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Iacon
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Posted - 2006.02.10 14:07:00 -
[1]
This thread is for discussing the Tech II market and BPo system. Rules are as follows.
1. No personal arguments here please, everyone is allowed an idea or opinion. 2. Objective discussion only please, no "you get 10 BPO's no fair!!!11one" 3. All normal forum rules apply 4. Please try and explain your ideas not just "It's fine, leave it" 5. Any pointless posts may be deleted 6. This is a collection of ideas not a guarantee that anyone will look at this thread.
Please note that this is the 'I like it' thread. If you want to complain about the current system the thread is here
-Iacon
Forum Rules [email protected] |
Duraeli
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Posted - 2006.02.10 14:23:00 -
[2]
T2 market is fine...BPO delivery system may need a little working, but the market is representative of the higher demand/lower availability of these items. They are meant to be the higher quality items. Not everyone in a game like WoW have the "uberz rare l00ts."
Just had to get that off my chest. ---------------------------------------------- Persona non grata |
Professor Smartypants
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Posted - 2006.02.10 14:28:00 -
[3]
The market is not the problem, it is the process itself of distributing the BPO's and the fact that BPO's are even seeded in the first place in my opinion. See my post here for a suggestion on how it should change.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.02.10 14:30:00 -
[4]
Markets are fine cause i got "isk print bpo" and i like to print isk with it.
Alos, its capitalistikc system that allows Smart win dumb.
if you release all t2 stuff, it will come down to "grind isk, buy bpo, make stuff" like in t1 right now.
Keep t2 rare, keep things intresting.
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Elknine
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Posted - 2006.02.10 14:31:00 -
[5]
Sorry but what's the point in creating two separate threads ? The whole point of a discussion is confronting ideas. How are we supposed to do this if each side is to post its arguments in its own thread ? Or did I miss something ?
-- Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate.
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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2006.02.10 14:35:00 -
[6]
I think Icaon accidentally double posted
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Jowen Datloran
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Posted - 2006.02.10 16:01:00 -
[7]
Well, I'll try something new and will try to sell my command ship through BYOM deals for a while. The insane skill requirements to use this ship seems like a barrier enough and I would actually like to see some of them fly one day.
So go read my bio ingame for details if you're interested.
This is also an attempt to give people a little idea how much effort it takes me to produce these ships. And don't try to do a major reselling stunt, because I'll notice immideatly.
Restrictions: Only one BYOM deal pr. customer No selling to characters less than a month old. ---------------- Main as main can be.
Freelance producer of: Spike M hybrid ammo (1k/unit) Damnation command cruiser (200m/unit) Now with BYOM deal, see bio for details. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.10 22:42:00 -
[8]
The T2 system itself is just fine.
On the other hand, what is needed is more HAC BPOs and the like. Just because item X is overpriced doesn't mean the whole system should be overhauled--it means something related to item X needs to be fixed. That means more BPOs. -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron POKEMON -eris Jacques was 'ere |
Saerid
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Posted - 2006.02.10 23:03:00 -
[9]
The mechanism itself is "ok", could be better, could be worse. But it works.
As for the market aspect, there's too few BPOs seeded of HACs at least, need to scale the print count up to match playerbase development.
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Johnathan Roark
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Posted - 2006.02.11 08:20:00 -
[10]
Nothing wrong with the market imo.
I love the fact that not everyone has the same bpo like the tech 1 stuff.
My only objection is I have do missions to get a chance. I would love to see something where I perform set task, and I get a chance at receiving a BPO.
Corporation Management Improvement |
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Vaar
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Posted - 2006.02.11 12:18:00 -
[11]
I as well as a number if people enjoy playing this game with the T2 market as it is. We all know how terrible the T1 market has become. If the T2 market ever gets close to what the T1 is like a lot of people will quit due to shear boredom. T2 is a luxury and therefore not everyone needs to have it. At the same time there is so much cash in the game that a hell lot of people can afford these ships. Eve is interesting because it is not regulated apart from by demand/supply. Lets keep it that way.
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Nukeitall
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Posted - 2006.02.11 22:06:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Nukeitall on 11/02/2006 22:07:52 Wrong thread..
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.12 12:18:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/02/2006 12:24:17
I personally think T2 market and BPOs are OK but can be improve with a little tweaking. Lottery system can be improved further but the limit of BPOs should always be determined by CCP. If there should be 20 BPOs, then 20 it is. Anymore, can kill or cripple the market.
When introducing new toys or product lines, there should always be several stages of a product life cycle before T3,
1. Product introduction 2. Market skimming 3. Growth 4. Maturity 5. End of life
In EvE, we should see 1-4. When we do, it will be a good market system. With the current system we can see 1-4 but there are a few weaknesses.
6. Imbalanced supply vs demand. 7. Build ratio (i.e. order/build ratio)
In EvE, 6 and 7 can be imbalanced. Imbalanced is good but for some items in EvE, they are too imbalanced, i.e. 6 and 7 no longer holds in general. E.g. a good build ratio should be around 0.6 but anything < 0.2 or > 1.5 is a good sign that market is imbalanced. Prolonged period of imbalances means there is a problem in the market or the economics of EvE.
What I think can improve the situation?
8. BPOs in EvE need not any change at all. 9. Introduce elements that can dynamically change the market.
How 8 and 9 improves the situation?
We do not need much more BPOs in EvE. The amount set by CCP should be more than adaquate to see 1-4. However, because EvE is getting a bit more mature, the market needs to evolve and be a little more dynamic than it was a year ago. So, we will need 9 and still see the effects of 1-4.
Because, there arent anymore BPOs in the market after introduction/seeding, monopolies and cartels can be formed, which is good. But like any good economics, there must be mechanisms to enable dynamic market rules i.e. what can be formed, can be broken too. High prices will not stay higher, it must go lower. Same as the reverse. In EvE, for some T2 items, they do not appear to be true. Things get higher and higher. Blame manufacturers or resellers? No. It is all part of the game.
We need a new element of game play to put life into the market condition, e.g. 9. One good idea is to introduce Reverse Engineering like what CCP is already planning to do. Reverse engineering should allow a new side of play in EvE, scientists/engineers will be useful. E.g. all one needs to do is to buy a Vagabond to work on a sample so that a BPC from the research can be produced. From the BPCs (and science skills), one can make up to 25 runs per Vagabond BPC from the initial sample. After researching, the original Vagabond is destroyed due to research.
Other method of improvements? Offer some limited run BPCs as agent rewards.
How can the market be more dynamic with the capped BPOs circulation and limited BPCs?
We will still see 1-4 with lucky owners getting the lotteries. They will still get to charge overpriced items for sometime before other manufacturers can come out with similar products to pressure down the market a little from being too overpriced due to broken 6 and 7. Think of it as globalisation. Cartels and monopolies can still be formed but depending on 6 and 7 too.
The only different now is that, market is more dynamic. When things get broken, there can be a fix because situation will mend itself via equilibrium. Somebody will build something that is in heavily in demand and, prices and supplies will balanced themselves out. Current gameplay does not permit this, therefore, overpriced items because no new manufacturers can enter the market. Resellers too dont have much competition under the current system.
Final thought?
Keep the amount of T2 BPOs as they are now and in the future. Too many can ruin the market. Introduce new skills like Reverse Engineering to allow limited BPCs circulating to meet supply and demand. Current system is not totally broken, just too restrictive. ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! RAWRRRRRRR!!1 - Imaran Wrangler, stealing Eris pink since a few days ago. We always knew you had a thing for pink - Vanamonde |
Arthmandar Valikari
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Posted - 2006.02.15 16:42:00 -
[14]
CCP, while you're considering revamping the tech II R&D system, I would like to point out a few things that I think are excellent about the current systems and I would like to see persist through any modifications. In other words, these are the aspects of the current system I think are great.
1. The potentially passive nature of R&D -- although you only get half the RPs per day, you can start research and do nothing else and *eventually* you might win something. These kind of activites are excellent for those with busy RLs who can't spend much time in game grinding for an R&D agent.
2. The significant different in rewards of the R&D missions -- unlike kill or even normal courier missions, you are exchanging your time and ISK for RPs, rather than time for ISK.
3. The R&D access requirements -- the high standing requirements, and even more the need to run a bazillion courier missions for some corporations, make R&D interesting and different. There must be people who love running courier missions, and more power to 'em, but generally, the access to R&D is the reward at the end of a long, reasonably boring road, but one worth the journey (hopefully).
I personally like the fact that there is significant difference between R&D work and 'normal' agent work, and I hope that this can continue.
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Shiner BockBeer
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Posted - 2006.02.26 00:09:00 -
[15]
Its working as it should for the most part except for a notable shortage of certain ship types. The only thing that needs to be addressed is the shortagers that affect those ships and the BPO acquisition system.
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.03.02 09:35:00 -
[16]
The tech II market is fine for the BP owners. For the Consumer its Fubar. |
Tyrail
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Posted - 2006.03.08 11:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
if you release all t2 stuff, it will come down to "grind isk, buy bpo, make stuff" like in t1 right now.
Keep t2 rare, keep things intresting.
I like the idea of t2 BPO's being "hard to get" - but maybe a few more BPO's wouldnt be misplaced. Price skyrocket because most of the BPO's are used for production "within corp" meaning outsiders have somewhat more dificulty in obtaining t2 items/ships.
In short, a couple more of each BPO wouldnt hurt, but dont flood us with them. :)
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Daddy's Princess
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Posted - 2006.03.15 02:01:00 -
[18]
As someone said, majority of the t2 market is just fine. A handful of things are hard to come buy and over priced, BUT this is a PVP game on all levels. And getting hac BPOs and only releasing product cheap to friendlies is all part of that. Or accumulating more of a certain BPO to be able to dictate prices.
People seem to just ignore this part of PvP in EVE and just expect the things to go their way. The bottom line is you got pwned by a better PvPer. Tough *******.
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Necronomicon
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Posted - 2006.03.18 12:53:00 -
[19]
Given the massive growth of eve since the HAC BPOs were seeded, I do think these need some more copies handed out, from a sub 50mill build cost, the manufacturers are enjoying a 400% return per ship purely because demand outstrips production, a closer balance would favour the player base and still give the producers a healthy profit.
T2 BPOs should not be an "I Win" button. In some cases, this is exactly what they are.
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
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Heikki
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Posted - 2006.03.20 20:37:00 -
[20]
Just to add a supportive voice:
Current T2 has sound and desired properties: - Free market is good unique feature of Eve; let people decide how much they willing to pay for items - It creates variation to ships and setups by adding need for cost-benefit consideration - Lottery is good: in addition to 'become rich by grinding' our systems gives bonus option for luck.
There might be some points that need fine tuning or monitoring to ensure that: - There are reasonably amount of BPOs based on population (not based on 'current ship of the month' shortages - All BPOs are producing (to prevent quitting players, or theoretical cartels that increase price by constantly restricting supply..)
Also, the market should be 'predictable'; it should fully depends on player interactions instead of unexpected random changes. That is, CCP should make up their mind how to handle T2-T5, and inform us well before it will happen..
-Lasse
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A Brr
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Posted - 2006.03.22 18:10:00 -
[21]
T2 market is fine. T2 modules have to be diffrent and improved from standard T1 equip. When T2 stuff becomes comon like T1 stuff, why keep T1 stuff at all? You don't ask for dropping thousands of officer loot items, so don't ask for T2 for everyone. And building T2 items, require a lot of manufacturing skills, so this is not a job for char 4 weeks old.
Check ot the other thread for my opinion about whats wrong with the T2 market.
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Eve Junkie2
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Posted - 2006.03.28 14:46:00 -
[22]
The Bottom line is, i can make a Stilettos for X and sell it for XXXXXX and left with XXXXX!
Brilliant!
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CaptainSeafort
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Posted - 2006.04.05 10:48:00 -
[23]
Edited by: CaptainSeafort on 05/04/2006 10:53:33 commenting on the freemarket: yes, its a freemarket to an extent, but you dont get the government bodies stopping extortionate price increases, and stopping cartels of businessmen increasing prices/creating monopolies just to squeeze and extra pound out of the economy - its bad for business, the economy, and builds resentment in real life, as it obviously does here. think about that.
a possible idea would be giving NPC corps a very limited supply of t2 stuff, thus giving a kind of ceiling or anchor on the price, and the claims. the ceiling wouldnt have to be prohibitively low, say 350M for a hulk etc, but it would definitely promote the competition between manufacturers that eventually drives prices down in an economic model.
"Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE! |
K Shara
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Posted - 2006.04.11 13:52:00 -
[24]
its fine as is.
Its nice that you can invest in this sort of thing and not get price ganked by macro builder like some games.
However that being said, the number of players has increased but not the number of BPO's. This will mean that there is more and more demand and less and less availability
CCP, should seed a few more PO's of each type, maybe 1 of each per month for a few months and examine what happens.
If signs of a tech2 market crash appear, stop there other wise continue till 150%-200% of current volume. <><><><><><><><><>
Contraband
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Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2006.04.16 11:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: K Shara However that being said, the number of players has increased but not the number of BPO's. This will mean that there is more and more demand and less and less availability
Amarr Factory Outpost increases the effective prints on the market by 40+% for now due to increase in output. The ball is back in the court of players to do something about it.
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