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Henry Montclaire
42nd Devils and Dragons Dalek Asylum
97
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
"CONCORD has put out a one-time call for capsuleers to provide backup [emphasis mine] on a 'massive, sustained assault on high-priority targets."
Thousands of loyal capsuleers gathered to assist the empires and were betrayed. We were led directly into a series of traps set by null sec capsuleers and given no military or logistics support by the empires we were supposedly providing backup for. In a best case scenario, our assets and the lives of our crews were squandered as unwitting decoys while Empire strike teams accomplished their objectives. Far more likely, the Empires sought to accomplish their own petty ends with absolutely no investment, hoping that volunteer capsuleers would shoulder the entire burden of dealing with this still 'secret threat'.
I for one do not appreciate being manipulated into sacrificing my ships and my people for an organization which refuses to provide even token support to its associates. As far as I'm concerned, and I reflect the sentiments of hundreds of people who I flew with in a fleet, this was an abject betrayal of men and women who were working to serve the greater good.
CONCORD and the Empires' handling of this situation is a travesty, and I personally call for the resignation of Ren Karetta, the fool who ordered unsupported capsuleer forces first assembled at Sarum Prime into a deathtrap. The negligence and duplicity of these Empire representatives and their leaders must be held accounted for.
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Constantin Baracca
197
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
I suppose I am fortunate that I was meeting with associates in Matari space at the time. |
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
21
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
I saw the writing on the wall en rout. No sign of Navy support, no sign of Concord support, and a direct rout into Nullsec through a known staging system for multiple Nullsec alliances.
I made the call to halt at the gate before Null. Didn't even have to listen to the intel channels to know what was on the other side.
Had we been given ANY intel about the target, we could have formed up a taskforce to break through the interdiction bubbles while the rest of the fleet kept the Alliances busy. But we received no such intel, and therefore the entire op was a failure. |
Arista Shahni
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
57
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Those of us who reside in Empire space are well aware of the dangers of null. Those who are not aware are fully aware of the ghost stories.
Assuming that the Null blocs would let Empire pilots fly through 'for the sake of the pace of Empire Space' have rediculously underestimated just how much those alliances care about such things.
When you paint a living monster to reside in your bedroom, do not be surprised if it snatches your ankles when you come out of the bed in the dead of darkness. CONCORD's blanket only reaches so far.
I can feel the future all the way down to my bones - if they are even mine, anymore.
I will spend some time in reflection of those who have lost their lives in this harbinger of an incident. |
Constantin Baracca
197
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why didn't they use capitals to jump you directly to the target system? I'm a shoddy pilot at best and completely unversed in fleet mechanics, and even I would know better than to fly a fleet that massive through multiple zero-zone gates when Titans are at the beck and call of the empires.
Did the handlers not consider that? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
598
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
I say here again. We weren't betrayed by CONCORD.
We were "betrayed" by incompetence of capsuleer fleet commanders, who were bringing our fleets, who were unable to give clear commands, who were splitting fleets and getting small ships into gatecamps, while battleships were still travelling through busy high security space with turtle speeds.
When our battleships landed, everything was already over.
And we gathered in Sarum Prime way before the designated time. |
Iwan Terpalen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
37
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Posted - 2013.11.07 23:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:I saw the writing on the wall en rout. No sign of Navy support, no sign of Concord support, and a direct rout into Nullsec through a known staging system for multiple Nullsec alliances[...] Knowing when you're about to get massively screwed over is a rare skill, as is having the backbone to bow out when literally thousands of people are moving right along anyway.
Hang on to that. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2243
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Posted - 2013.11.07 23:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
I was already pre-disposed to ignore any call for help from Concord. Hearing what a charlie-fox this was has only reinforced my opinion. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3564
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
If this is how our governments and enforcers carry out military operations, then my ships shall never again serve any purpose for any empire.
It is a wonder why we are all not shambling on some Sansha-held planet by now. |
Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
30
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I was already pre-disposed to ignore any call for help from Concord. Hearing what a charlie-fox this was has only reinforced my opinion. For once, I'm glad I missed out. |
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Steffanie Saissore
Stormcrows
237
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Posted - 2013.11.08 01:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
I had been frustrated with the timing of the supposed offensive as other duties kept me from the pod, but hearing what happened , I am now glad I was unable to attend.
My thoughts go out those lost in this terrible debacle. |
Vikarion
State Trade Consortium
669
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Posted - 2013.11.08 01:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
I had other obligations - specifically, reading the latest issue of Stupid Ship Deaths Quarterly - to attend to. I suspect a special supplement to the last issue will be available soon. Looking forward to it. |
Constantin Baracca
199
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Posted - 2013.11.08 01:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would blame CONCORD, but from what I hear, every reason they would set this operation up to fail seems very much like a tinfoil hat conspiracy. If today proved anything for me, it's that I'm very lucky to have my job and not a naval combat role. I suppose that is why the Sansha, Serpentis, and their ilk still survive even though CONCORD and the major empires dislike them so much. Even a few thousand capsuleers can't appreciably make an offensive into defended space work. It simply becomes a shoal of fish. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
485
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Posted - 2013.11.08 02:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well, it was quite a nice trap, really. |
Alizabeth Vea
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
294
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Posted - 2013.11.08 02:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
If the Imperial Navy desires some advice on 0.0 operations, I would be happy to give it. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2392
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Posted - 2013.11.08 02:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alizabeth Vea wrote:If the Imperial Navy desires some advice on 0.0 operations, I would be happy to give it.
You know, I usually don't agree with you... but when I do...
... I need a drink. |
James Syagrius
The Philalethes Society
592
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Posted - 2013.11.08 02:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I was already pre-disposed to ignore any call for help from Concord. Hearing what a charlie-fox this was has only reinforced my opinion. On this at least we agree.
For me and mine, we ignored the request. |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
60
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Posted - 2013.11.08 03:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
You know. If it wasnt for the CONCORD anti cap ship tech that keeps our capital fleets out of highsec, I don't think the empires could keep us out. Not with incompetence like this at the helm.
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:If the Imperial Navy desires some advice on 0.0 operations, I would be happy to give it. You know, I usually don't agree with you... but when I do... ... I need a drink.
Pour one for me as well would you? Oh, and if I ever start saying I want to move back to empire, just remind me of this hairball op. |
Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
24
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Posted - 2013.11.08 03:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kel hound wrote:You know. If it wasnt for the CONCORD anti cap ship tech that keeps our capital fleets out of highsec, I don't think the empires could keep us out. Not with incompetence like this at the helm. It's clear they were operating out of their usual environment and territory, and it's a shame they weren't more prepared.
As a piece of friendly wisdom however, I might caution residents of null from believing they are incapable of making the same deadly mistake. |
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
300
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Posted - 2013.11.08 03:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oh, that's my favorite flavor of vod...! Er, wait. No, no nevermind. |
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2248
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Posted - 2013.11.08 06:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kel hound wrote:You know. If it wasnt for the CONCORD anti cap ship tech that keeps our capital fleets out of highsec, I don't think the empires could keep us out. Not with incompetence like this at the helm. Katrina Oniseki wrote:Alizabeth Vea wrote:If the Imperial Navy desires some advice on 0.0 operations, I would be happy to give it. You know, I usually don't agree with you... but when I do... ... I need a drink. Pour one for me as well would you? Oh, and if I ever start saying I want to move back to empire, just remind me of this hairball op.
This had almost nothing to do with the actual Empire fleets, from what I hear. If the Caldari Navy had really been involved they would simply have bridged Capsuleer fleets to the attack point, using Titans.
What was it? A cruel attempt to gather data? |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
489
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Posted - 2013.11.08 10:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Killing two birds with one stone, more like it? |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
234
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Posted - 2013.11.08 11:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Well, we're definitely not complaining. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1601
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Posted - 2013.11.08 16:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
It was seasoned low-sec and null-sec combat capsuleers versus (mostly) hi-sec capsuleers who have never seen combat before. What did you guys honestly expect? |
Steffanie Saissore
Stormcrows
238
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Posted - 2013.11.08 22:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
The fact that staging points were announced publicly and from what I hear, even though staging points were being changed at the last minute, those announcements were still rather public and easily made available to anyone who wanted it.
With some of the news leading up to this action, I had a bad feeling about the whole thing.
I now find myself in a strange situation...I have not had strong faith in CONCORD, but I still supported the concept of the organization. What with this recent action...it does have the feeling that CONCORD simply gathered up a bunch of sheep to send to the hungry wolves of the null-sec Alliances. In doing so, CONCORD has apparently not only burned any appearance of legitimacy, they have seemingly managed to cause quite a few capsuleers to even question their loyalties to their respective nations.
I wonder what the actual objective of this FUBAR of an operation really was, because from all the various sources I have seen, what the CTA claimed (CONCORD and the Empires leading the charge while calling upon the aid of loyalist pilots to help assist) and what happened (a vast number of loyalist pilots sent into the waiting jaws of four null-sec powers with little evidence of a CONCORD or Empire fleet present or among the casualties) are a far cry apart.
The sad thing is, with this one incident, CONCORD and the Empires may have just lost any and all hope of being able to call upon the assistance of those of us who remain in high sec. |
marlinspike von Crendraven
EVE University Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
they asked for our help, but i don't recall seeing any empire navy ships around let alone CONCORD ships; people i have liesten to seem to have the idea that it was a set-up but for what prupose is not clear. |
Constantin Baracca
203
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Steffanie Saissore wrote:The fact that staging points were announced publicly and from what I hear, even though staging points were being changed at the last minute, those announcements were still rather public and easily made available to anyone who wanted it.
With some of the news leading up to this action, I had a bad feeling about the whole thing.
I now find myself in a strange situation...I have not had strong faith in CONCORD, but I still supported the concept of the organization. What with this recent action...it does have the feeling that CONCORD simply gathered up a bunch of sheep to send to the hungry wolves of the null-sec Alliances. In doing so, CONCORD has apparently not only burned any appearance of legitimacy, they have seemingly managed to cause quite a few capsuleers to even question their loyalties to their respective nations.
I wonder what the actual objective of this FUBAR of an operation really was, because from all the various sources I have seen, what the CTA claimed (CONCORD and the Empires leading the charge while calling upon the aid of loyalist pilots to help assist) and what happened (a vast number of loyalist pilots sent into the waiting jaws of four null-sec powers with little evidence of a CONCORD or Empire fleet present or among the casualties) are a far cry apart.
The sad thing is, with this one incident, CONCORD and the Empires may have just lost any and all hope of being able to call upon the assistance of those of us who remain in high sec.
Perhaps it would have been better to ask the capsuleers to achieve some sort of objective and then let them decide how to handle it. CONCORD seems to be adept at defending its space, but they don't seem to know how to perform an attack. If they want to raise the security ratings of nearby space, or strike outside targets, it might be in their interest to leave it to professionals. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2258
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Concord doesn't care about you. Concord doesn't care about your faction.
The sooner you internalise this, the better for you. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
550
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence."
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Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
237
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Posted - 2013.11.08 23:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence."
Thank you! It's honestly getting tiresome to see everything turn into some massive conspiracy of cluster-shattering proportions. Honestly, if the powers that be were competent enough to actually pull off all these great schemes, they'd be completely welcome to rule all they see as far as I'm concerned. It be better than the alternative.
You know. The fluffies. They're out there. |
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