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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Mascha Tzash
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
103
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Posted - 2013.11.25 22:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Rekkr Nordgard wrote:CCP Dolan wrote:Heyo guys, I'm actually working on them as we speak. Good to hear. I know that you can't give us a firm date, but can you tell us what kind of timeframe do you foresee them being released? Are we talking days, weeks, months here? I'm hoping to have them all out during next week. In the meantime, hopefully nothing catches fire and forces me to put on my fire fighter costume (which is quite fetching, I might add).
Might I add a humble wish for a logi SoE ship that is fireguard themed (bluelight and siren included)? I would name it "Dolans Costume". |
SeenButNotHeard
Doing The Business
83
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Posted - 2013.12.03 00:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
My last post was a little harsh, for which I apologise.
That said - I think we should rename "The Minutes" to "The Months" |
Felicity Love
Nighthawk Exploration
1024
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Posted - 2013.12.03 00:32:00 -
[63] - Quote
Time to start broadcasting CSM-CCP summit meetings on Twitch. LIVE, too... not edited or delayed.
I'm sure everyone will conduct themselves maturely, and if there's any NDA issues, well, at least we'll all hear about it at the same time, from the same source.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Xurr
Angelic Insurrection Corp
38
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Posted - 2013.12.03 00:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
So I'm guessing today's server down time set the minutes back another couple of months? Right?
Anyhow, releasing the minutes the same year as the summit would be nice. |
Care Bear Flair
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.12.03 01:03:00 -
[65] - Quote
Xurr wrote:So I'm guessing today's server down time set the minutes back another couple of months? Right?
Anyhow, releasing the minutes the same year as the summit would be nice.
Well, apparently the minutes were delayed by Somergate. Then they were delayed by all the work they've put in on creating the survey to gather feedback on Somergate. Now the survey on Somergate has been delayed because they just have to get those minutes out.
But, don't worry... People are being poked about it apparently! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3942386#post3942386 |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
95
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Posted - 2013.12.04 19:42:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bump
Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2653
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
I foresee a new EVE meme:
The Summer Minutes: it takes minutes to speak them and until next year to release them. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Jove Death
The Jovian Navy
243
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I foresee a new EVE meme:
The Summer Minutes: it takes minutes to speak them and until next year to release them.
No thats getting an answer for a petition
Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2653
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Posted - 2013.12.04 23:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jove Death wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I foresee a new EVE meme:
The Summer Minutes: it takes minutes to speak them and until next year to release them. No thats getting an answer for a petition
I was to post a witty answer, but I can't as I petitioned it just last week. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
348
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Posted - 2013.12.04 23:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
I'm not really a fan of jumping on bandwagons but I feel this is important enough of an issue to at least chime in here. The purpose of the CSM minutes may not be to preview upcoming features but nevertheless, they do. I find the assertion that they are not meant to serve in this capacity, and instead only as a CSM performance evaluation tool, a little disingenuous. Every time the minutes have been released, sure, we're able to see which CSM members supported/opposed which idea, but that doesn't negate the fact that the ideas are present and expressed. It also doesn't address that the minutes allow players to ascertain which devs support/oppose which ideas and why. They contain so much more than performance evaluations. In the past, I've printed hard copies of the CSM minutes, often re-reading them 4-5x and highlighting noteworthy comments and passages. I care enough to do this. But I don't recall ever doing so to evaluate the performance of the CSM. I did it to get a sense of where the game may be headed because it is possible to do so by evaluating questions posed/responses given. Learning which CSM members are dead weight was inconsequential.
If the minutes have become less useful because of CCP's new long-term vision implementation strategy, and now everything is nda'ed, then doesn't it also stand to reason that the usefulness of the CSM itself is also diminished? What if the next batch of players elected unanimously oppose that vision? "There's no turning back" is a neat catchphrase, but if the CSM are just there to validate a plan already laid out, which cannot be changed, and is already in the process of execution, as opposed to proposing actual ideas and effecting change on behalf of the community, then something has been lost.
But no matter what the case may be, I'm going on record saying that I enjoy reading the CSM minutes, I've noticed that they are absent, that eliminating them will not increase transparency, and hopefully they will be released prior to the next summit.
YK "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." |
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Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA Apex.
93
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Posted - 2013.12.04 23:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
It would also be useful because CSM's could be held accountable for doing a crappy job (if the Minutes were to indicate that)
I mean -- what else do we have to go by? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4511
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:43:00 -
[72] - Quote
Anyone want to place bets if the winter summit starts before the summer minutes are released? . |
Trillian Stargazer
Origin. Black Legion.
11
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Posted - 2013.12.07 17:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
I am sure he "is almost done" and "they will be posted soon(tm). Seriously this is unacceptable. There is no reason these minutes havent been released yet. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6708
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Posted - 2013.12.07 17:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Anyone want to place bets if the winter summit starts before the summer minutes are released? Anyone want to place bets on whether the summer minutes will ever get released? Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2684
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Posted - 2013.12.07 17:32:00 -
[75] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Anyone want to place bets if the winter summit starts before the summer minutes are released?
I would suggest that they talk about the summer minutes at the winter summit. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
331
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Posted - 2013.12.07 17:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Anyone want to place bets on whether the summer minutes will ever get released?
Sure. They'll come out in time for me to read them while playing the next Duke Nukem installment.
I am the Walrus. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12777
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:04:00 -
[77] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Anyone want to place bets if the winter summit starts before the summer minutes are released?
1 bill that they wont
1 Kings 12:11
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1889
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:11:00 -
[78] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Anyone want to place bets if the winter summit starts before the summer minutes are released? 1 bill that they wont reported to ia, plex for benny |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1889
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:12:00 -
[79] - Quote
No, not really. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12777
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:17:00 -
[80] - Quote
****, there goes an easy bill
1 Kings 12:11
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Xurr
Angelic Insurrection Corp
38
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
So how many months set back will we see from shooting dolan? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
637
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Posted - 2013.12.07 23:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Freelancer117 wrote:How can CCP still approve these minutes when it has literally been MONTHS I have video recordings of all of the sessions, and I have a pretty excellent memory.
Down with democracy and accountability then! Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2772
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Posted - 2013.12.17 14:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
Well, it is very likely that the minutes will not be released until 2014 -literally.
Ripard Teg and other CSM aren't thrilled about it.
No matter what you think about the CSM, we have this company called CCP which is essentially putting to waste A LOT of work by highly commited players representing "us", a work which they -IMO- shouldn't be doing when there's professionals (stenographers, transcripters, you name it) who could and should do it.
I'm not happy with it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Maxxor Brutor
Imperial Collective
13
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Posted - 2013.12.17 14:52:00 -
[84] - Quote
Guess Dolan took a paintball too many...
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Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views Accidentally The Whole Thing
19
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:33:00 -
[85] - Quote
Dear CCP.
Could we please have someone who cares more for and has more respect for the CSM project actually put in charge of dealing with the CSM at this point? This is a complete disgrace. The only reason they are not done at this point, is because Dolan has procrastinated for months, and now he's likely gone on vacation till the new year? I certainly hope this comes up at his next job review. A good employee not only gets the stuff he enjoys doing done, but also puts his head down and does the crap work on time/target as well. I'm sure tons of coders at CCP don't want to dig into the old crappy code and fix it either, but it has to be done and not put off forever.
Why should I bother voting next time if Dolan and Dolan's boss/supervisor doesn't give a crap?
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Implying Implications
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
405
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
Should have shot Dolan after he got the job done, not before. Signed, Implying |
Prince Kobol
1210
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:04:00 -
[87] - Quote
Draekas Darkwater wrote:Dear CCP.
Could we please have someone who cares more for and has more respect for the CSM project actually put in charge of dealing with the CSM at this point? This is a complete disgrace. The only reason they are not done at this point, is because Dolan has procrastinated for months, and now he's likely gone on vacation till the new year? I certainly hope this comes up at his next job review. A good employee not only gets the stuff he enjoys doing done, but also puts his head down and does the crap work on time/target as well. I'm sure tons of coders at CCP don't want to dig into the old crappy code and fix it either, but it has to be done and not put off forever.
Why should I bother voting next time if Dolan and Dolan's boss/supervisor doesn't give a crap?
These type of whining self righteous posts are getting more and more common these days and it is pathetic.
Get a grip ffs.
Maybe CCP Dolan hasn't completed the minutes because as an employee he does what he is told?
Maybe because who ever he reports to would prefer he spends his time working on Eve then pissing his time away on a document that means nothing and effects nothing?
If its a choice to have CCP Dolan or any other Dev work on Eve or mess about with some document that effects nothing then I know what I would prefer them to spend their time on.
Whilst a few people might like to have the CSM minutes (god knows why) in the grand schemes of things it would be a very low priority.
These type of whining self righteous posts are getting more and more common these days and it is pathetic.
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Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views Accidentally The Whole Thing
20
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
Dear CSM8.
First off, alot of us, myself included really appreciate the time and effort that you all put forth into working on our behalf on the CSM. I've had a lot of patience here, waiting for the minutes to come out, that you guys put 10s of hours into putting together, without pay, on your own time. I read blogs and listen to podcasts and even Ali's space hangouts and have heard many of you comment on the inevitable, "where are the minutes" questions that constantly come up.
So that said...
Where is the outrage about the minutes from you guys here? Its disgraceful that its taken this long, and at most all I ever hear is complete silence or a mild, "Well, its in CCP's hands now, whelp". I can understand giving CCP a few weeks or a month max after they were all submitted as a grace period. But FFS isn't it about time to get off your hands and start raising a serious stink about this crap? When is enough, enough?
Isn't it time to start getting loud and public in a joint public statement berating the entire process? Isn't it time to push such a statement on every EVE news/blog/podcast site there is, and maybe any general MMO news site that'll pick it up? Because sitting on your hands and privately poking Dolan about it obviously is not freaking working.
I understand that you have to work with CCP for the rest of your term and all, but you MUST see how bad this looks upon yourselves and the entire CSM process as a whole at this point. It looks to me at least that CCP Dolan couldn't be bothered at this point, and since he's not being forced to do it, by extension his bosses don't give a crap either. Because all conversation between CCP and the CSM is under NDA, the only portal that we as CSM voters have into that dialogue are the minutes themselves. I don't care about trying to get some super secret revelations out of the damn things, I want and need some clear view as to how the CSM reps I voted for are actually representing me.
I've voted in every CSM election so far, and am was glad that each CSM election seemed to move the process forward, even if in small steps. I was happy that it appeared to be moving the same way this time around as well. At this point in the term, however, its looking more like 1 step forward, 2 steps back. If you all don't stand up and defend the process, then why should anyone give a **** about the process going forward? If Dolan isn't up to the task of handling the CSM, including all aspects of it, then should you not be pushing CCP management to choose someone more qualified/willing to do it?
Hell, the next election is coming up in the not to distant future at this point. Will we have the minutes by then? CCP doesn't seem to care, do any of you care strongly enough to start making a real stink about this? If the entire minutes process is flawed and needs to be adjusted, then fine, do that for next time. But this wasn't CCP's first walk in the park with the minutes process this past summer. They knew what was going to be involved, and didn't change it ahead of time. They made you spend 10s of hours working for free putting the minutes together, and now clearly Dolan is just like "didn't want those minutes anyway, SUCKERS!".
Until this point I've been more pissed off at CCP than the CSM regarding this, but that's switching now with each passing week. A big part of your job as I see it, is to stand up for the player base when something/someone clearly isn't working as intended. This is a pretty clear cut example of that.
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Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views Accidentally The Whole Thing
20
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:50:00 -
[89] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:
These type of whining self righteous posts are getting more and more common these days and it is pathetic.
Get a grip ffs.
Maybe CCP Dolan hasn't completed the minutes because as an employee he does what he is told?
Maybe because who ever he reports to would prefer he spends his time working on Eve then pissing his time away on a document that means nothing and effects nothing?
If its a choice to have CCP Dolan or any other Dev work on Eve or mess about with some document that effects nothing then I know what I would prefer them to spend their time on.
Whilst a few people might like to have the CSM minutes (god knows why) in the grand schemes of things it would be a very low priority.
These type of whining self righteous posts are getting more and more common these days and it is pathetic.
If that's what Dolan's boss's have told him to do, then its even more disgraceful.
If CCP doesn't want the CSM, then fine, make that call and just end it. CCP themselves made up the whole CSM process, including publishing the minutes from the summits. Its not a new thing. They knew the process going into the summer summit, and that the minutes would be required work afterwards. They've made this group of unpaid volunteers 10s of hours of their own time putting them together and submitting them for review, only just to toss them out the window?
If you don't find the CSM valuable and think CCP should just get rid of them, then fine, that's your opinion.
I do think they are valuable, and the minutes are the only real window into CCP/CSM communications that are otherwise completely NDAd and unavailable for dissection. For those who care about the CSM, they are a valuable way to see if the CSM rep you voted for is actually representing your views how you thought or they said they would during the election process. Dolan is just a community rep, not a coder/artist/designer/other dev. He was specifically put in charge of the CSM, including all the work that goes with that (like the minutes). For that reason, Dolan needs to get these done and/or his boss needs to lock him in a room for a week and get them done. Enough screwing around already. |
Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views Accidentally The Whole Thing
20
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:52:00 -
[90] - Quote
Implying Implications wrote:Should have shot Dolan after he got the job done, not before.
Or doubled the amount if they weren't published before the stream went live. :P |
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