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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1977
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Dreadnoughts are meant for structure/capital/supercapital bashing, not subcap blapping or sleeper duty. That's what the Phoenix does, and pretty well at that. The other dreads are out of control, and they need to be fixed.
And if CCP wants dreads to be used as they are currently, I have a very simple fix for the Phoenix. Increase Capital Missile velocity and decrease the flight time to keep the range as it is while making them reach the targets faster, then slap a huge damage bonus on the Phoenix.
There you go, 3 dreads that can do pretty much anything and one that can only apply its humongous DPS values to moon-like objects. Have fun.
EDIT: % shield implants would be incredible. 100 mil EHP Wyverns everywhere.
EDIT n-¦2: I am the proud owner of a proudly unexploded Phoenix. Get one: it's like using a scalpel.
You'll need to increase the explosion velocity too. Or you'll find Titans speed tanking citadel cruises. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
307
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote: You'll need to increase the explosion velocity too. Or you'll find Titans speed tanking citadel cruises.
Yes, but this needs to be handled very carefully, taking in count TP and SW stacking values in order to predict and contain the maximum damage application potential. Potentially incoming missile modules complicate the equation even more. The main issue with the Phoenix (as well as the main reason why CCP hasn't laid its hands on it yet, IMO) is that it has a massive power creep potential. I've been fiddling with it for quite a while already, and I can see it becoming very powerful with only a few twists. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Knights Armament
Operator Chan
89
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
lets pretend like the majority of alliances aren't all armor tanking logis and caldari are not useless bastards no one bothers undocking, the basilisk isn't even cap stable the game balance is only existent in the minds of winmatar and gallente pilots.
Don't bother training for anything other than those two alpha races. https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=29554516-05f9-4eca-a942-32e1701a6569&action=buddy |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
307
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Posted - 2013.11.04 14:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:the basilisk isn't even cap stable
Trying to make a Basilisk cap-stable is a clear sign of not knowing how it's meant to be used.
Besides, there are lots of good Caldari ships at the moment. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3222
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Posted - 2013.11.04 14:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
The Renner wrote:nah, Rapid rapid rapid light missile launcher is the way to go, think of the possible trolling of frigate fleets.
So rapid it rips a hole in the space time continuum and sends missiles back in time to kill the enemies momma so the kid won't grow up to destroy skynet.
This is the only way to fix the Phoenix.
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Anomaly One
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2013.11.04 14:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The Renner wrote:nah, Rapid rapid rapid light missile launcher is the way to go, think of the possible trolling of frigate fleets. So rapid it rips a hole in the space time continuum and sends missiles back in time to kill the enemies momma so the kid won't grow up to destroy skynet. This is the only way to fix the Phoenix.
0.1 rate of fire, missile fleets in tidi, because seeing 4k missiles heading towards your ship at 1/10 of a second is pretty awesome. |
Cambarus
Veni Vidi Vaselini
329
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Posted - 2013.11.04 16:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:ElQuirko wrote:Ptraci wrote:Speaking as a former phoenix owner - highest volley amount? BS. You've never seen the volley a Moros can dish out. 70 to 80k with a Phoenix compared to - 80-150k per volley from a Moros? Besides, the Phoenix volley happens every 15-20 secs, as opposed to the 5 sec volley of hybrid ships. So when you have a mediocre volley with a huge cycle time, what does that do to your DPS? Makes it embarrassingly small, for one thing. Speaking as a former moros owner, what?! WeellGǪ 60k:ish with blasters, +ù1.5 for a high-quality hit or +ù3 for a wrecking hit = 90k and 180k, respectively. Calling it the norm is a bit misleading, though. You have a .0027% chance of critting with all 3 guns in the same volley if memory serves, I think my personal best was ~100k >_>
That said, the pheonix needs a buff, but I'm not holding my breath.
The notion of dreads being for engaging towers is as old as it is wrong, the mechanics behind structure bashing in general just don't mesh at well with how dreads work. A Phoenix could do twice the damage of a Moros to towers and still be a worse dread, because in structure bashes the structure itself isn't the dangerous thing, and taking a bit longer to kill it is a small price to pay for the ability to deal with the people who inevitably show up to defend it. The notion of dreads being used as siege weapons is flawed, because siege weapons don't really have a use when people can't actually fight from behind their walls. |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
308
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Posted - 2013.11.04 16:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cambarus wrote: The notion of dreads being for engaging towers is as old as it is wrong, the mechanics behind structure bashing in general just don't mesh at well with how dreads work. A Phoenix could do twice the damage of a Moros to towers and still be a worse dread, because in structure bashes the structure itself isn't the dangerous thing, and taking a bit longer to kill it is a small price to pay for the ability to deal with the people who inevitably show up to defend it. The notion of dreads being used as siege weapons is flawed, because siege weapons don't really have a use when people can't actually fight from behind their walls.
The last sentence doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't. Siege weapons DO have a use when people behind the walls can't fight. They're meant to destroy fortifications or damage those who are besieged, whenever such thing is needed. The main objective of a siege is to take a fortified location by force, whether confronted by active or passive resistance.
There have been countless sieges throughout history during which the besieged party did not fight back, but took refuge inside the walls and waited for reinforcements (or for the enemy to simply go away).
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Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
7
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Posted - 2013.11.04 17:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Leave the Phoenix as is. It's the ultimate structure bashing dread. It sucks at everything else because of that. It has it's one purpose, just leave it at that. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
743
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Posted - 2013.11.04 18:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Rapid rapid heavy missile launcher
Capital bomb launcher with crazy RoF and the T2 capital bombs will be proximity fuse system instead of always flying to thier max range with an IFF system so it does not blow up just because you have friendly ahead of you.
Make it happen CCP. |
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
743
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Posted - 2013.11.04 18:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nolen Cadmar wrote:Leave the Phoenix as is. It's the ultimate structure bashing dread. It sucks at everything else because of that. It has it's one purpose, just leave it at that.
It has less dps than other dreads. Why are people saying it's sooo good at structure bashing? Did anyone ever alpha a tower or something? |
Lazy Eagle
FUITA
16
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Posted - 2013.11.04 20:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Make them armor tanks, with hybrids........ so a Moros pretty much. There is another option, but it is muddy. First, convince triage carriers that shield is a viable triage module. Second, convince bloc fleets that shield triage wil definitely NOT get all of you killed. Third, nerf the hell out of every other dread. This really would make it the best dread.... Fourth, make it a "veldnaught" seriously, this has win written all over it.
Also..... posting in stealth :nerf dreads(except phoenix): thread |
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
84
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Posted - 2013.11.04 21:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Primarily, I hate the Phoenix because I only purchased the Capital Launcher Hardpoint BPO for the Nagflar and then CCP f*&ked me my changing the build requirements....
...and now I'm left with an expensive BPO that I can't offload becuase its only used for the ugliest, useless piece of Caldari crap in the game.
Yes... thanks a bunch CCP..... |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2205
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Posted - 2013.11.04 21:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: You'll need to increase the explosion velocity too. Or you'll find Titans speed tanking citadel cruises.
Yes, but this needs to be handled very carefully, taking in count TP and SW stacking values in order to predict and contain the maximum damage application potential. Potentially incoming missile modules complicate the equation even more. The main issue with the Phoenix (as well as the main reason why CCP hasn't laid its hands on it yet, IMO) is that it has a massive power creep potential. I've been fiddling with it for quite a while already, and I can see it becoming very powerful with only a few twists. Did you manage to find the rare CCP Nozh target painter?!?! |
Me ofcourse
nul-li-fy Nulli Secunda
97
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Posted - 2013.11.05 06:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
destiny2 wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:destiny2 wrote:the pheonix is one of the best pos bashing ships in the game. it gets the highest volley amount out of any dread for damage. and they can get some pretty beastly tanks as well. yeah, was running some fun with some old buddies in low a week back, figured out, the Phoenix is technically where a capital/dread should be. its tanky as all ****, has a super heavy amount of damage, but absolutely no way to apply it to much fo anything. i mean, the phoenix is literally the only capital that actually NEEDS a "support fleet" of anything besides 200 other identical capitals. I prefer the pheonix over any other dread, only cause well missiles hit everything, in a straight 1 vrs 1 dread vrs dread a pheonix will prolly come out on top, as it has the abilitys to swap damage types easily.
nope, phoenix will lose easily, all the other dread has to do is move their ship and close to 75% of the damage is negated because of the explosion velocity of the missiles |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
311
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Posted - 2013.11.05 17:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: Did you manage to find the rare CCP Nozh target painter?!?!
Holy frag, that's one ancient reference you've got there! I wonder how did he end up...
Nah, I was just referring to the remote eventuality of the buffed Phoenix being used as a subcap blapper. |
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