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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
7
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Posted - 2013.11.12 19:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I am looking for information on how others do this.
I have used 'the pot' system before, where everyone contributes to the pot, by putting there blue loot and salvage and things mined into a big pot. T3 stuff is made and then blue loot and t3 stuff are then sold, and everyone who was in on the pot gets a cut.
This has various advantages and disadvantages, but it works on a small scale.
I'm debaiting on changing this, but want to see how others handle it. I'm thinking of doing a 'corp buys stuff at -x jita/npc order prices' this way people can just do whatever and sell it to the corp/alliance.
Anyway as I said I wanted to see what other WH corps/alliances do to work there sites and pay there members while still having isk for fuel and the like. |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
80
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Posted - 2013.11.12 20:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
The corp buying everything "x beneath Jita" is a good system. If you know what you are doing, you can make the corp itself make money and the members get their pay up front instantly.
Keep in mind, you will need a huge buffer to float large amounts of sleeper loot. Make sure you have enough buffer to keep up with getting the t3s to market. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO!(Terms and conditions apply.) |
7enn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2013.11.12 21:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
the pot system sux. it comes down to how to split the pot. the bigger it is the more unfair it is. every system you devise is a challenge that folks will learn to beat.
if you pay out the pot based on participation folks will log on to get their point for the period then vanish. nothing is equal. some days you'll run 5 sites fully escalated and other days there will be one. a 5 site day isn't equal to a one site day. daily participation schemes just blow.
so how to pay it out????
split evenly whatever is brought in when it is brought in amongst those that brought it in. just make a spreadsheet of what comes in, who brought it in and what it's worth. pay out as soon as possible.
not tax, no shares, no points - none of the crap that breeds inequality. just pay the isk out as it comes in.
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Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
80
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Posted - 2013.11.12 21:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
7enn wrote: not tax, no shares, no points - none of the crap that breeds inequality. just pay the isk out as it comes in.
You can do those fairly, especially taxation (everyone pays X percent). We keep our tax low--5%, and its basically used for emergencies, to cover payout "oopses," occasionally replace ships, or (mostly) buy fuel for the newbie pos/buy things for corp wide use. Some wormhole corps charge upwards of 25% on loot or more, which is ridiculous.
Eventually, we'll probably drop our tax rate altogether, though, especially if we create an industrial backbone for corp (which we are considering), and let the industrialists buy all sleeper loot x% beneath jita and then sell T3s, putting money into corp wallet.
There's a lot of different ways to go about it--but the Pot system is ridiculously stupid at larger levels. I've never even done it, even when I was part of a 5 man corp back in the day. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO!(Terms and conditions apply.) |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2402
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Posted - 2013.11.12 21:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
-run op -put loot in can -name can with names of participants -take can to jita (tags to hirtmon) -sell loot -pay participants evenly
if you want to do stupid industry crap with it, buy it AT jita price, dont screw your corp mates. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
80
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Posted - 2013.11.12 21:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:-run op -put loot in can -name can with names of participants -take can to jita (tags to hirtmon) -sell loot -pay participants evenly
if you want to do stupid industry crap with it, buy it AT jita price, dont screw your corp mates.
Yeah, better than mine. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO!(Terms and conditions apply.) |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
7
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Posted - 2013.11.12 21:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:-run op -put loot in can -name can with names of participants -take can to jita (tags to hirtmon) -sell loot -pay participants evenly
if you want to do stupid industry crap with it, buy it AT jita price, dont screw your corp mates.
though its not screwing if I buy loot or whatever at -x% jit prices, why? I still have to scan and exit and spend time hauling and selling the crap. So my tiem is valuable, if they don't want to lose the 5% or whatever they can waste there own time finding exits and hauling stuff. After running 30+ pos' in 0.0 alone, hauling moon goo and fuel all day everyday, yea.. screw that, if I have to fuel the pos' and haul the stuff i'm gonna tax for my time.
But that's beside the point. Wondering what other ways people handle payouts. |
Maxisabe
Boris Johnson's Love Children
0
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Posted - 2013.11.13 01:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
The way we do it works pretty well
Run op and take note of who is in the op Loot/Salvage and note estimated price Corp is marked down to receive 10% from all ops Log op/price in a spreadsheet
At a later date sell the loot in Jita (or that other system for blue loot), pay out members for ops started with the oldest first Corp gets remainder
Out of the corp funds we tend to reward certain members, do ship replacement, etc... Another benefit is that your members know what payout they can expect to receive
Weekly payouts seem to work the best if you cant float the isk, any longer and members will start to wonder when they will get paid
DaReaper wrote:though its not screwing if I buy loot or whatever at -x% jit prices, why? I still have to scan and exit and spend time hauling and selling the crap. So my tiem is valuable, if they don't want to lose the 5% or whatever they can waste there own time finding exits and hauling stuff.
That sounds very hostile to your corp members, if your running the industry then Jita prices are fair and running the POS's is your responsibility. If the corp is running the POS's that setup might be a little different but its a separate issue from loot price where I would consider fair being Jita prices. |
Sushi Nardieu
Encapsulated.
176
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Posted - 2013.11.13 04:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Don't waste time PVEing with large groups. You can do other things while that is happening.
Large groups consist of incompetents and lazies. The Guns of Knowledge-á |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2402
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Posted - 2013.11.13 04:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Jack Miton wrote:-run op -put loot in can -name can with names of participants -take can to jita (tags to hirtmon) -sell loot -pay participants evenly
if you want to do stupid industry crap with it, buy it AT jita price, dont screw your corp mates. though its not screwing if I buy loot or whatever at -x% jit prices, why? I still have to scan and exit and spend time hauling and selling the crap. So my tiem is valuable, if they don't want to lose the 5% or whatever they can waste there own time finding exits and hauling stuff. After running 30+ pos' in 0.0 alone, hauling moon goo and fuel all day everyday, yea.. screw that, if I have to fuel the pos' and haul the stuff i'm gonna tax for my time. But that's beside the point. Wondering what other ways people handle payouts. sure, i missed the 'take out corp tax' step. that isnt the same as buying it below market for your own industrial needs. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
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bubble trout
Sky Fighters
103
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Posted - 2013.11.13 04:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
DaReaper wrote: though its not screwing if I buy loot or whatever at -x% jit prices, why? I still have to scan and exit and spend time hauling and selling the crap. So my tiem is valuable, if they don't want to lose the 5% or whatever they can waste there own time finding exits and hauling stuff.
Congrats, you have figured out why most people don't want to be a ceo.
I buy gas off my corpmates to react and make a bit of isk to fuel my pos. I buy at best jita buy. Why? Well my corpies would just sell to the buy orders anyway, and this way I don't have to set up buy orders and haul it in myself. Win/win.
Honestly tags they can handle theirself, if you want the salvage just buy at jita prices. If you aren't doing that honestly you are taking advantage of your corpmates, GL with that. Someone will get buthurt about it and then someday all your shinies will be missing, or there will be dreads on the tower etc.
A good corp, at least in my opinion, should be about what is best for the members taken as a whole, not the leadership or the corp itself.
p.s. how is scanning for exits work? We live in w-space, bob blesses us with exits or pew as he see fit, take the hint and use what is given to you. Reward your scouts and you will see many more exits than you do now. You should always have people scanning. |
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters
225
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Posted - 2013.11.13 05:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:So I am looking for information on how others do this.
I have used 'the pot' system before, where everyone contributes to the pot, by putting there blue loot and salvage and things mined into a big pot. T3 stuff is made and then blue loot and t3 stuff are then sold, and everyone who was in on the pot gets a cut.
This has various advantages and disadvantages, but it works on a small scale.
I'm debaiting on changing this, but want to see how others handle it. I'm thinking of doing a 'corp buys stuff at -x jita/npc order prices' this way people can just do whatever and sell it to the corp/alliance.
Anyway as I said I wanted to see what other WH corps/alliances do to work there sites and pay there members while still having isk for fuel and the like.
Bubble and Jack have already covered the majority of the points here.
Things purchased by others in corp are generally around best Jita buy as its cheaper than buying them in Jita.
In regards to paying for POS fuel - our guys either pay a monthly rent to corp after (after their 1st month of being with us if they live in a corp run and fuelled tower) or they bring in their own tower which they run.
Hope this helps,
Sith Sky Fighters are now accepting WH Space Merc Contracts https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3737774#post3737774
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Aakkonen
Prometheus Expeditions
14
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Posted - 2013.11.13 06:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
As ceo of my corp, we do it like this: ppl run ops -> all salvage goes into 1 container, when it reaches certain treshold or certain time has passed director or ceo takes it into jita for sale then I minus the 2-3 weeks pos fuel from it and rest is equally shared among active members. (this works best in small groups)
Aakkonen
Bad Jokes since -09.... Fly Safe! o7 |
Bane Nucleus
Primary Colors
475
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 07:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
My system goes as follows:
1) run op 2) loot goes to Bane 3) Bane sells and promises payouts 4) corp is just Bane because he never paid anyone 5) Bane is lonely 6) Free Agent |
Winthorp
Sky Fighters
230
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 10:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:My system goes as follows: 1) run op 2) loot goes to Bane 3) Bane sells and promises payouts 4) corp is just Bane because he never paid anyone 5) Bane is lonely 6)
Poor Bane, you need to learn to mix more colors. |
Pancake King
Unreal Realities
22
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Posted - 2013.11.13 10:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:-run op -put loot in can -name can with names of participants -take can to jita (tags to hirtmon) -sell loot -pay participants evenly
if you want to do stupid industry crap with it, buy it AT jita price, dont screw your corp mates.
That's what we do, works well. We throw on a 10% corp tax for taking it out, if people want to take out their own loot (they never do) they don't get taxed.
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HerrBert
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
144
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:My system goes as follows: 1) run op 2) loot goes to Bane 3) Bane sells and promises payouts 4) corp is just Bane because he never paid anyone 5) Bane is lonely 6)
you can always talk to me My mind does not reflect my corp ... it just shows you what they care about...
Super serious Wormhole Guy http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism |
Caius Beriat
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
13
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Posted - 2013.11.13 12:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Step 1 - Run site. Step 2 - Salvage site. Step 3 - Repeat as required. Step 4 - Take billions worth of loot in an Orca to Jita via low sec. Step 5 - Die to black ops gate camp. Step 6 - Be Jay Joringer. |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
60
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
We are very simple minded.... Sleeper loot and salvage only seems to net out 15-20% of estimated value, unless of course you spend days doing market pvp on each little item.
We take the estimated value of the loot/salvage, subtract out 20%, and split the balance with the participants. Whomever wants to be the hauler/seller pays out everyone and then it is up to them to haul out and sell. Most don't seem to want to that job so it usually falls to me or another member. Simple, effective, and everyone seems reasonably happy with it. "Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Zuria Rakel
Collapsed Out Shadow Cartel
7
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Posted - 2013.11.15 16:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
We have a google spreadsheet, first off, so everyone can see exactly what is owed to whom.
Besodes that? You get paid out per every site you do, based on how many people showed up. Every one just gets a single even share of each site they were present for. Less 10% for corp tax. Loot is just sold in Jita. The 10% pays for fuel, basic supplies, sone corp ships, and a partial SRP.
We havn't had a single dispute or disagreement over loot since I've been with them (well over a year now).
Whatever system you choose, the points I would focus on are:
Transparency; make sure everyone knows where the isk is going, why there, and how much. (Google spreadsheets are Awsome) Consistency; pick a systen and stick with it. Efficiency and enrichment; if everyone is making boatloads of isk, its unlikely anyone is going to rock the boat or create drama. |
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Aakkonen
Prometheus Expeditions
17
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Posted - 2013.11.15 20:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zuria Rakel wrote:We have a google spreadsheet, first off, so everyone can see exactly what is owed to whom.
Besodes that? You get paid out per every site you do, based on how many people showed up. Every one just gets a single even share of each site they were present for. Less 10% for corp tax. Loot is just sold in Jita. The 10% pays for fuel, basic supplies, sone corp ships, and a partial SRP.
We havn't had a single dispute or disagreement over loot since I've been with them (well over a year now).
Whatever system you choose, the points I would focus on are:
Transparency; make sure everyone knows where the isk is going, why there, and how much. (Google spreadsheets are Awsome) Consistency; pick a systen and stick with it. Efficiency and enrichment; if everyone is making boatloads of isk, its unlikely anyone is going to rock the boat or create drama.
I'm not so fond of spread sheets but that sounds working plan, so I would like to try it :D Bad Jokes since -09.... Fly Safe! o7 |
WInter Borne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
94
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 21:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
The way Surely You're Joking set theirs up is as follows:
Each pilot that completed a sleeper site received 1 share. At the end of the night the pilots were listed along with the total number of shares (how many sites they ran that night). The loot for that night was counted and then divided by the total number of shares. This gives you the isk per share, which you then multiply by the number of shares each pilot had for that night and that was their payout.
Example:
John = 5 shares Bobby = 6 shares Fred = 3 shares George = 6 shares
Total number of shares = 20 Total loot for the night = 5,000,000,000 Alliance/Corp tax (10%) = 500,000,000 Loot to be split = 4,500,000,000 Isk per share = 225,000,000
Pilot Payout: John = 5 x 225m = 1,125,000,000 Bobby = 6 x 225m = 1,350,000,000 Fred = 3 x 225m = 675,000,000 George = 6 x 225m = 1,350,000,000 Total = 4.5 bil |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
22
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Posted - 2013.11.16 14:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
We operate the same system Winter does/did + spreadsheet as per OPS' posts.
The 10% tax should cover your fuel costs, along with consumables for the corp (ammo, paste etc.) it also allows for the variance in est values and actual market buys.
In the end your corp won't get 10%, and never will, but it means corpies always get what they're expecting = happy corpies.
Only issue is POS fuel costs are shared unequally, those ratting harder pay a larger share but then they're getting greater value in their wallet for their contribution so it kinda balances.
We polled our crew recently on this to see if they wanted to switch, but votes came in overwhelming in favour of the current system. |
Nakamiro
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.11.18 11:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
The C5 corp my alts are in used to have a nice Google spreadsheet that imported Jita prices. Essentially we paid per pilot, per site at Jita -10% tax.
We switched to a custom web application which has a much nicer user interface (but functions the same way behind the scenes). We have recently switched to a 20% tax rate to build a healthier corp wallet.
While our tax rates might seem high to some, we are a very small corp founded by a few friends. We are really only 8 or 10 active players who have now been together for a couple of years and our investment in the corp wallet is an investment in ourselves. No one pays for ammo, skillbooks, or PVE ships (including capitals). They are all corp owned and supplied.
Essentially our pilots are paying a 20% tax rate for access to C5 escalations and free capitals to fly with impunity.
PI income and operations in the chain are taxed at 10% if the player wants the corp to buy the loot. If they want to haul it themselves, its their own business. |
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