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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
97032
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:38:00 -
[241] - Quote
Idiots... |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1020
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:39:00 -
[242] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote: No one complains when the Goons control a giant swath of null.
Uh, do you even read this forum? Everyone complains about it all the time.
But only one man has the courage to change the face of the galaxy.
Forever.
Harry Forever.
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Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:41:00 -
[243] - Quote
- You are all crazy
- I support carebear-ism. I DON'T support mining. There is no excuse for this activity. Minerals come from melted loot just as well as from ore.
- Suicide gankers go after (very) low hanging fruit. It is incredibly easy to avoid being suicide ganked.
- The only time it's ok to fit nothing but cargo expanders to an Iteron V is when you're filling it to the brim with tritanium. No one wants your tritanium, seriously.
- Say you have 2x Pithum A-type invuls to move from Jita to Osmon. How do you get them between these two points? If you said in a fully cargo-expanded Iteron, you would be wrong. You would, however, be in good company because people actually do this. Try a shuttle instead.
- Fit a tank > 12k EHP
- Don't fly more than 200m in your T1 indy. Many gankers will go for 300m and above. If you're carrying > 400m, you will likely fly home in a pod.
- Blockade runner. Yes, I know, you have to train something to V. Deal with it.
- It's easy to ruin a suicide gankers day.
A little respect for us gankers would be appreciated. We work hard to put food on the table. |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
266
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:59:00 -
[244] - Quote
Really it's not the ganking, it''s the finger wagging,. dear god make it stop. |
Zheng'Yi Sao
DIRTY MONEY INC. The Mountain Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:11:00 -
[245] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Really it's not the ganking, it''s the finger wagging,. dear god make it stop.
Finger wagging is silent.
Crying is much louder...
Honestly, I'm shocked reading this thread. I figured the natural reaction was something like:
"I lost something doing X."
"I shoudl not do X again."
Life goes on.
When it is in fact:
"I lost something doing X."
"Cry to big brother so he wil come and save me from myself."
Please don't lump all of us hi-secers in with these people. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
295
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:21:00 -
[246] - Quote
Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:IDK...
I've spent my first few months in hi-sec. I just fly paranoid. I always align when I mine, I am always at the keyboard when I mine. Being WarDec'd recently vastly improved my game play. Frankly, I get tired of other lazy miners not making the most of their cycles and surveyors. Time is money. Don't waste my time. I don't auto pilot either. The way I see it, if you are going to load up a big fat pig, hit auto pilot, and walk away, you deserve what you get. It is just proper economics to gank such targets as they come through. Really, honestly, this is EVE. Are you really going to cry to CCP instead of defending yourselves? You carebears are an embarassment to us carebears. HTFU. I would rather die in my under-fit frigate than pay extortion or cry.
When I first read about Minerbumping.com I thought a couple things. One, I suppose in some perverse way I saw their point. Second, I thought they were hypocrites offering a indulgence instead of just carrying on their crusade. It quickly occured to me this was just a method by which to extort 10m from fools who actually believed they would be honored. Just proper economics.
I just wish gankers would form a proper corporation. Join a union. Make yourselves a target. War reduces the themepark to low sec real quick; but they won't. It has nothing to do with having to face a thempark of angry carebears. They just aren't high enough caliber. I in one moment hate them and in another love them. They enjoy what they do because they enjoy the carebear tears. Hell, I am a carebear (?) and I enjoy the carebear tears. Trolls can't eat if they aren't fed, why do people never learn? Same reason they continue to autopilot through Hi-Sec I suppose. Hell, I might have to join in on frieghter ganking if idiots keep leaving so much ISK in the open...
I suppose I am saying thank you for making me a better pilot. I am also saying man up and make yourself a proper target. You will kill my 4m skillpoint (half industry) noob nine times out of ten, but eventually I will get you. But you aren't really about making the game a better place, or me a better pilot. Most of you are proper trolls, and that is that. Then again, this is why EVE is the whacky place that it is EVE.
So I say go to hell, and carry on...
NOT EMPTY QUOTAN BECAUSE THIS IS A COMPLEX RESPONSE WITHOUT WAAAH OR BLOO-BLOO. I GÖÑ U THIS <---------------------------------------------> MUCH.
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Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
114
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:41:00 -
[247] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Fey Ivory wrote:i wanted to make a thread about this, but i can as well reply to this, i think some should try read and actually understand what OP is saying... Highsec shouldent be idiot safe, thats not what OP is saying, the problem is the corsepondance of what doing crimes in highsec entails, if you do it, you get punished, and the punishment should allways be in such a way that it actually hurts, and not just for those that just have started playing the game, wich points us back to what OP is trying to say... there is no punishment in highsec, if you have the means to cover the looses, for suicide ganks, wich makes the whole idea with, you >should< get punished in highsec if you violate its rules, void Make a idiot proof system, and someone will invent a better idiot ! The only MMOs that last a player more than a year require item loss (general consumption, not just consumable potions) in order to keep the market functional. The only other way around that is for the developer to start the mudflation themepark treadmill. ie ships have to die, no matter what sec they are in. We wouldn't have concord if the designers didn't want ganking, we'd have a straitjacket that prevented you firing. it appears the balancing point for the designers is no solo industrial ganking of T2 fitted ships for profit, ie the ganker has to do better than "no research and no cooperation" to profit. Anyone sitting around for an hour for a failed gank, lost a considerable amount of isk in opportunity cost terms, not counting the shiploss. ie it is considerably more punishing than just losing the ship even when you succeed.
I agree with you and i never debate with you about the ability to gank, as i pointed out, what concord does is punish players for ganking, but what i do object against, is that the richer you get, and the more powerfull alliance your part of, the less of a punishment you get, as it is set up at moment, loosing a cata for a beginner is a big deal, while rich powerfull corporations can bascially set off funds, train up alts, and bascially take NO punishment towards their main operations, or main characters... this is what i object towards |
Zheng'Yi Sao
DIRTY MONEY INC. The Mountain Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:46:00 -
[248] - Quote
Why should CCP punish these big corportations for being able to do such things?
If people in hi-sec don't like it, they should band together, fly into low-sec and burn the whole thing down. This is called player driven content. The problem isn't with burning Jita, it is with people who cry out to be saved instead of banding together and addressing the problem head on. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
754
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:47:00 -
[249] - Quote
It's almost like there isn't a plethora of stations that provide a safe environment in which one might leave his/her keyboard in the sector of space in which you were travelling through...
Oh wait. |
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
114
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:55:00 -
[250] - Quote
Becouse, i dident make the game and i dident set up highsec as it is, but if CCP sets up highsec as it is, and ganking should come with a punishment, then it should be a punishment, not a way to avoid it for what it is, that it barely affects you, depending on your resources, then it isent a punishment, now is it ? |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
691
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:55:00 -
[251] - Quote
For the people incapable of understanding what I wrote:
1. I don't want ganking stopped. I want it made less safe. IE - something you do when you scan a ship full of something valuable, not something you do simply for fun without profit in mind.
2. As I have repeatedly said, Oveur stated that "highsec was supposed to be relatively safe", since then no dev has stated otherwise. The reason its called high sec (High Security) is because its supposed to be secure space. Currently there appear to be more gate camps in high sec than in null or low.
3. I don't want to autopilot with billions in loot. I want to autopilot my 30 minute old alt without getting its velator and pod killed just for fun by an alt that's going to biomass itself without anyone knowing. If I was a complete newb which I could have been, that account may have been lost.
4. As for my running anoms in null, lol. I'm doing that to fund my 8 man stealth bomber wing, which will be coming to a VFK near you shortly. |
Violet Crumble
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2013.11.06 00:58:00 -
[252] - Quote
Nick Curso wrote:If you get mugged on the street when do the police arrive, before or after the mugging?....
Well if YouTube is anything to go by, sometimes they are the ones doing the mugging.
Don't give CCP any ideas.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
691
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Posted - 2013.11.06 01:06:00 -
[253] - Quote
Violet Crumble wrote:Nick Curso wrote:If you get mugged on the street when do the police arrive, before or after the mugging?.... Well if YouTube is anything to go by, sometimes they are the ones doing the mugging. Don't give CCP any ideas. If you mug someone and the cops turn up the dont just give you 15 minutes in a cell. |
Shederov Blood
Wrecketeers
553
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Posted - 2013.11.06 01:19:00 -
[254] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:If you mug someone and the cops turn up the dont just give you 15 minutes in a cell. They instantly mug you right back! THEN they give you 15 minutes in a cell and tell the victim they have a month to mug you, or get someone else to mug you for them. After too many muggings, they just say, "Ahh, screw it, we'll just let everyone mug you anywhere, anytime... but we'll still show up and instamug you if you try anything, and throw you back in your cell." |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
63
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Posted - 2013.11.06 01:33:00 -
[255] - Quote
It is kind of hilarious, it started off.... "Well just dont but more than 10 bil in a freighter"
Then, "Well, if you dont wanna get ganked dont put more than one bill in a freighter"
Later "Just use an orca, flying a freighter is just asking for it"
even later.... "Well dont put more than 500 mil in your cargo hold"
Yeah CCP only cares about griefing when it happens to an alliance with a CSM rep. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
202
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Posted - 2013.11.06 01:47:00 -
[256] - Quote
Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:Why should CCP punish these big corportations for being able to do such things?
If people in hi-sec don't like it, they should band together, fly into low-sec and burn the whole thing down. This is called player driven content. The problem isn't with burning Jita, it is with people who cry out to be saved instead of banding together and addressing the problem head on.
But that requires coordination and effort. Its easier to moan and complain about a game mechanic that is working as intended. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1370
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 01:53:00 -
[257] - Quote
Quote:1. I don't want ganking stopped. I want it made less safe. IE - something you do when you scan a ship full of something valuable, not something you do simply for fun without profit in mind.
So... since when is "because I can" or "because it's funny" not a good enough reason to do something in a sandbox game? The people who do it for the lulz have every bit as much right to play by the same rules as people who do it for profit.
No more nerfs to ganking, enough is enough already. If anything, you need to make highsec less safe, so that if people want to introduce a little anarchy (shameless Joker quote) they aren't completely forced to suicide gank. That'd cut down on ganks pretty well. A lot of people gank, myself among them, because it's the last recourse.
Quote:I want to autopilot my 30 minute old alt without getting its velator and pod killed just for fun by an alt that's going to biomass itself without anyone knowing. If I was a complete newb which I could have been, that account may have been lost.
Good thing what you described in that quote is already against the rules then, and has nothing to do with typical suicide ganking.
Quote:4. As for my running anoms in null, lol. I'm doing that to fund my 8 man stealth bomber wing, which will be coming to a VFK near you shortly
The words of a carebear are naught but noise and air. |
Violet Crumble
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2013.11.06 01:58:00 -
[258] - Quote
Waldorf T Beagle wrote:As noob who signed up to take a look while I wait for elite dangerous, my 2p is that the OP is correct about game mechanics. It is too heavily weighted towards destruction. It takes months of skill training and investment to do anything constructive but a brand new alt can destroy things instantly with no downside.
Wrong on all counts.
There's a ton of construction going on and perfectly balanced by the destruction. You do know that most of the goods available on the market are made by players right? Destruction breeds construction and without one, there is not much need for the other.
On the issue of skill training, 12 days to a fully functioning PI character, who can actually be in to PI in just a couple of days.
PvP, no great SP necessary to start. You just have to have realistic expectations about what is going to happen, but a lot of skill in PvP is the experience of the player, not the experience of the pilot. So while SP are being trained, skill that helps later is being gained - and that stays with you forever, irrespective of the toon you use.
And finally, the brand new alt that can destroy instantly can also be yours to use against whomever you like. Don't like gankers hitting miners, go get organised and gank the gankers. Take responsibility for what happens to you in game and go dictate it, rather than having it dictated to you.
No downside - go make it. See my last point.
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Violet Crumble
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2013.11.06 02:01:00 -
[259] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:If you mug someone and the cops turn up the dont just give you 15 minutes in a cell.
But this is a game, not RL.
What, you want characters charged, judged and imprisoned (or let out on a good behaviour bond or executed or a whole host of other possibilities in this wonderful diverse world we live in)?
I agree with you on making ganking more risky. I don't have a problem with that at all.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1370
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Posted - 2013.11.06 02:03:00 -
[260] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Violet Crumble wrote:Nick Curso wrote:If you get mugged on the street when do the police arrive, before or after the mugging?.... Well if YouTube is anything to go by, sometimes they are the ones doing the mugging. Don't give CCP any ideas. If you mug someone and the cops turn up the dont just give you 15 minutes in a cell.
They also don't show up instantly, nor do they possess superhero invincibility. |
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Clyde Belvar
Ambition..
2
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Posted - 2013.11.06 02:16:00 -
[261] - Quote
Wrong on all counts.
There's a ton of construction going on and perfectly balanced by the destruction. You do know that most of the goods available on the market are made by players right? Destruction breeds construction and without one, there is not much need for the other.
On the issue of skill training, 12 days to a fully functioning PI character, who can actually be in to PI in just a couple of days.
PvP, no great SP necessary to start. You just have to have realistic expectations about what is going to happen, but a lot of skill in PvP is the experience of the player, not the experience of the pilot. So while SP are being trained, skill that helps later is being gained - and that stays with you forever, irrespective of the toon you use.
And finally, the brand new alt that can destroy instantly can also be yours to use against whomever you like. Don't like gankers hitting miners, go get organised and gank the gankers. Take responsibility for what happens to you in game and go dictate it, rather than having it dictated to you.
No downside - go make it. See my last point. [/quote]
Yes most of the goods are made by players,but why only ones who make profit should be veteran players ,alliances,why can't newer players make isk too.So why make industrial, trader career in eve if its not available to newer players? New indies are just ganked straight on undock,while big alliances profit on that,if it will continue like that eve will be left with dude with 100 chars.
EVE needs isk sink,ganking,but make it more hard to do.You are talking about miners hitting back to gankers,lol dude wake up imagine what will happen if miner corp will go attack some big ass gank alliance. |
Ludi Burek
Toilet Emergency JIHADASQUAD
273
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Posted - 2013.11.06 02:19:00 -
[262] - Quote
I propose that HS ganking be made consensual. The gankers need to issue a request to the potential gankee. If the prospect gankee is afk and cannot accept the request he can not be ganked. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
295
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Posted - 2013.11.06 02:35:00 -
[263] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:For the people incapable of understanding what I wrote:
1. I don't want ganking stopped. I want it made less safe. IE - something you do when you scan a ship full of something valuable, not something you do simply for fun without profit in mind.
2. As I have repeatedly said, Oveur stated that "highsec was supposed to be relatively safe", since then no dev has stated otherwise. The reason its called high sec (High Security) is because its supposed to be secure space. Currently there appear to be more gate camps in high sec than in null or low.
3. I don't want to autopilot with billions in loot. I want to autopilot my 30 minute old alt without getting its velator and pod killed just for fun by an alt that's going to biomass itself without anyone knowing. If I was a complete newb which I could have been, that account may have been lost.
4. As for my running anoms in null, lol. I'm doing that to fund my 8 man stealth bomber wing, which will be coming to a VFK near you shortly.
1. this point makes me want to gank someone, hard, for no reason, anywhere. Luckily, i can. 2. Hisec is the safest space. (Edit: for new pilots.) 3. oh who cares? 4. Nobody cares. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
193
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Posted - 2013.11.06 02:49:00 -
[264] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:1. I don't want ganking stopped. I want it made less safe. IE - something you do when you scan a ship full of something valuable, not something you do simply for fun without profit in mind.
That explanation has nothing to do with 'safety'.
Infinity Ziona wrote:2. As I have repeatedly said, Oveur stated that "highsec was supposed to be relatively safe", since then no dev has stated otherwise. The reason its called high sec (High Security) is because its supposed to be secure space. Currently there appear to be more gate camps in high sec than in null or low.
Yes, you have said that repeatedly; but what you consistently leave out is what he said that in response to--
Someone complaining about the (then) new features: "Mass security hits for a single aggression, 20 minute+ timer that doesn't allow you to leave the system for an age, no chance of escaping CONCORD in 0.5-0.6 systems"
(These features are all still in effect in highsec, except the 20 minutes timer is 15 minutes)
Thus, the meaning of "relatively safe" is clearly given, and the current situation clearly qualifies as "relatively safe". Using that quote, as you do so often, is thus intentionally deceptive.
Infinity Ziona wrote:3. I don't want to autopilot with billions in loot. I want to autopilot my 30 minute old alt without getting its velator and pod killed just for fun by an alt that's going to biomass itself without anyone knowing. If I was a complete newb which I could have been, that account may have been lost.
That's already against the rules; therefore no change is needed.
If you think ganking is too safe, prove it, by ganking so much that people sit up and say "wow, ganking is too easy now:" Cherry picking misrepresentative quotes from former CCP devs isn't going to prove anything. |
Frying Doom
3245
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 02:56:00 -
[265] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:pod killed just for fun by an alt that's going to biomass itself without anyone knowing. Biomassing a negative-sec status alt to remove the pirate status is illegal and stupid
You just run all 3 characters into the negatives and then just start a new account |
Good Posting
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2013.11.06 02:57:00 -
[266] - Quote
Do like me. When you see a tornado gang camping a station, switch to your ceptor, split guns and ***** kill mails like a baws. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
692
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Posted - 2013.11.06 03:16:00 -
[267] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:1. I don't want ganking stopped. I want it made less safe. IE - something you do when you scan a ship full of something valuable, not something you do simply for fun without profit in mind. That explanation has nothing to do with 'safety'. Infinity Ziona wrote:2. As I have repeatedly said, Oveur stated that "highsec was supposed to be relatively safe", since then no dev has stated otherwise. The reason its called high sec (High Security) is because its supposed to be secure space. Currently there appear to be more gate camps in high sec than in null or low. Yes, you have said that repeatedly; but what you consistently leave out is what he said that in response to-- Someone complaining about the (then) new features: "Mass security hits for a single aggression, 20 minute+ timer that doesn't allow you to leave the system for an age, no chance of escaping CONCORD in 0.5-0.6 systems" (These features are all still in effect in highsec, except the 20 minutes timer is 15 minutes) Thus, the meaning of "relatively safe" is clearly given, and the current situation clearly qualifies as "relatively safe". Using that quote, as you do so often, is thus intentionally deceptive. I want to address this because this is where you're sticking your head firmly and deeply in the sand and yelling nah nah nah so you don't understand the problem right?
At the time security hits were extremely hard to get back up. After going -7 on this character gate camping in low I had to go and spend 3 months in null ratting to get it from -7 back to 0.
This is no longer the case. Hits are lower, hits are easier to repair. To the extent that they don't really matter at all.
Additionally to gank a cruiser you would have needed a 100 million + isk battleship or a bunch of cruisers. Now you need a destroyer or two.
To gank a battleship you would have needed multiple battleships.
To gank a freighter when they came out you needed around 30 battleships. Now you need 30 T1 catalysts worth around 60 million isk vs 3 billion in the past.
In short when he said high sec was supposed to be "relatively safe" he said it in the context that you could gank but the costs involved would be significant, in regards to isk, manpower and security status.
This is no longer the case, the costs are now around 98% less, from 100 million + per ship to 2 million, the sec status loss is much less, the manpower needed is much much less.
High sec given the camps I see, is certainly no where near as safe as it was then and nowhere near as safe as it was intended to be.
CCP has dropped the ball on this.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1370
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 03:16:00 -
[268] - Quote
Good Posting wrote:Do like me. When you see a tornado gang camping a station, switch to your ceptor, split guns and ***** kill mails like a baws.
Confirming that this is why hauler ships have turret slots. |
Don Purple
Black Plague Industries
110
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 03:20:00 -
[269] - Quote
You are actually complaining about having to be AT YOUR COMPUTER, to play a computer game. Stop. Think. Biomass and save us your bad posting. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1370
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 03:23:00 -
[270] - Quote
Quote:In short when he said high sec was supposed to be "relatively safe" he said it in the context that you could gank but the costs involved would be significant, in regards to isk, manpower and security status.
You're inferring that from a one sentence, out of context quote how, precisely?
Ah, that's right, I forgot. You're insane. |
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