Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 138 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade Space Wolves Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 09:14:00 -
[811] - Quote
Bob Niac wrote:I am thinking this is going to be pushed back to a future patch. WAAAY too much negative feedback.
I have no idea where you got that impression. Rise pretty much told us we were full of it the last time he posted. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
683
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 09:40:00 -
[812] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:Bob Niac wrote:I am thinking this is going to be pushed back to a future patch. WAAAY too much negative feedback. I have no idea where you got that impression. Rise pretty much told us we were full of it the last time he posted.
JUst indicates that probably this was his idea and we not liking and pointing how dumb it is (with current numbers) on small scale PVP hurts his ego. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
47
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:01:00 -
[813] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
Here's the plan to improve the situation:
Rapid Launchers (both Light and Heavy) will be changed to have a much higher damage per second number, roughly on par with Heavy Assault Launchers and Torpedo Launchers respectively, but their ammo capacity will be reduced and their reload time will be increased increased (think Ancilliary Shield Boosters). Some specifics:
Rapid Light Missile Launcher rate of fire set to: Rapid Light Missile Launcher I ------------------------- 7.8s Rapid Light Missile Launcher II ------------------------- 6.24s Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher --- 6.24s Other meta types not shown
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire set to: Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ------------------------ 6.48s Rapid Heavy Missile launcher II ------------------------- 5.185s 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I ------------ 5.185s Other meta types not shown
Reload time for both groups set to 40 seconds.
T2 Rapid Light Launchers can carry roughly 18 charges T2 Rapid Heavy Launchers can carry roughly 23 charges
The concept of burst weapons is fun and interesting, but if that's the case, either reduce the reload or increase the deeps. If I have to wait the better part of a minute to reload, then I had better do some serious face tearing for the minute I could fire before I had to reload.
Or conversely, if I can't do some serious face tearing, than I sure as hey had better not have to wait a minute to reload. Go one way or the other. Serious burst DPS at long reload, or a more sustained burst at shorter reload, as opposed to relatively constant of current set up.
I think you'd have a better concept though if you aimed for similar DPS over a protracted battle, but applied in significantly different manners.
40 seconds of not firing for only torp/HAM DPS is kinda..... meh.
The Law is a point of View |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group Gatekeepers Universe
66
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:17:00 -
[814] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I commented earlier on the missile switching - I think it is a valid complaint and I'd like to find a work-around for it... CCP Fozzie said once that overheating is an awesome feature, though very underestimated in the current game design. So - if you want RML to be a burst-type weapon, why dont you make them overheat much better? Up to a point when it's the only reasonable modus operandi. The problem with switching ammo types will disappear itself.
And yes, people use FOF missiles to get rid of jamming guristas. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
685
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:17:00 -
[815] - Quote
Jsut to be clear.. it snot simply WIATING that is a pain. Is waiting after not having Killed an interceptors, AF, Faction frigate, badly fit t1 cruiser or even some t1 frigates
IF we had enough charges to get rid of 1 enemy reliably before waitign 40 seconds, then it would not be as bad. The penalty must be ONE or the other.. not both. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
685
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:19:00 -
[816] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I commented earlier on the missile switching - I think it is a valid complaint and I'd like to find a work-around for it... CCP Fozzie said once that overheating is an awesome feature, though very underestimated in the current game design. So - if you want RML to be a burst-type weapon, why dont you make them overheat much better? Up to a point when it's the only reasonable modus operandi. The problem with switching ammo types will disappear itself. And yes, people use FOF missiles to get rid of jamming guristas.
Incredbly interesting Idea.. Dotn knwo it it can be used as simply as that. But the concept on itself is far more interesting. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
58
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:44:00 -
[817] - Quote
Since missiles are the dumbest weapon system in EVE (especially T1 missiles, since they differ only in type of damage they do, while different turret ammo offers variations in range, capacitor use, tracking and damage), I believe they need to be nerfed in some way (not saying that missiles don't have weaknesses, of course, but that's a separate issue which can be solved in a variety of ways - someone suggested that they should take less heat damage per cycle and I like that idea).
Therefore I would set the reload time for all missile launchers to 20 seconds but increase their capacity by 25-50%. This wouldn't reduce the effective DPS much, but it would increase the importance of having the proper ammo loaded in PvP. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1796
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:46:00 -
[818] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote: Therefore I would set the reload time for all missile launchers to 20 seconds but increase their capacity by 25-50%. This wouldn't reduce the effective DPS much, but it would increase the importance of having the proper ammo loaded in PvP.
As soon as Projectile weapons lose the ability to switch damage types, then ok. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
685
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:55:00 -
[819] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Luscius Uta wrote: Therefore I would set the reload time for all missile launchers to 20 seconds but increase their capacity by 25-50%. This wouldn't reduce the effective DPS much, but it would increase the importance of having the proper ammo loaded in PvP.
As soon as Projectile weapons lose the ability to switch damage types, then ok.
Not defendign completely his concept. But projectiles do not have same capability
Projectiles can select on 3 damage types for t1 ammo and cannot select damage types on the T2 ammo . And since basically most of the combats that are more or less balanced you need to keep barrage loaded, the damage selection capability is minimal on projectiles except when youa re ganking an defenseless or vastly outpowered target. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kane Fenris
NWP
114
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 11:17:00 -
[820] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Luscius Uta wrote: Therefore I would set the reload time for all missile launchers to 20 seconds but increase their capacity by 25-50%. This wouldn't reduce the effective DPS much, but it would increase the importance of having the proper ammo loaded in PvP.
As soon as Projectile weapons lose the ability to switch damage types, then ok. Not defendign completely his concept. But projectiles do not have same capability Projectiles can select on 3 damage types for t1 ammo and cannot select damage types on the T2 ammo . And since basically most of the combats that are more or less balanced you need to keep barrage loaded, the damage selection capability is minimal on projectiles except when youa re ganking an defenseless or vastly outpowered target.
although it's off topic
thats why is like to see longer ranges on projectile guns and less bonus on barrage this would greatly improve the situation |
|
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
960
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 11:25:00 -
[821] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, so far I feel like I'm seeing 3 major areas of complaint, alongside a lot of people who think this will be a good change. Those areas are:
40s reload is boring and will be miserable to use please don't do it Switching ammo types (other damage types or to FOF(does anyone actually use fof?)) will be very difficult which is key for missile users The fundamental problem with this idea is that you are creating a weapon system that can both be massively OP and painfully useless, depending entirely on whether the launcher is reloading or not. You've tried to handwave this away as "consequences!". Now, I'm all for consequences, but these consequence are simply too brutal. The RML user has the consequences of being useless for 40 s, slowing his gang by having to pause on gates to reload and being stuck in a particular selection of damage types, while the frigate pilot has the consequences of getting nuked hilariously in double-quick time. Neither set of consequences makes for particularly engaging gameplay and will enrage both user and recipient.
A weapon system that can have both user and target raging in righteous fury is really bad mechanics. At least ECM only enrages the victim!
While I like the idea in principle, the 40 s reload is clearly far too long, aggravating not only for the RML user as he reloads but also for the frigate pilot trying to survive before/after the reload because the burst DPS is too high. I'd say cut the reload down to 25 s, maybe 30 s at the absolute most, and adjust burst DPS accordingly. It'll still be deeply aggravating to both sides, but it'll be a bit more tolerable. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
686
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 11:27:00 -
[822] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Alright, so far I feel like I'm seeing 3 major areas of complaint, alongside a lot of people who think this will be a good change. Those areas are:
40s reload is boring and will be miserable to use please don't do it Switching ammo types (other damage types or to FOF(does anyone actually use fof?)) will be very difficult which is key for missile users The fundamental problem with this idea is that you are creating a weapon system that can both be massively OP and painfully useless, depending entirely on whether the launcher is reloading or not. You've tried to handwave this away as "consequences!". Now, I'm all for consequences, but these consequence are simply too brutal. The RML user has the consequences of being useless for 40 s, slowing his gang by having to pause on gates to reloadand being stuck in a particular selection of damage types, while the frigate pilot has the consequences of getting nuked hilariously in double-quick time. Neither set of consequences makes for particularly engaging gameplay and will enrage both user and recipient. A weapon system that can have both user and target raging in righteous fury is really bad mechanics. While I like the idea in principle, the 40 s reload is clearly far too long, aggravating not only for the RML user as he reloads but also for the frigate pilot trying to survive before/after the reload because the burst DPS is too high. I'd say cut the reload down to 25 s, maybe 30 s at the absolute most, and adjust burst DPS accordingly. It'll still be deeply aggravating to both sides, but it'll be a bit more tolerable.
its even worse. Its a binary system.
Either you are in a frigate that has no chance to survive the caracal because it has under 12-14k ehp. Or you are in a frigate (faction or t2) that can simply IGNORE the caracal, because there is ZERO chance the caracal can kill you even if you are a horrible frigate pilot, just because his missiles will end at half the job done)
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
251
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 11:31:00 -
[823] - Quote
I wish that I hadn't already cancelled my subscription renewal a couple months ago so I could cancel it now and ragequit.
Between caving to gun user QQ about training time without matching missile training time, and this pants-on-head suggestion, I'm fairly certain that no one at CCP actually uses missiles.
We know that Rise doesn't. His weapon of choice was always ABCs, which conveniently don't have a missile variant.
Missiles are a third-class weapon system. Higher training time, fewer ship options (note the total lack of pirate missile ships, they're all drone ships that can use missiles too), ship bonuses that directly conflict with missile's advantage of switchable damage type by only bonusing one type.
Let's also not forget how unbelievably awful capital missiles are.
Why exactly are CCP trying so hard to push missiles into the gutter? |
Mike Whiite
EVE Corporation 31204210 The Wolfpack Nexus
237
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 11:32:00 -
[824] - Quote
Although I understand that with the lack of variables in Missile damage calculation, CCP comes at the point where using reload times as means for ballace.
That said, I don't understand this change one bit.
- CCP Rise says they want to make the choise between missile operating systems more intresting.
But if you look at it from scratch, this is what your choice will be, concering PvP. 1 train a weapon system that has a vluable nice with Rapid launcher, or just train Turrets, which are more valueble in almost any other senario.
The good thing is that due to a 40 seconds reload, you can skip a few support skills since it won++ be worth the training time, when you consider the time saved by faster launching will be neglectable with 40 seconds loading time.
- I think the major problem with missiles is that there is no middle road, it works or it doesn't, seem to work less or better.
- Ammo options are limited - Launcher options limited - Launcher affected mudules are limited.
In my humble opinion the current proposal is only aceptable if there would be an option for pilot to:
1) activate the rapid option, if not it wil just be a light missile launcher.
or
2) be able to load heavy/Cruise in the rapid launcher against a slower than normal launch rate.
This wil give people actualy a choice and won't condamn the Rapid launchers to a smll niche.
|
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
960
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 11:33:00 -
[825] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
its even worse. Its a binary system.
Either you are in a frigate that has no chance to survive the caracal because it has under 12-14k ehp. Or you are in a frigate (faction or t2) that can simply IGNORE the caracal, because there is ZERO chance the caracal can kill you even if you are a horrible frigate pilot, just because his missiles will end at half the job done)
Be careful that you don't oversimplify things. For a soloer, yes, this is very likely a problem. In small gang, with the appropriate tackle and/or additional DPS, I'd suggest that the frigate would die sooner - if the RLML user started shooting at the appropriate time. |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
313
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 11:59:00 -
[826] - Quote
Is this idea not dead yet? Half expected CCP to have a good ole 'bad idea's introduced just before expansion' burning out back and say some prayers to the norse gods by now.
Let me help you guys out:
http://satireknight.wikispaces.com/file/view/flamethrower.gif/280029248/flamethrower.gif Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
313
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:03:00 -
[827] - Quote
Just realised this does look a bit like a certain CCP CEO
http://i0.sinaimg.cn/gm/2012/0719/U4511P115DT20120719130651.jpg Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
418
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:25:00 -
[828] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:its even worse. Its a binary system.
Either you are in a frigate that has no chance to survive the caracal because it has under 12-14k ehp. Or you are in a frigate (faction or t2) that can simply IGNORE the caracal, because there is ZERO chance the caracal can kill you even if you are a horrible frigate pilot, just because his missiles will end at half the job done)
You are exagerating : the only frigates which will survive a load of RLML are the AB frigates (not all of them and you are twice as fast as them anyway), AF and interceptors. Even a firetail, with MWD, take 66% of the damages of light missiles ; and only the tankiest frigates have 10kehp. And finaly, a TP will give you the edge for the 12kehp frigates.
Additionaly, all active tanked frigates will be raped in no time.
For all the other cases, the additional time needed will be due to dps nerf and not to burst mode, and you won't take a lot more time to kill them anyway.
Fun fact : RLML are so powerful we are not even considering the drones the cruiser will launch to the poor frigate. That might be the first rebalance post where drones are not considered for EFT warrioring. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
148
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:28:00 -
[829] - Quote
There is another 'thing' that is OP and noone complains about,
Gallente sentry drones with small electron blaster tracking and 60km optimal range.
But guess what, we don't get ancillery drones with 5 minutes cooldown after deploying those..
FB_Addon_TelNo{height:15px !important;white-space: nowrap !important;background-color: #0ff0ff;} |
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
47
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:33:00 -
[830] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote: Fun fact : RLML are so powerful we are not even considering the drones the cruiser will launch to the poor frigate. That might be the first rebalance post where drones are not considered for EFT warrioring.
Well, the Caracal is the most used example here and it has exactly two (2) drones. |
|
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
47
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:34:00 -
[831] - Quote
elitatwo wrote: Gallente sentry drones with small electron blaster tracking
This is false.
|
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
418
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:48:00 -
[832] - Quote
Angelus Ryan wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote: Fun fact : RLML are so powerful we are not even considering the drones the cruiser will launch to the poor frigate. That might be the first rebalance post where drones are not considered for EFT warrioring.
Well, the Caracal is the most used example here and it has exactly two (2) drones. 2 warriorsII do 32dps, but for the things we are talking about, they do make a difference. RLML Caracal with CN missiles do 218dps ; the two warriors increase it by 15%, and won't be affected by target speed as much as missiles will be. On AB frigate, that will be 30% more dps. Frigates don't like drones. |
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
47
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:54:00 -
[833] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Angelus Ryan wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote: Fun fact : RLML are so powerful we are not even considering the drones the cruiser will launch to the poor frigate. That might be the first rebalance post where drones are not considered for EFT warrioring.
Well, the Caracal is the most used example here and it has exactly two (2) drones. 2 warriorsII do 32dps, but for the things we are talking about, they do make a difference. RLML Caracal with CN missiles do 218dps ; the two warriors increase it by 15%, and won't be affected by target speed as much as missiles will be. On AB frigate, that will be 30% more dps. Frigates don't like drones.
Against an unwebbed target, drones do far from their maximum DPS. If the Caracal webs the frig as well, the two drones are pretty much the least of the frig's problems. |
The Sinister
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:54:00 -
[834] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Kat Ayclism wrote:Holy crap that's terrible ******* idea Would love if you expanded a bit.
Dude now i am in my rapid lights caracal and i have EM charges fitted, I click on directional scanner and I see a Wolf on short scan coming to me! WTF i have to wait 40 seconds to switch to Explosive Ammo? WTF REALLY!
My caracal will be dead by the time i get the right ammo in... Sad days coming to Eve |
Kane Fenris
NWP
114
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 12:57:00 -
[835] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Frigates don't like drones.
most frigs do easily kill drones |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
418
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 13:08:00 -
[836] - Quote
Angelus Ryan wrote:Against an unwebbed target, drones do far from their maximum DPS. If the Caracal webs the frig as well, the two drones are pretty much the least of the frig's problems. In fact, WarriorII have close to the same speed than an AB frigate, so they will have the best shooting conditions.
Against MWD frigate though indeed that will be far from perfect, yet they are far from meaningless.
@Kane Fenris : easily, maybe, but remember there is also a cruiser shooting at you. A frigate can deal with a flight of drones, and even more easily with a flight of two drones, but she will have a very hard time dealing with anything more and most of the time drones+anything else = frigate warp off or die. See the Talos for example. |
Kane Fenris
NWP
114
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 13:16:00 -
[837] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Angelus Ryan wrote:Against an unwebbed target, drones do far from their maximum DPS. If the Caracal webs the frig as well, the two drones are pretty much the least of the frig's problems. In fact, WarriorII have close to the same speed than an AB frigate, so they will have the best shooting conditions. Against MWD frigate though indeed that will be far from perfect, yet they are far from meaningless. @Kane Fenris : easily, maybe, but remember there is also a cruiser shooting at you. A frigate can deal with a flight of drones, and even more easily with a flight of two drones, but she will have a very hard time dealing with anything more and most of the time drones+anything else = frigate warp off or die. See the Talos for example.
i know it just simply that those 2 drone wont make a diffrence if the frig can survive 1 clip from the RLML
|
Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 13:22:00 -
[838] - Quote
Super interesting point (with special thanks to Wolf Crendraven for pointing this out)
If you split them into 2 groups, and fire one until complete, then fire the others til complete, it basically works out exactly the same as it is now. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1017
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 13:24:00 -
[839] - Quote
Volstruis wrote:Super interesting point (with special thanks to Wolf Crendraven for pointing this out)
If you split them into 2 groups, and fire one until complete, then fire the others til complete, it basically works out exactly the same as it is now.
At which point you're better off fitting LMLs to your cruiser and just operating them normally. |
Volstruis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 13:28:00 -
[840] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Volstruis wrote:Super interesting point (with special thanks to Wolf Crendraven for pointing this out)
If you split them into 2 groups, and fire one until complete, then fire the others til complete, it basically works out exactly the same as it is now. At which point you're better off fitting LMLs to your cruiser and just operating them normally. Higher sustained DPS and room to fit a massive tank.
Yep. Well you'd have to check bonuses. I don't have the energy lol. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 138 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |