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
I assume this was a part of the small back end fixes and optimizations that provide no change in gameplay? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1352
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 02:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hmm, wow. I know some people who do this, I'll have to let them to know to look into it.
Thanks for the public service announcement. Back end fixes my ass. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
649
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 02:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well we can't allow the battleship to become a Solopwnmobile.... plus this ties in nicely with the 250% lock time over a battlecruiser, the 0% extra HP over a T3, the inability to track anything without a bajillion tracking computers, the speed and agility of an Orca and the soon to be slowest warping ships in the game...
Luckily they can still equip the biggest subcap nuets in game... phew
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
548
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 02:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
BShip PvP is dying. Long live HAC PvP!!!
:) That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
KnowUsByTheDead
Volition.
355
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 03:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:BShip PvP is dying. Long live HAC PvP!!!
:)
I am with you on this one...
Hate Battleships, they blow. Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
650
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 03:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:BShip PvP is dying. Long live HAC PvP!!!
:) I am with you on this one... Hate Battleships, they blow. Yeah we all want to fly around in the spaceship equivalent of a hatchback. Battleships were and should be the V10 Viper of the spaceship world. You don't like them because CCP fekked them. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6771
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 04:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
By back-end fix, CCP apparently meant to say "All solo traveling BS pilots prepare to take it in the ***."
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
553
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 04:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
I wouldn't be surprized if MWD-cloak trick was to be screwed up as well, and I'm pretty serious on this one.
And I do feel that battleships are in huge trouble again. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
475
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 04:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:By back-end fix, CCP apparently meant to say "All solo traveling BS pilots prepare to take it in the ***."
i think I found your problem. |
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oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope Gallente Federation
228
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 05:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Well we can't allow the battleship to become a Solopwnmobile.... plus this ties in nicely with the 250% lock time over a battlecruiser, the 0% extra HP over a T3, the inability to track anything without a bajillion tracking computers, the speed and agility of an Orca and the soon to be slowest warping ships in the game... Luckily they can still equip the biggest subcap nuets in game... phew
Can i quote you on my thread? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2783
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 14:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
interesting... a small back end fix still implies someone is taking it in the ass... |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
350
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's a fix, not a nerf Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
2310
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:By back-end fix, CCP apparently meant to say "All solo traveling BS pilots prepare to take it in the ***."
Damnit, I was about to make that joke.
CCP - What happened to openness, eh? Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
631
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 16:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:It's a fix, not a nerf
Do not deny that.. but is nice to announce such changes.... it snothign but fair that peopel know what their modules do or do not. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
772
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 17:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Most well-informed EvE players are familiar with the MWD-Cloak to warp trick. It is used to avoid being tackled by a hostile as you enter a system. The crux of the trick is you enter system, align to your warp destination, cloak (must be t2 cloak), and activate the MWD. At the end of the MWD cycle, you decloak and spam warp. When performed properly, it is very difficult to catch you, as you can cloak before they target you, and you enter warp before they can target you.
With the release of MJD's, this trick got a new module to help with nullsec travel. Employing a similar tactic as above, the MJD provided two major benefits over the MWD.
1.) You never had to decloak. The MJD would auto-decloak you at the end of its cycle, shoot you forward 100 km's while maintaining alignment, and allow you then instantly warp to your destination. Decloaking too early or too late is one of the most common ways to lose your ship when attempting the MWD-cloak trick, so not having to worry about this timing is a pretty major boon.
2.) The MJD was bubble proof. Bubbles don't prevent the MJD from shooting your ship forward 100 km's, thereby allowing you to zoom out of hictor and dictor bubbles, which are generally responsible for the death of most MWD-cloak travel in nullsec.
What is the stealth change? MJD's now decloak you when activated, and prevent you from re-cloaking. Since I've personally recommended the MJD-cloak trick to nullsec battleship pilots, I figured its appropriate to announce this technique no longer works.
That is all.
So they had a broken mechanic, and you can no longer exploit it? Oh well.
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Lazy Eagle
FUITA
11
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 17:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
As long as i can still lock at 100k, make them think i have rails, and mjd to blaster range...... i would miss this more. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2788
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 18:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Most well-informed EvE players are familiar with the MWD-Cloak to warp trick. It is used to avoid being tackled by a hostile as you enter a system. The crux of the trick is you enter system, align to your warp destination, cloak (must be t2 cloak), and activate the MWD. At the end of the MWD cycle, you decloak and spam warp. When performed properly, it is very difficult to catch you, as you can cloak before they target you, and you enter warp before they can target you.
With the release of MJD's, this trick got a new module to help with nullsec travel. Employing a similar tactic as above, the MJD provided two major benefits over the MWD.
1.) You never had to decloak. The MJD would auto-decloak you at the end of its cycle, shoot you forward 100 km's while maintaining alignment, and allow you then instantly warp to your destination. Decloaking too early or too late is one of the most common ways to lose your ship when attempting the MWD-cloak trick, so not having to worry about this timing is a pretty major boon.
2.) The MJD was bubble proof. Bubbles don't prevent the MJD from shooting your ship forward 100 km's, thereby allowing you to zoom out of hictor and dictor bubbles, which are generally responsible for the death of most MWD-cloak travel in nullsec.
What is the stealth change? MJD's now decloak you when activated, and prevent you from re-cloaking. Since I've personally recommended the MJD-cloak trick to nullsec battleship pilots, I figured its appropriate to announce this technique no longer works.
That is all. So they had a broken mechanic, and you can no longer exploit it? Oh well.
I don't care if you can or cant utilize the trick or not, I just wanted to warn everyone it has changed.
I know some people that were caught with their pants down when suddenly the technique stopped working.
Also, unintended uses of modules is not necessarily a broken mechanic, as capsuleers have been doing unintended things in game ever since launch! |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
554
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 20:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:BShip PvP is dying. Long live HAC PvP!!!
:) I am with you on this one... Hate Battleships, they blow. Yeah we all want to fly around in the spaceship equivalent of a hatchback. Battleships were and should be the V10 Viper of the spaceship world. You don't like them because CCP fekked them.
You don't watch Top Gear, do you? Pretty much everything is better than the Viper at pretty much everything.
So, your comparison is accurate..... just not in the way you seem to have meant it. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Lazy Eagle
FUITA
12
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
You don't watch Top Gear, do you?
Some say he only knows two facts about ducks, and both of them are wrong. |
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1067
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 21:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
They fixed the MJD exploit? Cool. The Tears Must Flow |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3552
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 01:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
What's the big deal?
There's still going to be a Lachesis at 51KM from the gate.
My heart broke when I found out that it AND the Target Lock Breaker were only for BS. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6209
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 02:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
I know for a fact that I tested the possibility of MJD + cloak when the module was first put on Sisi (or whatever server we were using at the time). It didn't work then, activating the module would deactivate your cloak.
As far as I was concerned this never worked, but apparently people have been doing it so I guess I was wrong. EVE Online - A Rigged Game |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
61
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 04:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:What's the big deal?
There's still going to be a Lachesis at 51KM from the gate.
My heart broke when I found out that it AND the Target Lock Breaker were only for BS.
CCP1 "Hey, people are starting to notice that battleships suck."
CCP2 "What can we do to bring interest to an overnerfed class?"
CCP1 "just make a few BS exclusive toys and cite the law of diminishing returns"
CCP3 "Then why are caps so much bett.."
CCP 1&2 "SHHHH! NO ONE WAS SUPPOSED TO NOTICE" Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
949
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 05:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:By back-end fix, CCP apparently meant to say "All solo traveling BS pilots prepare to take it in the ***."
Solo traveling BS pilots should have been taking it in the ass like the fat guy in the mens bath house the whole time.
"Eve; risk averse is good for me, and I'll call you out if you try it and then cry carebear" Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
665
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 06:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
It may not have been intended but it was needed to make travelling non suicidal. If an inty cant travel 90 km before a battleship aligns and warps they suck. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
501
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 06:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:It may not have been intended but it was needed to make travelling non suicidal. Scout, scouting is the answer. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
665
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 06:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:It may not have been intended but it was needed to make travelling non suicidal. Scout, scouting is the answer. Not for a battleship unless you want to to go AFK everytime you find a system with peeps in local. A cloaked Cov Ops at gate and you're screwed with BS align time. |
Black Dranzer
361
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 07:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Frankly, I don't think Battleships should be flying around unescorted anyway.
Also, the MWD/MJD cloaking trick is pretty obviously an unintended thing which CCP just never got around to fixing, probably because they assumed it was one of those low-end bugs that doesn't impact gameplay much.
Somebody, somewhere wrote:But surely if they were ever planning to fix it, they would've done it sooner. Not only that, this has a huge impact on some people. Yes, but this is CCP we're talking about. Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1387
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 07:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
Black Dranzer wrote:Frankly, I don't think Battleships should be flying around unescorted anyway. Also, the MWD/MJD cloaking trick is pretty obviously an unintended thing which CCP just never got around to fixing, probably because they assumed it was one of those low-end bugs that doesn't impact gameplay much. Somebody, somewhere wrote:But surely if they were ever planning to fix it, they would've done it sooner. Not only that, this has a huge impact on some people. Yes, but this is CCP we're talking about.
So battleships are the new carrier, where they should not be unescorted at all times? Wow, while many people suggest this of me, I really think you should step away from the keyboard before you do any more damage.
You, Kil2, and Ravi, should form your own knitting circle where you can create game mechanics that totally trash any enjoyability left in flying large ships in Eve.
I know, why not halve the lock times on BS'?. That will really show demonstrate their proper place in Eve. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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Black Dranzer
361
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 08:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I really think you should step away from the keyboard before you do any more damage*. *Translator's note: "damage", in this context, means "posting an opinion I disagree with" Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
665
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 08:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Black Dranzer wrote:Frankly, I don't think Battleships should be flying around unescorted anyway. Also, the MWD/MJD cloaking trick is pretty obviously an unintended thing which CCP just never got around to fixing, probably because they assumed it was one of those low-end bugs that doesn't impact gameplay much. Somebody, somewhere wrote:But surely if they were ever planning to fix it, they would've done it sooner. Not only that, this has a huge impact on some people. Yes, but this is CCP we're talking about. So battleships are the new carrier, where they should not be unescorted at all times? Wow, while many people suggest this of me, I really think you should step away from the keyboard before you do any more damage. You, Kil2, and Ravi, should form your own knitting circle where you can create game mechanics that totally trash any enjoyability left in flying large ships in Eve. I know, why not halve the lock times on BS'?. That will really show demonstrate their proper place in Eve. Yeah they're so OP instead of 2.5 times the lock time of a battleship they should have 5 times. And perhaps whenever they fire their weapons they're stuck in place for 5 mins.
I agree about the escorted thing lol. Can imagine all the pilots of HACs and cruisers putting their hands up for that job.
Here's something for CCP to consider, real life carriers and now ironically defunct battleships were as fast or faster than most escort vessels. Contemporary carriers are faster than most other ships. Where you got the idea that capital ships should be slow is anyone's guess. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
303
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 09:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Here's something for CCP to consider, real life carriers and now ironically defunct battleships were as fast or faster than most escort vessels. Contemporary carriers are faster than most other ships. Where you got the idea that capital ships should be slow is anyone's guess.
No not really. American destroyers were specced for 35 knots until WW2 when 37 was a more usual speed, and only 1 class of battleship ever made 33, yet many, many cruisers were specced for 32-33 and many of those were built pre-ww2, and italian cruisers went up to and over 40.
That cruisers currently aren't faster than aircraft carriers is simply a function of them not having naval targets to intercept.
Its largely impossible a battleship faster without turning it into a battlecruiser (even the Iowas skirted that definition), because of the displacement required to float the armor. Note Nimitzes have a heavy armored deck and thus have a similar problem. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
665
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 10:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
Here's something for CCP to consider, real life carriers and now ironically defunct battleships were as fast or faster than most escort vessels. Contemporary carriers are faster than most other ships. Where you got the idea that capital ships should be slow is anyone's guess.
No not really. American destroyers were specced for 35 knots until WW2 when 37 was a more usual speed, and only 1 class of battleship ever made 33, yet many, many cruisers were specced for 32-33 and many of those were built pre-ww2, and italian cruisers went up to and over 40. That cruisers currently aren't faster than aircraft carriers is simply a function of them not having naval targets to intercept. Its largely impossible to make a battleship faster without turning it into a battlecruiser (even the Iowas skirted that definition), because of the displacement required to float the armor. Note Nimitzes have a heavy armored deck and thus have a similar problem. Actually the majority of escort vessels in ww2 were slower than battleships. The reason some battleships were slow was because they were ww1 vessels.
Large vessels are fast because they can incorporate a boubous bow which causes the water flowing along the hull to reduce friction. Smaller vessels don't have that ability due to less mass.
Most destroyers even today are only capable of around 35 knots. Many battleships in WW2 could easily hit 31 and higher. |
IceDe4d
Kath's Menagerie
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 11:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
they never fixxed it and people that belive it got fixxed never tryed it out. you still can cloack and start the mwd after you are cloacked and the whole mechanic about this is stupid maybe one day it will be fixxed after the second decade ^^ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17221
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 11:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
IceDe4d wrote:they never fixxed it and people that belive it got fixxed never tryed it out. you still can cloack and start the mwd You know the difference between MWD and MJD, right? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
196
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 12:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Hmm, wow. I know some people who do this, I'll have to let them to know to look into it.
Thanks for the public service announcement. Back end fixes my ass.
You might need to see a proctologist then. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6215
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 13:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Hmm, wow. I know some people who do this, I'll have to let them to know to look into it.
Thanks for the public service announcement. Back end fixes my ass. You might need to see a proctologist then. No he doesn't. It's fixed, you see. EVE Online - A Rigged Game |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
303
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Actually the majority of escort vessels in ww2 were slower than battleships. The reason some battleships were slow was because they were ww1 vessels.
Large vessels are fast because they can incorporate a boubous bow which causes the water flowing along the hull to reduce friction. Smaller vessels don't have that ability due to less mass.
Destroyers were the escorts. Wikipedia even organizes them into nice lists where you can tick off all the WW2 destroyers that were slower than battleships. Its a short list!
Quote:
Most destroyers even today are only capable of around 35 knots. Many battleships in WW2 could easily hit 31 and higher.
Which is faster than any capital... ever. And only 1 class could do 31 with full magazines and stores. The bismark never got anywhere near 31 when chased.
Not only that, have you ever tried to turn a Nimitz. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3552
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 18:56:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Actually the majority of escort vessels in ww2 were slower than battleships. The reason some battleships were slow was because they were ww1 vessels.
Large vessels are fast because they can incorporate a boubous bow which causes the water flowing along the hull to reduce friction. Smaller vessels don't have that ability due to less mass.
Destroyers were the escorts. Wikipedia even organizes them into nice lists where you can tick off all the WW2 destroyers that were slower than battleships. Its a short list! Quote:
Most destroyers even today are only capable of around 35 knots. Many battleships in WW2 could easily hit 31 and higher.
Which is faster than any capital... ever. And only 1 class could do 31 with full magazines and stores. The bismark never got anywhere near 31 when chased. Not only that, have you ever tried to turn a Nimitz.
It's obvious that CCP is going with "bigger the slower" approach, maybe to the point that speed is calculated in the system and not arbitrarily assigned. (I don't know)
The departure from reality in this case is battleship and carrier speed, but an Eve version of a carrier if we went with RL factors would be a battleship that has only drones, whereas in the game a carrier is a large vessel in another class. There were smaller ships that carried aircraft and that's closer to an equivalent Gallente drone boat. This could be the RL equivalent to a Vexor. Yet now we have a Gallente destroyer that can field 5 drones.
But the speed of RL battleships during the second world war was mainly due to the fact that they actually got fired upon. Dig around a bit and you will find pictures of battleships in actual avoidance maneuvers as they got bombarded and torpedoed. This does not happen so much now, using very large aircraft carriers and keeping the enemy far away with aircraft, subs, and anti-ship missiles.
It's going to be interesting at least to see long range battleships fighting more along modern tactics while Gallente ships remain in the 15th century Spanish Armada (in your face ship melting short range brutality) strategy. We might end up back to days where Gallente ships get picked apart by missiles and long range turrets while slowboating to battle and drone DPS getting ignored.
(again) |
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